Removal of damper rod bolts

[muzikill]

Forks still in situ, they are a b*stard to remove! - im trying, trying to remove them! Ive got the fork oil seals to replace ...... hints and tips appreciated. ive read a few threads to gen up on this part & still having an issue with them :(

Can someone describe what the 'broom handle' method is as well?

[dazzle44]

have you try'd to slacken the bolts first while the fork springs and still in and top caps screwed on that normaly puts enough force on damper rod to stop it spinning while you undo the bolt

or take the springs out and put a broom handle down the inside of the fork stanction and push it down onto the damper rod to stop it moving

[barwel1992]

impact gun don't go jabbing stuff down there to stop them spinning

[squirrel_hunter]

Never done it with the forks in situ.

Take the fork out of the yokes, turn it upside down compress the fork as much as you can and while keeping compression undo the bolt. Sounds easy doesn't it. Trouble it I doubt its a one man job, or put it this way I always have an assistant on hand for this bit.

However if the bolt turns but does not undo its the broom handle for you. Take all the internals out that you can and stick a broom handle up it. Compress the fork onto the handle and undo the bolt.

It sounds so simple, but that bolt can be a real pain to get out. Last time I did one I took most of the skin off of one of my fingers when the bolt finally turned...

[squirrel_hunter]

impact gun don't go jabbing stuff down there to stop them spinning

But if the bolt spins the rod even under compression how will an impact gun help?

[barwel1992]

it shouldn't spin freely with force on it from the oil

[squirrel_hunter]

I have had it happen. Forks compressed as much as I can and someone else on bolt duty and all that happened was the internals turning.

[muzikill]

With the forks in situ i had the wheel off. I had a 8mm hex key stuck 'up' it. the L part of the hex key sticking out. The bottom part of the fork that the wheel bolts on to turns but when i jam it into my shoulder it stops turning. I tried hitting the end of the 'L' part of the the key thats stuck up in the bolt head with a hammer but no budge. And with the force im using the bottom part of the fork still turns, try to stop it turning aint working using a shoulder.

I cant think of a way to stop this because you cant get at the damper bolt head with the wheel back on. plus i dont wanna knacker the bolt head with a plain hex key. I noticed some people recommend using a impact hex socket, but i'll need one thats approx 2 inches long to get far enough up the fork end to reach the hex head damper bolt.

[Dicky Ticker]

Put an 8mm socket on an extension bar and use that to turn the hex key with an even pressure.Slide the axle back through but not all the way,leaving yourself enough room for the hex key to turn.
DO NOT HIT IT WITH A HAMMER BECAUSE IF YOU ROUND IT OFF YOU ARE IN THE POO
Failing achieving its removal by the above method I suggest you remove the complete fork and do as is previously recommended

[muzikill]

Put an 8mm socket on an extension bar and use that to turn the hex key with an even pressure.Slide the axle back through but not all the way,leaving yourself enough room for the hex key to turn.
DO NOT HIT IT WITH A HAMMER BECAUSE IF YOU ROUND IT OFF YOU ARE IN THE POO
Failing achieving its removal by the above method I suggest you remove the complete fork and do as is previously recommended

Yup the hammer methods stoopid, hmmm i could turn the fork that the axle threads into the other waqy round so it threads in straight away still leaving the hole to get into the bolt head, although it would still leave the problem with the other fork bolt.

It's not easy trying to get a a 8mm hex impact socket with a hex head 2 inches in length the can reach in deep enough to get to the bolt head.

[Dicky Ticker]

Use an ordinary "L"allen key for inside the fork--put the ordinary socket on the other end and turn it with the extension bar.All you are doing is extending the outside part of the L SHAPE TO GIVE YOU MORE LEVERAGE

[beabert]

Just did mine today, hand impact driver, about 10 whacks this time. The first time i did it they were locked tighted, i sharpened a broom handle, jammed it in to the damper, then used the hand impact driver. I use the same method to do them up too.

As for the bit i used, i cut the end off an ordinary hex key, it fits perfectly in to my driver as its the same size as the hex bolt :p:D

Got driver off ebay for a £5.

The broom method

The hex bolt is attached to the cylinder in the photo, the red dot on the cylinder is a protruded piece of metal. When you whack the shaped broom end into the cylinder the sharp protrusion cuts into the wood, allowing you to hold the cylinder. However the protrusion is very small, but it gripped enough for me. I also heated the hex bit once whilst it was in the hex bolt too, that broke the thread lock.

Sometimes it works with just the impact driver alone.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/dansarchive/broom-1.png

[TamSV]

I'm with DT, you just need to get some leverage on that allen key.

As far as the spinning fork leg goes, I've got a heavy duty rubber strap wrench I've used for holding forks while undoing top caps and bottom bolts. Like one of those things for opening jars, but bigger. Grips like a vice without damaging anything. Got it off fleabay for a few quid.

[Bibio]

don't mess around with stupid allen keys. go to halfrods and get yourself a proper jobby that fits on a ratchet £3 is better than rounding the bolt. if you can't move it with a ratchet then whack it with an impact driver.

[yorkie_chris]

Perfect excuse to get compressor and impact gun.

Take fork leg out of bike and hold brake caliper mounts in vice.

[Dicky Ticker]

I have said what I said taking it that the OP did not have a comprehensive workshop at his disposal i.e. compressor,impact tools and vice etc. just a decent set of DIY tools and leaving the forks still fitted to the bike.

[muzikill]

the cutting of allen key worked trick worked. they werent that tight its the flippin thread lock. by the way i used the front axle bolt as leverage. ive got pics to show how i did it this way. ill post em up soon. thanks for the help sv heroes.

Thank gawd i didnt have to use the mrs sweeping brush!

[Winder]

I have had success with the broom pole inside the fork, 8" Allen key in place but going through a ring spanner of the same size. Then just tap the spanner with a hammer. Hope that makes sense.

[beabert]

the cutting of allen key worked trick worked. they werent that tight its the flippin thread lock. by the way i used the front axle bolt as leverage. ive got pics to show how i did it this way. ill post em up soon. thanks for the help sv heroes.

Thank gawd i didnt have to use the mrs sweeping brush!

Now keep it! if you have used cheap seals you will need it sooner than you think like me :D

[squirrel_hunter]

don't mess around with stupid allen keys. go to halfrods and get yourself a proper jobby that fits on a ratchet £3 is better than rounding the bolt. if you can't move it with a ratchet then whack it with an impact driver.

Unfortunately the Halfords Pro Allen Key ratchet socket are to short to reach the bolt. I know from experience.

Perfect excuse to get compressor and impact gun.

Take fork leg out of bike and hold brake caliper mounts in vice.

But would this work on a fork where the damper rod bolt just spins the damper rod and internals?

[muzikill]

Heres how i did it...

Tools used. Cut hex key as required...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/5919610796_e078748955_z.jpg

Front wheel axle bolt used to hold it in one place just jam it against your body when it turns.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/5919051757_589e307965_z.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6014/5919052441_3e0bcf93a9_z.jpg

Oil that came out..
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6143/5919692196_dd53a7a6c2_z.jpg
Looking towards the front of the bike, Left fork that had the leak came out dark brown, right fork -the oil came out green.

Sorted...All cleaned up and ready to fill with new oil and refits .... well maybe....
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6147/5919622806_9166a77032_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5919614528_723c36c983_z.jpg

The old oil seal is on the right, it's approx 11 m deep and probably around 1mm more in diameter. The supposed oem one is not deep enough for the retainer spring to fit right and it just 'plops' into the fork same goes for the 'new' dust seal. K3 sv650s different parts from the rest strikes again. These were advertised as 00-04 seals but are not. I checked with suzuki in cupar and the parts that they thought were right were the same size as the smaller ones .... damn... on order and have to wait!

part no's for the old ones that came off. read from the inside edge.

Dust seal - (NGK?) NOK 41-80 BR3420F 18
Oil seal - (NGK) NOK 88-4 41-80 BR20031

The smaller ones cost me around 15 quid. As soon as i get the right size someone can have them for a tenner delivered. Im pretty sure they will be ok for earlier models. the reason they are wrong will be the K3 first pointy curse.

EDIT: looking around ebay it seems that these are for curvy's. The seller i bought them from advertised them as 00-04's i thought they were right as the k3 uses some stuff from the curvy before the k4 changed everything again!

[Dicky Ticker]

Try polishing out these scratches on the tubes before you refit them otherwise you may still have a leak
[It may be a reflection of the light I am looking at]


Glad the simple suggestion worked for you

[Holdup]

But would this work on a fork where the damper rod bolt just spins the damper rod and internals?

Should do, generaly the buzz gun should spin the bolt fast enough that it loosen's before the internals get a change to spin. Did it when me and my mate changed the springs on his car, with a ratchet on th nut the rod just span, got the buzz gun on it and it was off in seconds.

[mikerj]

But if the bolt spins the rod even under compression how will an impact gun help?

Because an impact gun doesn't apply a continuous force, so even if the damper rod rotates the individual impacts will still apply a considerable amount of force to the bolt because of the inertia of the damper rod. This is why they are very effective for this job.

[MJC-DEV]

Should add that mikerj fitted my cartridge emulators yesterday and the damper rods were un-done in about 2 seconds each using the air impact gun (springs still fitted of course).

[Dicky Ticker]

Nobody is denying the benefits of air tools but not everybody has them at their disposal. A properly equipped workshop makes most jobs much easier but for normal home maintenance does it justify the expense of fitting out a normal household garage?
I would love a decent compressor,a set of in line vices,,ramp and a pit,plus of course a rising motorbike ramp,even an overhead lifter is a necessity but who has all that in an normal garage.

[squirrel_hunter]

Should do, generaly the buzz gun should spin the bolt fast enough that it loosen's before the internals get a change to spin. Did it when me and my mate changed the springs on his car, with a ratchet on th nut the rod just span, got the buzz gun on it and it was off in seconds.

Because an impact gun doesn't apply a continuous force, so even if the damper rod rotates the individual impacts will still apply a considerable amount of force to the bolt because of the inertia of the damper rod. This is why they are very effective for this job.

Cheers guy, just wondering. I've not needed to try air tools out on forks yet but will keep this in mind.

Nobody is denying the benefits of air tools but not everybody has them at their disposal. A properly equipped workshop makes most jobs much easier but for normal home maintenance does it justify the expense of fitting out a normal household garage?
I would love a decent compressor,a set of in line vices,,ramp and a pit,plus of course a rising motorbike ramp,even an overhead lifter is a necessity but who has all that in an normal garage.

I agree with you not everybody has the fully equipped workshop and thats why the broom handle has worked for me in the past the the axle approach has worked here.

[muzikill]

Should i replace the damper bolts? - ive got stainless steel bolts the same size but dunno if this means i'd be replacing them will a lesser strength.

[yorkie_chris]

But would this work on a fork where the damper rod bolt just spins the damper rod and internals?

Yes

[yorkie_chris]

Should i replace the damper bolts? - ive got stainless steel bolts the same size but dunno if this means i'd be replacing them will a lesser strength.

No

[muzikill]

Any rules on tightening them back up? - doing it in situ? or out of the yoke? - hopefully they wont spin.

[beabert]

I can get them to 20nm by just holding the station with spanner at the brake mounts. I just use an impact driver to tweak them a bit more. They are supposed to be 30nm.

I must have lost so much oil, the bike feels solid now :D (im very light)

[squirrel_hunter]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

Was doing a fork seal change at the weekend with Stretchie on a GSXF, but a similar fork design when it comes to the damper bolt. And so it was an ideal opportunity to try the impact gun method having only used the broom handle before. And I must report I was really impressed. The compressor and impact gun is an expense but when you use it on something like this it pays for itself. No effort required to get that bolt out. Didn't need to compress the fork and play with the gun just whack it on and the bolt was almost out before I knew it. It even did the bolt with no oil in the fork after a slight miscommunication between us.

Now the only thing remaining that can be a pain is reassembly. Is there an easier way to do this? To get the fork back together we did the broom handle to hold the internals as we torqued the bolt back up, not the easiest thing to do...

[barwel1992]

We impacted it back up at work, if I remember rightly I don't thinkk we held it with any thing

[Winder]

Buy a piece of threaded rod from B&Q and weld/glue a bolt on the bottom. This replicates the Suzuki fork assembly tool. If you look at the FORK ASSEMBLY connections on the link below it shows all the different heads that screw onto the T bar tool ( or B&Q threaded rod ). You can bodge something together to act like the genuine Suzuki tool for a lot of bikes by welding the right size nut to the end of your threaded rod.

If you look at the SV650 connector it is actually the shape of a sharpened broom handle! This is what was recommended to me but I have never done it. I bought a 12v impact wrench for £20 on eBay that connects to the lighter socket of a car or direct to battery terminals and my trusty sharpened broom handle.

http://www.alpha-sports.com/tools/suzuki_tools.htm

[speedyandypandy]

I'm with beabert, I've taken SV, GSX-R, ZX-R forks apart and serviced them, a Mayor WOOD, or a minor wooden stick works a charm, wood is good... Maybe I should start this post over again?:rolleyes:

Last time I serviced a set of forks it was my mates zx6-r, after the internals where out from the first one using wood to help hold the internals, I did a small brainstorm and looked in my left-over-could-be-of-use-one-day metal box and found a pipe(old curtain pipe thingy) I hammered, filed and drilled to make myself a kwak fork tool :D

[Whitty]

We impacted it back up at work, if I remember rightly I don't thinkk we held it with any thing

Ouch! You animal! :)
They usually nip up easily by hand especially if dry from a full strip down. Don't forget new sealing washer if fitted on type of fork you are working on.