WHY?

[dizzyblonde]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/embassy-protesters-burn-us-flag-132118970.html


I ask you.......WHY?

I don't usually post a thread such as this, and I am certainly far away from supporting the views of certain extreme groups......but why, would...

a: The first group be allowed to be so disrespectful and do what they did
b: the second group be moved away, to allow the first group to carry on



:confused:

Discuss

[andrewsmith]

Simples DB

If it was a 'white' English person, we would be arrested immediately.
If its anyone thats an Immigrant or from a non christian religion, its racist to stop their beliefs (even if they are inciting a jihad on Britain). The police and government are way too soft as the people on the ground are scared as the powers aren't in favour to stop it.

My view of this is, if you don't like this country and our religion/ beliefs/ lifestyle p*** back off back your own country (i couldn't give a flying f*** if you were being persecuted in that country)

I've got a couple of friends that are Muslims and openly condone these people (along with most the Pakistani community up here)


*I am not racist in the slightest, but this matter seriously gets my back up

[yorkie_chris]

What I don't like is the police' attitude to it, what's wrong with a bloody good punch up every now and again?


But flag burning aside, you've got to agree the US foreign policies are hardly all lily white and innocent are they...



I have got muslim friends and they all condone these protests and these people

Think you might have your wording a bit wrong there, or an odd choice of friends.

[dizzyblonde]

But they were doing it in front of the US Embassy, to a US flag, on the tenth anniversary of 9/11........so why do it here, and not over there?


Are we really that namby pamby?

[yorkie_chris]

Because these people who disagree with the US live here and it's a long flight to go have a whinge? Because the US police would shoot them and/or supply orange jumpsuit and waterboarding?

[Kenzie]

They do it here because they know if they did it there they would get their arses kicked. This country needs to MTFU and deal with people severly.

[andrewsmith]

What I don't like is the police' attitude to it, what's wrong with a bloody good punch up every now and again?


But flag burning aside, you've got to agree the US foreign policies are hardly all lily white and innocent are they...


Think you might have your wording a bit wrong there, or an odd choice of friends.

Agreed the US are the biggest terrorists and historically the biggest drung smuglers
post edited for clarity


But they were doing it in front of the US Embassy, to a US flag, on the tenth anniversary of 9/11........so why do it here, and not over there?


Are we really that namby pamby?

Most just hate the west DB and we wouldn't touch them.
The Wootton Basset lot we're given police protection as they where almost firebombed and lynched by the everyone paying respect to the fallen.

Because these people who disagree with the US live here and it's a long flight to go have a whinge? Because the US police would shoot them and/or supply orange jumpsuit and waterboarding?

Agreed, the US don't stand for it, neither do the French by all accounts

[yorkie_chris]

They do it here because they know if they did it there they would get their arses kicked. This country needs to MTFU and deal with people severly.

For what? Being a bit of a c***? Not liking America?

I don't like these bloody Johnny Foreigner type savages any more than the next man but the only thing we should be complaining about is that we cannot call them out in such terms without being branded as racists by some silly left-wing public school **** who's never set foot in Bradford.

[Messie]

Simples DB

If it was a 'white' English person, we would be arrested immediately.
If its anyone thats an Immigrant or from a non christian religion, its racist to stop their beliefs (even if they are inciting a jihad on Britain). The police and government are way too soft as the people on the ground are scared as the powers aren't in favour to stop it.

My view of this is, if you don't like this country and our religion/ beliefs/ lifestyle p*** back off back your own country (i couldn't give a flying f*** if you were being persecuted in that country)

I've got a couple of friends that are Muslims and openly condone these people (along with most the Pakistani community up here)


*I am not racist in the slightest, but this matter seriously gets my back up


That is cow poo of the highest order and nothing more than ill informed ranting.
In this country we have a long and proud history of supporting freedom of speech. We allow all sorts of people to show they opinions oabout many things (holding everyone up on motorways, for example, because they're stamping their feet about something someone's teliing them). but the law is also there to protect people from malicious talk and something that might be construed as inciting hatred. We may not like what they say, or in this case, how they say it, but thank everything they CAN say it here. The Police will uphold the law as far as they can with anyone who tries to break it

[yorkie_chris]

Agreed, the US don't stand for it, neither do the French by all accounts

So you can't accuse them of government sponsored terrorism without getting your head kicked in. Where does that end? What happens when a white person disagrees with the government... oh lets say about having our biking restricted by Europe... we all get locked up for being terrorists. It's a slippery slope.

[MisterTommyH]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/embassy-protesters-burn-us-flag-132118970.html


I ask you.......WHY?

I don't usually post a thread such as this, and I am certainly far away from supporting the views of certain extreme groups......but why, would...

a: The first group be allowed to be so disrespectful and do what they did
b: the second group be moved away, to allow the first group to carry on



:confused:

Discuss

A- The first were taking up their right to free speech. I don't agree with what they did, but in this country they have the right to do it. And personally I think thats right..... there is no 'decency filter' on free speech, but if there was, who would decide what was decent, and who would ensure they weren't promoting their own agenda?

B- As far as I can tell the EDL would only be there to try and stop the first having their right to free speech. From what I know of them they are no more that the BNP reincarnated.

[Biker Biggles]

Free speech is a very expensive right and means you have to listen to all manner of thoroughly obnoxious groups spouting all sorts of carp,but the alternative is much worse IMO.These people have to be allowed to demonstrate within the law.
I do worry sometimes though,that a group of whites might not be allowed to burn a Saudi flag outside their embassy in protest at Human rights violations there???????
Just as an aside--------Does anyone else think our media have gone overboard on this 9/11 thing?Sure its the tenth anniversary and dignified comemoration and remembrance is fine,but wall to wall drivel about it all day,and for most of the previous week is way OTT.

[MisterTommyH]

Does anyone else think our media have gone overboard on this 9/11 thing?Sure its the tenth anniversary and dignified comemoration and remembrance is fine,but wall to wall drivel about it all day,and for most of the previous week is way OTT.

Just a bit.....

To me this isn't News. Or at least the fact that the memorials took place is and should be reported, but every little detail and coverage on 6 channels is not.

[beabert]

Just a bit.....

To me this isn't News. Or at least the fact that the memorials took place is and should be reported, but every little detail and coverage on 6 channels is not.

The think that annoys me the most about it all is god be mentioning every 10 minutes. :smt013 I dont see the connection.

[Bri w]

Freedom of speech comes with the responsibility to respect that freedom or potentially lose it to heavy handed laws that will restrict it because of the disrespectful type of protest we've seen today.

You want to protest? Fine, don't have a problem with it. You want disagree with my beliefs? Fine, but at least respect them just as I respect yours. You want to be abusive... sorry but I expect my beliefs to be protected by the Police just as I expect yours to be protected. And if you accidently fall on a Police baton coz you've behaved way out of line, you've earned it.

[The Idle Biker]

Just as an aside--------Does anyone else think our media have gone overboard on this 9/11 thing?Sure its the tenth anniversary and dignified comemoration and remembrance is fine,but wall to wall drivel about it all day,and for most of the previous week is way OTT.

I have to disagree, and maybe on an emotional level than anything else. It was such a heinous crime and having been close to 7/7 I can only imagine with horror still, at what those poor people above the impact felt as they waited to die or in some cases fell to their death. We had people in both towers that day, they got out but the Cantors team didn't and I still feel connected to it even though I only watched it unfold on TV. That said, if it wasn't for the fact I'd probably get arrested or be associated with the EDL idiots, I felt like going up and steaming into the Muslims against Crusades or whatever those Mugs call themselves. I believe in the principle of free speech, but like it or not this was a memorial service, and those ****ers are stretching the principle.

[andrewsmith]

That is cow poo of the highest order and nothing more than ill informed ranting.
In this country we have a long and proud history of supporting freedom of speech. We allow all sorts of people to show they opinions oabout many things (holding everyone up on motorways, for example, because they're stamping their feet about something someone's teliing them). but the law is also there to protect people from malicious talk and something that might be construed as inciting hatred. We may not like what they say, or in this case, how they say it, but thank everything they CAN say it here. The Police will uphold the law as far as they can with anyone who tries to break it

I'm not getting at our right of freedom of speech, but there is freedom of speech, then there is inciting violence and extremist views linked to terrorism.
Yes there is a fine line between the two, but protesting about America (amongst other things) in Grovsnor Square London on the same day as a Memorial service to the victims of a terrorist atrocity (that occurred in America) is in very bad taste or intended to do things like this thread!

Just a bit.....

To me this isn't News. Or at least the fact that the memorials took place is and should be reported, but every little detail and coverage on 6 channels is not.

Sad thing is were in a world where we give air time and column inches to Katie Price. Its a fine line between the two the 7/7 attacks get air time but far less than this

So you can't accuse them of government sponsored terrorism without getting your head kicked in. Where does that end? What happens when a white person disagrees with the government... oh lets say about having our biking restricted by Europe... we all get locked up for being terrorists. It's a slippery slope.

I was directly referring to Iraq and Israel where the US (and the UK, we're not 100% innocent) has effectively sponsored it, or Libya with PanAm.

[pegasus]

What it has done is provoked a reaction from the public....I would summise that the vast majority will be unhappy with the actions of these people...so without doing anything the government have allowed these people to demonstrate knowing full well that it will infuriate the majority of the British Public.

the reaction of the British public to this will define wether or not the Governments anti terrorist strategies are being accepted or not.

I would say that with an open mind everything is not always what it seems, and as bizarre and "out of the box" as this is going to sound you only have the BBC's or ITV's or Sky News word for it that the people demonstrating are actually Muslims. Would it be so unusual for them to be stool pigeons? actors? .
As i said not my opinion but as i get older i learn not to judge a book by its cover.

now then......wheres that tin hat.

P

[The Idle Biker]

first part possibly, second part arf arf, there's plenty of idiots willing to do that part, HMG don't need to provide stool pigeons.

[-Ralph-]

Well they are disrespectful pigs and if they end up living in a sty, I won't have any sympathy. But what they did was legal, and a lot more people died to secure that legality, than died in the twin towers that day.

I only hope the terrorist squad is working overtime right now to build an intelligence file and keep tabs on every extremeist barsteward that took part.

[MisterTommyH]

I wouldn't have thought that the kinds of people who take part in these protests are terrorists.....just the ones that have been wound up by the radicals?

Surely if you were a terrorist that would be the last place you would want to be seen?

[-Ralph-]

I wouldn't have thought that the kinds of people who take part in these protests are terrorists.....just the ones that have been wound up by the radicals?

Surely if you were a terrorist that would be the last place you would want to be seen?

A number of radical Islamic groups including Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) gathered outside the embassy on the tenth anniversary of the attacks.

You don't think these people are the kind of people we want the terrorist squad to be keeping an eye on? :rolleyes:

That's like saying social services shouldn't keep an eye on a kid who's covered in bruises, because they can't yet prove how it happened.

Anyone known to hold radical extremist views should be on the watch list IMO.

It's only a step away from...

radical Islamic group Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) has claimed responsibility for the attacks.

[littleoldman2]

My political colour always been a bit pink, not red but pink. I firmly believe in free speech and the giving of the individual for the common good. I don't believe in discrimination of any sort. I also am respectful of others and at this time this was not the thing to do. I can see why there is a bit of a bite back by members of the indigenous population, I was annoyed when in Morrisons on Friday a young Muslim lady was served petrol after the recent reports about helmet removal and verification of age. But you have to consider that in the Asian culture this behaviour is to be expected and they are surprised that we don't react in the same way as for instance the Syrian rulers have. With respect to the when in Rome do as the Romans do view, I ask when have we.

[Shawthing]

I'd just like to be fly on the wall when Obama asks Cameron 'What,, in Uncle Sam's name is goin on here?'

[Bri w]

My political colour always been a bit pink, not red but pink. I firmly believe in free speech and the giving of the individual for the common good. I don't believe in discrimination of any sort. I also am respectful of others and at this time this was not the thing to do. I can see why there is a bit of a bite back by members of the indigenous population, I was annoyed when in Morrisons on Friday a young Muslim lady was served petrol after the recent reports about helmet removal and verification of age. But you have to consider that in the Asian culture this behaviour is to be expected and they are surprised that we don't react in the same way as for instance the Syrian rulers have. With respect to the when in Rome do as the Romans do view, I ask when have we.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said apart from "when in Rome... I ask when have we?"

When we're in Saudi, or insert pretty much any country outside the EU, you get no choice. If you don't do as the Romans do you get done.

[Shawthing]

Video:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/september-11-attacks/8755834/911-anniversary-Muslim-protesters-burn-US-flag-outside-embassy-in-London.html

D'y like the Arai lid?

[andrewsmith]

Video:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/september-11-attacks/8755834/911-anniversary-Muslim-protesters-burn-US-flag-outside-embassy-in-London.html

D'y like the Arai lid?

Sorry and all that

They all should be on the watch lists like all the nut jobs we produce

[littleoldman2]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said apart from "when in Rome... I ask when have we?"

When we're in Saudi, or insert pretty much any country outside the EU, you get no choice. If you don't do as the Romans do you get done.
That's how it is now and quite right to, I was thinking in the historical sense.

[fizzwheel]

Does anyone else think our media have gone overboard on this 9/11 thing?

Yes, but I suspect you and I are in the minority on that one.

[andrewsmith]

Yes, but I suspect you and I are in the minority on that one.

Makes 3 of us!
Fair enuf it was a massive loss of life, but does it justify 4 straight days of media coverage?

[MisterTommyH]

You don't think these people are the kind of people we want the terrorist squad to be keeping an eye on? :rolleyes:

That's like saying social services shouldn't keep an eye on a kid who's covered in bruises, because they can't yet prove how it happened.

Anyone known to hold radical extremist views should be on the watch list IMO.

It's only a step away from...

No, I think these are the kind of people that would end up in Four Lions or something similar, while the real terrorists who keep their heads down are the ones we should really be worried about.

[keith_d]

To paraphrase Descartes, I disagree absolutely with what they were doing, but still defend their right to do it. Having genuinely free speech means we must put up with these extremist tosspots until they stray into incitement or funding terrorism. At that point they can (and should) legitimately be locked up.

I personally think it's disrespectful, but they seem to have a severe case of double standards. They expect people to respect them and their religion, while going out of their way to be as disrespectful as possible to others. Crap, but that's how people are.

If the EDL want a fight, maybe they should loudly deny the rumour that their next meeting in Bradford will include a hog roast fuelled by copies of Koran. :smt077

[dizzyblonde]

Yes, but I suspect you and I are in the minority on that one.


That would make 5 of us then!

Its a tragic event in modern history. One that will be forever there. I watched it whilst carrying my first son, and although I watched the events live on air as it was so unbelievably terrible, I'll not be one to forget it in a hurry. For that reason, I really don't need a four day reminder on the 10th anniversary. I am well aware of all the people left to live their lives without their loved ones........but I don't need to be reminded day in day out, nor should I imagine do they.

It may sound a bit mean, but the media really do like to shove some things down your throat....sometimes as a smokescreen for other events they really should be covering instead, which they don't want us to hear about.

[fizzwheel]

Makes 3 of us!
Fair enuf it was a massive loss of life, but does it justify 4 straight days of media coverage?

Theres also the thing to think about it was life changing for everybody not just those that died or the families of those that died. Its changed our way of life, its effected our economy and the way we go about travelling. Its also resulted IMHO in british soldiers loosing their lives in Afghanisatan for example and thats something that I dont necesarily agree with, whilst I support the troops. I dont think they should be out there in the first place.

I think because its the 10 year anniversary of it that also weighs into how much media coverage that events of that day get.

I have been watching some of the programs about the rebuilding of ground zero and what they have been doing and thats quite interesting but more from an architectural point of view.

Probably a subject of discussion for another time or a different thread. I take the view of that I have a remote control for the TV so I can turn it over, nobodies forcing me to watch it so I dont.

[andrewsmith]

Theres also the thing to think about it was life changing for everybody not just those that died or the families of those that died. Its changed our way of life, its effected our economy and the way we go about travelling. Its also resulted IMHO in british soldiers loosing their lives in Afghanisatan for example and thats something that I dont necesarily agree with, whilst I support the troops. I dont think they should be out there in the first place.

I think because its the 10 year anniversary of it that also weighs into how much media coverage that events of that day get.

I have been watching some of the programs about the rebuilding of ground zero and what they have been doing and thats quite interesting but more from an architectural point of view.

Probably a subject of discussion for another time or a different thread. I take the view of that I have a remote control for the TV so I can turn it over, nobodies forcing me to watch it so I dont.

agreed its another thread.
But the main stories have been shuffled down the order and some bad news has been glossed over

[yorkie_chris]

that the people demonstrating are actually Muslims. Would it be so unusual for them to be stool pigeons? actors? .

That is what happens in the middle east, apparently, all the flag burning nutters are state lackeys employed to stir up the populace.

Mr Goebbel's Big Lie alive and well :smt045

[yorkie_chris]

I was directly referring to Iraq and Israel where the US (and the UK, we're not 100% innocent) has effectively sponsored it, or Libya with PanAm.

No you definitely said they wouldn't stand for it [the protesting]. You didn't make reference to any particular states activity.

[Stuuk1]

But flag burning aside, you've got to agree the US foreign policies are hardly all lily white and innocent are they...



This is another subject, Today was the anniversary of a disgusting act.

Today's anniversary was honouring the dead, not anything to do with who believes what.

If someone wants to have a moan, do it, but not on such a sensitive day.

The muslim scum that carried it out today should all be drowned in the thames along with a copy of the bible.

[andrewsmith]

No you definitely said they wouldn't stand for it [the protesting]. You didn't make reference to any particular states activity.

The US did actively stop Terry Jones (Koran burning Pastor) protesting in his creative way

[-Ralph-]

No, I think these are the kind of people that would end up in Four Lions or something similar, while the real terrorists who keep their heads down are the ones we should really be worried about.

Of course we need to worry about those keeping their heads down, but to think these young men couldn't progress from simply making a noise to becoming part of an active cell with a little "guidance" from their peers is naieve IMO, but you are entitled to that view of course.

[littleoldman2]

This is another subject, Today was the anniversary of a disgusting act.

Today's anniversary was honouring the dead, not anything to do with who believes what.

If someone wants to have a moan, do it, but not on such a sensitive day.

The muslim scum that carried it out today should all be drowned in the thames along with a copy of the bible.
We need to take this in context, its just racial hatred like any other I'm sure these people are a small minority, this could so easily read

Today's anniversary was honouring the dead, not anything to do with who believes what.

If someone wants to have a moan, do it, but not on such a sensitive day.

The Celtic scum that carried it out today should all be gassed in a concentration camp of the type they were saved from.

[SoulKiss]

Where was the 15th Anniversary Rememberance of the Arndale Centre on the 15th of June where although no-one died, 212 people were injured?

Or the plans for the 20th Anniversary of the Bishopsgate Bomb come 2013?

Its all PR and publicity to keep the American Sheeple under fear and justify ourselves and the Yanks going into the Middle East.

[daveyrach]

Let's be honest, both groups are EXTREMISTS, be it MAC or EDL

[Specialone]

I've posted my views on here many times and many disagree with them, freedom of speech is one thing, incitement is another, freedom to protest legally is fine, I don't like what they protest about but that's another story, but burning flags is not legal, it's inciting a reaction so shouldn't be tolerated IMO.

They are fecking scum, no more no less.

A lot of Muslims don't share the views of the extremists, but there is more than the general populace realise I'm sure.

There does seem to be a lot of young Muslim males who certainly have this anti west views and rascist with it from my experience, go to the areas and see for yourself if you're naive to think it's only a few.


Heard about the thing on the news today about areas with the most uninsured drivers?

All the areas mentioned in the midlands are highly predominately Asian areas, food for thought?

[grimey121uk]

These muslim extremist say they hate the western world however its funny that they live in the UK and not pakistan.

People always say that we should have free speech and that its ok for muslim to burn US and UK flags, yet if I went on a demonstration march shouting my beliefs I would likely be branded a racist.
Can you imagine if a british white male hetro-sexual was to burn a Quran in public, imagine the claims of inciting racial hatred, yet muslims are free to burn bibles.

My personally view is that all religion is daft and how someone can believe in a magical man that sits in the clouds watching us all day with no proof is just plain mad. I have no beef with religious people if they want to believe these fairy stories thats fine just don't bring me into it.

Another example it that its OK for a muslim women to cover here face with a robe and then walk into a bank, yet we are not allowed to go in with a bike helmet on, so thats 1 rule for certain people and another rule for everyone else, would it be any different banks allowed people to wear helmets yet put a sign up that said no muslims with face covered? of course it would the latter would be racist

[SoulKiss]

I have no beef with religious people if they want to believe these fairy stories thats fine just don't bring me into it.

How dare you bring beef into this - are you insulting my Pastafarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) beliefs?

All hail his Noodley Appendage

[Paul the 6th]

W-IrzJqfTQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-IrzJqfTQA

[Owenski]

ohhhhhhhh this fecking rollocks again, i dont mean again on the forum I just mean again full stop.
These protests may be legal but look what further violence they incite, its all a joke. Doing stuff like this then screaming blue murder when people flash them an angry look - pathetic.

If you're gonna stand there burning flags and been blatently disrespectful then dont expect a warm cuddle from a train full of constructive society. Get the faces of these nkobs printed in the paper, see how tough they are when they're not with thier mini army. UCNTS! the lot of em.

2nd point for those who are too assuming to actually get eductated on the matter, the EDL formed for a fantastic reason. Yes their members are most prob the BNP/UKIP core voters but these are the same people who've been pushed to the point of rebellion by what they've seen on thier doorstep. Get a clue before you refer to them as racist thugs, generally speaking they're just the people who are willing to stand and be counted on matters we all wish we had the minerals to express ourselves.

Again, not aimed at any one on here, I havnt read past dizzys first post cos I fear that would really get my back up on the subject.

[grimey121uk]

2nd point for those who are too assuming to actually get eductated on the matter, the EDL formed for a fantastic reason. Yes their members are most prob the BNP/UKIP core voters but these are the same people who've been pushed to the point of rebellion by what they've seen on thier doorstep. Get a clue before you refer to them as racist thugs, generally speaking they're just the people who are willing to stand and be counted on matters we all wish we had the minerals to express ourselves.

But they are just mindless racist thugs, thats what the papers say!

I understand where your coming from, I voted BNP not because I want a retard like Nick G to get in power or his bunch or retards running the country but instead I want to make a point. If all of a sudden half the UK started voting for them maybe the usual political parties might get it into their thick head that the majority of the UK don't want criminal and child molesters to get lame sentences, most people don't want people dossing on the dole and most people don't and most people don't want minority groups having more rights than everyone else.

More people would vote for the BNP however the current political parties have great relationships with the media so there is a stigma attached to voting for any party like the BNP, endless accusations of racism and pictures of thugs yet no mention of their actual mandate which is actually quite interesting.
BNP actually stands for common sense however if you vote for them you are portrayed as a mini hitler

[SoulKiss]

I understand where your coming from, I voted BNP not because I want a retard like Nick G to get in power or his bunch or retards running the country but instead I want to make a point. If all of a sudden half the UK started voting for them maybe the usual political parties might get it into their thick head that the majority of the UK don't want criminal and child molesters to get lame sentences, most people don't want people dossing on the dole and most people don't and most people don't want minority groups having more rights than everyone else.

More people would vote for the BNP however the current political parties have great relationships with the media so there is a stigma attached to voting for any party like the BNP, endless accusations of racism and pictures of thugs yet no mention of their actual mandate which is actually quite interesting.
BNP actually stands for common sense however if you vote for them you are portrayed as a mini hitler

The only retards are those that think that "Protest Votes" are just to make a point.

You DO realise that Nazi is a shortining of National don't you?

The BNP has spent a lot of time and money to look reasonable on the surface - but look back at the roots of the party, where they came from, why they were founded and you will see the truth.

If they really have changed, why still the same name?

They have had councillors kicked out of office because they couldn't be bothered to turn up and their "Party Roster" is at times only half-filled.

A real, credible, alternative ok.

[grimey121uk]

The only retards are those that think that "Protest Votes" are just to make a point.

You DO realise that Nazi is a shortining of National don't you?

The BNP has spent a lot of time and money to look reasonable on the surface - but look back at the roots of the party, where they came from, why they were founded and you will see the truth.

If they really have changed, why still the same name?

They have had councillors kicked out of office because they couldn't be bothered to turn up and their "Party Roster" is at times only half-filled.

A real, credible, alternative ok.


Again like I said I dont want them in power!
I want what is said on there website to be the policies of a decent political party

[SoulKiss]

Again like I said I dont want them in power!

But you VOTED for them?

Enough people with that attitude and they end up in power.

Think about it.

[yorkie_chris]

There does seem to be a lot of young Muslim males who certainly have this anti west views and rascist with it from my experience, go to the areas and see for yourself if you're naive to think it's only a few.


Heard about the thing on the news today about areas with the most uninsured drivers?

All the areas mentioned in the midlands are highly predominately Asian areas, food for thought?

I don't consider them Muslim, they're just a bunch of racist, antisocial c***s who need shooting. Who cares what colour they are.

[Bri w]

I don't consider them Muslim, they're just a bunch of racist, antisocial c***s who need shooting. Who cares what colour they are.

Jeez Chris.... I'm find I'm agreeing with you. Oh me head...;)

That aside you nailed spot on without paragraphs of waffle

[Messie]

What's the difference between possibly inciting racial hatred and tension by burning a flag and calling for the murder, locking up, castration etc of another group of people?

[Specialone]

I don't consider them Muslim, they're just a bunch of racist, antisocial c***s who need shooting. Who cares what colour they are.


I agree Chris, but unfortunately if you ask what religion they are, 99% will be Muslim.
Its also been proved by undecover filming in Mosques this isnt just the views of a few, its taught by some leaders in the mosques themselves, so the younger, more western muslims havent got a chance with their elders corrupting their minds.

I dont think the average person in this country realise just how dangerous this could become, all will become apparent in the future thats for sure.

The true Muslims have a responsibility to sort this from within imo as i know from speaking to a few its not what their religion stands for.

[grimey121uk]

But you VOTED for them?

Enough people with that attitude and they end up in power.

Think about it.

No they wouldn't get in power as rich corporates pump billions into political parties to be elected for their own interests, if the majority of the UK population voted for BNP the main parties would change their policies as their main goal is to be in power.

With regards to your comments about the history of the BNP
"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place." -- Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

I vote for policies I have beliefs in, If you want to vote for a party that allows bankers to cripple the entire country, give criminals soft sentences, allow the welfare bill to be larger than all income tax received and then discriminates against its own people then go ahead but just don't assume others are idiots. Im sure Mr Cameron knows about multi culture society with him living in a gated of house surrounded by acres of land with all his rich eaton friends.

And before you brand me a a racist, bear in mind that I have many muslim friends most of who embrace out culture, in fact a close friend of mine who has only been in the UK for 5 years lives an English life style, he has a roast dinner on sundays and embarrassingly knows more about english heritage than i do. Also we both enjoy debates on Atheism v religion and respect each others opinion although think each other is crazy.

[SoulKiss]

No they wouldn't get in power as rich corporate pump billions into political parties to be elected for their own interests, if the majority of the UK population voted for BNP the main parties would change their policies as their main goal is to be in power.

By which time we would be stuck with the BNP for 4 years until the [insert name of conspiracy of choice here] could do anything about it.

They don't need to get into a Governmental Majority position to have power - they already have gotten into Councillor, seats and Nick Griffin himself and another of them got to be MEP's

The only way for them NOT to get power is for people to not vote for them.

[grimey121uk]

By which time we would be stuck with the BNP for 4 years until the [insert name of conspiracy of choice here] could do anything about it.

They don't need to get into a Governmental Majority position to have power - they already have gotten into Councillor, seats and Nick Griffin himself and another of them got to be MEP's

The only way for them NOT to get power is for people to not vote for them.


Let me stress again it would be a huge wrong for the BNP to be in power in my eyes, on the other hand we live in a democracy supposedly (don't get me started on that one), so if you believe in democracy you must support the idea that Hitler 2 should be allowed into power should enough people want it.

When its election time its a case of not voting, voting for a bunch of useless retards or doing a protest vote so i'm screwed either way

[SoulKiss]

Let me stress again it would be a huge wrong for the BNP to be in power in my eyes.

If this is the case how can you, with any conscience, walk into a Polling Station, collect your Ballot Paper and put a cross in the BNP box?

[-Ralph-]

Let's not confuse religion with extremism. Religion is an excuse used by extremists.

[SoulKiss]

on the other hand we live in a democracy supposedly (don't get me started on that one), so if you believe in democracy you must support the idea that Hitler 2 should be allowed into power should enough people want it.

I am completely on the same page as you on this on.

But if Hitler 2 got in power because 100,000 wanted to not vote for someone else but felt a Hitler 2 vote was a better idea than not voting or spoiling their ballot paper then thats NOT what the people wanted is it?

[SoulKiss]

When its election time its a case of not voting, voting for a bunch of useless retards or doing a protest vote so i'm screwed either way

Go find a party that IS in line with your views? Start one if necessary?

Protest Votes don't work, they have never worked and they can never work.

[grimey121uk]

If this is the case how can you, with any conscience, walk into a Polling Station, collect your Ballot Paper and put a cross in the BNP box?


How can you go and tick a labour on conservative box, knowing that the UK keeps 3rd world countries in poverty, while african countries have no water to drink we are busy with our huge oil companies taking all there assets.

How can you tick one of them boxes which allows bankers who have landed each person in this country with 10's of thousands in debt and yet not one of them has gone to prison.

How can you tick one of them boxes which allow the murderers of James Bulger to live a life of luxury downloading child porn protected at the cost of millions to the tax payers, rather than rotting in some cell with their balls chopped off?

Also may I add that with the current law in the UK it can be classed as racist to fly a union jack?

[dizzyblonde]

Let's not confuse religion with extremism. Religion is an excuse used by extremists.


Isn't there a famous quotation refering to Religion as an excuse/cause, for/of war?

[SoulKiss]

How can you go and tick a labour on conservative box, knowing that the UK keeps 3rd world countries in poverty, while african countries have no water to drink we are busy with our huge oil companies taking all there assets.

How can you tick a box for a party that would do even less, after all those Africans are not British?

Maybe the real problem in Africa is that parts of Africa are not suitable, due to climate, lack of water, the inability to grow reliable crops to actually support people in the same way that Britain, for example, is, yet someone says that they are entitled to the same standards of living?


How can you tick one of them boxes which allows bankers who have landed each person in this country with 10's of thousands in debt and yet not one of them has gone to prison.

How can you tick one of them boxes which allow the murderers of James Bulger to live a life of luxury downloading child porn protected at the cost of millions to the tax payers, rather than rotting in some cell with their balls chopped off?

Its "one of THOSE" boxes btw, so I guess you should add "How can you tick one of them boxes that allows young adults to leave our schools unable to communicate properly" although I guess thats probably a plot by the Political Elite to stop the average man in the street from being able to fight back against their oppressors, right?

THAT however IS the answer, get in the face of your Councellors/MPs, gather together a group of like-minded individuals and ask these questions of THEM, not me.

Tens of thousands in Debt? I don't believe I have seen anything from HMRC stating that I owe anything in that way, and I assure you, if I did then they would have contacted me already. How about the tens of thousands of debt that many people have racked up on their own accord? How about the people who see the £100,000 "value" of their new Buy-to-Let property as £100,000 in their pocket instead of £80,000 of debt bundled up nicely in a mortgage?

As for the Bulger case - all well and good, but all being dealt with within the statutes of our laws, which state that once you have served your time, you are entitled to a clean slate, its just that in some cases that clean slate costs more than others. What they did was awful, but as we currently dont have "chopping knackers off and leaving to rot" as a punishment available to the Judges of this land, incarceration then release is the worst that was available.

Also may I add that with the current law in the UK it can be classed as racist to fly a union jack?

Can't say that ever find myself walking down the street/driving along the road/looking at my house and thinking "you know whats missing from this picture, yep, a Union Jack (really should be capitalised you know)

[Messie]

So much to answer .... but I'll stick with one little nugget of ignorance:

it is not illegal to fly the Union Flag (that's it's correct name by the way) in this country, nor is it considered offensively racist enough to be considered a breach of any law.

[SoulKiss]

So much to answer .... but I'll stick with one little nugget of ignorance:

it is not illegal to fly the Union Flag (that's it's correct name by the way) in this country, nor is it considered offensively racist enough to be considered a breach of any law.

Actually while its only mentioned in writing as the Union Flag, a Jack is/was a name for any flag in the Navy and so the name Union Jack *IS* permissable (I looked this aspect up along side the Capitalisation issue and decided against going with it...

[daveyrach]

Actually while its only mentioned in writing as the Union Flag, a Jack is/was a name for any flag in the Navy and so the name Union Jack *IS* permissable (I looked this aspect up along side the Capitalisation issue and decided against going with it...

A Union Flag OR Union Jack can be used, '1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. In 1908 a government minister stated, in response to a Parliamentary question, that "the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag"'

The word Jack comes from the 15-1600's and describes a ships bow flag.

[hindle8907]

Rubber dingy rapids bro .

[pegasus]

In the long term we can hope that religion will change the nature of man and reduce conflict. But history is not encouraging in this respect. The bloodiest wars in history have been religious wars.
Richard M. Nixon (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richardmn164353.html)

[Messie]

That's interesting about the flag. I've learned something today.

I also learned that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Didnt know that either

[dizzyblonde]

I also learned that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Didnt know that either

REAALLLLYY?????:o
Theres an awful lot of similarities between the two, and also the Jews. I touched on it a little in the conspiracy thread. I know this as I have spent many 'work' nights with my fellow Muslim colleagues chewing the fat about our beliefs, with total mutual respect. They aren't quite sure why I aren't religious and can hold a debate from a Christian corner, when I don't practise, but hand on heart have never slammed me down when I say I have a respect for all religions, and keep an open mind about all of them.

Its not actually the same God as such, Jesus, is seen as a prophet of Allah(Mohammed) they acknowledge this very openly. Their views on the 'second coming' is not too far away from a Christians, although it gets a bit strange after that, as Imam Mahdi will come, and his followers destroy the non believers unless they convert.....or something to that effect. Its a little hazy, but I do tend to do a lot of bedtime reading on the subject as I find it fascinating. They believe in the four horsemen of the apocalypse(white, red, black and pale) conquest, war, famine and death, as when those things come the 11th Imam will follow to inherit the world.
They believe in the Dajjal(devil) it could be taken that they believe our god to be the Dajjal, and their God to be Imam Madhi......and perhaps vice versa in our version.

Its all pretty interesting, I'm fascinated by the whole subject. I just see it as long ago, two fellas fell out, whilst fighting over a book, one ripped one half and took it with him and made his own version with what was left, and the same for the other.......not perhaps too far from the truth when the two big religions of the world share some very large comparisons.

[andrewsmith]

In the long term we can hope that religion will change the nature of man and reduce conflict. But history is not encouraging in this respect. The bloodiest wars in history have been religious wars.
Richard M. Nixon (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/richardmn164353.html)

That is very true,

We talking quotes where this is true

The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them. (Applause.)
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Freedom_and_Fear_Are_at_War


That's interesting about the flag. I've learned something today.

I also learned that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Didnt know that either

I did (don't know how I've ended up knowing it :S), the difference is the interpretation of the old testament if my memory serves me, same as the Jews.
I think Hinduism also does. Buddism is the only one that doesn't share a similar god

[grimey121uk]

That's interesting about the flag. I've learned something today.

I also learned that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Didnt know that either

They are both pretty much the same religion, muslims believe in the bible and jesus etc.

The main difference is that christians pick and choose what to follow in the bible, where as muslims follow more of the rules/guidance.

Christians shouldn't pay interest on loans but its inconvenient so they ignore it also eating pork is 50/50, some people think that they are pretty strict christians just because they don't murder people but then ignore everything else. If you belie the bible you should follow it and not just pick and choose what you want to do!

[dizzyblonde]

The main difference is that christians pick and choose what to follow in the bible, where as muslims follow more of the rules/guidance


The Qu'ran is written in only Arabic, as I was led to believe, and has never had different versions, with bits missing as the Bible does. Its only ever been handed down in one language, so therefore never diluted or altered due to translation. Either party pick and choose which part they wish to use as guidance. The Qu'ran is given as teaching every day, the Bible is honestly not so is it?

The interesting part is that in Islam the New Testament is totally disregarded, its only the Old Testament is the only part of the Bible, they willingly respect.

[ahmedf]

Its not actually the same God as such, Jesus, is seen as a prophet of Allah(Mohammed) they acknowledge this very openly.


not true, Jesus (PBUH) is not Muhammad (PBUH) in the quran, Jesus (PBUH) is Isa(PBUH) (Quranic equivalent) and Muhammad (PBUH) is prophesised (sp?) in the bible (admittedly after a quick google). just to clarify

[grimey121uk]

The Qu'ran is written in only Arabic, as I was led to believe, and has never had different versions, with bits missing as the Bible does. Its only ever been handed down in one language, so therefore never diluted or altered due to translation. Either party pick and choose which part they wish to use as guidance. The Qu'ran is given as teaching every day, the Bible is honestly not so is it?

The interesting part is that in Islam the New Testament is totally disregarded, its only the Old Testament is the only part of the Bible, they willingly respect.

I found this quite informative and funny:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk0K1zgCDtE

[orose]

Its not actually the same God as such, Jesus, is seen as a prophet of Allah(Mohammed) they acknowledge this very openly.

That isn't how I understand it - I thought Allah and God were referring to the same concept, but Jesus was the son of God in Christianity but just another prophet to Islam. Mohammed I thought was the primary prophet in Islam, and the translator from the ineffable to earthly language.

I'd also note that I'm firmly in the camp of not caring too much about religion, except to work out the get out clauses that will get them to leave me alone ;)

Back on the original topic, I'd have to say that I disagree with both groups, although their right to be heard should never be suppressed. I reserve the right not to listen :p

[grimey121uk]

That isn't how I understand it - I thought Allah and God were referring to the same concept, but Jesus was the son of God in Christianity but just another prophet to Islam. Mohammed I thought was the primary prophet in Islam, and the translator from the ineffable to earthly language.

I'd also note that I'm firmly in the camp of not caring too much about religion, except to work out the get out clauses that will get them to leave me alone ;)

Back on the original topic, I'd have to say that I disagree with both groups, although their right to be heard should never be suppressed. I reserve the right not to listen :p

I was also under that impression as jews, christians and muslims push the idea of the same "one god"

[dizzyblonde]

not true, Jesus (PBUH) is not Muhammad (PBUH) in the quran, Jesus (PBUH) is Isa(PBUH) (Quranic equivalent) and Muhammad (PBUH) is prophesised (sp?) in the bible (admittedly after a quick google). just to clarify

I didn't say Jesus was Muhammed. I am very aware are totally different;)

I can only devise by your username, and your use of () that you may be Muslim:confused:
Could you possibly clarify my understandings more, so I have actually learnt something in my discussions with my work colleagues over the years? I am hoping that I aren't too far off course;)

[ahmedf]

I didn't say Jesus was Muhammed. I am very aware are totally different;)

I can only devise by your username, and your use of () that you may be Muslim:confused:
Could you possibly clarify my understandings more, so I have actually learnt something in my discussions with my work colleagues over the years? I am hoping that I aren't too far off course;)

forgive me, as someone above has also picked up it seemed like you meant muhammad (PBUH) and jesus (PBUH) were equivalents among the two religions.

regarding the second coming etc God is God in both christianity and islam. They are the same! it is merely like saying one and uno, both mean 1 and are the same numbers, its merely a translation. Regarding the imam, i'm sorry i'm not clued up at all what he is or will do apart from something along the lines that both Jesus (PBUH) and the imam will come to lead a prayer against the Dajjal which is the Anti-Christ (direct translation). the anti-Christ is as you are most probably aware someone who claims to be Godlike in his abilities etc and thus gets the "weak in faith" to follow him rather than God. So the imam and jesus (PBUH) are in fact not here to destroy non-believers as such but more to fight the Anti-christ who will naturally have followers who are non-believers as they would be "easily fooled" in a manner of speaking

RE the horsmen etc its the first i've heard of such but then as i mentioned before i am in no way clued up on either religion.

the main difference RE Jesus (PBUH) is islam says he was not crucified and is thus alive but in one of the heavens i believe and is not the Son of God. (which is why muslims do not wear the cross)

Islams view on Christianity from the way i have been taught at mosque and my parents have taught me is, respect every ones beliefs and never impose your religion on others. Yes you can educate them but if someone doesn't want to know or is firm in their own belief then you respect them as much as anyone else and what they stand for. I have been taught to treat the bible, the torah and quran all as an equal and this is taught in the quran aswell as all are the book of God, which is why you never saw anyone threaten to burn the bible after the american pastor said his piece.

While i do not agree with America and its invasion of such countries i do believe that the protestors are just idiots, there's a time and a place for everything so i guess waiting one day to protest wouldn't have made a huge difference but the level of impact i guess would be minute, but this in my eyes doesnt justify their actions. its just silly and ruins the image of islam even more than it already is.

while i would be happy to "clarify" some of your understandings more, i'm afraid i would most likely need them clarified myself :p as my knowledge is i am ashamed to say quite minimal, but if you have any queries i would be more than happy to search my limited knowledge bank to see if i have any answers...but dont have any high hopes :D

oh and yes i am a muslim

BTW sorry for the slight (possible major) derail and the extensive post.

HTH

[Ed]

Everyone knows that Jesus was a white anglo-saxon male protestant who shopped at Waitrose and drove an Audi;)

As for the main subject, well if these people didn't burn flags and rant for the benefit of the cameras, well we wouldn't have anyone to laugh at, be they white, black, Muslim or Christian.

[dizzyblonde]

forgive me, as someone above has also picked up it seemed like you meant muhammad (PBUH) and jesus (PBUH) were equivalents among the two religions.

regarding the second coming etc God is God in both christianity and islam. They are the same! it is merely like saying one and uno, both mean 1 and are the same numbers, its merely a translation. Regarding the imam, i'm sorry i'm not clued up at all what he is or will do apart from something along the lines that both Jesus (PBUH) and the imam will come to lead a prayer against the Dajjal which is the Anti-Christ (direct translation). the anti-Christ is as you are most probably aware someone who claims to be Godlike in his abilities etc and thus gets the "weak in faith" to follow him rather than God. So the imam and jesus (PBUH) are in fact not here to destroy non-believers as such but more to fight the Anti-christ who will naturally have followers who are non-believers as they would be "easily fooled" in a manner of speaking

RE the horsmen etc its the first i've heard of such but then as i mentioned before i am in no way clued up on either religion.

the main difference RE Jesus (PBUH) is islam says he was not crucified and is thus alive but in one of the heavens i believe and is not the Son of God. (which is why muslims do not wear the cross)

Islams view on Christianity from the way i have been taught at mosque and my parents have taught me is, respect every ones beliefs and never impose your religion on others. Yes you can educate them but if someone doesn't want to know or is firm in their own belief then you respect them as much as anyone else and what they stand for. I have been taught to treat the bible, the torah and quran all as an equal and this is taught in the quran aswell as all are the book of God, which is why you never saw anyone threaten to burn the bible after the american pastor said his piece.

While i do not agree with America and its invasion of such countries i do believe that the protestors are just idiots, there's a time and a place for everything so i guess waiting one day to protest wouldn't have made a huge difference but the level of impact i guess would be minute, but this in my eyes doesnt justify their actions. its just silly and ruins the image of islam even more than it already is.

while i would be happy to "clarify" some of your understandings more, i'm afraid i would most likely need them clarified myself :p as my knowledge is i am ashamed to say quite minimal, but if you have any queries i would be more than happy to search my limited knowledge bank to see if i have any answers...but dont have any high hopes :D

oh and yes i am a muslim

BTW sorry for the slight (possible major) derail and the extensive post.

HTH

Thankyou for taking the time to reply:cool:

[andrewsmith]

Thankyou for taking the time to reply:cool:

+1

Good read clarified a few things for myself :cool:

[MisterTommyH]

The Qu'ran is written in only Arabic, as I was led to believe, and has never had different versions, with bits missing as the Bible does.

It's worth noting that the bible had bit's missing before it was even written / collated (arguably to suit the ends of the roman emperor at the time).

There were hundreds of texts around - so they called the council of nicea to determine what should go in and what shouldn't (just a big editors meeting). Lots was removed because it didn't suit what they were trying to say at the time - 325 years after it's all supposed to have happened.

[The Idle Biker]

forgive me, as someone above has also picked up it seemed like you meant muhammad (PBUH) and jesus (PBUH) were equivalents among the two religions.

regarding the second coming etc God is God in both christianity and islam. They are the same! it is merely like saying one and uno, both mean 1 and are the same numbers, its merely a translation. Regarding the imam, i'm sorry i'm not clued up at all what he is or will do apart from something along the lines that both Jesus (PBUH) and the imam will come to lead a prayer against the Dajjal which is the Anti-Christ (direct translation). the anti-Christ is as you are most probably aware someone who claims to be Godlike in his abilities etc and thus gets the "weak in faith" to follow him rather than God. So the imam and jesus (PBUH) are in fact not here to destroy non-believers as such but more to fight the Anti-christ who will naturally have followers who are non-believers as they would be "easily fooled" in a manner of speaking

RE the horsmen etc its the first i've heard of such but then as i mentioned before i am in no way clued up on either religion.

the main difference RE Jesus (PBUH) is islam says he was not crucified and is thus alive but in one of the heavens i believe and is not the Son of God. (which is why muslims do not wear the cross)

Islams view on Christianity from the way i have been taught at mosque and my parents have taught me is, respect every ones beliefs and never impose your religion on others. Yes you can educate them but if someone doesn't want to know or is firm in their own belief then you respect them as much as anyone else and what they stand for. I have been taught to treat the bible, the torah and quran all as an equal and this is taught in the quran aswell as all are the book of God, which is why you never saw anyone threaten to burn the bible after the american pastor said his piece.

While i do not agree with America and its invasion of such countries i do believe that the protestors are just idiots, there's a time and a place for everything so i guess waiting one day to protest wouldn't have made a huge difference but the level of impact i guess would be minute, but this in my eyes doesnt justify their actions. its just silly and ruins the image of islam even more than it already is.

while i would be happy to "clarify" some of your understandings more, i'm afraid i would most likely need them clarified myself :p as my knowledge is i am ashamed to say quite minimal, but if you have any queries i would be more than happy to search my limited knowledge bank to see if i have any answers...but dont have any high hopes :D

oh and yes i am a muslim

BTW sorry for the slight (possible major) derail and the extensive post.

HTH

Good man, nice post. It's all bloody confusing innit. Respect.

[littleoldman2]

Good man, nice post. It's all bloody confusing innit. Respect.
+1 good man

[Specialone]

It's worth noting that the bible had bit's missing before it was even written / collated (arguably to suit the ends of the roman emperor at the time).

There were hundreds of texts around - so they called the council of nicea to determine what should go in and what shouldn't (just a big editors meeting). Lots was removed because it didn't suit what they were trying to say at the time - 325 years after it's all supposed to have happened.

That's exactly why I'm not religious, the truth if any of that time has been interpreted, changed and translated a lot so how much is accurate we can only guess.

Personally I hope I'm wrong about religion but I'm not a believer tbh, too much wrong in the world and not enough evidence to prove there is a greater being.