Bike Frame - No VIN Number

[Owenski]

I've bought some items from an ebay user who seemingly deals in breaking bikes/scooters etc.

After chatting about airboxes' it became apparent he had a frame available although not yet for sale. I asked for first refusal on the frame and he's obliged, calling me the over the weekend to let me know if I wanted it it was ready for packaging.
I was aware it had no VIN but assumed a reciept or a reg plate must be knocking about somewhere. So chatting about the finer points he informs me the bike was purchased from a police auction as stollen recovered but had already been part stripped, exhaust etc he said were off it before he bought it. Im yet to hear back if he recoreded the engine number or anything but I do know thats also already been sold.

Everything "seems" legit but also stinks of convenience at the same time.

If I buy it is there a way for the frame to be granted a new VIN, even if it means making it a Q plate?

[Owenski]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/Registeringakitcarrebuildorradicallyalteredvehicle/DG_191163

Never mind, answered it myself.

Basically in this instance it can never see the road again, or more importanlty if the police inspect it for any reason, it along with everything bolted too it will be confiscated.

[andrewsmith]

Matt

No VIN means it probably hot as you've found out. Looked at few like that recently and even a breakers yard wouldn't touch them
With a Frame always have the following:

- V5
- chassis no
- Vin plate

Obviously if there wanting a sale they'd have no issues about a HPI check

[Dunn-y]

*they're ;)

[Red Herring]

Not so. There is nothing to stop you putting it back on the road, but you will need to get it registered again. If you know it's a stolen recovered then you should be able to establish the original identity, in which case you can use the original number plate and all you need to do is apply for a V5. If it is suspected stolen, and has been disposed of as such without the police being able to identify it then it's slightly more complicated. Because you can't show when it was manufactured you're going to get a Q plate, and this, along with the registration cost makes it expensive, which for a bike generally isn't worth the difference in cost between a frame with numbers and one without. The other problem with frames with no numbers is that they are often insurance write offs, and the insurance industry knows it.....so getting the finished bike insured is then a problem.

As for the police seizing it that's rubbish. They may well ask you some questions, but providing you have a receipt and proof it's not nicked you shouldn't have any problems. I've got three bikes without any frame numbers, I should know.

[Lozzo]

My RD400F was bought as stolen recovered in 1991, it had no frame number as it had been filed away. The salvage company I bought it from in Thorne, S. Yorks had a record of the original reg number from the insurance company they bought it from, so with that number I applied for a new V5. Once that had come through I carefully restamped the frame number into the frame using the stamps we used to identify our work at my old upper school and one I fashioned myself at home with a die grinder for the start and end marks. I walked in one lunchtime with the frame, receipt and new V5 and asked my old metalwork teacher if I could borrow them for half an hour. Together we made a nice cage to sit the number stamps in and pressed them all in one go using a fly-press to keep them all even, then used my home-made one to do the special ones at each end. Once I'd chucked some black paint over the area you couldn't tell them from original Yamaha ones.

Never had any problems at the two MOTs I've put it through.

[Owenski]

Red and Loz you both support what info I found, tbf you all do.

There wouldn't be a problem if I could:
Provide proof of purchase from a reputable seller,
Provide v5
Provide reg
Provide any form of paper trail of it's origin.
Even been able to cross reference engine numbers against recorded stolen recovered bikes.

With any of the above it would be possible, with more than one it would be even easier. A simple set of forms and a fee, followed by inspection when it's fitted up ready for the road (various elements of this suggest it's an MOT as following the inspection the vehicle is eligible for tax).

Alas this frame was coming with none of those items listed, I even asked him to call the auction house as they'd have proof but he said that didnt help.
So I contemplated many options and played a few scenarios round my head and all of which resulted in me been in serious shizzle if I ever had an accident or for what ever reason had a road side inspection, and so decided best to walk away from this one as the gamble is one I can't afford to lose.

Still a thread with good info and links for if anyone searches the same in the future.

[yorkie_chris]

If it is suspected stolen, and has been disposed of as such without the police being able to identify it

They can dispose of things (well, sell them for profit...) when they're only suspected of being stolen?

[Red Herring]

Either because it was abandoned and they can't find an owner, or because the person they took it off can't provide proof of ownership under certain circumstances (I'd have to get the books out to look up Act etc....)



.....hence Op has made a good call to walk away if the seller can't/won't provide a paper trail.

[SV Mad]

Wasn't it bought originally from a police auction? Surely they must have some record of its history and origin.

[Owenski]

Wasn't it bought originally from a police auction? Surely they must have some record of its history and origin.


Alas this frame was coming with none of those items listed, I even asked him to call the auction house as they'd have proof but he said that didnt help.

Yup, you'd have thought so but in his words "ner mate crnt get anything sorry".

[Red Herring]

Yup, you'd have thought so but in his words "ner mate crnt get anything sorry".

tell me it didn't originally come from a police station......!

[Owenski]

He picked it up at Police Auction thats as much as I know of it.

[yorkie_chris]

If that is literally what he said I'd be leaving it well alone!

[Lozzo]

He picked it up at Police Auction thats as much as I know of it.

Trouble with this sort of thing is this - he could buy one complete Bandit 600, for example, at a police auction with no documentation to verify its identity. From then on he can go out and nick four or five or more similar Bandit 600s and flog the parts from those under the guise of the legit one he bought at auction. As long as he ditches the frames and crankcases from the ones he nicks he can flog bits all day long from as many Bandit 600s as he likes and make out they all came from the one he bought and has a receipt for.

That kinda sucks a bit