MiniTwin Police part 2! [Archive] - SV650.org

TC252

24-06-11, 05:21 PM

Hello All!

Well after a constructive discussion with the NEMCRC committee last night a sucessful conclusion was reached.

So as from now the NEMCRC will be running the MiniTwin class strictly following the Rules and Regulations, as set down by the organisers of the class, Mike Edwards and Tim Jones.

If anyone is unsure where to find these regs, they are on the class website: minitwins.co.uk.

At the clubs Knockhill meeting both myself and Chris will be acting Eligibility Officers assisted by chief scrutineer Dave Mallon.

All racers wishing to compete in the MiniTwin class will have there machines checked over to ensure they comply with the class regulations.
We will also be Dyno testing the first three finishers and 'several' random others after each race.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who attended the club meeting-I wish there had been more, but we cant have everything!

So there we have it, hopefully we can now get down to running a class as fairly as is practically possible, one to be proud of, which will hopefully attract many newcomers as well as existing Minitwiners!!

Happy Racing-see you ALL at Knockhill!!!

TC252

gavd

24-06-11, 06:12 PM

TC252

24-06-11, 06:32 PM

Oh dear, oh dear!!!

Gav, why did it have to be you!! One of my buddies in the paddock!!
Well mate, all I can do is be totally straight with you-like I would be with everybody else.

Firstly, i'm not yet that qualified in what to look for as far as pipework is concerned.

Secondly, at our meeting we were more in favour of trying to run the class as close as we can to Bemsee. One of the committee, Geoff Bell will be at there meeting at Snetterton and will be quizing them as much as possible on what they consider acceptable or not.

And so the crux...if it's normal for Bemsee to pick up your bike for the Pairs pipework then i'm sorry mate, we'll probably have to do the same.

I think i'm going to get some stencils and paint "LEPER" on the side of my van!!!

Then again-I know where there's a lovely, well looked after, and totally standard curvy looking for a good thrashing!!

I'll let you know as soon as I do when I get any info ok mate?

jp:98

24-06-11, 06:55 PM

chris #113

24-06-11, 07:29 PM

hi tony/chris got a question for you, My bike does not have the pair solenoid system i.e has blanking plates in place. This makes no differance to performance but apparently bemsee picks riders up on this while other clubs have a more common sense attitude towards it. As my bike never came with the pair system i am finding it difficult to find one to purchase. Please advise
Thanks, Gav
hi gav, sorry to tell you,but your paired solenoid sysem will have to be one for knockhill,thats one of the main things i'll be looking for,aswell as tank risers,airbox rubbers etc etc, is we are going to run our class to close to the ruleas as poss, you'll have to get them on mate.

regards chris #113

TC252

24-06-11, 07:36 PM

Hi JP:98,
page 2 of regulations under Fairing and Seat Unit heading states, ' The petrol tank must remain as originally produced by the manufacturer'.

Therefore no tank modifications are allowed.

Hope that answers your question?

TC252

chris #113

24-06-11, 07:37 PM

thanks for having the meating. do you no where they will stand on the fuel tanks (cutting the anti-syphon open) i have a fully legal one, and a cut one on the bike. was hoping to keep the legal one as a spare, too nice for me learning ;)
hi there, in my honest opinion i cant see how a anti syphon missing in your tank is going to give anyone any advantage in a race,my bike came from thundersport and it hasnt got one, the main things we want to clamp done on is modified engines etc, i would'nt expect anyone of us to go and buy a new tank, i think that part of the rules is abit to much

chris #113

gavd

24-06-11, 07:44 PM

thanks for your quick answers lads, I found this thread http://www.motoforum.net/index.php?showtopic=53788,
so i just need the reed valves and the plastic vent covers as seen in this fiche??
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/44/Year/2003/ModelID/8083/Model/SV650/GroupID/384820/Group/2ND_AIR_(MODEL_K3_K4_K5_K6)_
no 1 an no 2 in this fiche and blank the plastic cover off according to mike edwards?

Getting complicated lol

gavd

24-06-11, 07:48 PM

chris, but if we are running to the letter of the rules surely his tank would be just as illegal as the pair system which also makes no differance to performance??

chris #113

24-06-11, 08:29 PM

chris, but if we are running to the letter of the rules surely his tank would be just as illegal as the pair system which also makes no differance to performance??
hi gav,its my personal opinion about the tanks, that rules a joke, the pair system missing will be a fail,its engine mods,it must give a slight advantage as pepole wouldnt remove them

gavd

24-06-11, 09:05 PM

hi chris i agree with you that some of the rules are a joke, but it would be seen as hypocritical if we only clamp down on some rules and not them all?

pair system description-The PAIR system is part of the Emissions Control set up, adding air to the exhaust gases at certain times to 'clean up' un-burnt fuel. A side effect of the process, that becomes more noticeable with aftermarket cans, is exhaust 'lean popping' or even mild backfires.

Its purpose is just to help combust the unburnt fuel in the exhaust and give less emissions, no performance increase i believe.

Il be getting a pair system anyway though just dont know which parts to keep and which to junk.

Thanks, Gav

TC252

24-06-11, 09:26 PM

Hi Gav,
true-it could get complicated!!

Firstly, I agree with you on the tank issue, yes some of the rules seem to be at best ridiculous, but they are rules. If I can see it written in black and white and not open to interpretation, as it says about tank mods, then surely we must enforce it.

Secondly-that link is a good read-might have to delve in a bit more!
Now my interpretation of Mikes quote 'To clarify, for an engine to be considered standard the 'second air reed valve' and the plastic vent cover need to be in place. You can block off these covers or the tube connecting to them but they must be present.'

Yep I would say you need the valve and the cover-items 1 & 2, but as the quote mentions the blocking off of the tube connecting to them, i'm wondering if that has to be still fitted as well?-Item 4.

I'm gonna try sorting out some way of getting in touch with Mike Edwards so we can clarify things easier.

Cheers Loon!!

TC 252

mike_red2uk

24-06-11, 09:28 PM

hi chris i agree with you that some of the rules are a joke, but it would be seen as hypocritical if we only clamp down on some rules and not them all?

Gav,
The agreement was to run it to all the minitwin rules, i.e. so it does what it says on the tin.
This a great opportunity for us at the nemcrc to have a great minitwin class, that will be known to be a real minitwin class.
After all its not about where you are on the grid but getting the service that we have paid for, i.e. a minitwin race to minitwin rules!

Tony/ Chris,
I believed it was agreed from Toots suggestion that poeple with minor infridgements are given the opportunity to correct items that may be found on their machines and then corrected them for the future meetings without being excluded from that weekends minitwin round, is my memory correct??? Note i say minor.

p.s. Tony have you got the blue lights fitted on your bike? if so do they meet the rules? :smt001

mike_red2uk

24-06-11, 09:53 PM

TC is now the PC !

andrewsmith

24-06-11, 11:20 PM

First and foremost

Lads well done for getting the club to start running BESMEE mini-twin rules.
May start to stop the extodus.
Has the U-L been killed, or is it still going to run next season?

mike_red2uk

25-06-11, 09:18 AM

Hi Andrew,
Yes the UL will still run, but with the bonus of no blured boundries!!!
Im sure we wont have a quick turn around to our numbers, but atleast the word is now out that NEMCRC is running a good minitwin class.
Im sure we all agree its a great step forward.

andrewsmith

25-06-11, 09:25 AM

Agreed!
Next challenge... Melville?

TC252

25-06-11, 11:03 AM

Hi Andrew,

it's nice to see you're so keen!

I think as far as getting the playing field level across the whole of the North East and Scotland is concerned, there's only one thing we at the NEMCRC can do!

And that will be to run our own events fairly and show just how much we can enjoy ourselves in this budget racing class!!

I'm hoping that if we can do that, then not only will we save our own class from extinction, I hope everyone else will want there racing ran along the same lines as well!!

If I think back to last year when there were 'the gang' of us on basically, bog standard curvys, did we not have just the best time ever?? The non qualifiers race at Knockhill will go down in history as some of the most enjoyable racing the club has ever seen! It would be great to get some of that feel good factor back!!

Keep laughing!

Hope to see you at Knockhill

TC 252

Sid Squid

25-06-11, 04:18 PM

This from an outsiders perspective - thus entirely disinterested.

Just to make clear to those who do not understand, (their are many - including plenty of those who should know better), the PAIR system does not, and indeed cannot, affect the way the bike runs - for better or worse.

So, there is no benefit in removing it, (ever, race use or otherwise), but importantly one would question why rule makers would have any regulations concerning it, unless they don't understand either.

TC252

25-06-11, 05:17 PM

Well matey,
if you're that dis-interested why did you bother putting a post up?

It sounds to me like the PAIRS system might be a bit like your brain-It doesn't actually do anything-but the truth is if you were to remove it you'd probably go better in a race!

Best regards

TC 252

callum

25-06-11, 07:17 PM

best put my standard engine back in

TC252

25-06-11, 07:48 PM

Hi Callum,

why not leave it in and see what it's puttin out on the dyno at Knockhill??

TC 252

green1

25-06-11, 08:42 PM

hi all,
its good to hear that the class is going to be monitored thats the way it should be .
in my view i dont think the dyno is going to show any 85bhp motors out there.
what it will stop is the 1% of minor infringements that might of been happening
you will know yourself,because when yous decided to go into minitwins you will have done
the same as myself and read the rules and regs to see what its all about and what you can do to your bike.
on the plus side i would put my house on it that the lads finishing in the top half of the races will still do so
because of there talent,some people have more than others, it isnt a drag strip were riding on its a race circuit
it has corners!!!!!!.
the only reason i havent rode with nemcrc this year is prior commitments,im hoping i can make the last one in October
enjoy yourselves at knockhill,hope it doesnt rain or chris will clear up quack quack.
max. #80

mike_red2uk

25-06-11, 09:03 PM

Hi max,
Totally agree, them lads with real talent (not me) will continue to lead, but atleast its now cleaned up this previous can of worms. After all we all spend our very hard earned cash on this and want to get what we have paid for, which is a budget minitwin race to all minitwin rules.
Not that any racing is budget or cheap :confused:
Its great that the nemcrc club at our meeting we attended on thursday were so friendly and open to our concerns, I'm sure this will continue to attract more people to our club !!! :grin:

callum

25-06-11, 09:07 PM

Hi Callum,

why not leave it in and see what it's puttin out on the dyno at Knockhill??

TC 252
The last time i had it on dyno it had 87 at rear wheel, hoping i have nearer 90 with the 700 big bore.
Joking Tony, be an interesting weekend

Sid Squid

26-06-11, 11:05 AM

if you're that dis-interested why did you bother putting a post up?
Do you speak English? Disinterested and uninterested mean two different things - disinterested means that I am not affected by the matter and can thus be impartial, uninterested means I don't care. See the difference? It's not difficult.

It sounds to me like the PAIRS system might be a bit like your brain-It doesn't actually do anything-but the truth is if you were to remove it you'd probably go better in a race!
Therein lies the whole point - the PAIR system does not, and cannot affect the way the bike runs, the riders brain does however have a significant effect, I suspect even yours would have an effect, but in that case quite a minor effect obviously.

Best regards
The tone of your post gives away that this is not true.

chris #113

26-06-11, 01:56 PM

The last time i had it on dyno it had 87 at rear wheel, hoping i have nearer 90 with the 700 big bore.
Joking Tony, be an interesting weekend
hi callum

you do realise if your bike is more than the 72bhp limit,you will be kicked out of the minitwin class on the spot and put in the modified class, we're not sure what race over the weekend we will run dyno tests,so any points you have scored in the minitwins will be removed,standard engines only, little things that are in the rules that you may not no about,we will point out and and it or them will have to be sorted for eastfortune in oct, engines that have been tamperd with will run in the modified class, you've been up front about it, anyone else that rides with nemcrc and you have tuned etc your engines. this is the way the club intends to run the class, you will be found out.

chris #113

26-06-11, 02:13 PM

Do you speak English? Disinterested and uninterested mean two different things - disinterested means that I am not affected by the matter and can thus be impartial, uninterested means I don't care. See the difference? It's not difficult.

Therein lies the whole point - the PAIR system does not, and cannot affect the way the bike runs, the riders brain does however have a significant effect, I suspect even yours would have an effect, but in that case quite a minor effect obviously.

The tone of your post gives away that this is not true.
tony,dont even bother replying to this southern fairy! he obviously is'nt a racer, probably knows how to nip in & out traffic jams in the smog in london and rides a pizza delivery bike :dwarf::p we arnt saying the pair system does or does'nt have any effect on how the bike runs!! it has to be on the bike to pass for minitwin rules!!

gavd

26-06-11, 02:38 PM

i think callum is just stirring with a big spoon lads lol,
sid- thanks for the input regarding the pair(i think some people were not aware of what it does and still arn't)its a stupid rule but a rule nontheless, i think tony just misinterperated what you meant (dis-interested/uninterested)!! as for southerners, all of englands south innit??harhar.
Another few ideas for chief inspector tony and sergeant chris-
if we are measuring on bob grants dyno at knockhill it is dynojet so i believe pretty much all the minitwins will be over 72bhp, bemsee measure with a dynapro which measures lower- for example steve jordans minitwin apparently puts out almost 80bhp on a dynojet but consistently 71bhp on dynapro??
so i woudnt automatically dq everyone over 72bhp(on bob grant dyno) or we will have no minitwins left

gavd

26-06-11, 02:43 PM

maybe when you speak to bemsee you could clarify this tony?

Also, im not sure about tony/chris but i am not familiar with an er6 or ducati ss so it would maybe be a good idea to research these a bit regarding non-standard or parts from other models ?

I would really like to see the club run a successful minitwins class to the same rules as bemsee!!

cough(still looking for a pair system lol)

TC252

26-06-11, 04:08 PM

Hi Gav,
point noted about the different hp measurements on different model of Dyno.
As far as Ducatis and Er6's are concerned-well it looks like Alex is giving up racing-so thats the Ducatis sorted, and maybe for just being awkward we should just ban or disqualify anyone on an Er6!! They're all pretty dodgy characters anyway if you ask me!!!
Well if we want to run it like Bemsee-there aint no Er6s on their grid!!

Hey Callum-we found out the other night that your brother has bought Toots SV-i'm sure he'll have a great time on that!!

See I just started at the bottom-and I like it there!!

TC 252

callum

26-06-11, 04:37 PM

hi callum

you do realise if your bike is more than the 72bhp limit,you will be kicked out of the minitwin class on the spot and put in the modified class, we're not sure what race over the weekend we will run dyno tests,so any points you have scored in the minitwins will be removed,standard engines only, little things that are in the rules that you may not no about,we will point out and and it or them will have to be sorted for eastfortune in oct, engines that have been tamperd with will run in the modified class, you've been up front about it, anyone else that rides with nemcrc and you have tuned etc your engines. this is the way the club intends to run the class, you will be found out.
Im joking Chris my bikes bog standard and the dyno will show that, Im glad use lot are going to be inforcing the rules. Just a suggestion, what about a volt metre when bikes running to see who's running total loss? Fairly easy test to do and quick. See you all at knockhill

TC252

26-06-11, 04:45 PM

Hi Callum,
yep, you're right about testing for total loss-me being an ex aircraft lecky will be able to check that in no time!!

Oh, I could also bring along my SA 80 and shoot anyone in possession of a battery charger!!

ttfn

TC

mike_red2uk

26-06-11, 05:15 PM

Tony,
Divint forget those god damn tyre warmers !!!! their for poofs!!! :smt031

chris #113

26-06-11, 05:48 PM

Tony,
Divint forget those god damn tyre warmers !!!! their for poofs!!! :smt031
not i good idea having dig at the chairman of the club mike! he was just saying when he first raced there was no such thing as tyre warmers! the guys been racing for years and is the brother of ian bell {ian bell motorcycles bedlington} who Have both won at the IOM...:D

chris #113

26-06-11, 06:02 PM

:cool:[QUOTE=gavd;2563562]i think callum is just stirring with a big spoon lads lol,
sid- thanks for the input regarding the pair(i think some people were not aware of what it does and still arn't)its a stupid rule but a rule nontheless, i think tony just misinterperated what you meant (dis-interested/uninterested)!! as for southerners, all of englands south innit??harhar.
Another few ideas for chief inspector tony and sergeant chris-
if we are measuring on bob grants dyno at knockhill it is dynojet so i believe pretty much all the minitwins will be over 72bhp, bemsee measure with a dynapro which measures lower- for example steve jordans minitwin apparently puts out almost 80bhp on a dynojet but consistently 71bhp on dynapro??
so i woudnt automatically dq everyone over 72bhp(on bob grant dyno) or we will have no minitwins left[/QUOTE i hear what ya saying gav, i'm sure bob grants wont be that far out, mines been on a dynojet dyno three times and is under 72bhp, if there that far out mine must have 60bhp :cool: and im still at the front \\:D/

andrewsmith

26-06-11, 06:17 PM

Chris/ Tony

It maybe be beneficial to bang a road Curvy, pointy and ER6 on the dyno to see what its doing. If a std curvy is making more than 72 brake the dynos running high

mike_red2uk

26-06-11, 08:41 PM

not i good idea having dig at the chairman of the club mike! he was just saying when he first raced there was no such thing as tyre warmers! the guys been racing for years and is the brother of ian bell {ian bell motorcycles bedlington} who Have both won at the IOM...:D

chris,
I know, I know and I know.
Just making light of the heavy mood pal! ;)
I wasnt having a dig at anyone, it was a quip at the arguments on here regarding technical issues. When simply the minitwin specification is clear and simple.
Nothing personal, never has been.

green1

26-06-11, 09:00 PM

ffs we havent been running in a cheating class for the last ex amount of years
there might have been the minor infringement.maybe down to lack of knowledge
or ignorance i dont know.
but all this whinging makes the northern riders look bad .
stick to the rules, monitoring the class to help people out who forgot to read the rules is the only way to go its the future (like garlic bread) .
max #80 . (#80 isnt for bhp by the way its my number)

toot

27-06-11, 08:53 AM

andrewsmith

27-06-11, 09:02 AM

SV650Racer

27-06-11, 11:26 AM

You need some "control" bikes that you know are totally 100% legit and setup bang on for fueling and are running well. You can then use these as the base for overlaying any other runs. After a while your eye will tell you whether the chart you have is right for a minitwin.

Dont just look at peak BHP, the shape of the curve on the SV650 is generally consistant to all bikes, torque also.

SoulKiss

27-06-11, 01:18 PM

tony,dont even bother replying to this southern fairy! he obviously is'nt a racer, probably knows how to nip in & out traffic jams in the smog in london and rides a pizza delivery bike :dwarf::p we arnt saying the pair system does or does'nt have any effect on how the bike runs!! it has to be on the bike to pass for minitwin rules!!

Oh dear, some people just don't know anything...

I suggest you perhaps run a search on "posts by user"...

anteater

27-06-11, 07:48 PM

H
point noted about the different hp measurements on different model of Dyno.
As far as Ducatis and Er6's are concerned-well it looks like Alex is giving up racing-so thats the Ducatis sorted,

TC 252

There is quite well documented information on the differences between dynopro and dynojet dynos and SAE & the other methods of measurement that would help.

As for the Ducati's they are quite simple to check for legallity to be honest, I can do a series of pictures for Tony / Scrootes which shows legal set up.

I do actually have a technical infringment on my bike; I drilled the swing arm to create bobbin mounting points! Only way I could get it to work with race paddock stand, I'm sure the extra 300 grammes didnt speed me up!

PS deffo chucking it, my transponder is on ebay just now to make sure I cant change my mind :(

Berlin

28-06-11, 06:09 AM

Great to see its now all sorted gents. now get oot and ride the buggerance out of them!

oh, and just a thought on "But my bike as an XZY fitted/missing/modified. Is it still ok"?

If its not Ok, take it off and buy a proper legal one or put it on or do whatever needs doing.

You are making a race bike. to a set standard, if it happens to be over modified its exactly the same as undermodified. It is taken to "standard" spec. Standard, in this case is "Minitwin"

If the bike had JHS cams in it you wouldn't dream of asking "Is it ok if i keep them in"?

However, rules such as drilling the frame to fit, for example, lock stop reducters (commonly known as B&Q door stops) so they don't fall off in a crash etc is common sense and I consider this to be a rule that is at the discression of the testers and examiners. No one is going to get any advantage from such a mod and its common sense for safety. same goes for drilling a hole or two in the very bottom of the frame for fairing mounts.

really missing the racing..
|
C

leon#51

05-07-11, 06:24 PM

Just out of interest, if the minitwins are getting dynoed at knockhill will there be a extra charge? cheers leon

crisis95

26-07-11, 08:51 AM

Just interested to know what went on at knockhill regarding dynoing and scrutineering of the Minitwins and if it was a success or not.

andrewsmith

26-07-11, 10:21 AM

Just interested to know what went on at knockhill regarding dynoing and scrutineering of the Minitwins and if it was a success or not.

+1

I know there was 1 less in the Modified for knockhill, as pixie was at Olivers Mount

toot

31-07-11, 10:02 PM

You have got to laugh tho. ;) :-D

andrewsmith

01-08-11, 08:25 AM

How many then Toot?

flymo

01-08-11, 08:28 AM

great news that you plan to run a class in this way. no point in having the regs if they arent followed.

If there are components under query for being on or missing from the bike "but they make no difference to the performance" then the way to deal with that is to lobby the rules to be changed, that wont obviously happen to your satisfaction at the scrutineer bay.

You have a choice to keep the regs aligned with bemsee or to use them as a starting point. As there seems no shortage of entries at bemsee along with a successful and competetive series I see no reason to start making any drastic changes to regs.

Dont want to follow the rules? Dont enter.