Bikesure / Adrain Flux rage!

[ben1989]

I recently insured my sv650 with BikeSure / Adrian flux for a reasonable ~£300 TPFT at my home address in Cambridge and had a phonecall with them just now.

They asked where I was going (as a student) next year, to which I replied Imperial College London.
They then said, "you once had a quote for an NW4 postcode, is that where you'll be living next year?".
Me (taken aback): "Umm no, I haven't sorted a flat yet, that was just a speculative quote months ago to see how much it would increase if I wanted to take the bike"
... "Right, well the underwriters have refused to continue insuring you at your Cambridge address and will be charging you the rate of the NW4 postcode, amounting to £900" ...!!

I argued my case for some time (politely, at first)... I'm living at home in Cambridge, I haven't even found a london flat, I don't know which area I'll be in, I don't know if I'm taking the bike, I may even commute from Cambridge! The random comparethemarket quote I may have made months ago was to feel out how much it's gonna cost, I also had quotes on CBR600RRs but it doesn't mean I've got one!!

I have been completely honest with them, my bike is at my Cambridge address, garaged, IF I move to London and take the bike, I'll of course let them know and they can then charge me triple the price. But how can they charge me for a london postcode I will probably never live at on the basis I once asked for a quote there??

I have now canceled my policy (it was within 14 days so only cost me ~50£ total) and am going to have to try and find another company, but presumably they all have the same quote history.

The moral of the story: never use your real information when getting test quotes on comparison sites!

[Electro]

You should kick off and ask them which address they are going to send the insurance docs to. They cannot speculate as that would make the insurance invalid. I would complain big time.

[Geodude]

You should kick off and ask them which address they are going to send the insurance docs to. They cannot speculate as that would make the insurance invalid. I would complain big time.

+1 that is ridiculous.

[Jayneflakes]

You should kick off and ask them which address they are going to send the insurance docs to. They cannot speculate as that would make the insurance invalid. I would complain big time.

Absolutely. Take your complaint to the highest level and make them aware that you are extremely unhappy. If you still get no where, take it to the Ombudsman.

[ben1989]

Glad it's not just me who finds it bang out of order. After not finding any complaints number or contact details, I sent the following email to adrian flux:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently took out a policy with your company (Reference: <removed>) and received an email today asking for me to contact BikeSure by phone, which I promptly did. During the phonecall it transpired that, ultimately, because I had used a comparison website with a sample London postcode (in order to assess the possibility of taking my bike to London if I move there in October), yourselves now requested that I immediately begin paying the insurance rate of said sample postcode. In fact, the underwriters you were using (Markerstudy) would not cover me at this randomly-selected North London postcode, and another underwriter would be used, at triple the cost of my current policy (from roughly £300 rising to £900).

I am beginning a post-graduate course at Imperial College London on the 3rd of October, but I as yet have no idea if I will be a) living at home in Cambridge and commuting to university (I included commuting on my policy just in case) b) living in London but leaving my bike garaged in Cambridge, where it will be registered and all documentation will be sent or c) move to an area of London and bring the bike, notifying you of my change of address and likely paying an increased premium. For your company to make the assumption that I have decided option c based on a random comparison quote some months ago is entirely unacceptable.

I am appalled that the insurance premium you offer is based entirely on speculation of where I may one day be living. I have no idea which random postcode I entered to obtain an estimate, presumably it was a public building (as residential postcodes aren't findable with google) so it is likely to be an address I could never live at!

The phone operator, after some deliberation, almost insisted that I end the policy as it is within my 14 days 'cooling off' period. I agreed to do this, as the alternative was paying exorbitant London-based insurance premium while my bike and I are living in a quiet Cambridgeshire village. But after some consultation, it appears BikeSure has no legal basis to speculate on where I may one day be living, giving that I can prove my one and only place of residence is the one I have supplied you with. I shall not even be setting foot in London for over a month, and my bike may well never see the city. It goes without saying that if I do move, to London or anywhere else, I will amend my details with yourselves immediately.

I request a considered reply to this issue, and I am entirely ready to take this further if a satisfactory reply is not made. I also request this email be forwarded to a customer service manager, else please provide me with means of contacting a person in such a position.

I await a reply,
B. L. MooreHopefully it gets my anger across without being out-and-out rude... I fully expect a reply passing the buck with "we're just a broker, your underwriter made the decision" etc.

[andrewsmith]

You should kick off and ask them which address they are going to send the insurance docs to. They cannot speculate as that would make the insurance invalid. I would complain big time.

+3

What they were trying to do (speculation from historic speculative information) is ileagal.

Drop TamSV a pm he'll be able to clarify where you stand.

Personally I'd give them a wide berth along with MCE

*runs to avoid MCE rant*

[dizzyblonde]

How on earth can they make an insurance invalid on an address thats other than on the current policy, without
a:your spoken confirmation via telephone, that you are moving to said address
b:your confirmation via a letter from you, as above

If you've supplied a correspondance address, that mirrors the address on the insurance policy for your bike, they should assume as is!


How extremely bizarre, words fail me!

[ben1989]

+3

What they were trying to do (speculation from historic speculative information) is ileagal.

Drop TamSV a pm he'll be able to clarify where you stand.

Personally I'd give them a wide berth along with MCE

*runs to avoid MCE rant*

Ok cheers, I've sent a PM. Hah yeah I had dealings with MCE on my 125, won't be using them again either

How on earth can they make an insurance invalid on an address thats other than on the current policy, without
a:your spoken confirmation via telephone, that you are moving to said address
b:your confirmation via a letter from you, as above

If you've supplied a correspondance address, that mirrors the address on the insurance policy for your bike, they should assume as is!


How extremely bizarre, words fail me!
I completely agree... it seems they've straightout assumed I'm lying and jumped to conclusions. I'm now thinking that I shouldn't have agreed to let them cancel my policy as it weakens my position complaintswise, but they backed me into a corner... cancel now or we take huge deposit x now and huge amount y per month. I can't see them reinstating my policy now.

[Nostrils]

That is bang out of order and perhaps not quite an unique as you might think? Many of us have seen increases over the years, some large enough to question or seek other quotes. My current insurance is based on my bike being garaged at my brother's house, secure, alarmed and anchored (at all time when not in use) in Camberley. When the details of my insurance came back, it stated that the bike would not be insured if stolen within a mile of my actual home address. When I called them, they stated that unless the bike is also garaged, secure etc. is would not be covered - The insurance is cheaper at my bro's and I certainly wouldnt leave the bike in my area anyway, too many chavs lurking the streets at night causing bother.

[dizzyblonde]

When the details of my insurance came back, it stated that the bike would not be insured if stolen within a mile of my actual home address. .


I know in most cases, when the bike is insured and under a roof at your policy address( I say this as people generally use their property rather than someone elses), if it gets nicked within a certain distance from said garage the excess is bumped up. I know in my case its double(or something like that) if its nicked within 200 yards. So, I can't actually park on my drive and leave it.

To be told its not insured if its nicked within a mile of your house rather than your brothers is actually another bizarre thing to do!

It makes you wonder what you are insured for, because after all, you go out on your bike, and can leave it 300 miles away and it may still get stolen, so what the difference between that and a few metres from your house is going to make is anyones guess:confused:

[SuzukiNess]

i'm interested in the outcome of this.. i just cant see how they can assume you arent actually at the address you have stipulated and pushed you into a corner to cancel your policy with threats and then charged you for the cancellation??? wtf.. i'd go straight to the ombudsman.

please let us know how this ends and if the supply any justification for their actions it would be interesting to know...

good luck, hope you win this as you should!

[ben1989]

Cheers for the support! I'll post any reply they give (or paraphrase if they specifically say I can't disclose).

[tinpants]

Keep us posted. I'm interested in the outcome of this. Hope you can get it sorted to your satisfaction.

[dizzyblonde]

I'll call it fleecing and blackmail.

The Ombudsman definately would be your first port of call if they won't back down. Cough up or cancel your premium? Feck that.

[TamSV]

I saw your PM earlier when I was out on the bike and I've been giving it some thought.

It's a strange one with the reference to the previous quote and the situation has been explained badly. There's a few possibilities, but I think the original quote has almost certainly been messed up - what happens now depends on whether it was your error or theirs.

When quoting for students, insurers usually want to know where you're staying during term time. If you're attending a local uni and living at home then it's pretty clear what area you rate the premium on. If you will be staying away from home during term time, many insurers will rate the premium on the highest rated area, whether that's home or the uni area.

I reckon the original quote with Markerstudy didn't take account of the fact that you are studying away from home and your occupation - i.e. student away from home - is an excluded occupation for them.

Can you have a look at the original details on the statement of fact/proposal form and see how your occupation is described? If it says Student (at home) or something similar then you've made a mistake (albeit unwittingly). Chalk it up and move on. If it says something else, let us know.

It would also be worth looking at the original quotation you put through on the aggregator website (comparetheconfused or whatever) and see what the occupation says there, and what the alternative student occupations are.

Once I know the answers to the above I'll likely have a better idea what's actually happened.

[ben1989]

Right, I see. Thanks for the information. Well after some digging it turns out the comparison website I used was tescocompare, and during their quote process they do not distinguish 'Student (Living at Home)' from 'Student (Living Away)' which I have seen on other comparison sites. (Screenshot attached) However, on inspecting my policy document, it does say "Student - living at home". But this has now left me even more confused, are you saying in order to insure a bike over Summer should I have been insuring it at a false London postcode? Or should I have been able to put "Student - living away"?

As an aside, if I move to London and wanted to leave the bike in Cambridge while still insured (will be returning to Cambridge once in a while and another years ncb would be nice), am I right in thinking, from what you've said, that I would need to pay a premium based on my London address? And presumably if it was then stolen from Cambridge I would have difficulty claiming?

Many thanks for the insurance info.

[TamSV]

I suspected it might be something like that. Although Bikesure have the data from your previous quote they don't trawl all that info as a matter of course looking for discrepancies - there's just too much data. There had to be a reason why they checked it in your particular case.

This seems to be pretty common. The aggregator sites operate with a reduced question set. When that data gets ported over to brokers quote engines, such as Bikesure in this case, any gaps get filled in with assumptions. That's why you need to be careful that you check again all the information on the brokers quote - personally I use the comparison sites first and then put through an entirely new quote on the site of the broker/insurer that I've chosen.

Bikesure are obviously aware of this particular problem so whenever they get a new policy for a student from Tescocompare they check it.

Part of what you've paid will be the brokers fee. I would ask them to waive it in this case as the mistake was caused by a system error they are obviously aware of. If they had fixed that problem you wouldn't be in this situation. How far you want to take that is up to you but the Ombudsman is available if you're not getting anywhere. Complain to Tescocompare too.

In terms of how you insure now, just be totally honest. If you're keeping the bike in Cambridge give that as the garaging address and make sure your status (student living away) is noted correctly. Some insurers won't cover you, some will add a premium loading and someone might rate it on Cambridge. If they need a term-time address (not everyone will) to be able to quote then, yes, you'll need to make it up and then correct it once you've got your accommodation sorted. It's either that or you don't get a quote from that source.

You won't have a problem if the bike's stolen from Cambridge but, when you're checking your new quotes, look out for any restrictions on theft from your London address if it's possible the bike will be there from time to time.

[ben1989]

Cheers TamSV, that's cleared that up then. If the girl on the phone had said anything about me putting "living at home" instead of "living away" it would have saved her some aggro, though in all honesty if I don't find a place in time I could well be living at home. Thanks for the detailed explanation!

[ben1989]

Wow... I don't know if anyone still cares about this but they have reinstated my policy :o

They say that I am to phone them when I know where I will be living. I did offer to do this over the phone, but hey. I'm pretty happy with how that's worked out!

[tom-k6]

just read this and i couldnt beleive it! what was their reasoning?

[TamSV]

Wow... I don't know if anyone still cares about this but they have reinstated my policy :o

They say that I am to phone them when I know where I will be living. I did offer to do this over the phone, but hey. I'm pretty happy with how that's worked out!

Glad you've got it sorted for now - at least Bikesure seem to be dealing with complaints in a reasonable manner.

Did they give an explanation of what happened? I take it you're still with the same underwriter so presumably you'll have the same problem if you do get a London address?

[ben1989]

The response is unapologetic and says that I'm required to inform them if/when I move London. Considering I cancelled the policy (although I didn't want to) I'm surprised they are informing me "it is no longer cancelled". If I'd gone with another company (luckily I waited) I would be in an even bigger mess now!

Glad you've got it sorted for now - at least Bikesure seem to be dealing with complaints in a reasonable manner.

Did they give an explanation of what happened? I take it you're still with the same underwriter so presumably you'll have the same problem if you do get a London address?

Yeah, I've decided not to take the bike now. I will remove commuting from the policy, maybe reduce the mileage and explain that it will be covered and locked down at my Cambridge address. Hopefully they will then not attempt to pull a similar stunt, though I fully expect them to from what the girl on the phone said.

[missyburd]

Considering I cancelled the policy (although I didn't want to) I'm surprised they are informing me "it is no longer cancelled".


So they can do that without consulting you? What if you had decided you weren't happy with them anyway? Bit bloody cheeky.

[dizzyblonde]

Double check it actually has been re-instated, can't be having you riding around illegally! They can as easily burger up that bit as they did for this mess in the first place.

Nice to see you got a U-turn from them :)