View Full Version : Self defence - the best legal methods?
sorry to go down a well trod path my fiends :):smt019:rolleyes:
i want a legal form of DEFENCE to carry around, both for me & my Mrs...
my police fwend says theres nowt to do but report any threats you may incur ? , but what if someone actually does want to harm you, cant i buy a pepper spray or something to defend myself ????:cool:
I think the riots have confirmed a few things, mainly, theres lots of nasty people about who we need to defend ourselves from...
maybe the Yanks have had it right all along....:cheers:
johnnyrod
19-09-11, 11:33 AM
Tricky one mate, I'll be interested to see the replies. Probably spills over into offensive weapon territory, which is anything "designed, modified or intended" to cause harm i.e. anything. There's your bare hands, can work well if you know what you're doing, but not so easy to buy off the shelf.
SoulKiss
19-09-11, 11:33 AM
sorry to go down a well trod path my fiends :):smt019:rolleyes:
i want a legal form of DEFENCE to carry around, both for me & my Mrs...
my police fwend says theres nowt to do but report any threats you may incur ? , but what if someone actually does want to harm you, cant i buy a pepper spray or something to defend myself ????:cool:
I think the riots have confirmed a few things, mainly, theres lots of nasty people about who we need to defend ourselves from...
maybe the Yanks have had it right all along....:cheers:
Or maybe not - why take something along for them to beat you/spray you with?
All they have to do is see the item, take it off you, use against you, and frankly they are probably better in a fight than you are.
johnnyrod
19-09-11, 11:37 AM
SK's got a good point, (a) there's no guarantee your chosen stick will do anything for you and (b) once you start on someone, you've given them the OK to do anything they want to you.
the problem with carrying anything for self defence is that it can be taken off you and used against you.
better looking at panic sirens. something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIDENT-MULTI-FUNCTION-PERSONAL-ATTACK-DETERRENT-ALARM-/290610603135?pt=UK_Safety_Alarms&hash=item43a9bde47f
Dicky Ticker
19-09-11, 11:59 AM
Enrol for a basic self defence course.
-Ralph-
19-09-11, 12:02 PM
My Mum changed buses in a dodgy area of Birmingham for 20 years and once belted an attacker round the head at full speed with her umbrella.
The best advice is to and do a course on self defence and learn how to use your own hands and feet.
EDIT: Damn, he may be an old codger, but Dicky Ticker still got there quicker than me! ;-)
A swift kick to the groin?
I heard some interesting advice ages ago that you should shout FIRE! if you're being attacked as people are more likely to come & look / get involved if they think it's a fire but ignore someone being attacked. (horrible I know)
Fruity-ya-ya
19-09-11, 12:19 PM
Apparently, walking with your head up and a chest out type posture is one of the best forms of preventing an attack. By looking confident (even though inside you are pooping you self) can influence a potential attackers decision whether or not attack.
The very best form of self defense has to be avoid trouble in the first place
Owenski
19-09-11, 12:32 PM
Apparently, walking with your head up and a chest out type posture is one of the best forms of preventing an attack. By looking confident (even though inside you are pooping you self) can influence a potential attackers decision whether or not attack.
I agree with that 100%
You'd be suprised how many people look away when you make eye contact.
timwilky
19-09-11, 12:43 PM
Sometimes you just need to help yourself. Don't put yourself in situations where you may be at risk.
EG. avoid unlit environments at night. Don't use a flash mobile on the street, carry minimal amount of cash/cards so handing over a wallet does not hurt.
I no longer wear my decent watch for nights out, only formal evenings as I do not want to attract attention.
That aside, Most street criminals do not want the attention. So it is always worthwhile if the odds are not overwhelming get in first. go berserk.
Dicky Ticker
19-09-11, 12:45 PM
if the odds are not overwhelming get in first. go berserk.[/QUOTE]
Like the style Timbo :cool: possibly not the best advice for some,but I know what I would do, amazing what affect a swift kick on the kneecap has
SoulKiss
19-09-11, 12:52 PM
The very best form of self defense has to be avoid trouble in the first place
From the lips of a legend.
Best defence is no be there!
Macpauley
19-09-11, 01:06 PM
Enrol for a basic self defence course.
This..... I've been training in Krav Maga now for two years, quite simply the best self defense system out there, it's easy & quick to learn the basics.
Keeps me fit too!
:batman:
www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk (http://www.institute-kravmaga.co.uk)
just walk down the road at night talking to yourself interupted with loud shouts, maybe add in a twitch/tick and carry a 'pet' bag or empty box. no-ones ever going to attack the local crazy person!!!
err , avoid truoble, learn to defend yourself with your fists etc etc...
youre walking along one fine day, a car screeches to a halt ...someoine gets out, he's 6ft 2in , weighs about 15st, hands the size of a grapefruit...
"oi, you c****** , you cut me up down there two weeks ago, on that bike of yours , you >>>? , next time is see you i might just do something nasty to you etc etc "
so thanks for all your wise words, but sometimes trouble comes and finds you....
so the up shot so far, & my police bud just said i must report it , nothi else to do, is stcick your chest out, hold yopur head up, train night n day so your Bruce Lee inside and Bruce Forsyth outside....
i need a solution people ....:smt072
i need a solution people ....:smt072
Cayenne pepper? Works for me with dogs when I'm out cycling. I don't think there's a law against carrying condiments around with you.
i'll roughly quote something Stephen Fry said when dealing with his bullies at school,
"No, stop it don't do that you'll turn me on"
i'm sur that would freak your attacker out and stun them for a second or two
In all honesty i wouldn't go for a tool/weapon to defend yourself. I agree with the personal attack alarm, attract attention and deafen them with 130DB of the most annoying noise. Then leg it, you don't know who you could be dealing or what they are capable of or even what weapon they may be carrying.
[QUOTE=pete m;2604435]
"oi, you c****** , you cut me up down there two weeks ago, on that bike of yours , you >>>? , next time is see you i might just do something nasty to you etc etc " [QUOTE]
Thing is this guy knows who you are and if he was going to do anything it would have been there and then, he's just trying to scare you.
Dave20046
19-09-11, 02:05 PM
err , avoid truoble, learn to defend yourself with your fists etc etc...
youre walking along one fine day, a car screeches to a halt ...someoine gets out, he's 6ft 2in , weighs about 15st, hands the size of a grapefruit...
"oi, you c****** , you cut me up down there two weeks ago, on that bike of yours , you >>>? , next time is see you i might just do something nasty to you etc etc "
so thanks for all your wise words, but sometimes trouble comes and finds you....
so the up shot so far, & my police bud just said i must report it , nothi else to do, is stcick your chest out, hold yopur head up, train night n day so your Bruce Lee inside and Bruce Forsyth outside....
i need a solution people ....:smt072
That situation wouldn't make me want to tool up, 1 it could very well be an empty threat,2. IF they're likely to overpower you why bring a weapon into the mix, just try defuse the situation and see how it pans out.
Having seen a few too many knives and other weapons a bit too close up,mostly wielded by little ****s is the only thing that's made me consider it ...
tactcom7
19-09-11, 02:10 PM
Learn Krav Maga or Karap or something similar...All about self-defense and living to fight another day. None of this kick him while he's down stuff, quick disarms then scarper off home for tea and medals...
Dipper - agreed - and i like the solution - dirty great pepper pot , loosen the fast way in so you can throw it ....:cool:
but what gets me about this, is no-one has a proper solution to the problem ...i can see why people dont want everyone walking around with weapons etc for self defence , but i would feel a lot better if i could go down the local cop shop and say "look ive been threatened , i want to borrow / buy a panic alarm / pepper spray for a few weeks, if i use it on anyone else , do me, but if said giant knuckle dragger comes at me , i will be ready "....:takeabow:
keith_d
19-09-11, 02:22 PM
One of my school friends used to work on the BT vans and went into some pretty rough areas. They used to have a pickaxe handle tucked behind the drivers seat. There was a detached pickaxe head lying around in the van in case they were asked, "It fell apart last week and I've not been able to fix it constable". It never got fixed in all the years he was on the van, and having the gaffer come out with a pickaxe handle made most people think twice about giving the lad any trouble.
On a more practical note there are two things to take along. A positive attitude and the willingness to get stuck in. Probably the best things to keep trouble from happening around you.
.... So it is always worthwhile if the odds are not overwhelming get in first. go berserk.
Exactly. The best form of defence is offence, so attack or be attacked, it's your choice. :smt072
Question is , if the thread had been "Best means of self defence - legal or illegal " - would we have had a different discussion
Question is , if the thread had been "Best means of self defence - legal or illegal " - would we have had a different discussion
Yes. (What do I win?)
hindle8907
19-09-11, 03:16 PM
All those preaching "avoid trouble in the first place" its just not as simple as that . . . . Trouble can find you no matter who you are or where you come from.
I was coming out of my parents house last summer after a lovey family meal with my partner we was minding our own business making our way across to the car to go home, we both got in the car and my mum was putting some bags in the boot when a strange character walks up long side the car and lay his head in his arms and lent on the bonnet of the car.
I said to my mum through the window to just go inside after she finished in the boot.
We couldn't go anywhere with him on the bonnet as there was car was parked behind us so we lock the doors and my partner beeps the horn a few times and we get no response from the lad.
So I get out and said politely "mate your on the car and need to get up" I got no reply so I then tried to help him up when all of a sudden he bounces up and looks right into my eyes with pure aggression, he was high on something I could tell by the size of his pupils.
I step back and he comes charging at me, With my partner in the car I just seen red and dropped the ****.
He fell to the floor a few of the neighbors must of seen what had happened and eddie a big fella from over the way came running out with a mate of his.
The lad got up and seen that there was now three of us and starts mouthing off while walking back " next time i see you your dead ect ect ect" and off he went on his way.
I thanked the guys and a little bit shaken up went to make sure my mum was Ok and we waited a few minutes before going on our way.
What would I have done if this lad had a knife I had no where to go, I wasn't going to run off and leave my partner near this nutter.
Its quite an eye opener when something like this happens to you and when your in the situation your self it raises many questions in your head.
SoulKiss
19-09-11, 03:33 PM
All those preaching "avoid trouble in the first place" its just not as simple as that . . . . Trouble can find you no matter who you are or where you come from.
I know this - I had 3 youths try and mug me a few years back - all they took away from it was pain.
The point I am making is that it only went as far as punches, if I had pulled a weapon of any kind then who knows where it would have gone.
Would I have used it? Stabbed/Hit one of them, If I had, would I have killed them? Would I then have had to deal with retribution from his family/friends if I had? Would I have ended up in prison?
My point is keep the level of violence, if something develops that way, to a minimum - and if thats at threats, well Sticks and Stones...
hindle8907
19-09-11, 03:46 PM
Yeah I agree with all you just said mate, its just worrying that there are nutters about like in my case who have no motive and wouldn't think twice about pulling a knife out and using it.
And we have to try and protect our self's and loves ones with bare hands.
The world is a messed up place.
missyburd
19-09-11, 04:44 PM
The very best form of self defense has to be avoid trouble in the first place
Not always as easy as that when they decide to choose to ambush/take umbridge/pick on you because you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time :(
Hairspray/deodorant, can they do ya for reaching for the "first" thing you happened upon in your bag? Obviously pepper spray is bought with intent to use against someone.
Ah yes, the small can of hairspray. I'd forgotten about that; it was always the advice given when I was young. But that was too long ago!
Never had to use it mind
missyburd
19-09-11, 04:56 PM
Ah yes, the small can of hairspray. I'd forgotten about that; it was always the advice given when I was young. But that was too long ago!
Never had to use it mind
Aye, always was something my mum used to tell me to carry..well she still does :mrgreen:
littleoldman2
19-09-11, 05:12 PM
Liked the brolly idea, you could do a lot of damage with the right brolly and thugs probably know it. Might come in handy when it rains. The right dog works well.
missyburd
19-09-11, 05:13 PM
Or chop an arm off and use a prosthetic...bit extreme mind...
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 05:44 PM
You can't carry anything worth having.
Any knife of any use at all as a weapon will be too clumsy to get to because you won't be *rsed to practice using it and will be markedly obviously intended to be a weapon to any plod. And showing someone one won't help, because they know you won't use it. And if you use it successfully then you're going down. Justified self defence or not.
Big maglite is an excellent club and police-proof, great for the car but you can't carry one. And probably still worth an attempt by the Criminal Protection Service c***s to convict you if you were carrying one during the day :-P
Knuckleduster, pretty good, but by the time it comes to it, it won't matter. Same argument as for pointy stuff. Also negates your most effective first shot.
Sprays, hairspray won't be any use. Even proper pepper or CS isn't that great and you can't use it properly. And it's a sect 5 firearm. Some dye marker sprays available legally are also IMO useless. But you can take them apart and fill with pepperspray instead to pass a cursory police inspection.
So in a situation like the riots, unless you're a criminal you're f***ed, since our series of delightful governments have removed firearms from the law abiding. And as years of colonialism showed, the only way to deal with large groups of savages is with a sufficient volume of firepower.
Best weapon is probably a car, go on a defensive driving course and go nuts :)
As for normal life, stay out of sh*thole areas like the south, or bradford, keep your wits about you, remain alert to your surroundings. Avoid situations, if one develops then your options are basically talk your way out of it, front your way out of it or drop them.
missyburd
19-09-11, 06:17 PM
Sprays, hairspray won't be any use. Even proper pepper or CS isn't that great and you can't use it properly. And it's a sect 5 firearm. Some dye marker sprays available legally are also IMO useless. But you can take them apart and fill with pepperspray instead to pass a cursory police inspection.
Surely as a deterrent they are better than nothing? Even if it confuddles the git and gives you an all important 10 seconds to escape/assert a well aimed kick or similar?
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 06:54 PM
If you've got the presence of mind to keep it within a second of immediate use (pointing the right way, no fumbling...) then you're obviously switched on enough to not get in the situation in the first place. Effective range is going to be what, 6"? Less if it's windy. You're probably going to have to move TOWARD the threat to do that, which is mental. You'd be better off learning how to dial 999 in your pocket/bag and shouting "get the **** away from me" and sprinting away.
Although I will concede it may confuse them.
missyburd
19-09-11, 07:29 PM
Or you reaching into your handbag...making out its something much worse then BAM a bit of spray. It could work...
Red Herring
19-09-11, 07:56 PM
Train your brain before working on your fists. Trouble is rarely unannounced and the sooner you spot it coming the longer you have to avoid it. Bit like riding a motorcycle really. I appreciate that there are always going to be situations where you are really at risk but they are far rarer than most make out. If you start carrying something then you are part of the problem, and you won't win.
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 07:57 PM
and you won't win.
The police will make sure of it :smt040
Red Herring
19-09-11, 08:17 PM
The police will make sure of it :smt040
I didn't actually mean it that way, but unfortunately you're right. I see there's another case in the papers this week of a householder being nicked for looking after his house and family. Actually that's on topic, given they are saying the weapon used on him was his own....
-Ralph-
19-09-11, 08:19 PM
err , avoid truoble, learn to defend yourself with your fists etc etc...
so thanks for all your wise words, but sometimes trouble comes and finds you....
i need a solution people ....:smt072
F**k me, talk about asking for help then throwing the answers back at those that help you. ;)
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 08:24 PM
Not all bad, I think someone round here was recently released without charge after killing some thieving tw*t, so hopefully common sense will prevail.
A couple of self-protection authors refer to police as "the second enemy" (nothing personal :-P), and they've got a very good point with that. If anything happens obey the old commandment "Do unto others before they do unto you and then **** off before the police arrive".
Other point worth knowing is if nicked for fighting know how best to describe events favourably. Mentally prepare for it because some police can be right b*st*rds if they get the wrong end of the stick and think they can pin something on you. If in doubt don't say a word before you've had a good chat with a brief. You don't get convicted for what you do, you get convicted for what you say afterwards.
Red Herring
19-09-11, 08:27 PM
If in doubt don't say a word before you've had a good chat with a brief. You don't get convicted for what you do, you get convicted for what you say afterwards.
Crikey, those are some of the wisest words I've seen you write.....:)
fizzwheel
19-09-11, 08:36 PM
You don't get convicted for what you do, you get convicted for what you say afterwards.
That was very apparent to me when I did my jury service recently. The guy was a complete tool. I had some doubt in my mind that he had done what he said he had done and then he opened his mouth and dropped himself completely in it.
I reckon before that point we were 50 / 50 and after he had given his evidence, it was 11 - 1 guilty...
I would agree with the others, avoid it before it starts. I dont like the idea of carrying something around to "protect myself" I've never been in a situation where I never saw trouble coming, sometimes it really is best IMHO to turn around and remove yourself from the situation. Well thats what I've found over the years.
I learned over the years that if you behave like a victim you become one, so the other point about fronting it off and not looking scared is probably quite valid as well.
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 08:43 PM
It's the statement you give at first, IMO. Though it sounds like your feckwit will have dropped himself right in it with that too.
Well what I always reckoned was you had to seem confident enough in your defence at station level for it to go no further than that. If unlucky and it goes to CPS, a decent tale of reasonable force and honest belief of real and present danger to your safety (however creative :-P) is probably going to get it close enough to a draw that they won't push it.
The image you want to create is that you were an innocent civilian confronted with this screaming maniac and used reasonable force only as a last resort.
Of course the solution is not to be nicked in the first place. Or not end up scrapping in the first place. I've never weighed it up as a positive thing to go to the police in any case where you've successfully defended yourself. Too much risk of it going against you and no plus side.
Red Herring
19-09-11, 08:53 PM
......I've never weighed it up as a positive thing to go to the police in any case where you've successfully defended yourself. Too much risk of it going against you and no plus side.
That would rather depend on just how effectively you defended yourself....If they are going to end up in hospital that's going to lead to some enquiries being made and it would be a bit unfortunate if they led back to you.
fizzwheel
19-09-11, 08:54 PM
It's the statement you give at first, IMO. Though it sounds like your feckwit will have dropped himself right in it with that too.
He did, if you are going to lie you need to be consistent or at least remember what lies you told to who. He also tried to get his "mate" to lie in the dock but unfortunately his mate was also a f*ckwit and dropped them both in and the prosecution barrister had a field day with the pair of them.
Its a bit complicated to explain how he dropped himself in it, ask me about it when I see you next...
yorkie_chris
19-09-11, 09:01 PM
That would rather depend on just how effectively you defended yourself....If they are going to end up in hospital that's going to lead to some enquiries being made and it would be a bit unfortunate if they led back to you.
It would, but way I see it that just puts you in the same position you'd be in if you reported it.
I dunno, you'd probably look more innocent going to the police first. You probably know better than me if it would help your case at all. I don't think there is any legal reason to report it? Though I suppose not reporting it might be the difference between GBH and manslaughter, and they're likely to look harder with a corpse to explain. What do you reckon?
Red Herring
19-09-11, 09:20 PM
I know how I would treat someone who came to me to report an incident, unfortunately my view isn't necessarily very common amongst my more "modern" colleagues. If you're just pushed someone off, or even hit them the once, then I would suggest you have very little to fear. If on the other hand the only way you were able to stop them taking your watch was to beat them to death with a blunt instrument then you may not want to be found afterwards.
Personally when I'm at work I'm the type that goes looking for trouble and never walks away from a confrontation. In 25 years I've used my baton once and my spray a few times, but interestingly neither in the last 15 years. I've nicked literally scores of violent, obstructive and usually drunk individuals and even the odd hardened, determined criminal, and despite breaking the odd bone and inflicting the occasional gravel rash I've never been accused of using excessive force. On the negative side I've been hurt twice, once by his mate who I didn't see coming, and once by a girl because I dithered whilst deciding which bit to grab....
When off duty I don't go looking for trouble, so rarely find it. On the odd occasion I've come across something I've kept the force used in proportion to the problem and never had anything to fear, which brings me back to your wise words. I know what I need to say to justify what I have done.....but then maybe by knowing what I may have to say also influences just what I do.....
fizzwheel
19-09-11, 09:37 PM
The other thing about doing jury service made me realise is that I wouldnt want to go into court knowing what I had done might have been a bit iffy, I found it very intimidating and I was on the flippin jury. God knows what it would feel like to be in the dock knowing that perhaps in my heart I had hit somebody to hard and hurt them. I think I would feel bad enough if I had pushed somebody away and they had fallen awkwardly and banged their head, let alone if I had taken a baseball bat or something like that to somebody.
The thing I learnt about jury service is, if there isn't DNA or CCTV... you're in the clear.
Seems that the best place to live for this sort of thing is Manchester, where recently two people who have killed burglars have not been prosecuted, and it looks like a third is about to follow.
I have never been in that situation, so what do I know.
But FFS it's all insured, so is it really worth a human life?
Burglar maybe, but also somebody's son, somebody's dad, somebody's husband, somebody's brother.
timwilky
20-09-11, 07:02 AM
When I was attacked, I did things by the letter of the law, 3 times in court being messed about before we got before the magistrate, 9 months after the attack.
Despite broken nose requiring surgical correction, black eyes, lost front tooth, bruising to back, chest and groin. He gets a fine.
Next time, I think the pick axe handle as he struts home from the pub. He attacked me from behind whilst I was having a P in the toilets, why not attack him from behind. Quid pro quo.
My brother was thrown down a flight of stairs by 3 blokes, one who was held of his neck also fell with him, my brother landed on top and his attacker suffered a broken neck. My brother was charged with GBH despite the inspector at the police station saying it looks like the wrong person has been arrested. He pleaded not guilty at the magistrates and the case referred to crown court. Only when the 3 attackers were charged and convicted of assault on my brother did the crown not offer any evidence and withdrew the case with my brother in the crown court looking at a prison sentence. It was as if they were hoping he would cop for an early guilty plea to reduce sentance etc.
Morel, the system does not help/support the victim. vigilante justice may not achieve anything. But it feels damm good.
Dicky Ticker
20-09-11, 07:31 AM
The law is not always fair, many years ago I got attacked in Bradford and ended up DEFENDING myself against three people,consequence ,I got charged with ABH.
OK some of the retaliation may have been a bit "Street wise" and not "Marquis of Queensbury" but when you have three people attacking you you defend yourself the best way you know how.
Point being when you have three people saying you attacked them it is very hard to prove your innocence,especially when they are battered and bruised and you have a skinned knuckle.
The other side of the coin being do you take a hiding where it is difficult to prove which person inflicted which injury to you and the police are reluctant to charge anybody with affray so they get a lesser charge with a paltry fine.
I am WRONG but if somebody intends assaulting me[Putting in fear by definition] if I can't walk away I will do whatever is necessary irrelevant of the consequences
Red Herring
20-09-11, 08:11 AM
.... I will do whatever is necessary.....
And therein lies the key.....
yorkie_chris
20-09-11, 08:53 AM
But FFS it's all insured, so is it really worth a human life?
Pride and value in your property, your principles and your morals.
Yes it is worth a life. It's worth many of them.
And if 2 people break into your house with knives, while you're up and around watching TV. Are you willing to bet your life, literally, that they just want to nick stuff? You bet your families lives? You bet that they aren't going to kill you and then rape your missus and daughter? Are they insured?
No, I think I'd rather have the option to put a couple of rounds of 12 bore into them. But since we don't have that I suppose I'll have to settle for considering violent criminals being killed in the conduct of crime as acceptable and applaudable.
Unless your put in that situtation ,you don't know what was going throug the guys head or what actually happened.
Ok 6 stab wounds look like he got in a frenzy ,but we don't know .
Fear what could happened to his family is a big motivate.
Thats why having a noisy dog is a good deterant.
johnnyrod
20-09-11, 11:45 AM
To pick up Pete's question from the start and from a few pages back, he wants something that'll work. I'd love to say "get one of these" but as you've probably already figured out from the various tales above, there isn't one of those to buy. If you really are that worried then I'd agree with the others who say look at self defence classes. Nothing at all will guarantee you protection, you've just got to try to stack things in your favour, like (for example) not being in the wrong place at the wrong time (obviously, but it's all in the same vein), and knowing a lock or two if it comes to it.
really getting interesting now in here , i hope you all agree :cool:
Thats the point - you just dont know whhats going on in some peoples deranged heads , ive also had some one approach me and accuse me of something that happened 25 yrs ago ....and get seriously threatening about it....
Im amazed theres so little of the law on the side of the ordinary person whos picked on by random violence lovers , yet the bill have so little to boost your confidence that if things do turn physical, theres almost niothing to be done but make noise or run:smt019
yorkie_chris
20-09-11, 02:13 PM
Well that's not really true. If you are in fear for your personal safety you can use reasonable force to defend yourself or others.
It's just that the police are likely to try and shaft you for it later, but have your act together and don't go mental and the chances are you'll be fine. End of the day it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
hindle8907
20-09-11, 02:19 PM
. End of the day it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Amen .
tactcom7
20-09-11, 05:38 PM
slight derail but..
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/samaritan-commuter-stabbed-on-bus
littleoldman2
20-09-11, 05:50 PM
Re the original post, there's no problem carrying a walking stick or a brolly and I'm certain many of the ladies can use a heavy hand bag to good effect.
dizzyblonde
20-09-11, 06:05 PM
Re the original post, there's no problem carrying a walking stick or a brolly and I'm certain many of the ladies can use a heavy hand bag to good effect.
Especially really old ladies:mrgreen:
although the clip isn't self defense, it certainly shows how lethal a heavy old bag can be!
YI77KBCZ56c
littleoldman2
20-09-11, 06:29 PM
DB that's bloody priceless
dizzyblonde
20-09-11, 08:29 PM
I know :lol:
It first appeared on my news feeds on BT mail a couple of months back(seem toe recall putting up a thread), it beats having Mr Mayagi in your pocket!!!
Don't mention walking sticks to Rictus, as he got a tug last week for carrying one.;)
littleoldman2
21-09-11, 10:09 AM
Don't mention walking sticks to Rictus, as he got a tug last week for carrying one.;)
Yeah, read the thread, But I can't picture him with a brolly or hand bag.:)
Yeah, read the thread, But I can't picture him with a brolly or hand bag.:)
A nice orange hand bag to match the bike might work.;)
hindle8907
21-09-11, 12:04 PM
slight derail but..
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/samaritan-commuter-stabbed-on-bus
"and a white woman, approximately 5ft 3ins tall, with chunky build."
lol
Specialone
21-09-11, 01:57 PM
Remember this...
Skip to 2.30 for the best bit :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pjYGqPPMmA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sharp decisive blow to the adams apple works well.
Specialone
21-09-11, 02:00 PM
Or this, even better :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZDl_8NMZ_M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Burglar maybe, but also somebody's son, somebody's dad, somebody's husband, somebody's brother.
Somebody's pet scumbag.
Sorry, but if mine and my family's lives are in potential danger from an unknown person in my house and I feel like it's a me/mine or them situation, it is never ever going to be me or mine.
I probably wouldn't even call the police, just buy a big bag of lime and a shovel.
keith_d
21-09-11, 03:40 PM
Somebody's pet scumbag.
Sorry, but if mine and my family's lives are in potential danger from an unknown person in my house and I feel like it's a me/mine or them situation, it is never ever going to be me or mine.
I probably wouldn't even call the police, just buy a big bag of lime and a shovel.
1) Remember to use quicklime
2) Remember to shave off the hair and incinerate it
3) Remember to incinerate and crush the remaining bones once the lime has dissolved the soft tissue.
4) Don't tell anyone...... oops, too late!!
Keith.
gruntygiggles
21-09-11, 04:36 PM
My biggest fear in todays society is how disposable human life seems to be and that is why I will never take a chance on my safety or that of those around me. So...I won't get attacked walking alone down a quiet street in the dark. I won't get mugged whilst sat at an empty train station. I will always make other arrangements. I remember working at Gloucester RFC and needing to get the train home. There were only 3 people on the platform and I was the only female. There were no staff around and the two men were fairly young and not exactly trustworthy looking. I went back out and stood by the 6 odd manned taxis in the taxi rank. 3 minutes before my train was due, I asked in the taxi office if a driver would mind walking me to the platform while I got on the train due to the young lads there and no staff about...they were very happy to oblige and saw me on the train. Had it been a single taxi driver...I'd have probably just walked to the nearest pub and called National rail to find out where the flippin station staff were!
So...I'd most likely be a victim of the totally unannounced attack...like someone jumping out of the car next to me at traffic lights and into mine to steal it and do goodness knows what to me in the meantime. In that scenario, I would probably think, stuff the car...he's not got a seatbelt on and ram the car into the nearest brick wall.
If I were affronted...I don't even know if, in that situation I would have the mind or time to go rooting in my handbag for something to use against that person, so I would opt to either talk my way out of it...offer my money, cards, pin number etc and...SCREAM as loud as I could. Noise is apparently the very best deterrent.
I would imagine that if my life or the life of someone with me were at risk, that I would stop at nothing to save my/ourselves. Yes...I would kill rather than be killed if I could keep my mind clear enough to do so and not panic. If I then had to serve time...so be it...at least I am alive.
My strongest opinions are centered around people attempting to be good samaritans. Being stabbed to death for confronting kids damaging your car is a sign of the times...it is a car...call the police and stay inside. If it is a person, you have to make a judgement call. I have witnessed an horrific attack. It was many years ago and my judgement was that if I, an 18 year old who was alone...nobody else around had tried to fend off the 6 lads kicking seven shades of you know what out of someone...I would have suffered the same fate. So, I stood behind a pillar and called the police. I felt a great deal of guilt for not stepping in, but let me tell you, that lad was in hospital for a long time and my family were more than glad that I didn't get involved.
Yes...you should always be able to defend yourself, but if you can learn how to use your hands and body to do that, rather than carry something that could be used against you, I think you'd have a better chance of not being as badly hurt.
Stretchie is a good example...although he will probably kill me for writing this. I know full well that he is WELL capable of completely disabling a person and rendering them motionless and he can do it without even thinking about it. Ever tried tackling him to the ground? MBK has and she learned the hard way that he is WAY stronger and more cany than anyone would think.
Thing is, whilst he is well aware that he CAN immobilise someone with not much more than a slight bit of pressure and the use of some core muscles...he is also very realistic. He knows that it might not be so simple in a real threatening situation. He knows that he might, in that situation, freeze and not be able to think of anything...so he would never rely on that skill to help him out. He'd always opt for talking himself out of it.
We had a situation once after being rather dangerously chased on the bike (2 up) by a meat head in a mustang. Meathead wanted a fight, Dan just told him how he was right, we were wrong and how very sorry we were. It diffused the situation and nothing happened. Little did the meathead know that we were riding to the local police station hoping he would chase us all the way there so we could get him nicked!
I must add here that I sat on the back of the bike and stayed perfectly quiet...it is my opinion that MANY a situation is made worse by bl00dy women opening their mouths, thinking they know best and making things ten times worse.
Self defence classes are all well and good, but not if they give you false confidence. You may know self defence, but the attacker may have a gun. Save the heroics for video games and just try and talk your way out of it or run away screaming.
Those are my thoughts :-)
Milky Bar Kid
21-09-11, 05:00 PM
Oh thanks for bringing me into it...........
But yeh, he was like a brick wall.
missyburd
21-09-11, 05:11 PM
Good post GG.
I have been in a few situations like you speak of in your first paragraph, I used to travel a lot on public transport and travelling as a lone teenager always made me feel uneasy but I had no choice if I wanted to get an education! I also had to walk to bus stops early in the morning or evening when it was dark and very early on got into the habit of twirling round a full 360 in the middle of walking to check nobody was following. Probably looked bloody stupid to anyone else but it made me feel better. I used to have headphones in too (walking the same route everyday got SO tedious) but this twirling made sure I could keep an eye on my surroundings too. On a couple of occasions I have had people follow me and have had to act quickly by diverting down shortcuts and hiding behind buildings. Quite scary. I used to enjoy the rain because 1) I could carry a brolly without it looking weird and 2)noone was ever stupid enough to be out in it except me :D
Yes that is exactly what I meant by avoiding it. Even when confronted by the looney there are ways of talking to him/her that reduce the chances of getting thumped. I've (thumped.I@ve) never been threatened violently at school, even though we have one or two dodgy kids. If I confronted them with violence, weapons or threats when they kicked off, I'm certain they would reply with the same.
There are sensible precautions to take is vulnerable situations; the there are the placating ways to handle potentially violent individuals.
And also, don't do things that might pee people off that much. A couple of people have said that so and so came to find me after I did such and such. Well, why do such and such in the first place?
yorkie_chris
21-09-11, 05:37 PM
He knows that he might, in that situation, freeze and not be able to think of anything...so he would never rely on that skill to help him out. He'd always opt for talking himself out of it.
just try and talk your way out of it or run away screaming.
Those are my thoughts :-)
Agree with you mostly.
If violence is called for there should be no thinking involved, just bang them once on the jaw and get out of there. And it is only ever called for when the talking has failed.
k1ngy SV
21-09-11, 07:39 PM
I heard some interesting advice ages ago that you should shout FIRE! if you're being attacked as people are more likely to come & look / get involved if they think it's a fire but ignore someone being attacked. (horrible I know)
I heard that aswell.
1+:smt072
gruntygiggles
21-09-11, 09:11 PM
Agree with you mostly.
If violence is called for there should be no thinking involved, just bang them once on the jaw and get out of there. And it is only ever called for when the talking has failed.
+2
Heard that one as well.
Another one which made me giggle and there are a few like it is the acting crazy trick.
I love what MYC said about doing full 360 turns...I used to do that any time I had to go down a street in broad daylight on my own where it was the backs of houses and not the front. I would always think that I would have to run all the way to the end of the street and round the corner to be able to knock on someones door. I always preferred walking past the fronts of houses, lol.
MYC...I bet anyine who saw you would definitely think twice about attacking the local loony ;-)
gruntygiggles
21-09-11, 09:14 PM
Agree with you mostly.
If violence is called for there should be no thinking involved, just bang them once on the jaw and get out of there. And it is only ever called for when the talking has failed.
Yeah...he has been in that situation in Manchester...him and 1 friend completely unprovoked (you know Stretchie so you know he can't even provoke mild displeasure in anyone) jumped on by 4 blokes.
Stretchie and his mate walked away...they took a few hits, but gave out more and from what he said, there was no thinking time.
I guess that goes to show even more what a good head he has on his shoulders. Even though it has happened and he could more than take care of himself, he still won't rely on that knowledge and would always opt for diffusing the situation.
If you want a giggle though...just imagine it...he only weight about 9 stone at the time...lol:smt040
missyburd
22-09-11, 06:43 AM
MYC...I bet anyine who saw you would definitely think twice about attacking the local loony ;-)
Yep, mad as a box of frogs me :geek: Made me feel a lot safer though.
k1ngy SV
22-09-11, 05:46 PM
Today in a town centre *REAL* story.. Enjoy
Going down a escolater with 3 otheir mates on the same course as me,
nearly at the bottom.. A lad shouts down to me whos nearly at the top.. OI YOU LAUGHING AT ME!?
i just turn round wonder wtf is going on.. and BAM ! my blood boiled automaticaly (in rage for gettings *****s in the past doing similar things ) and i sew red litually, no controll over my own actions didnt even have adrenaline just blood boiled* .. **** OFFF !!!
he then shouts back down .. c'mon then il come down and ****ing hit you .. on them lines..
now iv just stepped off and actually reaslied whats happened.. and he walks?/dragged away,
& im there still shuck up(on my way to catch a bus home) ... hmm???
SoulKiss
22-09-11, 06:46 PM
Today in a town centre *REAL* story.. Enjoy
Going down a escolater with 3 otheir mates on the same course as me,
nearly at the bottom.. A lad shouts down to me whos nearly at the top.. OI YOU LAUGHING AT ME!?
i just turn round wonder wtf is going on.. and BAM ! my blood boiled automaticaly (in rage for gettings *****s in the past doing similar things ) and i sew red litually, no controll over my own actions didnt even have adrenaline just blood boiled* .. **** OFFF !!!
he then shouts back down .. c'mon then il come down and ****ing hit you .. on them lines..
now iv just stepped off and actually reaslied whats happened.. and he walks?/dragged away,
& im there still shuck up(on my way to catch a bus home) ... hmm???
I have absolutely no idea what you were trying to say there except that I think it may have involved oysters...
I have absolutely no idea what you were trying to say there except that I think it may have involved oysters...
I struggled with that one to...
However, I have always gone with the fact, the person is going to hit you, don't wait for it, hit him first and don't let him get up. It's always worked for me.
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.216991,0.245485
k1ngy SV
22-09-11, 07:53 PM
I'l have to make a thread about it tomorrow,
mind isnt in the right place:smt072
yorkie_chris
22-09-11, 10:34 PM
When you've provoked a fight and then admitted to losing self control it's probably best you don't talk about it on an open forum.
gruntygiggles
22-09-11, 11:11 PM
When you've provoked a fight and then admitted to losing self control it's probably best you don't talk about it on an open forum.
+1
Sometimes just responding to that kind of attitude is enough to provoke a nasty reaction.
k1ngy SV
23-09-11, 05:04 PM
+1
Sometimes just responding to that kind of attitude is enough to provoke a nasty reaction.
yeah but nothing i could do, instinks took over me :cyclopsani:
Milky Bar Kid
24-09-11, 06:47 AM
yeah but nothing i could do, instinks took over me :cyclopsani:
Instinct my dear, instinct.
tactcom7
24-09-11, 01:57 PM
My dad always used to say, I don't mind you getting in a fight, as long as you only hit them if they hit you first.
Bad bad advice, perhaps he was trying to tell me something...
hongman
24-09-11, 02:51 PM
I'm a peaceful soul, I pretty much always manage to avoid confontations. I dont know how, but I think spending 90% at work and 10% at home is mostly to do with it.
I haven't had a fight since I was in school, over a decade ago. I've done plenty of shouting mind.
I do admit though, I fear for my kids. Growing up in today's society is no longer have a smash up and best man wins. It's who gets stabbed/shot/murdered.
not had a full look through all pages of this, but surely a can of Deep Heat has got to be a good one to use, its not an offensive weapon and it bloody stings like mace if it gets in your eyes or mouth.
Supervox
24-09-11, 05:07 PM
Hairspray/deodorant, can they do ya for reaching for the "first" thing you happened upon in your bag?
This works especially well if you're a smoker or just in the habit of carrying a lighter around with you :cool:
SoulKiss
24-09-11, 05:34 PM
not had a full look through all pages of this, but surely a can of Deep Heat has got to be a good one to use, its not an offensive weapon and it bloody stings like mace if it gets in your eyes or mouth.
As a readily available product it may be ok to carry, but use it and you might find it to be another thing completely...
Electro
24-09-11, 06:52 PM
U dont need to carry anything, use ur head, great tool :)
I`ve read most of this thread and the op gets verbals from a driver because he claims he was cut up. A little `aww sorry mate i didnt mean to` may have gone a little way to heal the guys attitude. I walk away from any fight till there is no other course of action then its game on. I have talked down more than i have hit because its the more sensible thing to do. Basic self defence helps and stay calm and in control, I`ve been ran at with iron bars, bike u locks, a baseball bat and a screwdriver, none of them hit me with any force and all of the idiots wanting to do me in failed.
...well you are a bit bigger than most:D
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