View Full Version : Did you know? - SHARP helmet testing.
Chris Bird
23-07-11, 11:03 PM
... That the SHARP helmet testing system is regarded as the most thorough retail Motorcycle Helmet test?
This is because they test your helmet against 1 impact at 18 mph,
Food for thought.
You might want to read this (http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/content/sharp-testing). They are tested at 3 different speeds for each impact point.
dizzyblonde
24-07-11, 03:21 PM
Sharp tests aren't unknown news.
However, they are dubious tests, as very expensive helmets Shoei for example, come out with really low ratings, as opposed to Shark for example. I needed a new lid recently and usually buy Sharks, but nobody had one to fit me, so had to buy a HJC, which is dire as far as the tests go.
I've had one Shark go down the road and bounce my head on the tarmac and it didn't look buggered, not that I used it after that.
As long as they do their job I'm happy
Sharp tests aren't unknown news.
However, they are dubious tests, as very expensive helmets Shoei for example, come out with really low ratings, as opposed to Shark for example.
Just because a more expensive helmet gets a worse score doesn't mean the test are dubious. If the test method was changed slightly and the more expensive helmet scored better, would the test still be dubious or would it suddenly be correct?
Test are just tests - simple and quantifiable. What may be dubious is how well the tests relate to real world crashes.
My shoei qwest is 5 star, and it was expensive
Test are just tests - simple and quantifiable. What may be dubious is how well the tests relate to real world crashes.
There was a piece written about this a while ago by the people who produced the stats for the Sharp people to develop their tests from. They basically said the testers misinterpreted their figures and results which meant they devised tests that bore little relation to road accidents.
I ignore Sharp tests altogether, they mean nothing when a 50 quid cheapie thermoplastic lid scores more stars than an Arai that has had millions of pounds worth of development and 30 years of experience of making the best helmets in the world thrown at it.
beabert
24-07-11, 09:01 PM
Well until there are tests to prove the above, if i was buying for safety then the sharp test is the only thing i have to differentiate between helmets currently.
I buy for comfort and cost myself.
andrewsmith
24-07-11, 09:15 PM
There was a piece written about this a while ago by the people who produced the stats for the Sharp people to develop their tests from. They basically said the testers misinterpreted their figures and results which meant they devised tests that bore little relation to road accidents.
I ignore Sharp tests altogether, they mean nothing when a 50 quid cheapie thermoplastic lid scores more stars than an Arai that has had millions of pounds worth of development and 30 years of experience of making the best helmets in the world thrown at it.
As lozzo.
Nolan/ Xlite are the only manufacturer that don't supply lids for the test.
Again I'd rather trust my knowledge of the lids and buy a X701 (A 5 year+ design) over a £50 thermoplastic lid
As lozzo.
Nolan/ Xlite are the only manufacturer that don't supply lids for the test.
AFAIK all the helmets used in the SHARP test are bought via retail outlets to prevent any "special" ones being supplied by manufacturers.
Well until there are tests to prove the above, if i was buying for safety then the sharp test is the only thing i have to differentiate between helmets currently.
I buy for comfort and cost myself.
Do you honestly think the manufacturer of a 50 quid lid will go to any great lengths to make their helmet safer than an Arai or Shoei? There just isn't enough profit in cheap helmets to fund that sort of development. They can make them to pass a certain safety test and still make money, but getting them to exceed that test standard by a huge margin like an Arai or Shoei does costs huge figures that they just can't afford.
The UK is the only market that uses the Sharp test and Europe is the only market that has ECER22-05 as their minimum standard. In USA they have Snell and DOT, with Snell being the higher standard. DOT approved helmets are basic and usually very cheap and this is the minimum standard a helmet must be approved to for use on the street in those US states that require one to be worn - The Snell Memorial Foundation is a voluntary non-profit organisation whose approved helmets are tested to much much higher levels. Cheap helmets in USA never manage to pass Snell standards, they can only reach DOT standards. Many other markets around the world have adopted the Snell standard as their country's legal minimum approval limit, it exceeds the old British Standard by a fair margin, and makes ECER22-05 look like a joke yet strangely enough helmets such as Arai and Shoei which exceed Snell safety standards don't score highly in Sharp tests. USA is the most litigious country in the world and where safety equipment is concerned they don't muck about because people over there will sue if they think a piece of safety equipment has failed and cost someone their life.
Manufacturers testing to ECER22-05 and DOT use the honour method of testing - this means they tell the authorities they've tested their own helmets and the authorities say "yes you can have a ECER22-05/DOT sticker on them". They don't even have to prove the helmet passed the tests and in many cases in USA they don't even have to keep records or reports, they just have to inform. Some testing is done by the authorities, but very little and most of that is done to try and eliminate the 'beanie' helmets that have become popular with some cruiser riders as a helmet law protest. I knew about this when I worked for Nitro, who do actually test all their shells/helmets at an independent lab in Britain... and they keep records and reports.
When it comes to buying a helmet I'd go for the tried and trusted well developed option every day, there's no way I'd take something as random and reputedly flawed as Sharp tests as a guideline to which is safer. Cost comes into it, so I'd rather buy the better manufacturer's entry level helmet than the top of the range from the budget manufacturer.
I've sold budget lids in their thousands for Nitro and I've retailed Arai and Shoei, you just cannot compare the cheaper lids with the quality of the more costly.
Have a look at these links for more info on testing and safety standards.
http://www.araihelmet-europe.com/2009/RX-7GP%20Movie/images/intro_01.html
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/dot
Hope this clears some points up
metalangel
25-07-11, 05:36 AM
Thanks for the Snell link, a very informative site.
It also provides this sig-worthy rule to live by:
"The Foundation recommends that if you are participating in an activity that requires that you wear a helmet, you avoid hitting stuff with your head."
[QUOTE=Lozzo;2578432]Do you honestly think the manufacturer of a 50 quid lid will go to any great lengths to make their helmet safer than an Arai or Shoei? There just isn't enough profit in cheap helmets to fund that sort of development. They can make them to pass a certain safety test and still make money, but getting them to exceed that test standard by a huge margin like an Arai or Shoei does costs huge figures that they just can't afford.
[quote]
The quality of materials and definitely the price of the badge can go a long way to explaining the price difference. In many cases cheap helmets tend not to last as long as the more expensive ones, the liner falls apart, the visor mechanisms break etc. That doesn't mean the protection of a cheap helmet in good condition is any worse.
There are plenty of cheap helmets that score badly in the SHARP tests. People seem to get hung up on the fact that some of the more budget helmets score better than some of the more expensive options and then use this as evidence that the entire test invalid. IMO this is just as bad as suggesting the tests are perfect and completely representative of real life situations.
Lots of good info in this article (http://bikes.no-ip.info/helmetindex.html) which suggests that whilst Snell is a tough standard to pass, it may not result in particularly safe helmets.
dizzyblonde
25-07-11, 07:41 AM
Just because a more expensive helmet gets a worse score doesn't mean the test are dubious. If the test method was changed slightly and the more expensive helmet scored better, would the test still be dubious or would it suddenly be correct?
See below
Test are just tests - simple and quantifiable. What may be dubious is how well the tests relate to real world crashes.
Thanks for putting my post better explained:cool:
When it comes to buying a helmet I'd go for the tried and trusted well developed option every day, there's no way I'd take something as random and reputedly flawed as Sharp tests as a guideline to which is safer. Cost comes into it, so I'd rather buy the better manufacturer's entry level helmet than the top of the range from the budget manufacturer.
I've sold budget lids in their thousands for Nitro and I've retailed Arai and Shoei, you just cannot compare the cheaper lids with the quality of the more costly.
As I've said I've always gone for Sharks, as they are exceptionally 'safe' for the price, and my bonce has bounced tarmac in one. I pay -£150. I only went for HJC, as I needed a lid that day for £150, as the chin piece internals had come unstuck in my Shark, and all the polystrene had decided to disintegrate.:mad:
Pete wears Shoei's, and hes quite impressed with the HJC for such a cheap lid, wether it compares further in our relationship......we shall see!
It was said during the inspection of the HJC, the bloke said they were one of the best selling in the US, don't know if that makes a difference, but it fit my head, so it was bought! I didn't know how low in the Sharp test they came until I got home.
Funy enough my first lid was a Nitro, bloody weighed a tonne.
timwilky
25-07-11, 08:06 AM
I have had two friends killed because of helmet failures. ~One led directly to the banning of chin cups when his helmet left his head as he slid down the road. The second was found at the side of the road his bike still running, his helmet on his head but with severe brain injuries.
This meant I always wear the best helmet I can afford. In the 70s when there were no real purpose designed motorcycle helmets, I used my Bell that I had for testing cars. I have woke up wearing a Shoei with massive impact damage to the back/top where I hit the pavement having been taken out from behind. (Not your typical accident).
After that I needed a new helmet to test ride a couple of bikes and not being confident that I ever would return bought a cheap box helmet for £50.
Terrible it didn't last a year before the lining disintegrated. rain would run down the inside of the visor. Thank god I got another Shoei.
Do I trust the Sharp tests. No. They are useful but fail to tell the whole story. Do your own research and decide. I know what i would prefer on my bonce when things go tits up.
Chris Bird
25-07-11, 08:11 AM
The information that I regurgitated at the start of this thread came the police crash investigators who run the Performance plus riding day at Cadwell Park (Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership)
Their view was that the SHARP rating is total dump! I'll bullet pint their views:
-The manufactures of the cheaper helmets build their products for the test. As in they, know where the test points are on the helmet and they re-inforce those few areas, while the rest of the helmet is pretty much forgotten about.
-The SHARP system tests at 1 impact of 18 mph, but we don't crash at 18 mph. And the helmet take more than one impact.
-The outer shell of the cheaper lids are made of thermoplastic. Brilliant, they pass the test at 1 impact of 18mph. But what happens to plastic under heavy impact? It cracks! So after this 1 impact the helmet has lost all of its structural integrity and any successive impacts cause the helmet to quite literally fall apart and come away from your head. You may as well build your own helmet out of lego.
-They showed us a picture of one of these thermoplastic lids after a real world crash. I only wish I could find another if only to show people. It was horrific. The helmet was in pieces after a 30 mph off. The man died!
-If he were wearing a better constructed helmet, where the shell would have been a fibre composite. He probably would have survived. Yes the hard plastic shell my still crack but the multitude of fibres keep the helmet in tact...
I will never buy a cheapo helmet again. Yes there's certain instances where no matter what helmet you wear, you probably wont walk away but to massively reduce your chances of survival for the sake of money... ludicrous.
If you don't want to spend the amount of money it costs to buy an arai or something like that, at the very least, please do not buy a thermoplastic helmet. Ask the guy selling it to you. And if he can't tell you the answer, walk away.
Another point they made is massively reduced in price helmets you can buy form the big shows.
They say don't bother. These helmets are rejects for some reason, and somewhere in some horrible small print it will say not for road use!
andrewsmith
25-07-11, 08:24 AM
AFAIK all the helmets used in the SHARP test are bought via retail outlets to prevent any "special" ones being supplied by manufacturers.
stand corrected on that point!
My point is same as lozzos TBH, but not in that much detail. :notworthy:
Mods any chance of stick for this one!!!
dizzyblonde
25-07-11, 12:04 PM
Another point they made is massively reduced in price helmets you can buy form the big shows.
They say don't bother. These helmets are rejects for some reason, and somewhere in some horrible small print it will say not for road use!
Thats a bit of a bold statement there, on what experience have they got this knowledge? Theres an awful lot of big companies whose reputations are at stake, selling helmets at shows. I somehow doubt this statement has true clout IMO.
Now if you were to say, don't buy off the net, because by the time Parcel Farce has got it to you, it won't be suitable for road use.....I could understand!
Petes bought two Shoei's from the NEC, and have been brand spanking new, never out of the box. I somehow doubt that the company whose stand he purchased from would dare to sell an inadequate helmet IMO.
Road safety partnership or not, slanderous comments like that, can get folk into trouble.....and at the same time, no matter how safe they want you to be, can also talk a lot of bullcarp inbetween the good points.
ThEGr33k
25-07-11, 12:06 PM
Ahhh so it was you who was on Cadwell with me. Thought I recognised the bike but never thought to say anything! I was the short **** on the Aprilia falco.
i don't look at ratings or badges when buying lids. i buy one that fits.
Stonesie
25-07-11, 04:21 PM
i don't look at ratings or badges when buying lids. i buy one that fits.
:winner:
Funny thing those Sharp ratings, my old £50 Arashi steel 2, 3 stars.
Schuberth S1 Pro... 2 stars, I don't believe for a moment that the cheapo is a better helmet, for a start it looks like a toy and the internal shape changed within months forceing me to replace it because it was getting painful.
My head is Shoei shaped and I'm very happy with my XR1100, I sometimes forget its on because it's that comfy.
What about Soumy lids? I've only been riding a few years and my Arai Condor is now a bit smashed after my "sorry mate I didn't see you" incident. Not sure what to get next
Stonesie
25-07-11, 04:52 PM
Google "Sharp Test" and you will find it, but do not buy a new lid unless you have tried it on, fit/comfort is the main thing... BTW Arai Condor... 2 stars, but you have tested yours and are still here to tell folk about it so you decide what that star rating is worth in the real world.
Another point they made is massively reduced in price helmets you can buy form the big shows.
They say don't bother. These helmets are rejects for some reason, and somewhere in some horrible small print it will say not for road use!
Whilst I agree with the majority of what you are saying in your post I have to take issue with this point.
I wholesaled helmets to a number of traders who sell helmets at bike shows around the country - one of my biggest customers would spend upwards of £120,000 a year on Nitro helmets and every single one of them was sold at the BMF, Stafford Classic show and other smaller events. He wasn't the only guy doing this, there is a whole industry out there of guys who own a truck and a large lock-up who load up on a Friday and set up stall for the weekend selling helmets cheaply. They can afford to do so because they don't have huge overheads - it's just them and maybe a couple of family members, a truck and a lock-up.
Nitro aren't the only cheap helmets you'll find at shows either, there are loads if you care to look. The guys selling them buy from the same reps who sell to your local George White, Suzuki dealer, Kawasaki dealer or independent bike shop. The helmets are exactly the same as you'll find anywhere else in the country. Only difference is George Whites and the rest of the bike shops don't buy in such bulk and as such don't get the discounts... that's another reason Mr Show-Stand can sell cheaper, he buys £25,000 worth at a time, not £500 or even £1000.
As a sales rep we relied on the guys doing the shows to make us money. When you're on 7% of all turnover you go looking for the guy who'll buy £120,000 of stock a year and you'll look after him and make sure he gets what he orders on time, and you'll be back next month to write another order because that one customer is worth £8400 in commission alone each year. If anything you go looking for another three or four of them to really bring the pennies rolling in. I had three of them on my books, and they earned me alot of money every year.
All of them were buying the same helmets from the same factories that arrived on the same containers as the helmets you could see in local shops. The helmets you see for sale at shows aren't rejects, they aren't seconds, and they aren't faulty in any way.
Thats a bit of a bold statement there, on what experience have they got this knowledge? Theres an awful lot of big companies whose reputations are at stake, selling helmets at shows. I somehow doubt this statement has true clout IMO.
Now if you were to say, don't buy off the net, because by the time Parcel Farce has got it to you, it won't be suitable for road use.....I could understand!
Petes bought two Shoei's from the NEC, and have been brand spanking new, never out of the box. I somehow doubt that the company whose stand he purchased from would dare to sell an inadequate helmet IMO.
Road safety partnership or not, slanderous comments like that, can get folk into trouble.....and at the same time, no matter how safe they want you to be, can also talk a lot of bullcarp inbetween the good points.
See my reply above.
a helmet is only as good as its fit.
i may be totally wrong (if i am can i please be set straight) but i have always been told of 4 thing to look for when buying a lid.
when buying a helmet there are a few things that the sales person should check once you have the helmet on and fasted up properly the first and most important thing is the rear to front pull test. grip the back of the lid at the bottom and pull forwards, if you can pull the lid off its useless no matter how much it costs. second is the nose test, if you can't pull the lid of using the test earlier but the lid slides down and hits your nose that its useless. third is the twist test, if you can twist the lid and it slides about it useless. fourth is the upper test (full face), pull the lid up and backwards using the chin guard, if the lid moves backwards then its useless.
ohhh and when testing the lid for fit don't pussy about with pulling/pushing as in the event of an accident objects wont.
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