View Full Version : France paralysed by 100,000 bikers!
wyrdness
20-06-11, 05:22 PM
Almost 100,000 bikers have brought France to a standstill, by protesting about new laws that will ban filtering and require them to wear yellow hi-viz vests.
http://ukfrancebikers.com/2011/06/18/france-completely-paralysed-by-almost-100000-bikers/
I'd hope that we would do the same if they try to introduce anything like that here.
Specialone
20-06-11, 05:34 PM
Crazy French barstewards ;)
Good on them though !!
xXBADGERXx
20-06-11, 05:47 PM
Nice to see some have the balls to stand up and be counted , the problem with our country is that a few will rally forth , with lots of shouting behind them .... which then turns to muttering and shuffling of feet and then buggering off back home for a cup of tea and a quiet and subdued life , leaving the other poor sods who have stuck their neck on the line to cop it .
Nobbylad
20-06-11, 05:55 PM
Vive la France!
I'd hope that we would do the same if they try to introduce anything like that here.
no we would do what we always do. bend over and take it without KY.
one thing i have always admired about the French is their passion on affairs. we on the other hand have a 'oohhh well if it has to be' attitude.
dizzyblonde
20-06-11, 06:04 PM
15,000 in Paris alone. My mate went out with 2500 yesterday. They took over the motorway in a way only us lot could dream about. When the French protest.....they protest properly.
Bearing in mind there has been protests along similar veins here recently, as there are plans in the pipeline to bring us into line with the Bsh1t. Orose is a MAG representative, and has been filling me in, and SMudge with his tin hat joined in the protest in Leeds recently.
My mate was at the front of the ride, went up the slip road, and has never seen so many bikers all at once ever, she couldn't see the horizon for them 8)
Its not just hi viz vests, its all about standardization, no more Leo Vince pipes and for the French no more mars bar size reg plates
Now thats how you organise a protest...
Its not just hi viz vests, its all about standardization, no more Leo Vince pipes and for the French no more mars bar size reg plates
Err... what she said. If anyone is interested in getting out and standing up for their rights, the National MAG demo (which will be focusing on the French and Irish plans to bring in compulsory Dayglo, and with full-length sleeves in the Irish case) will be held in Birmingham on the 2nd of July. If anyone wants to head down from further afield, it coincides with the Heart of England rally (1st - 3rd July).
Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to get down myself - I'll be leafleting at a local dealership instead, while pretending to get people interested in joining my IAM group.
Red Herring
20-06-11, 06:33 PM
.... for the French no more mars bar size reg plates
What, you mean like this......The sticker above is easier to read, and explains a lot...!
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/Broomewood/Liege2011_118.jpg
dizzyblonde
20-06-11, 06:40 PM
Aye, that be the one!
Thing is, my mates a brit and has been happily living in France for years, and theres things she likes about the French bike system, and some she don't.
One thing she doesn't agree on is the lack of MOT system over there. The bigger cc riders have exceptionally well looked after machines, in which look ver roadworthy, but all those moped riders that shouldn't be riding such dangerous peds are making it difficult for the rest of them.
Just been on the phone funnily enough. She spent her riding day holding up La Rochelle for 2 and a half hours, it was crawling....literally!
DJFridge
20-06-11, 06:41 PM
That's a lot of people. As several have already said, when the French protest, the French PROTEST!
Seriously, not being very up on potential future regs, can anyone explain what the plan is? I have no objection to a bit of compulsory dayglo (flashes or stripes on jackets for example) because it makes me easier to see, but I'm not sure I'd want to be legally forced into an armoured dayglo jumpsuit!
DJFridge
20-06-11, 06:47 PM
Aye, that be the one!
Thing is, my mates a brit and has been happily living in France for years, and theres things she likes about the French bike system, and some she don't.
One thing she doesn't agree on is the lack of MOT system over there. The bigger cc riders have exceptionally well looked after machines, in which look ver roadworthy, but all those moped riders that shouldn't be riding such dangerous peds are making it difficult for the rest of them.
Dizzy, we go on holiday to the south of France most years (not on the bikes yet but Route Napoleon keeps calling) and the scooter and moped riders down there particularly are sodding terrifying. They seem to believe that balancing a helmet on the top of your head (to not mess with your hair I presume) counts as wearing it, no protective clothing and no sense. Having nearly broken my ankle coming off, I still physically wince when I see then in flipflops and shorts. I'm actually shaking now just thinking about it.
dizzyblonde
20-06-11, 06:47 PM
That's a lot of people. As several have already said, when the French protest, the French PROTEST!
Seriously, not being very up on potential future regs, can anyone explain what the plan is? I have no objection to a bit of compulsory dayglo (flashes or stripes on jackets for example) because it makes me easier to see, but I'm not sure I'd want to be legally forced into an armoured dayglo jumpsuit!
Well in france they're saying you must wear a dayglo hi viz, couldn't care less if you were nakid!
Here, its not just about hi viz vests, but they're trying to bring in a ban on after market exhausts and all sorts.
I suppose I better get Orose to hilight the facts correctly for us.
454697819
20-06-11, 06:58 PM
would explain what I saw in France a couple of weeks ago..
few hundred bikers coming down the coast revving and beeping going nuts..
explains it all
That's a lot of people. As several have already said, when the French protest, the French PROTEST!
Seriously, not being very up on potential future regs, can anyone explain what the plan is? I have no objection to a bit of compulsory dayglo (flashes or stripes on jackets for example) because it makes me easier to see, but I'm not sure I'd want to be legally forced into an armoured dayglo jumpsuit!
Wtf? I have every objection to compulsory anything like that.
We are not children, we are adults. We do not need to be told that we have to be seen by wearing hi-viz. If we choose not to wear it then that is our lookout.
Everybody has the choice to wear it or not, we should not be told we have to and I wish to hell people would stop with all this Health and Safety crap we are having to endure - if you want to wear hi-viz, go and bloody buy some but don't inflict that sort of crap on me or you'll soon be told to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Bloody "Think of the children" tree-hugging safety nazis are killing off everything that is any fun, and the more we bend over and allow successive governments to bring in these sort of laws, the sooner motorcycling will die off.
If truth be known I am 100% against the laws that say we have to wear a crash helmet. If people get killed because they are too stupid to wear a helmet or whatever then I see it as natural selection. Those who have a brain and wish to stay alive will do whatever to make that happen. If someone has that little regard for their own life then let them die. Personally I'd never ride without a decent quality helmet, but I hate the fact that I have to be told to do so by a government "for my own safety". If I want to spread my brains across the tarmac then I should be allowed to do so, they are my brains after all.
If you want safety, give up motorcycling and take up knitting.
Dizzy, we go on holiday to the south of France most years (not on the bikes yet but Route Napoleon keeps calling) and the scooter and moped riders down there particularly are sodding terrifying. They seem to believe that balancing a helmet on the top of your head (to not mess with your hair I presume) counts as wearing it, no protective clothing and no sense. Having nearly broken my ankle coming off, I still physically wince when I see then in flipflops and shorts. I'm actually shaking now just thinking about it.
Why?
Their skin, not yours. If they want to look like shredded beef then fair play to them, let it happen. I couldn't care less if they scrape every square inch of skin off themselves, as long as I, or anyone I like doesn't get hurt when they do it.
the National MAG demo (which will be focusing on the French and Irish plans to bring in compulsory Dayglo, and with full-length sleeves in the Irish case).
Huh?? Full length sleeves day-glo yellow vest?
What madness is this?
Please post a link to the govt proposal for this. I know plenty of Irish bikers who would be interested (and outraged) at such ****wittery. Like has been said, we're not children and will not be treated as such.
Red Herring
20-06-11, 07:30 PM
....If I want to spread my brains across the tarmac then I should be allowed to do so, they are my brains after all.
I've no problem with that Lozzo providing you promise to do a proper job first time. I will however object if you use up millions of my hard paid taxes keeping you alive in a vegetable state because some dipstick of a doctor decided you were worth saving.
Oh, and if you could avoid doing it on an major road on a week day as well, the traffic congestion caused when the police have to close the road to clean up said brains (or lack of) costs us millions in lost revenue.
I've no problem with that Lozzo providing you promise to do a proper job first time. I will however object if you use up millions of my hard paid taxes keeping you alive in a vegetable state because some dipstick of a doctor decided you were worth saving.
Oh, and if you could avoid doing it on an major road on a week day as well, the traffic congestion caused when the police have to close the road to clean up said brains (or lack of) costs us millions in lost revenue.
So it's a financial thing rather than a freedom of choice issue, is it? You should go back and read my post again, I did mention that I would always wear a helmet, it's the being told I have to that riles me.
My family are well aware of my wishes to be allowed to die if I am in a veggie state. I don't wish to be a burden and if I can't maintain a concious life with my body supporting itself then I have no desire to live and cost anyone anything. If the worst happens I would rather a life-support machine be used to keep alive someone who stands a chance of a normal life in the future, not to keep me a cabbage having everything done for me.
There are a number of different regulations coming in at various stages, which add up to a fairly large amount of hassle for bikers across Europe. The French protest this weekend were about proposals over there to introduce the following from September:
Riders to be forced to wear fluorescent / reflective jackets
Larger number plates
Mandatory retraining after 5 years absence from riding
Jail for going 30mph over the limit
More speed cameras
Confiscating GPS to avoid speed camera warnings
In addition to this, there are a raft of regulation changes coming through from our favourite source of fantasy, the EU:
Mandatory ABS for all motorcycles
Mandatory Automatic Headlights for all vehicles
Anti-tampering restrictions - with the aim of keeping this somewhat short, there will be no changes from manufacturers specification allowed between airbox and exhaust and along the drivetrain if approved.
Regular random spot-checks at the roadside to support the above
Bi-annual "super MOT" (along the lines of the German test) in place of the current annual check - I think we've discussed this previously
Bless the ole cheese eating surrender monkeys.
However, all the protests in the uk for Kills spills, or the whole westminster parking hubub, still ahsnt reversed any of our blessed governments decisions. The French just give in.
I dont know that i agree with the filtering thing, but really, is the hi vis thing that bad a thing to implement?
No-one makes the police, or any of the other services, join that profession. They know the likely activities of the job when they apply
It's possible that I don't agree with some percent of my taxes going on healthcare for *delete as appropriate* smokers, obese, bungy jumpers etc.
The world we live in inclused and often happily tolerates those who live a less than saintly life.
Red Herring - of you had come a cropper doing what coppers do 'off duty' you would happily see the state in this tolerant society of ours look after you and your.
I'm sick of the holier than thou attitide from many people who think they have something superior to everyday folk, by dint of the job they signed up for.
Live and let live, is as good a motto as I've heard in a while
dizzyblonde
20-06-11, 07:44 PM
Dizzy, we go on holiday to the south of France most years (not on the bikes yet but Route Napoleon keeps calling) and the scooter and moped riders down there particularly are sodding terrifying. They seem to believe that balancing a helmet on the top of your head (to not mess with your hair I presume) counts as wearing it, no protective clothing and no sense. Having nearly broken my ankle coming off, I still physically wince when I see then in flipflops and shorts. I'm actually shaking now just thinking about it.
Aye, well because my best mate has a teenage son with a bike, and sees all his mates that ride peds with bald tyres, broken fairings, smashed indicators etc etc, she would prefer it if there was an MOT law that would highlight these issues more often, as these sort of folks are the real reason why this plank in Paris is trying to bring in these rules.
Why?
Their skin, not yours. If they want to look like shredded beef then fair play to them, let it happen. I couldn't care less if they scrape every square inch of skin off themselves, as long as I, or anyone I like doesn't get hurt when they do it.
Aye, but, not being funny Loz, they may want to ride around like that, but would you really want to be forced into such regulation because of countless number of knobheads spoiling your freedom. Would you really want to be forced to stand stll in traffic in your fully armoured textiles in 44 degrees in the centre of France (or rainy UK) in a dayglo vest like a car? Get pulled and repremanded for filtering, have your bike removed from your possession for having a non conforming end can....even though last year it was deemed perfectly legal?????????????
Huh?? Full length sleeves day-glo yellow vest?
What madness is this?
Please post a link to the govt proposal for this. I know plenty of Irish bikers who would be interested (and outraged) at such ****wittery. Like has been said, we're not children and will not be treated as such.
I only heard about this part myself at the weekend, so I must apologise for not having a proper reference - it was tagged onto the end of an article in the MAG members magazine talking about the French proposals. The best people to get in contact with would probably be MAG Ireland (http://www.magireland.org) for more details. I've also got to ring MAG UK tommorow to get some leaflets, so I'll see if I can get some more references while I'm at it.
I dont know that i agree with the filtering thing, but really, is the hi vis thing that bad a thing to implement?
Yes it bloody well is, haven't we got enough stupid money-grabbing laws in this country that restrict our freedoms - what if I lose my hi-viz or it gets nicked, does that mean I can't ride my bike home without risking a fine? Stick it where the sun don't shine, I'll never wear hi-bloody-viz as long as I'm still able to ride a bike.
As I said before, we are not children and I will not sit back and allow useless clueless politicians to make this kind of decision on my behalf. 99% of them have never ridden a bloody motorbike, so I don't see how the hell they can be in any position to judge what we should or shouldn't be wearing. It bloody riles me that if they do consult anyone on matters like this, it's up themselves safety nazi tw4ts like the IAM, and they don't seek general opinion from run of the mill motorcyclists.
Red Herring
20-06-11, 08:17 PM
No-one makes the police, or any of the other services, join that profession. They know the likely activities of the job when they apply........and the rest
Little off topic Messie, and even further off the point I was making. I have no problem whatsoever doing my job, and all that it entails. Indeed, I'm extremely grateful to all the idiots out there that keep me in work....
However as a taxpaying citizen of the UK I think I'm entitled to voice an opinion on what those taxes are spent on. Motorcycling is a dangerous activity and unfortunately not everybody has the common sense to keep risk in perspective. There are lots of laws that we as individuals may not like, but you have to be a serious retard not to see the sense in most of them. I know that Lozzo was making a statement about freedom of choice, rather than a dig at the helmet law itself, and all I was pointing out was that his freedom of choice can unfortunately have a consequence on the rest of society.
Gotta respect the French for their protesting prowess!
On a similar note, I think my other half said you're not allow to filter in Germany?
I only heard about this part myself at the weekend, so I must apologise for not having a proper reference - it was tagged onto the end of an article in the MAG members magazine talking about the French proposals. The best people to get in contact with would probably be MAG Ireland (http://www.magireland.org) for more details. I've also got to ring MAG UK tommorow to get some leaflets, so I'll see if I can get some more references while I'm at it.
Do you really think that bringing in law that restricts every motorcyclist is going to stop the clueless 16 year old idiots from riding scooters and peds with no brakes and bald tyres? Think again - 16 year olds will always do this no matter how many laws there are saying they shouldn't. All you're doing is allowing yourself to be ever tighter restricted to try and force some idiots to do something they never will anyway.
Motorcyclists should be self regulating. If you see a scooter rider with no brakes, force him into a situation where he'll need them and then watch him crash. Maybe then he'll do something about it or give up riding and then we won't have the law getting on our backs giving us more things to worry about.
16 year olds are a law unto themselves, if anything they should be charged a stupid-tax from the moment they are able to get a licence to cover the costs of their wrong-doings.
Red Herring
20-06-11, 08:28 PM
16 year olds are a law unto themselves, if anything they should be charged a stupid-tax from the moment they are able to get a licence to cover the costs of their wrong-doings.
I'm guessing you skipped puberty hey Lozzo? ;)
There are lots of laws that we as individuals may not like, but you have to be a serious retard not to see the sense in most of them.
Don't get me wrong, I have an enormous amount of respect for the guys and women who do your job, but I am dead against being treated like a child by a bunch of people who act like naughty schoolchildren when they sit in the House of Commons. There is no sense in being forced to wear hi-viz at all. Bikes have headlights on permanently nowadays, if a driver can't see that then hi-viz isn't going to make the blindest bit of a difference.
When a car driver pulls out on a bike and it crashes into them they should automatically be given a sight test because anyone who has decent eyesight will see a bike with its headlight on. If they fail then they are fined and off the road full stop, until such time as their corrected vision passes a test. If they pass after the accident then they should automatically be prosecuted for driving without due care.
It's simple, it's foolproof and it would work.
-Ralph-
20-06-11, 08:29 PM
Tres bien mes amis! I wish that we weren't so apathetic in the UK!
Err... what she said. If anyone is interested in getting out and standing up for their rights, the National MAG demo (which will be focusing on the French and Irish plans to bring in compulsory Dayglo, and with full-length sleeves in the Irish case) will be held in Birmingham on the 2nd of July. If anyone wants to head down from further afield, it coincides with the Heart of England rally (1st - 3rd July)
Count me in, I'm there!
Is there a thread somewhere giving us all the details? After all, this is one of the most active bike forums in the UK, if the MAG want us to participate, they need to tell us all it's happening.
I'm guessing you skipped puberty hey Lozzo? ;)
My mummy and daddy didn't buy me a moped, I bought my own after working three part time jobs to pay for it. I worked hard to keep it on the road and I never rode with no brakes or bald tyres because I figured the new parts were cheaper than the fines.
I see these worthless grunting pieces of crap every day in our shop, moaning at their mum because she can only afford to buy them a cheap scooter and not the top of the range one. We know that in three months time everything about that scooter will be destroyed and he'll be on his iphone 4 (bought by mummy) to his mum getting her debit car details to pay for the repairs needed. They make me want to reach across the counter and smash their stupid spoiled ungrateful faces in.
Do you really think that bringing in law that restricts every motorcyclist is going to stop the clueless 16 year old idiots from riding scooters and peds with no brakes and bald tyres? Think again - 16 year olds will always do this no matter how many laws there are saying they shouldn't. All you're doing is allowing yourself to be ever tighter restricted to try and force some idiots to do something they never will anyway.
Motorcyclists should be self regulating. If you see a scooter rider with no brakes, force him into a situation where he'll need them and then watch him crash. Maybe then he'll do something about it or give up riding and then we won't have the law getting on our backs giving us more things to worry about.
16 year olds are a law unto themselves, if anything they should be charged a stupid-tax from the moment they are able to get a licence to cover the costs of their wrong-doings.
We're not short of the same idiots up here, except that the weapon of choice is the knackered 10th-hand off-road bike. While not wishing actual violence on them, I can't help but wish they would grow up and gain some sense so that their actions aren't used as ammunition for politicians at all levels of government to try and outlaw something I love doing. It may be selfish, but I'm looking out for myself as much as protecting them.
-Ralph-
20-06-11, 08:46 PM
Compulsory Hi-Viz is a stupid idea. Will you be fined if you let it get too dirty like car numberplates do? What if you wear a rucksack over the top? What if the zip bursts in the wind? What if it gets lost?
So it's a financial thing rather than a freedom of choice issue, is it?
Sustaining human life is a financial burden on any government, and the result is loss of freedom of choice in many ways, not just you not be allowing to ride without a helmet. Drugs, firearms, or whatever.
Just see it as you're not being told to ride without a helmet, just that you would be anyway and the law is there for the people who cost money through their idiocy.
-Ralph-
20-06-11, 08:50 PM
Did you see my post Orose (#31)?
Seriously, if we don't already have a thread on this lets get it started. Lets have a thread every time MAG arrange a protest. I'm under no illusion that motorbiking is in danger of being eventually legislated out of existence. If it means protecting something I love, and I'm able to participate, I'll be there.
Red Herring
20-06-11, 08:59 PM
My mummy and daddy didn't buy me a moped, I bought my own after working three part time jobs to pay for it. I worked hard to keep it on the road and I never rode with no brakes or bald tyres because I figured the new parts were cheaper than the fines.
I see these worthless grunting pieces of crap every day in our shop, moaning at their mum because she can only afford to buy them a cheap scooter and not the top of the range one. We know that in three months time everything about that scooter will be destroyed and he'll be on his iphone 4 (bought by mummy) to his mum getting her debit car details to pay for the repairs needed. They make me want to reach across the counter and smash their stupid spoiled ungrateful faces in.
Finally we agree on something.... oh and before we go to far off track I don't agree with being made to wear a hi viz either.....and there is no way they are ever going to stop me filtering! If these rules do come into effect in France and I'm going to get done for riding in leathers and making progress through traffic I guess they will just have to try and do me for riding without a number plate as well....;)
DJFridge
20-06-11, 08:59 PM
Why?
Their skin, not yours. If they want to look like shredded beef then fair play to them, let it happen. I couldn't care less if they scrape every square inch of skin off themselves, as long as I, or anyone I like doesn't get hurt when they do it.
I wince because I'm a fellow human being, Lozzo (albeit they're French, but still).
Tres bien mes amis! I wish that we weren't so apathetic in the UK!
Count me in, I'm there!
Is there a thread somewhere giving us all the details? After all, this is one of the most active bike forums in the UK, if the MAG want us to participate, they need to tell us all it's happening.
I don't have a good copy of the flyer to hand, but the demo details are as follows:
Saturday, July 2, 2011 - Brum Demo - against European interference in biking
Organiser: West Midlands MAG
Ride to protest against European proposals for compulsory Day-Glo, compulsory ABS and anti-modification of motorcycles - Let Your Voice Be Heard! Make a weekend of it at the Heart of England Bike Rally.
Location: Gather at Noon for 1pm start - 'Hare & Hounds', Lickey Road, Rednal B45 8UU
If I'm honest, I didn't think there was that much interest in these sort of issues. As there seems to be, I'll try and be a bit more proactive about getting the word out about issues. In the meantime, check out the following page to find your local MAG group - they will be able to tell you about what your local authorities are up to, most of whom are finalising their local transport plans. http://www.mag-uk.org/en/members/a6342
-Ralph-
20-06-11, 09:10 PM
I don't have a good copy of the flyer to hand, but the demo details are as follows:
Saturday, July 2, 2011 - Brum Demo - against European interference in biking
Organiser: West Midlands MAG
Ride to protest against European proposals for compulsory Day-Glo, compulsory ABS and anti-modification of motorcycles - Let Your Voice Be Heard! Make a weekend of it at the Heart of England Bike Rally.
Location: Gather at Noon for 1pm start - 'Hare & Hounds', Lickey Road, Rednal B45 8UU
If I'm honest, I didn't think there was that much interest in these sort of issues. As there seems to be, I'll try and be a bit more proactive about getting the word out about issues. In the meantime, check out the following page to find your local MAG group - they will be able to tell you about what your local authorities are up to, most of whom are finalising their local transport plans. http://www.mag-uk.org/en/members/a6342
Cool, thread going up in Madlanders just shortly. Will be a good excuse for a rideout.
xXBADGERXx
20-06-11, 09:14 PM
I see these worthless grunting pieces of crap every day in our shop, moaning at their mum because she can only afford to buy them a cheap scooter and not the top of the range one. We know that in three months time everything about that scooter will be destroyed and he'll be on his iphone 4 (bought by mummy) to his mum getting her debit car details to pay for the repairs needed. They make me want to reach across the counter and smash their stupid spoiled ungrateful faces in.
I once witnessed one of these Mouth Breathers going almost rabid over a Yamaha Raptor or something , that he was going to razz about on the local roads .... the parents and grannies that were assembled around it asked to see something cheaper .... they were shown an Apache (a right old Piece of Excrement by all accounts) ..... the "Yoof" started this "kicking off" thing in the shop . The salesman was non-plussed and carried on , the Mother then asked a Golden Nugget of a question "Now , can we also have it restricted please ?" . It was already asthmatic as it was in standard trim . The Yoof stormed out of the shop calling his relatives all sorts of stuff . I looked at the Mother and she winked at me , I could have kissed her for all of her cleverness at outsmarting her offspring . Weeks later I witnessed him on a Sparkling new Aprilia Scooter , but at least he wasn`t on a stupidly fast Yamaha Raptor .
The Idle Biker
20-06-11, 09:25 PM
Cool, thread going up in Madlanders just shortly. Will be a good excuse for a rideout.
Maybe post it in the main Rideout section. I'm coming up for this, better to show some dissent now than to be complacent.
Good for les froggies, for once.
Compulsory Hi-Viz is a stupid idea. Will you be fined if you let it get too dirty like car numberplates do? What if you wear a rucksack over the top? What if the zip bursts in the wind? What if it gets lost?Well, it would be part of your every day bike kit wouldnt it. Like your jacket, your gloves, your boots and your lid.
Get real, if they wanted to implement it, they would. Simple really.
Protesting really doenst cut the mustard in good ole blightly. I am also chucking nicely with the comments from Lozzo. You sould like a child stamping his feet then you say we are adults and as bikers should be self regulating. Irony abound. :lol:
garynortheast
21-06-11, 03:31 PM
Protesting can and does make a difference. It depends what form the protesting takes and how many people take part. I might remind you that the poll tax was dropped and that witch Thatcher was seen out of office on the back of the massive campaign of protest, civil disobedience and non-payment.
You can either bend over and take it or make enough of a fuss that the lawmakers start to worry about their positions(!)
Sir Trev
21-06-11, 04:08 PM
Protesting can and does make a difference. It depends what form the protesting takes and how many people take part.
Yes and no... We've had lots of protests in this country but most of them do little but give rent-a-mob yet another chance to kick off, give the press something to write about, and cost the taxpayer a lot of money in police overtime and then the innevitable clean up. Public spending cuts will still happen, student tuition fees will still go up, petrol prices will still go up, train drivers will still get sacked, pensions will still get cut, and so on.
In this country we're too "nice" and will just do as we're told in the end. Unlike some EU countries that say yes in parliament but take a pragmatic approach in real life. Some people I saw in Corfu earlier this year had lids, but almost none of the locals did, I only saw two bikers wearing anything resembling protective clothing, and half the locals had death-trap 'peds with no licence plate at all... In the early years of the EEC the French government were notorious for saying one thing and doing something else to suit their own needs. And yes, the French are much better at protesting until they get their own way or some kind of compromise.
-Ralph-
21-06-11, 07:05 PM
Compulsory Hi-Viz is a stupid idea. Will you be fined if you let it get too dirty like car numberplates do? What if you wear a rucksack over the top? What if the zip bursts in the wind? What if it gets lost?
Well, it would be part of your every day bike kit wouldnt it. Like your jacket, your gloves, your boots and your lid.
If it became law, then yes it would. What has that got to do with any of my post above? :confused:
Get real, if they wanted to implement it, they would. Simple really. Protesting really doenst cut the mustard in good ole blightly.
Did I say they wouldn't? Does that mean I'm not allowed to or shouldn't join a protest? It's because the politicians know the UK is filled with spineless people with a defeatist attitude, that they implement what they want when they want. Not so in France, after people were ignored by the politicians in France recently with the rise in retirement age, something they are not used to, the French are well fired up for strike havoc again. We just go, "oh well!"
I am also chucking nicely with the comments from Lozzo. You sould like a child stamping his feet then you say we are adults and as bikers should be self regulating. Irony abound. :lol:
That's all Lozzo's bit I think.
;)
Did I say they wouldn't? Does that mean I'm not allowed to or shouldn't join a protest? It's because the politicians know the UK is filled with spineless people with a defeatist attitude,
Spineless and defeatists or just too lazy and don't give too much of a toss to get out of bed in the morning and do anything about it?
Just thought I'd drop in a video from the FFMC from various points across the country: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjdyk4_manifestation-des-motards-en-colere-le-18-juin-2011-a-paris_auto
Jamesy D
22-06-11, 06:03 PM
I once witnessed one of these Mouth Breathers going almost rabid over a Yamaha Raptor or something , that he was going to razz about on the local roads .... the parents and grannies that were assembled around it asked to see something cheaper .... they were shown an Apache (a right old Piece of Excrement by all accounts) ..... the "Yoof" started this "kicking off" thing in the shop . The salesman was non-plussed and carried on , the Mother then asked a Golden Nugget of a question "Now , can we also have it restricted please ?" . It was already asthmatic as it was in standard trim . The Yoof stormed out of the shop calling his relatives all sorts of stuff . I looked at the Mother and she winked at me , I could have kissed her for all of her cleverness at outsmarting her offspring . Weeks later I witnessed him on a Sparkling new Aprilia Scooter , but at least he wasn`t on a stupidly fast Yamaha Raptor .
I deal with people like this on a weekly basis at work, except in reverse.
They'll come in, normally texting on their blackberry/iphone/whatchamahiggy and I'll go over, ask if they need any help. I'll be told that he's just bought a new Peugeout whatever or a new Aprilia thingamybob, and they need a helmet. And they want the cheapest helmet they can buy, aren't interested in a jacket or even gloves (normally until I say 'your hands might get cold').
Then mum will come in, I'll talk to her, she'll tell him to try on some jackets because she doesn't want her offspring spread all over the tarmac, he'll go on about 'not being cool' but the mother normally wins. Oh, and they go for a better helmet.
One guy dropped his helmet as he walked out of the shop, tripped over it, then picked it up and carried on walking perfectly casually, just after I'd told him that if he drops it there's little to no protective qualities.
And another stormed out of the shop calling his parents 'F*****g f*****s' because they wanted him to wear a jacket and gloves...
dizzyblonde
22-06-11, 06:19 PM
Just thought I'd drop in a video from the FFMC from various points across the country: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjdyk4_manifestation-des-motards-en-colere-le-18-juin-2011-a-paris_auto
Now thats more effective!
When you see videos, its a much better perspective of the numbers who turned out, than trying to imagine it.
-Ralph-
22-06-11, 07:24 PM
And another stormed out of the shop calling his parents 'F*****g f*****s' because they wanted him to wear a jacket and gloves...
They deserve it. They couldn't be arsed to spend the time with him bringing the little sh!t up to have respect and behave properly, and now they can't be arsed to taxi him around for one more year, so they are getting him a moped. If my son calls me a 'F*****g f*****s' when he's 16, he won't be leaving the shop under his own steam.
beabert
23-06-11, 02:31 AM
One guy dropped his helmet as he walked out of the shop, tripped over it, then picked it up and carried on walking perfectly casually, just after I'd told him that if he drops it there's little to no protective qualities.
Dont get me started on this nonsense :D.
hongman
23-06-11, 04:58 PM
They deserve it. They couldn't be arsed to spend the time with him bringing the little sh!t up to have respect and behave properly, and now they can't be arsed to taxi him around for one more year, so they are getting him a moped. If my son calls me a 'F*****g f*****s' when he's 16, he won't be leaving the shop under his own steam.
Wow, is all I can say.
I couldnt fathom my kids saying something like that to me or my missus. I mean they are 5 and 1 currently but even in the future.
Biker Biggles
23-06-11, 06:51 PM
Bravo.Vive la revolution
Sometimes the French do things well. This is one of those times!
Compulsory hi-viz - I'm not convinced it works all the time. This paper probably aligns with my thinking (accepting it will have some bias, of course). (http://www.righttoride.eu/virtuallibrary/ridersafety/MotorcycleConspicuity160611.pdf) And restriction of modification just annoys me as an engineer - I am sure existing legislation is sufficient to deal with badly implemented mods so why restrict creative individual alterations if they're satisfactory quality? I'm definitely with Lozzo on the freedom of choice point.
These further threats from Europe have made me decide I'm definitely going to rejoin MAG. (I've been musing about it for some time, having been a member for many years before wife, kids & unemployment came along a few years back.)
I also hope to be able to join the demo. Even if it's raining! And I think I've found something worthy of my few and far between Facebook status updates - it's important to spread the word.
I've realised this has made me bloody angry.:smt093
tweakedtay
24-06-11, 12:33 PM
Way to go everyone involved. High viz. vests....really? Bunch of crazy frenchmen....
Maybe I can start that here....Lanesplitting is illegal over here for some reason.....
DJFridge
24-06-11, 09:48 PM
Why does hi-viz have to mean those sh1tty vests? My 10 year old's jacket has hi-viz flashes in the arms so it shows up without looking too dorky. Or risk blowing off in a gust of wind.
-Ralph-
26-06-11, 09:51 PM
Why does hi-viz have to mean those sh1tty vests? My 10 year old's jacket has hi-viz flashes in the arms so it shows up without looking too dorky. Or risk blowing off in a gust of wind.
Would your jacket contain enough Hi-Viz to pass any new regulation? Do you think everyone is going to go out and buy a new Hi-Viz textile jacket, if they have perfectly good leathers or textiles already? Or if they don't believe that textiles offer sufficient protection? The law if introduced would have to allow for the cheap hi-viz vests.
The Idle Biker
08-08-11, 10:24 AM
Here's an update from a week or two ago. I'm not particularly well informed, I lifted this from another (much lesser) forum, the post was dated 21st July. If the info' is current and accurate, things could head down the slippery slope quicker than we might have thought.
So does anyone know anything else and if the protests are going ahead, I will be going, will you?
THIS AFFECTS ALL OF US, PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO ITEMS 6 AND 7Further to the meeting I've just had with the chairman of the committee of EU Internal Market and Consumer Protection (IMCO) I now have a better idea of what we are looking at as the Anti Tampering Regulation moves through the EU legislative process.
Amendments are on the table now and being discussed, like giving an opt out for special 'one-off' builders, (but only the British and the Finns want that) and also making ABS compulsory on mopeds too (Germans want that- or rather the German ABS industry wants that). When IMCO finally vote on this (4/5 or 6th Oct) it then goes to Parliament.
As this is a 'Framework Regulation' once passed it does not have to be transposed into Law in Individual Member States, as it will happen automatically.
So, as far as the 25th September Motorway Mayhem day goes, the 10 very real European issues that we still need to draw attention to are:
1- The Anti tampering Regulation: Specifically Article 18 which wants to stop all modifications to complete power train, from airbox to controlling the rear tyre profile.
2- Compulsory ABS. If we can't stop this, we must get a switch so that we have an option in difficult conditions where ABS doesn't function well.
3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.
4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...
5- RMI. Repair and Maintenance Information. Rather than keeping it hidden and available for huge expense, there is a chance that manufacturers will be forced to provide ECU codes etc for a fee. What that fee is remains to be seen.
6- The very worrying article 52: "If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers"
So if your K&N filter can fit a CBR race bike and a CBR road bike, the best way to police that, is to make it illegal to sell the filter in Europe.
The Delegated Acts are the most scarey thing, as they are the lists and details drawn up by the unelected and we won't get to see what they are including until after the Regulation has been passed!
7- In solidarity with the French we will be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.
8- Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament too.
9- All these issues lead to the same thing, that we must take the blame for the incompetence of other road users. And while the emergency stop has been removed as a compulsory element of the car driving test, we are jumping through hoops with ill judged UK interpretation of EU licencing directives.
10- Another EU licencing Directive is on its way (3DLD) to step the bike licencing system still further and the DfT and DSA still haven't sorted even the consultation process, even though it is meant to be in law by now and enacted January 2013.
Plans for the day (25th Sept) are that all over the country riders meet at midday in M-way services (or suitable similar if there's no motorway to hand) and at exactly 13.00 groups of riders set off to ride perfectly legally at a sedate Sunday 45/50mph on the country's motorway network. Perhaps over bridges, near the confluence of other motorways etc.
The MAG and other websites will carry details of all the meeting places.
It's the simultaneous element that carries the weight, as even 50 bikes together will cause disruption, but happening everywhere across the country will be powerful and will have the traffic alerts discussing it. They'll be primed.
Riders will disperse as rapidly as they appeared, but after riding for a few junctions at below the speed the trucks use, our impact should be felt.
No need for marshalls, no one can go the wrong way.
No hot engines, no speeches, ride as far as you wish
One media contact number
The threat that we can do it again on a different day of the week will be established.
Our MEPs will be preparing to rubber stamp another regulation put before them. This time they may stop to read it.
Kind regards
Paddy Tyson
Campaigns Co-ordinator
MAG (UK) - Motorcycle Action Group
I was going to open another new thread for that, once I'd caught up on the latest news from MAG central - as you would expect, now that it's starting to gain traction amongst the bike media, it is becoming a bit of a juggernaut.
dizzyblonde
08-08-11, 11:25 AM
So where are the meeting points ??
Ask me next week, at least as far as Yorkshire goes - planning meeting is on Sunday.
AFAIK, they are being posted in MCN as well as on the MAG website closer to the time - it's supposed to be a flash mob, so limited notice. Sunday 25th Sept is the date, that's for certain.
andrewsmith
08-08-11, 09:31 PM
Who's the contact for the North East?
Bluefish
09-08-11, 12:43 PM
100,001 i'm here now, :0)
Bit late, or early depending on your point of view. The FFMC are intending on being out again "in response to a government that continues to adopt a 'can’t see you, can’t hear you' attitude", on the 10th and 11th of September.
http://ukfrancebikers.com/2011/08/27/fancy-joining-100000-french-angry-bikers-from-the-uk-here-is-how-and-when/
Nobbylad
29-08-11, 09:32 AM
Do you know what? I actually quite fancy this, maybe riding down Friday night, overnight ferry and then day out round France. Could try and get back Saturday night ferry or Sunday afternoon timetable permitting.
dizzyblonde
29-08-11, 09:57 AM
Bit late, or early depending on your point of view. The FFMC are intending on being out again "in response to a government that continues to adopt a 'can’t see you, can’t hear you' attitude", on the 10th and 11th of September.
http://ukfrancebikers.com/2011/08/27/fancy-joining-100000-french-angry-bikers-from-the-uk-here-is-how-and-when/
I might ask my mate to set up a camera on her bike this time, purely for an example of how to do it on 25th September here:p
Nobbylad
29-08-11, 11:52 AM
Hmmm...cheapest ferry was £150 for me, Nobbylass and the bike.
littleoldman2
29-08-11, 06:46 PM
I was thinking of going on the 25/9 but now not sure, because if we only use the inside lane on a Sunday and for only 20 minutes, its hardly going to bring the country to a stand still. Nobody will be bothered and the MEPs will not be influenced in anyway. I don't want to be negative and anything is better than nothing at least MAG are doing something. If I do go I'll have to overtake the others at 46mph. From the MAG website "On the 25th September you can make your voice heard. Starting from service areas across the country, we all ride at 1pm, 45mph, using the inside lanes and disperse 20 minutes later. Negotiations are ongoing and as citizens we must be considered. This is the first time. Let's show what we could be capable of."
Can go as far as the group likes - I have no intention of only doing 20 minutes, mainly because its at least 25 miles to the next services from where I'm starting :p
Anyway... if your speedo is slightly inaccurate, and 45 miles an hour means that you're at risk of running into the back of another bike, then you should take whatever avoiding actions you think are necessary.
was that sufficient in the CYA department?
littleoldman2
29-08-11, 07:30 PM
Can go as far as the group likes - I have no intention of only doing 20 minutes, mainly because its at least 25 miles to the next services from where I'm starting
Anyway... if your speedo is slightly inaccurate, and 45 miles an hour means that you're at risk of running into the back of another bike, then you should take whatever avoiding actions you think are necessary. Now that sounds a lot more like it.
dizzyblonde
29-08-11, 08:56 PM
Iif we only use the inside lane on a Sunday and for only 20 minutes, its hardly going to bring the country to a stand still.
From the MAG website "On the 25th September you can make your voice heard. Starting from service areas across the country, we all ride at 1pm, 45mph, using the inside lanes and disperse 20 minutes later. Negotiations are ongoing and as citizens we must be considered. This is the first time. Let's show what we could be capable of."
But there are two inside 'lanes' ;)
littleoldman2
29-08-11, 09:23 PM
Don't worry Dizz I'll be out and do me bit, its how we get thousands out that now bothers me.
I've been to 3 bike dealers today with posters and mugged people with handouts - it's not going to be lack of effort ;)
I reckon there is a fair bit of a positive buzz out there, and it'll be building as the editorials start showing up in magazines. MCN is also running a double-page spread in the weeks before, but there's no substitute for word of mouth.
littleoldman2
29-08-11, 10:31 PM
I've been to 3 bike dealers today with posters and mugged people with handouts - it's not going to be lack of effort
I reckon there is a fair bit of a positive buzz out there, and it'll be building as the editorials start showing up in magazines. MCN is also running a double-page spread in the weeks before, but there's no substitute for word of mouth. I really appreciate that. So what can the rest of us do quickly and easily to help.
Red Herring
30-08-11, 05:33 AM
I wonder if it is this sort of behaviour that is leading to an apparent deterioration in the attitude of French drivers towards motorcyclists. Historically I've always noticed that they seem far more positive towards bikers and will generally go out of their way to help you through traffic. On a recent trip to France though I was nearly taken out twice in the same day by drivers who deliberately moved across and stopped me from filtering.
Just be careful about what you are trying to achieve here. Annoying the general public may not be to your advantage in the long run.
Specialone
30-08-11, 06:02 AM
I wonder if it is this sort of behaviour that is leading to an apparent deterioration in the attitude of French drivers towards motorcyclists. Historically I've always noticed that they seem far more positive towards bikers and will generally go out of their way to help you through traffic. On a recent trip to France though I was nearly taken out twice in the same day by drivers who deliberately moved across and stopped me from filtering.
Just be careful about what you are trying to achieve here. Annoying the general public may not be to your advantage in the long run.
Yep, I've thought about these concerns myself, if you stop car drivers, with no interest in bikes whatsoever, going about their busy lives you can end up alienating us from them forever.
They will get in the mindset of, they are always zooming past us with loud exhausts, they are reckless and have more accidents etc etc and then they make us late for work, I can't see much sympathy coming our way tbh.
From a personal point of view, I'm going to France on Thursday until the 10th, I'll be pi55ed off if I miss my 10am ferry because of traffic problems, it's my wifes birthday that day so I'll be popular if I end up getting back a lot later.
Phil
They will get in the mindset of, they are always zooming past us with loud exhausts, they are reckless and have more accidents etc etc and then they make us late for work, I can't see much sympathy coming our way tbh.
If we're honest though, isn't that already their mindset?
One of the most annoying parts for me is the things that are being brought in "for our protection", like daylight running lights and hi-vis (although the latter isn't yet proposed on this side of the waters, I suspect it is only a matter of time). My view is that these things need to be loaded onto drivers, as it is them that are causing the collisions in urban areas. Personally, I'd like to see some incentives towards encouraging training for drivers, and it would also be nice if a recent eye test result was part of the renewal process for driving licences.
Specialone
30-08-11, 06:46 AM
If we're honest though, isn't that already their mindset?
One of the most annoying parts for me is the things that are being brought in "for our protection", like daylight running lights and hi-vis (although the latter isn't yet proposed on this side of the waters, I suspect it is only a matter of time). My view is that these things need to be loaded onto drivers, as it is them that are causing the collisions in urban areas. Personally, I'd like to see some incentives towards encouraging training for drivers, and it would also be nice if a recent eye test result was part of the renewal process for driving licences.
Ollie, don't get me wrong, I don't want any of the eurotw4ts forcing unnecessary measures on us either.
My wife works in opthamology and the amount of old people that drive with very poor eyesight is frightening.
I think over 60's should have eyesight checks and driving assessments done on a yearly or whatever basis.
As an additional punishment, people caught using a mobile phone or careless driving, they should have a driving assessment done at their cost and graded based upon this.
andrewsmith
30-08-11, 07:26 AM
If we're honest though, isn't that already their mindset?
One of the most annoying parts for me is the things that are being brought in "for our protection", like daylight running lights and hi-vis (although the latter isn't yet proposed on this side of the waters, I suspect it is only a matter of time). My view is that these things need to be loaded onto drivers, as it is them that are causing the collisions in urban areas. Personally, I'd like to see some incentives towards encouraging training for drivers, and it would also be nice if a recent eye test result was part of the renewal process for driving licences.
Sad thing is, there is people like that here.
Last Friday A1 crawling 95% of drivers will move and help you filter. That other 5% will create a dangerous situation for themselves and others.
Well the eurotw*ts will move back on to cars after the bikes debate and the next proposal will be more extreme than whats proposed for motorcycles
dizzyblonde
30-08-11, 08:10 AM
I wonder if it is this sort of behaviour that is leading to an apparent deterioration in the attitude of French drivers towards motorcyclists. Historically I've always noticed that they seem far more positive towards bikers and will generally go out of their way to help you through traffic. On a recent trip to France though I was nearly taken out twice in the same day by drivers who deliberately moved across and stopped me from filtering.
Just be careful about what you are trying to achieve here. Annoying the general public may not be to your advantage in the long run.
I'll tell you what it is....and its straight from a French horses mouth. It has nothing to do with 'bikers' it has everything to do with 16 year old moped riders who derestrict their vehicles from the off, ride around on battered crates and have no idea how to ride on a public road without causing grief.
This and this alone started the war on bikers from some official in Paris(or where ever it is)
Its snowballed, because someone official has had his cage rattled and its spread in society, as you know how propaganda usually effects lemmings ;)
littleoldman2
30-08-11, 09:02 AM
I wonder if it is this sort of behaviour that is leading to an apparent deterioration in the attitude of French drivers towards motorcyclists. Historically I've always noticed that they seem far more positive towards bikers and will generally go out of their way to help you through traffic. On a recent trip to France though I was nearly taken out twice in the same day by drivers who deliberately moved across and stopped me from filtering.
Just be careful about what you are trying to achieve here. Annoying the general public may not be to your advantage in the long run. 1.I for one will not be using my time and petrol for this if I thought there was an alternative that would bring results. 2. It didn't do the truckers any harm with the fuel protests, so we need to educate the public to why we are protesting via the media. 3 Anything that starts to really mobilise the motorcycle community has to be a good thing.
DJFridge
30-08-11, 12:35 PM
Just an aside, going back to the original proposal of compulsary hiviz. Having spent two weeks in France, including a week in the south, I can't see it happening here while the police bikers are still wearing short sleeved shirts on the Autoroutes!!
Red Herring
30-08-11, 07:40 PM
My view is that these things need to be loaded onto drivers, as it is them that are causing the collisions in urban areas.
That's not been my experience. It's fair to say that a large proportion of the collisions that occur in an urban area between a motorcyclist and a driver involve the driver not having seen or allowed for the motorcyclist, but frequently you find that the motorcyclist simply didn't allow for this and left themselves extremely vulnerable to the drivers "mistake". I've been to very few collisions in these circumstances where I could with any honesty say the blame lay with only one of the parties involved.
That's not been my experience. It's fair to say that a large proportion of the collisions that occur in an urban area between a motorcyclist and a driver involve the driver not having seen or allowed for the motorcyclist, but frequently you find that the motorcyclist simply didn't allow for this and left themselves extremely vulnerable to the drivers "mistake". I've been to very few collisions in these circumstances where I could with any honesty say the blame lay with only one of the parties involved.
I'd agree that they aren't totally at fault - seeing a car at a junction ahead should put you on guard as you say. The point I was trying to make is that the onus seems to be on changing the victims behaviour to prevent future incidents.
On a related note, I did pick up a PDF from the DFT earlier, which suggests that the generally held belief that bikers make better drivers does appear to have some scientific backing - in their experiments, dual licence holders spent more of their time in these types of situation looking for bikes. Link for the PDF is http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme1/cardriversattitudesskillsrefmotorcyclists/pdf/rsrr121findings.pdf
hardhat_harry
30-08-11, 08:20 PM
Maybe they should pass a law to paint all cars in Hi-Vis paint?
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