View Full Version : Tam's New Bike
After the black SV sold I was left with just the cafe racer in the garage. As it's not the most practical I thought I'd get something sensible - nice pillion comfort for Mrs T, able to carry luggage, do a bit of distance if required. Something reliable and easy to maintain. Maybe a wee bit of tidying up but absolutely NOT another expensive project.
I had a pretty open mind so I was on ebay looking at all bikes below my price limit within 100 miles.
Picked this up tonight. It ticks approximately none of the boxes.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture002.jpg
Ahahahahahahaha. Wooooohooooooo. Hehehehe. :smt043
I'll get some more pics in the daylight. It's a bit rough round the edges.
Feckin goes though. :mrgreen:
DarrenSV650S
08-08-11, 10:38 PM
Niiiiice
Bet that's epic fun 8)
The Guru
09-08-11, 08:10 AM
Cool. At least the seat looks a bit more appealing.
yorkie_chris
09-08-11, 08:57 AM
Bwahahahaha! That's about as close to target as me looking to buy a 250 traillie and getting an XJ900! Ace!
nice pillion comfort for Mrs T, able to carry luggage, do a bit of distance if required. Something reliable and easy to maintain.
:lol:
Looks great :)
What is it :D?
It's a 1992 RGV 250. Two stroke twin. You young 'uns have been denied the joys of new two strokes by the fun police, so I'll give you a summary. :)
It's very light and chuckable. Probably a similar power/weight ratio to the SV but delivers pretty much all the power in the top 3000 revs or so, with a big step at around 8k. It's pretty gutless below those revs but when you hit the power band it just ****s off. Change gear approaching the redline and it drops back to the start of the power band.
bbbruuuuummmRAAAAAAAAA (change gear) RAAAAAAAAAA :p. Keep stirring the box to stay in that rev range and it's utterly mental.
Sounds like an angry wasp. Add plumes of blue smoke (smells like the breath of Angels) and very good brakes.
On the reliability front, these engines were always predisposed to eating themselves and the normal maintenance schedule includes regular rebuilds.
But if you don't wring its neck everywhere and ride it in the powerband as much as possible you're missing the point. I was laughing out loud last night.
I've been a bit nervous on the cafe racer because I didn't want to destroy all the work I'd done and spoil its pretty looks. I'll get over that eventually, but this RGV comes "pre-crashed", didn't cost a load and Comp insurance for me is £60 so I don't have any such worries in the back of my mind. Great fun.
It's got some issues to resolve and when I give it a proper look over I'll probably find some more. Winter project sorted.
johnmaciver32
09-08-11, 10:58 AM
Fantastic bikes, had so much fun with one of them many years ago..
sent using tapatalk
Fantastic bikes, had so much fun with one of them many years ago..
Aye John. I think the last time I rode a two stroke they were rioting in Tottenham.
If you look up "mid-life crisis" in the encyclopedia there's probably a picture of me on this bike. :D
squirrel_hunter
09-08-11, 11:30 AM
Picked this up tonight. It ticks approximately none of the boxes.
Sir, I salute your style.
Out of interest which model is it as I can't tell from the photo? Also Practical Sports Bikes had a RGV250 rebuild over the past few issues, could have some tips in there for you depending what you're intentions are...
Owenski
09-08-11, 11:32 AM
lubberellyyy!
dizzyblonde
09-08-11, 11:35 AM
It's got some issues to resolve and when I give it a proper look over I'll probably find some more. Winter project sorted.
But don't all two strokes have issues...I've spent more times watching them being stripped down and rebuilt than on the road!
Sir, I salute your style.
Out of interest which model is it as I can't tell from the photo? Also Practical Sports Bikes had a RGV250 rebuild over the past few issues, could have some tips in there for you depending what you're intentions are...
VJ22 N (I think - need to double check tonight though). The exhaust is probably throwing you. It's got a Tyga side by side system rather than the double barrel exhaust that was standard.
Looks like I might need some PSB back issues :). The gearbox needs some work - it's slipping out of second. It's done 20,000 miles and we don't know when or if it's had a top end rebuild so I at least need to have a look at that.
The cosmetic stuff I don't think I'll bother with and I'm certainly not looking at any upgrades at the moment. I'm thinking if I can make sure it's mechanically sound, if a bit untidy, it would probably make a nice project for someone else when I sell it on. The vain hope is I can have a bit of a laugh, do some engine work, and move it on in a year or so without it owing me anything.
tactcom7
09-08-11, 06:18 PM
Looks loverly mate, get some more pics up :) reminds me of my first bike (a bit) NSR125, only faster hehe Gotta love that two stroke scream/smell.
Wideboy
09-08-11, 07:11 PM
jealous :(
andrewsmith
09-08-11, 08:13 PM
Nice Tam!!
What you get it for btw?
Bwahahahaha! That's about as close to target as me looking to buy a 250 traillie and getting an XJ900! Ace!
That makes that even funnier.
Specialone
09-08-11, 08:58 PM
Nice Tam :)
DarrenSV650S
09-08-11, 09:07 PM
Check the front sprocket is tight!!!!
get some more pics up .
Oops. That was the plan for tonight but I seem to have taken it apart instead.
I was making a list of bits and pieces that needed doing and before I knew what was happening I was up to my elbows in it. :D
I didn't want to get into that right now so I'll put it back together and do a basic service for now. More pics for the weekend so you can see all the bad bits. :p
On the bright side, the frame looks sound and the engine's clean. There was a wee spot of oil on the floor under the sprocket cover but the chain is very wet (lubed with engine oil) so I'm hoping that's all it is.
Nice Tam!!
What you get it for btw?
£1,200. £200 more than I wanted to go but I got into a Saturday night Ebay battle. :rolleyes:
Not too bad though if everything continues to check out OK.
geeez a shot Mr..
nice one Tam :-)
Fruity-ya-ya
10-08-11, 06:06 PM
jealous :(
Yarp, +1, looks mint - nice ebuying.
Miss my old RGV now. Wish I had repaired the powervalves instead of selling it. H915 CMK if anyone knows of it's whereabouts?
littleoldman2
10-08-11, 07:10 PM
Very nice Tam
danf1234
10-08-11, 09:15 PM
Tam,
What have you done lol! I will PM you a site that will make your eyes water. You have a fine 1992 VJ22 there mate. The one with the banana swing arm are quite sort after.
I am a self taught expert on these bikes lol, so if you want a hand with anything let me know.
First job, check the power valves. If they fail they take the engine with it.
Have a look at this site http://www.rgv250.co.uk/ . it will tell you everything you need to know!
They are mental fast aren't they?
Also mate if they are the stainless Tyga's they are worth £600 alone. I know cos I bought some for mine!
I tracked the oil leak down. Once I got under the bike with the fairings off I could see the oil has been dripping on to the exhaust and then running off the lowest point. It's coming from the exhaust at both cylinders.
Neither of the leaks is serious so nothing much to worry about. Both headers are missing a spring each so that was something else for the list.
More pics;
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture006.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture003.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture012.jpg
The wheels and discs have been tarted up recently. Calipers and forks look good too.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture010.jpg
No rust to speak of. There's a wee bit on the rear subframe - just surface stuff. Wire brush and Hammerite will sort that.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture005.jpg
There's a bit of wear on the fairings but nothing major. Unfortunately the Lucky Strike decals on the lowers have been thrown on from a distance. :rolleyes:
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture004.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture008.jpg
andrewsmith
10-08-11, 09:30 PM
Nice!
That looks like heat damage Tam
Replacements aren't hard to find! Found JPS replica stickers for a GSXR 400 in a hour.
I would get a set of custom reps made by PT6 someone similar
Tam,
What have you done lol! I will PM you a site that will make your eyes water. You have a fine 1992 VJ22 there mate. The one with the banana swing arm are quite sort after.
I am a self taught expert on these bikes lol, so if you want a hand with anything let me know.
First job, check the power valves. If they fail they take the engine with it.
Have a look at this site http://www.rgv250.co.uk/ . it will tell you everything you need to know!
They are mental fast aren't they?
Also mate if they are the stainless Tyga's they are worth £600 alone. I know cos I bought some for mine!
Get away from me Dan. You've already been a bad influence. :p
Cheers though, I might need to lean on you for info once I get into the stripdown.
I don't intend to do too many miles on it just now aside from getting it MOT'd and then I'm going to strip it down and check it out. There's no service history on it at all and it's had nothing done on the engine for 5 or 6 years - although it's only done about 1,000 miles in that time.
The previous owner said the lad he bought it from said it had some engine tuning done. Might be BS but you never know, I might find some goodies in there. [-o<
Not the stainless pipes unfortunately, just mild steel. But they've been kept in good condition by the coating of oil on them. :p
danf1234
10-08-11, 09:50 PM
Tam,
The oil leak is common with Tyga's if you don't fit a new suzuki OEM crush washer. They don't come with the kit on the tyga's so most people done bother. Without them they will leak oil. I got a set of brand new ones on my Tyga's and mine don't leak at all.
DarrenSV650S
10-08-11, 10:05 PM
mmmmmm I want a shot. I miss the 2 stroke buzz. :D Is that rear brake line meant to be that long?
oh and did I mention..... check the front sprocket!!
I wondered about the brake line. Doesn't look right does it?
What's the skinny on the front sprocket? I haven't checked it but I'm getting the feeling that I should. ;)
DarrenSV650S
10-08-11, 10:31 PM
Looks like it needs a different angle banjo maybe? Dunno
If the sprocket is like the tzr it will be held on with a clip. Mine decided to fall off one day and got jammed on the swingarm, locking the back wheel. Next thing I know I'm in hospital saying "what happened?" over and over lol
Oh right. That's worth a look then.
I didn't mention, I got a free paddock stand thrown in with the bike, a bag of bits (including a couple of standard indies, new rear pads) and this nice piece of garage art. It's a limited edition print of Schwantz v Doohan.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/Picture.jpg
Oooo just seen this =P~ very nice mate! I learned to ride on strokers you can't beat the noise/smell!
Funnily enough I was in my local(ish) dealer the other day and saw this (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201125393733332/sort/priceasc/usedbikes/cc-from/125cc/model/rs/make/aprilia/quicksearch/true/page/2/postcode/l398sj/radius/100?logcode=p). Its not quite mint and it has slightly higher mileage than i'd like but it's 1 of the bikes i've always dreamt of owning since I was a kid! Only problem was my other half was with me when I spotted it. She's now on high alert for any new additions to the garage ;)
littleoldman2
11-08-11, 03:53 PM
She's now on high alert for any new additions to the garage :wink:
Last time this happened to me, my beloved said "thats 4 now, what do you need 4 for. You can only ride one at once". I replied look in the wardrobe at all those shoes you can only wear one pair at once. It didn't seem to help.
£1,200. £200 more than I wanted to go but I got into a Saturday night Ebay battle. :rolleyes:
Not too bad though if everything continues to check out OK.
on the plus side they seem to be going up in value, there seems to be a big revival in 2 strokes at the mo.
I had a 1990 model myself, superb fun, but the threat of a looming engine rebuild made me get rid, although at the price you paid you cant go wrong really.
The only thing I can pass on is to check the power valve covers. Oil gets into them and pressure builds forcing oil through the gaskets. They need draining every now and then. Have you got a manual? Got one on disc if you want it?
on the plus side they seem to be going up in value, there seems to be a big revival in 2 strokes at the mo.
I had a 1990 model myself, superb fun, but the threat of a looming engine rebuild made me get rid, although at the price you paid you cant go wrong really.
It was a bit of a chance buying it on the strength of photos but I'm pretty happy. If the engine exploded tomorrow I could break the bike and get most of my money back.
In fact, Dan sent me a link to all sorts of two stroke tuning goodies you'd sell a kidney for so it'll only really cost me money if it DOESN'T explode. :p
The only thing I can pass on is to check the power valve covers. Oil gets into them and pressure builds forcing oil through the gaskets. They need draining every now and then. Have you got a manual? Got one on disc if you want it?
Cheers, I've got a hard copy of the manual on the way.
On the bright side, I was leafing through the old MOT's and came across a receipt for a carb strip and check of the powervalves. It was 2006 but it's only done just over 1,000 miles since then. Alot can happen in 5 years so I'll be checking again as soon as I get the manual, but it gives a wee bit of reassurance.
I'm sure it won't explode. I ran mine with a broken powervalve. The main part had snapped and let the valve loose, it was banging against the piston and filed itself to about a quater of it's normal size before I found it. Had taken it back to where I bought it and they said nothing was wrong! After that I sold it as I couldn't afford the rebuild. Really miss it now, got to over a ton and was still pulling!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg268/kenzie2k3/Kodakphotos9.jpg
danf1234
12-08-11, 01:36 PM
With billet machined heads and billet powervalves mine shows an idicated 125-7ish.
It's all coming together (or rather, apart) quite nicely :).
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/900380f8.jpg
I've had to drill out a few bolts - both LH rearset mounting bolts and one on the front powervalve cover. There's another one still to do on the clutch cover, so I can pull the gearbox and check the 2nd gear slipping problems.
Pistons and powervalves all look good. Wheel and chassis bearings are fine (although the latter had rusty gunk instead of grease) and everythings pretty straight. I've sorted out some untidy wiring issues and just need to put it all back together (with new bolts :)).
I've got a leak of 2 stroke oil I need to track down but apart from that it still seems OK and it's not owing me much at the moment.
hindle8907
28-09-11, 03:40 PM
hahah step ladders. quality .
andrewsmith
28-09-11, 06:07 PM
hahah step ladders. quality .
Tam how many rebuilds this way?
Still make me chuckle when a see it
Nowt wrong with the "ladder lift" :D.
Anyway, I'm getting all fancy. I've got a proper headstock stand these days so I've retired the old bird table...
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/SV%20Project/23062010295.jpg
Love it - will follow this thread with interest as I would love to do this but have no skill or money :)
As I've said, the bike was slipping out of 2nd gear under load so I've pulled the gearbox to check it out. It's a known problem with the RGV - usually caused by excessive wear on the dogs where 2nd and 6th mesh together.
I've never removed a gearbox before and I think this was a good one to start with. It's a cassette style box so no need to remove the engine.
Clutch cover off, remove the 6 bolts and springs then slide the clutch pack out.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0642.jpg
Break out the special tool - clutch holder from ebay - so I can get the centre nut off.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0644.jpg
Clutch basket out and kickstart mechanism removed, then undo the 6 nuts around the gearbox case.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0648.jpg
Quick tap on the sprocket drive from the other side with a rubber mallet (after removing the sprocket and circlips) and the box slides out.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0649.jpg
There's a bit more to it than that, but not much. Pretty straightforward.
One gearbox on the bench.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0650.jpg
If at this point, if you don't spend some time twiddling the gears and snicking up and down through the box then you're just weird.
After dismantling the gears, and keeping the worlds supply of washers and circlips in the right order, I can start inspecting for excessive wear.
Sometimes it's hard to judge what is too much wear. Sometimes it isn't.
This is "too much". :)
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/IMG_0661.jpg
I need new 2nd and 6th driven gears plus a selector fork which was worn beyond spec. That should be it sorted.
Then it needs to go back in, which will likely be the trickier part.
Specialone
05-10-11, 05:56 AM
Good work Tam :)
Loving the new sig btw.........................not !!!
andrewsmith
05-10-11, 06:45 AM
Thats a bit excessive.
Out of curiousity, is it new OEMs or patterns you've getting hold of?
Not sure at the moment - mulling it over. In this case, aftermarket gears are better but more expensive. It's not often that the OEM parts are cheaper.
danf1234
06-10-11, 07:47 PM
Tam,
I haven't forgot about this, but I am going through a separation with the wife and my Bike is still at home in my garage. Don't worry it's safe lol. Do you still need a piccy of my crank case?
SpikeTM
06-10-11, 08:56 PM
if ya need any help Tam gimme a hollar i served my time on these babies :)
andrewsmith
06-10-11, 08:58 PM
Tam,
I haven't forgot about this, but I am going through a separation with the wife and my Bike is still at home in my garage. Don't worry it's safe lol. Do you still need a piccy of my crank case?
I dearn't ask the Q
Tam, what you looking at for budget for the whole project?
thats not massive tooth ware.....
this is.....
http://www1.webng.com/richiesv/rebuild1/rebuild/images/rebuild%20(3).jpg
my old K3 SV650.... Cheers Northwind for the donor box again :0)
the full damage was this ...
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6308/enginegearboxcopyyy9.jpg
littleoldman2
06-10-11, 10:15 PM
So lets all guess who ragged that gearbox into submission:p
Tam,
I haven't forgot about this, but I am going through a separation with the wife and my Bike is still at home in my garage. Don't worry it's safe lol. Do you still need a piccy of my crank case?
Sorry to hear that mate. Don't worry about the pics - I reckon that wee gaps a bit of a red herring anyway. I just need to get systematic looking for the leak and stop distracting myself with more interesting jobs.
if ya need any help Tam gimme a hollar i served my time on these babies :)
How are you at finding oil leaks? :p
I'm getting a couple of drips of clean 2 stroke oil off the bottom the crankcase where the two halves join. If it was from the PV area it would be black. I assume it wouldn't be totally clean if it was the case itself that was leaking?
If that's the case then I'm thinking it has to be the check valves or a split oil feed pipe. I've dusted those areas to see what I can see and then go from there. Any other ideas welcome though. :)
I dearn't ask the Q
Tam, what you looking at for budget for the whole project?
Depends what I do with the gearbox - there's £200 between going standard or upgrading so I need to decide how long I'm likely to keep the bike. If I'm going to keep it the upgrade would be worthwhile - you can get a replacement 2nd & 6th with a better design on the dogs so you don't get the same problem. 2nd is a bit taller so you combine it with a taller 1st gear too. That would be worth doing - as standard, 1st gear is just something to put below neutral :p. You've only travelled about 12 feet before the revs run out.
I've stuck the box away for later, now that I know for sure what it needs, and see what else crops up. :)
I can see why these things turn into a money pit. I was saying to Dan a wee while ago that I'd told my wife I wouldn't be modifying this bike. Of course, she doesn't know how much it costs just to keep these bloody things standard. :rolleyes:
thats not massive tooth ware.....
this is.....
:shock:
lol. You win.
SpikeTM
06-10-11, 10:37 PM
Oil feed pipes were prone for perishing on them m8 so u could be on the right tracks if you get stuck just let me know i can nip in after work one night or some day i'm off your only 5 mins doon the road anyway.
andrewsmith
07-10-11, 06:15 AM
:shock:
lol. You win.
Clutchless downshifts Richie?
It really is starting to look like the oil leak I've been tracing is coming from the join where the crankcase halves meet. There's stainless button head bolts in the cases which seems a sure sign it's been opened up before so they maybe didn't use the correct sealant. Hopefully it's nothing more sinister than that, but dismantling the engine will no doubt throw up a few more things that want replacing. :rolleyes:
So it looks like the next job will be dropping the engine and splitting the cases. Fortunately, 2 stroke engines are very simple. Unfortunately, you can't see it for all this complicated **** on top. :)
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/ece89c84.jpg
I'm now pottering about, putting off the engine drop. :p
The rear subframe is back on though. It was rusty in places and everything was generally a bit grungy.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/2bf3ff99.jpg
Took all the rust off and sprayed with Smooth Silver Hammerite.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/a49842c7.jpg
And everything back in, all cleaned up. :cool:
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/9b7537b4.jpg
It took a wee while to get everything in properly. There's a lot of wiring in the tail and then you've got the oil and coolant tank pipes and the remote res for the shock that all need to be routed and secured.
Nice improvement in appearance though (even though no-one will see it when the bodywork's on). :rolleyes:
Engine's still leaking.....
Engine's still leaking.....
haha :D
andrewsmith
13-10-11, 01:22 PM
Tam
Bite the bullet, Grab the bull by the horns and crack on with the Loom of doom
Nice to see people still playing with 2T's! This one looks like a very worthwhile investment indeed. Will have to get myself a toy like this at somepoint when i have room in the garage and spare money in the pot ( so probably around 2031!)
Watching this with interest :)
danf1234
16-10-11, 09:24 AM
Tam,
It is a tw6t of a job to drop the engine. Its all the carbs, oil hose, air box etc on top that make it difficult. You will need something to drop it on to. I was recommended a trolley jack and a flat piece of board. It is really is to shear / break the back engine mounting so be careful when you do it.
In other news, the front brake calipers are nice and clean. :D
Tam,
It is a tw6t of a job to drop the engine. Its all the carbs, oil hose, air box etc on top that make it difficult. You will need something to drop it on to. I was recommended a trolley jack and a flat piece of board. It is really is to shear / break the back engine mounting so be careful when you do it.
It actually starts to look a lot more straightforward even with just the carbs out. I'd had a good look round and was going to borrow a trolley jack today for the job.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/a2a2df56.jpg
However....I got myself some back issues of Practical Sportsbikes after squirrel_hunter mentioned their RGV build and was having a read of the engine rebuild in there. The chap mentioned the torque setting for the 6mm crankcase bolts is 1.3Nm. These are the bolts that have been replaced on my bike with stainless button heads.
That torque setting got me thinking. Not only do I not own a torque wrench capable of such a low setting, I couldn't believe that Suzuki had specified finger tight case bolts.
I had a look in the engine section of the Suzuki manual and, sure enough, the setting is recorded as 0.9-1.3Nm. A quick look in the back of the manual, where all the torque settings are listed, revealed the mistake.
The correct torque is 9-13Nm. There's a misprint in the manual that mixes up Nm with kg-m.
So I decided it was worthwhile checking those bolts as someone might have made the same mistake. Sure enough, the bolts had absolutely nowt on them. They also weren't very long - they were only into about 25% of the available thread.
I replaced them with something closer to the right size and nipped them up to 10Nm. Left for a day and a half and there was no more oil leak. Backed them off - oil leak. Nipped up again - no leak.
:rave:
danf1234
16-10-11, 01:52 PM
Glad you got it sorted!
Are you going to do an engine rebuild if you drop it out. I replaced the powervalves, put new Pistons in, and replaced the heads with Machined billet jobs. The replacement heads are machined for O-Rings whichs saves a a fortune on gaskets if you strip and rebuild a lot.
I also fitted Tyga drain covers to reduce the need to have to take the cover off. They just drain into a bottle now and all I have to do is empty the bottle!
The powervalves and pistons have had a cursory inspection but I really need to get the powervalves out and barrels off to clean up and check/measure everything. It looks like it's possible to do that with the engine in the frame but access is tight on the top cylinder.
It would probably be easier just to drop the engine. Half an hour doing that now would probably save an hour of swearing and skinned knuckles later.
New powervalves, billet heads and kit covers would be nice, but they're not in the budget for this one. :)
carelesschucca
20-10-11, 10:29 PM
I've just spotted this have I ever told you that I hate you and will continue to hate you till this bike is fixed and you let me have a little shot of it...
I'm not jealous in any way shape or form.
littleoldman2
20-10-11, 10:36 PM
I've just spotted this have I ever told you that I hate you and will continue to hate you till this bike is fixed and you let me have a little shot of it...
I'm not jealous in any way shape or form.
I'm well jealous me like
Lovely looking bike, can I have a go!? :D never ridden a quick 2 stroke before! :(
It'll be a wee while before anyone gets a shot, including me. :rolleyes:
It turns out the oil leak isn't fixed, although it has reduced from a pronounced leak to a bit of a slow seepage - from two drips a day to one drip a week.
So the engine will be getting dropped in the next few days. The barrels need to come off to split the cases so it means everything gets a proper check (and will no doubt be found to be sub-standard and require replacement at great expense).
Bye bye budget :smt039.
Pictures of blackened oily things to follow. :)
It's out.
Dead easy as it happens. I had the trolley jack but I could have lifted it out by hand. Having the gearbox out probably helped but there's no weight in the engine at all.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/19daaa55.jpg
And how many bottles of san miguel did you consume? ;)
andrewsmith
22-10-11, 06:15 PM
looking good!
Cases being split?
And how many bottles of san miguel did you consume? ;)
Just one post-removal beer. :)
looking good!
Cases being split?
Yep. Which involves stripping the lot down.
I've taken the cylinder heads off and then decided to tackle the Powervalves.
The retaining screws are put in with permanent threadlock. Worse, they're standard Suzuki crosshead screws of cheese - adds up to a recipe for disaster. I got all three out no problem on the first cylinder with a wee bit of heat and an impact driver.
Getting a bit cocky, I started on the first screw on the second cylinder. Thought I'd got an 1/8th of a turn with the impact driver so carried on without taking a look. You guessed it - totally mullared the head of the screw.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/6395afde.jpg
No panic - I'd half expected this. I took out the pulley shaft and lifter to make a bit more room and then broke out the drill and left handed bit.
By the time I'd drilled nearly half-way through the bolt without it biting I was getting nervous. The powervalve housing is a cast part of the barrel so getting that screw out without damaging the threads was my only option.
Had a go at the other 2 screws with the impact driver and got them out no problem.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/c787600a.jpg
Lots of black gold in there - and that's the cleaner of the two.
In a rare moment of clear thinking I decided to try tapping an allen bit into the hole I'd drilled. I had to use a screwdriver bit as there was no clearance for the allen socket I wanted to use. I've got a wee adapter for the screwdriver bits that I can get a 10mm spanner onto.
Worked a bloody treat. Screw came straight out and I could then withdraw the powervalves ( had to give them a tickle with a finger up the exhaust port to loosen them off - this seemed very wrong somehow). :D
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/7290aeac.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/64a4e137.jpg
This is the various bits from one cylinder's power valves, with associated baked on carbon deposits.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/55010c20.jpg
And one pair of valves cleaned up.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/cb5e4395.jpg
littleoldman2
25-10-11, 10:43 AM
Nice work Tam
The cases are back together. I used Threebond 1215 liquid gasket which is the recommended stuff to use.
It's now waiting for all its bits and pieces to be reattached.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/ab9861a9.jpg
The pistons looked OK, but quite worn, and there was some evidence of blow-by.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/93ecf3d2.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/903d9345.jpg
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/d1574738.jpg
I've no idea how long they've been in there, so I've gone with the recommendation of the guys on the RGV forum and will be rebuilding with new pistons. Gives me the maximum length of time before I need to do anything again and means I can wring its neck all next summer without worrying too much. :D
While I'm waiting for lots of new parts to arrive, I gave the frame another good looking over and spotted this on the top shock mount that I hadn't spotted earlier.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/52a634e2.jpg
Here's a closer pic of what looks like the beginnings of a crack. I've sanded it down a bit to make sure it wasn't just a surface defect.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/577be750.jpg
I found these pics posted by a member of the RGV forum and it looks like I've possibly got the beginnings of a similar failure.
http://s1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc447/beef_99bikes/
That could result in some interesting handling characteristics, so I'll take a cautious approach and fit a new piece. It's a removable bracket and not part of the frame so easy enough just to swap it (although I expect those bolts will be a tw*t to get out).
littleoldman2
04-11-11, 03:17 PM
That could result in some interesting handling characteristics, so I'll take a cautious approach and fit a new piece. It's a removable bracket and not part of the frame so easy enough just to swap it (although I expect those bolts will be a tw*t to get out).
Bet it won't be cheap either. Great thread Tam
andrewsmith
04-11-11, 03:50 PM
Job for one of the Org's CNC lad?
Billet parts Tam?
I've just ordered the OEM bracket. It wasn't too bad pricewise - you wouldn't get one made much cheaper. Anyway, with the size of the rest of the order it was a mere bagatelle. :p
No fancy parts, but I've dropped a fair amount of cash on it.
andrewsmith
04-11-11, 04:45 PM
how much so far?
Too much. ;)
Enough to persuade me to delay replacing the car for another few months.
andrewsmith
04-11-11, 07:43 PM
does the better know that yet.
Before bike I'd guess £1,000
You're about right. Mrs T's fine with it. She knows where I am of a night. :)
My mates that play golf or go to the football spend more on their hobbies.
Anyway, keeping screaming 2T's on the road is a noble pursuit. :)
andrewsmith
04-11-11, 09:19 PM
fair enuf mate
Only if I could afford it! I'm watching this with intrest
First collection of new parts rounded up;
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/5231ba18.jpg
2 x pistons, ring sets, small end bearings, gudgeon pins, base gaskets, head gaskets
4 x circlips and thrust washers
4 x powervalve cables
2 x powervalve oil seals
2 x oil check valves
1 x front sprocket and circlip
1 x fairing bolt set
1 x set of domed head studs & gaskets
squirrel_hunter
07-11-11, 01:39 PM
If its not too rude a question, what did that little lot set you back? And what sort of budget are you looking at for this?
The full top end rebuild kit is £250 using all OEM parts. You could do it cheaper with pattern parts (if you wanted to take the chance) but reports are mostly negative - particularly with cheap head gaskets.
The other bits and pieces have pushed this lot closer to £350 but, when you start taking bits off a 19 year old bike - even though they were working OK - you don't want to put some of those bits back on again. Well, I don't. ;) There's some other bits and pieces on the way so I'll probably have spent £400 on the motor.
Alot of this is choice rather than necessity though. The heads and barrels were using a hodge podge of fixings - half nuts/full nuts/flanged/no flange. 12mm, 13mm and 14mm spanners all required. It was working fine so I could have put those rusty nuts back on but I'd rather have it back to standard. It's a cosmetic choice really and that OEM stuff all comes at a price.
Powervalve cables - only 2 were in urgently bad shape but I've decided to change all 4. Powervalve oil seals - they're pennies but I'd be p***ed off if I rebuilt and then had to deal with a leaking powervalve chamber. All those things that cost pennies add up too. :roll:
I'm assembling another set of parts to sort the gearbox, which will cost more than a replacement used box, but I'll end up with something that's much improved on standard.
The only other things so far have been (horrendously expensive) brake seals plus a couple of brake pistons, a new gear lever and a return to stock indies.
In terms of budget, I paid £1,200 for the bike with no service history. In decent condition I'm seeing them go for £2,500. It's service history that seems to make a massive difference in value with these bikes - much more so than with 4 strokes. So, in my head, I don't want to go past the notional "sorted" value of £2,500.
I'll have spent a grand on it by the time the engine's back in the frame. If I was less fussy about certain things I could have done the same work for £500 or £600. I still need to decide what I'm going to do about the bodywork/fairing lowers.
Oh, and I don't count the cost of any new tools in the budget. New tools enhance my life and make me a better person, so don't need to be accounted for. :D
squirrel_hunter
07-11-11, 10:26 PM
Oh, and I don't count the cost of any new tools in the budget. New tools enhance my life and make me a better person, so don't need to be accounted for. :D
True fact.
Got the engine back together without any problems. It was a bit of a faff so I didn't get any photos.
The tricky bit is getting the rings compressed in the right position while sliding the cylinder over the top. There's a couple of pins in the ring grooves where the ring gap has to go - you can see them in this pic of one of the old pistons.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/6b698afe.jpg
When refitting the powervalves I used some allen head bolts in place of the crosshead screws. Should be easier to get out next time hopefully.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/e8984293.jpg
Speaking of new tools - I got this torque wrench spanner to get the cylinder torqued down properly.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/90bdf2c0.jpg
There's a few nuts you can't get a socket onto and this makes it really easy. You need to calculate for the extra lever length and adjust the torque settings down. Worked well.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/841e7039-1.jpg
Onto the gearbox now. Another collection of parts have been gathered.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/f94e439b.jpg
At the top of the pic you can see the new gears. Down 2 teeth on first and 1 tooth on second.
The bike had suffered the common RGV problem of worn dogs where 6th connects with 2nd. The new gears solve that problem. You can see here the dogs on the new 6th are much larger, squarer and with a slight undercut. Nice. :cool:
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/c8004967.jpg
Here's the stuff I took off. I kept all the gears, washers etc in stacks in the order they came off and I've printed off a copy of the exploded diagram from the parts fiche, so I shouldn't go wrong.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad23/tomSV/RGV250/7315c2e8.jpg
DarrenSV650S
13-11-11, 01:33 AM
That torque spanner had me oooh'ing and huh?ing for a while then I read the next bit. Clever stuff :D
We need something like that torque spanner at work for the drive axles on our trains. On some of them the nuts have come loose but you can't get a socket on them and the 3/8" crow foot spanners are opening up trying to hit 99nm.
Where did you get the spanner from? Nice thread btw.
The spanner came from dirtbikexpress.co.uk. 12/14mm was the only size though.
yorkie_chris
14-11-11, 05:40 PM
Put the torque wrench at 90 degrees to spanner :)
I only got a C in physics, so I just followed the instructions :)
muzikill
14-11-11, 08:00 PM
Impressed so far... I was suprised how easy the sv piston heads went back in. The hardest part when fitting the heads back into the cylinders is keeping the rings in the right position when compressing them.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
SpikeTM
14-11-11, 10:51 PM
Tam did you make sure the piston rings were the proper way up as they go on a certain way ?
Cheers, yeah got that. Tiny "T" on each ring to the top.
Just as well too, cause the engine's back in the frame now. :)
Trolley jack? Pah. We don't need no trolley jack.
I'd returned the one I'd borrowed so I lifted the engine in. Sat on the floor to one side of the bike then shuffled my legs under the frame with the engine on my lap. Lifted it up and balanced it on my knee while I slid the bolts in.
Sounds easy if you say it fast. I recommend using a trolley jack. :p
Not so successful was removing the top shock mount. Three bolts came out no bother with a bit of heat and breaker bar. The last one has sheared off about 5mm inside the frame, which is nice. :roll:
I'm busy for the next few days so I've got some time to think about how I'm going to tackle that one. :)
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