Winter tyres - yay or nay

[Gazza77]

I'm after some first hand of people who've used them as to there benefits, really as per the title. Living 900 feet above sea level in the pennines, and with a 32 mile round trip of a commute up and down steep and twisty roads, I want the best safety over winter possible, but not at any cost.

As a bit of background to my thinking, for the past two years, I've had a Suzuki Grand Vitara, which was fitted with a set of AT tyres. This coped fine in the snow, but in frozen/slush/wet etc always felt a little skittish, especially when braking downhill when the abs felt to kick in a little too often for my liking.

The Suzuki has now gone, and in it's place is a Nissan X-trail. This has 3 M&S all season tyres on it with about 6mm tread, and thanks to the helpful dealer I bought it off, it has one brand new summer tyre. For the driving I'm doing at present, this combination whilst not ideal will suffice, but I'm not so sure once it gets a bit colder. If I do get winter tyres however, these will be stored and used up next summer to get full use of them.

Is it worth switching to a set of winter tyres, or is the cost greater than the benefit over what I have at present?

[ravingdavis]

If you are going to be using the vehicle in all conditions I would suggest getting winter tyres. Supposedly they are superior in all conditions once the temperature drops below 7 degrees and not just in snow etc. I've driven vehicles in Germany with snow tyres on and the difference in grip in adverse conditions is pretty big. I personally will not be using winter tyres as if it snows or the conditions make the road unsafe, the car just wont be moving and I will work from home.

edit: In the long run winter tyres wont really cost you too much extra as your summer tyres receive less use during winter months and therefore wont need replacing quite so soon.

[embee]

Don't know what your current ones will be like, but I've had a set of Goodyear UG5 winter tyres for my Yaris for several years now. They live stored in the garage roof until end Nov/early Dec.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh268/Hi-vis/IMG_3799Small.jpg

They are a very big benefit on snow, can't be exaggerated how much better than summer tyres. Also on slushy/wet roads the clearance is so much better. Guide is that the compound comes into it's own below about 7C.

I was unfortunate enough to do about 15mls on black ice a couple of years ago, freak conditions when damp road froze over suddenly. It still felt very hairy, but at least I knew I probably had a decent shot at getting home in one piece (which I in fact did).

Living where you are, I'd say yes.

[Gazza77]

I personally will not be using winter tyres as if it snows or the conditions make the road unsafe, the car just wont be moving and I will work from home.

Working from home won't be an option unless my NHS employer suddenly gets a huge amount of money from somewhere to provide me with the technology to be able to do so sadly. :(

[dizzyblonde]

General grabber UHPs are going on the Freelander.....cheapest we can get, best we can put on it,. ...they just never seem to be in stock when we have the money for them, in our size! They're the mutts nuts of tyres for landies .. . ..apparently. At £126 a piece fully fitted.
Don't see the point of specific winter tyres when those will do the job rather well. We have rubbish Pirelli Scorpion ATs and they've done perfectly well, when everyone else is stuck ....we ain't...they come in at over 150 fitted. :(

And I live ont opposite hill to Gazza.......not seen you on your bike yet, and I do tend to wander about there a bit too ;)

[Kilted Ginger]

I looked at winter tyres for my xtrail but after speaking to luckypants and a bit research of xtrail forums and tyre forums opted for General Grabbers.
They are what all the utility companies run on their 4x4s for the winter.
I (after much searching) managed to get a spare set of wheels and fitted the winter tyres to these which will let me put them on / off as the weather dictates without paying the local fitter £50

[Gazza77]

I looked at winter tyres for my xtrail but after speaking to luckypants and a bit research of xtrail forums and tyre forums opted for General Grabbers.
They are what all the utility companies run on their 4x4s for the winter.
I (after much searching) managed to get a spare set of wheels and fitted the winter tyres to these which will let me put them on / off as the weather dictates without paying the local fitter £50

Unfortunately, Nissan in their infinite wisdom decided to fit wheels to the 07 on X Trails in sizes that AT tyres such as the Grabbers aren't available in. :rolleyes: The only ATs made that I can find are Yoko G012s, and that's what I had on the Suzuki.

[dizzyblonde]

Would the UHPs fit?

[Gazza77]

General grabber UHPs are going on the Freelander.....cheapest we can get, best we can put on it,. ...they just never seem to be in stock when we have the money for them, in our size! They're the mutts nuts of tyres for landies .. . ..apparently. At £126 a piece fully fitted.
Don't see the point of specific winter tyres when those will do the job rather well. We have rubbish Pirelli Scorpion ATs and they've done perfectly well, when everyone else is stuck ....we ain't...they come in at over 150 fitted. :(

And I live ont opposite hill to Gazza.......not seen you on your bike yet, and I do tend to wander about there a bit too ;)

I'd have thought the UHPs would be very summer specific tyres DB, are you sure you don't mean General Grabbers, which I understand are very good AT ones?

Edit: no, UHPs not available in the right size anyway.

As for the bike, don't get out on it as much as I'd like, not enough hours in the day. When I do, I don't tend to ride it round and round the house though, so you wouldn't have seen me on it unless just heading out or getting back. :p

[fizzwheel]

I would have suggested the grabbers, but as you've already found out they dont fit, I shant !

Saying that we have a set on our 4 x 4 and havent had any problems in the winter... Liz was reading on another forum the the Grabber UHP that Dizzy was saying about dont give as good grip in off road conditions as the AT2's though.

I looked at Winter tyres for our Audi, but in the size it needs they are IMHO prohibaitvely expensive, so I'm going to get a set of these instead.

http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Might be a cheaper option than shelling out for new tyres ? I know you'd need four for the xtrail though to really make the most of it..

[dizzyblonde]

Its what the winged one has been wanting on the car all year.


What are the toyos like? We can't get any grabbers in our size, so thats the next choice as far as cash is concerned.

[Kilted Ginger]

Gazza get a set of steel wheels 16" from a primera. same size and spacing as xtrail. These are pretty common at scrappys unlike xtrail wheels. unfortunately i only found out that nugget after buying the 16" alloys. mines a T30 as well (01-07)
yours will be 215 60 17. you need 16 inch wheels with 215 70 16 grabbers

[Gazza77]

I would have suggested the grabbers, but as you've already found out they dont fit, I shant !

Saying that we have a set on our 4 x 4 and havent had any problems in the winter... Liz was reading on another forum the the Grabber UHP that Dizzy was saying about dont give as good grip in off road conditions as the AT2's though.

I looked at Winter tyres for our Audi, but in the size it needs they are IMHO prohibaitvely expensive, so I'm going to get a set of these instead.

http://www.autosock.co.uk/

Might be a cheaper option than shelling out for new tyres ? I know you'd need four for the xtrail though to really make the most of it..

I did think of those, the main concern is slushy and frozen conditions however, and I don't think a set of those would last long then. Plus taking them on and off all the time as conditions changed all the time I reckon would be a right royal pain.

I'm currently looking at getting some Nokian WRG2 SUVs, which although not cheap, come highly rated. They are also suitable for use all year round (according to their US website at least), so shouldn't wear too badly if kept on longer than intended. I do around 10k per year in the 4*4, and around 6-7k of that is between October and March, so winter performance is more important to me than summer.

[Gazza77]

Its what the winged one has been wanting on the car all year.


What are the toyos like? We can't get any grabbers in our size, so thats the next choice as far as cash is concerned.

Toyo's: no idea. I had Yokohama Geolander AT/S, which were good in the snow and wet, but I found used to make the abs kick in a bit quick if it was just cold but dry.

[Gazza77]

Gazza get a set of steel wheels 16" from a primera. same size and spacing as xtrail. These are pretty common at scrappys unlike xtrail wheels. unfortunately i only found out that nugget after buying the 16" alloys. mines a T30 as well (01-07)
yours will be 215 60 17. you need 16 inch wheels with 215 70 16 grabbers

Mine's a T31 though; 2008 model.

[Kilted Ginger]

Unfortunately, Nissan in their infinite wisdom decided to fit wheels to the 07 on X Trails in sizes that AT tyres such as the Grabbers aren't available in. :rolleyes: The only ATs made that I can find are Yoko G012s, and that's what I had on the Suzuki.

Mine's a T31 though; 2008 model.

make your mind up mate:confused:

If you go to the xtrail forum there are spec sheets for wheel size, hole spacing etc. iirc they are still the same size 0n the 30 or 31 but could be wrong.

[fizzwheel]

What actual size are they, I know you said 17" but what width and side profile.

I think its 225/55/17 but not 100% sure...

[Jordy]

They're well worth it if you can get hold of em, some sizes will be difficult to get. Even the council around where I used to work payed for all their fleet vehicles to have them and fitted/swapped; November - March.

[Gazza77]

make your mind up mate:confused:

If you go to the xtrail forum there are spec sheets for wheel size, hole spacing etc. iirc they are still the same size 0n the 30 or 31 but could be wrong.

As I said: "on the 07 on model" (the T31 was launched in 2007). ;)

As far as I can see, the X trail forum fitment guide doesn't cover the T31.

http://www.x-trail-uk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=3664

I'm happy to be corrected if you can point me in the right direction though.

The size required is as you said however, 215/60/17, so it would just depend on the offset, etc being correct.

[fizzwheel]

Just had a quick peak at Kwik Fit, would these not do ?

Continental 4x4 Winter Contact, Tyre Size 215/60H17, Winter Tyre 4x4 Tyre

Not as cheap as the Grabber though, I think I paid £90 a corner for our last ones, the Continentals according to Kwik Fit are £154 fitted, but I bet you could get cheaper than that.

[Gazza77]

Just had a quick peak at Kwik Fit, would these not do ?

Continental 4x4 Winter Contact, Tyre Size 215/60H17, Winter Tyre 4x4 Tyre

Not as cheap as the Grabber though, I think I paid £90 a corner for our last ones, the Continentals according to Kwik Fit are £154 fitted, but I bet you could get cheaper than that.

They probably would suffice, however which winter tyre to get isn't quite the question. There are a few options of winter tyres available in the right size, including the Nokian's from an earlier post, it's whether or not they offer enough benefit to warrant a £600 expense. The Grabber would have been an alternative as an AT that is supposedly excellent in cold weather, (and to be honest, what I'd probably have gone for) however as they don't make them in the right size, that's sadly not an option.

[Kilted Ginger]

lol, must be one of teh first 31's then mines an 08 30. i may have printed off the spec sheet when i was looking, i'll have a look when i get home, may be quicker if you have a scrappy nearby with a primera, drive down and tyr a wheel ;)

[Gazza77]

lol, must be one of teh first 31's then mines an 08 30. i may have printed off the spec sheet when i was looking, i'll have a look when i get home, may be quicker if you have a scrappy nearby with a primera, drive down and tyr a wheel ;)

It is a fairly early one, same as your's is a fairly late one.

If you could look it would be good thanks, cheers, and thanks to all that have offered opinions and advice so far. :cool:

[fizzwheel]

it's whether or not they offer enough benefit to warrant a £600 expense.

Sure I get you, I supposed it depends on what value you put on being able to get around if we have another winter like the last two have been.

Remember winter tyres wont just give you grip in snow / ice, they'll also work better on a dry road when the temperature drops. as IIRC they give better grip at lower temperatures than a summer tyre does due to the compounds being different in a winter tyre.

[Gazza77]

Sure I get you, I supposed it depends on what value you put on being able to get around if we have another winter like the last two have been.

Remember winter tyres wont just give you grip in snow / ice, they'll also work better on a dry road when the temperature drops. as IIRC they give better grip at lower temperatures than a summer tyre does due to the compounds being different in a winter tyre.

Nail, head, hit. ;)

That's my main concern, as that's what the conditions may well be like. The roads are often ploughed and gritted, thus bloody slippery!

[G]

I'd be tempted if I didn't enjoy slidding about in a rear wheel drive so much.

I work in Denmark/Germany/Norway etc and in a few of the EU countries I work, winter tyres are mandatory. The cars we have over there have winter tyres on from end of November until April time and they make a massive difference. The start to make a noticable difference at around 7c.

I just can't bring myself to buy some over here for the relatively infrequent snow/ice we have.

[Mr Speirs]

I'd be tempted if I didn't enjoy slidding about in a rear wheel drive so much.


Yeah...how did that work out for you last winter? I seem to remember you being unable to leave your estate for nearly 2 weeks! :)

[dizzyblonde]

If we can't get we want grabber wise round here, then we'll prob go for the Pirellis again. They've done two winters and haven't failed, when everyone else around us have.....but they flex and squish, so the sidewalls don't last as long as you would wish.

Meh, I hate 4x4 tyre shopping :(

[Gazza77]

If we can't get we want grabber wise round here, then we'll prob go for the Pirellis again. They've done two winters and haven't failed, when everyone else around us have.....but they flex and squish, so the sidewalls don't last as long as you would wish.

Meh, I hate 4x4 tyre shopping :(

Have to admit, I wish I could get them for around £60 a corner like I can for the MX5.

Maybe I ought to just take the in-laws approach, they just go to the local garage they use for all repairs, ask for tyres and they fit some. It's a good place, so I would expect them to get decent tyres and they seem happy enough. Maybe I just think too much. :shaking2:

[cb1000rsteve]

I fitted winter tyres to the front my focus (FWD) last winter and never got struck anywhere and i had a 35 mile commute to and from work. I've still got them fitted and theres loads of life left in them too!! Only down side is the front pushes a bit in the wet. For work i drive a Hi lux fitted with normal tyres and last winter in never got stuck anywhere on or off road, and its loaded with tools and gear!!! Its all about how you drive not what your driving on. To many people start spinning the wheels then to get more grip accellerate!! And ABS should be turned off in snow. Its more of a hinderance than a help in snow!! The Audi Q7 actually stops by locking the front wheels slightly to make a build up of snow to help stop it?? Don't know how it works but it does!

[dizzyblonde]

Have to admit, I wish I could get them for around £60 a corner like I can for the MX5.

Maybe I ought to just take the in-laws approach, they just go to the local garage they use for all repairs, ask for tyres and they fit some. It's a good place, so I would expect them to get decent tyres and they seem happy enough. Maybe I just think too much. :shaking2:

We've got the damn thing in a new local 4x4 specialist at the moment, literally round the corner from our house, having the ABS sensor done...it got mauled! See what he can come up with tomorrow.
Nice chap, biker, all good especially as his lass used to have an SV :p

[Gazza77]

We've got the damn thing in a new local 4x4 specialist at the moment, literally round the corner from our house, having the ABS sensor done...it got mauled! See what he can come up with tomorrow.
Nice chap, biker, all good especially as his lass used to have an SV :p

I use the same place as the in-laws for servicing/MOT etc. Last tyres I had were from these guys, good service and price.
http://www.ids-tyres.co.uk/

[G]

Yeah...how did that work out for you last winter? I seem to remember you being unable to leave your estate for nearly 2 weeks! :)

Exactly, hence the statement...


I just can't bring myself to buy some over here for the relatively infrequent snow/ice we have.

No winter tyre would get you out of this when you front bumper is acting as a plough 15cm below the surface lol, even the neighbours freelander on snowchains couldn't move.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/162960_469412909836_502519836_5299853_28827_n.jpg

[-Ralph-]

wR1SSxpKitE

4 minutes 30.

If traction control will get you up that, is there any point in buying a set of snow socks on a car with TC?

[fizzwheel]

Interesting. We live halfway up a 10 - 15% in places hill. I couldnt get the Audi up it last year. TC on or TC off. It was better with the TC off, but it ran out of traction and I decided discretion was the better part of valour and left the car on a neighbours drive for a few days until the temperature warmed up a bit and the snow / ice melted off.

It was OK in the fresh Snow, but once it had become hard and compacted it had no grip at all. I think its the Auto Box, plus heavy car, plus 255 / 35 / 19" soft sports tyres it fitted that is the main cause of it.

The Focus we had before was no problem to get in and out with, just thinking the snow socks would allow Liz to get home again if she took the Audi to work and it snowed during the day, she works in the middle of nowhere and would have to cover a fair few miles of untreated roads to get back to the A345 / A303 to get home.

[-Ralph-]

My driveway is steep, and I drive all over the country, so I can come out in the morning and find myself unable to get off the driveway, or I can go somewhere in the morning, and be sliding all over a car park, or stranded somewhere 200 miles away by the afternoon. I'd buy snow socks to leave in the boot if I thought they would be effective.

I don't even know if I can switch off the TC in the Toyota. I know there is a button to switch off the stability control, maybe this is the same button.

[fizzwheel]

The video on the snow snocks website seems to show that they would be, ( but then it would wouldnt it )

They arent huge money and we dont get the weather down here that you do up there. I looked earlier on and they do do Winter tyres in the size for our Audi, but they are £300 a corner FFS. Liz is OK if she goes to go to work in the morning and its snowed as we have the Maverick and she can take that and I can either walk into work or I used her mountain bike last year and cycled in on that. So I cant justify in my mind the expense of winter tyres for the Audi TBH.

[Gazza77]

The video on the snow snocks website seems to show that they would be, ( but then it would wouldnt it )

They arent huge money and we dont get the weather down here that you do up there. I looked earlier on and they do do Winter tyres in the size for our Audi, but they are £300 a corner FFS. Liz is OK if she goes to go to work in the morning and its snowed as we have the Maverick and she can take that and I can either walk into work or I used her mountain bike last year and cycled in on that. So I cant justify in my mind the expense of winter tyres for the Audi TBH.

As you said earlier, comes down to how dependent you are on using it to get around.

I'll put money on the Jag on 5th Gear not being on a set of summer tyres...

[Bluepete]

Do you want to hear something funny?

Our traffic unit consists of BMW 330's and X5's with a couple of Discoveries.

The 330's get grounded when it snows, and the job won't pay for winter tyres on the X5's and Disco's.

So in the winter - no traffic unit!

Pete ;)

[Tim in Belgium]

For 2wd = Yay from me.

[DarrenSV650S]

Quick thread revival question....

There are some winter tyres on gumtree which are 185/60 R15. My golf has 185/65 R15 tyres. Any major problems with fitting them?

[BanannaMan]

Quick thread revival question....

There are some winter tyres on gumtree which are 185/60 R15. My golf has 185/65 R15 tyres. Any major problems with fitting them?





No, just remember you'll need 4 if it's an AWD car.

[Tim in Belgium]

You'll want 4 even if its FWD, otherwise cornering becomes interesting. Also if they're second hand check the tread depth, ideally to function in snow you want >5mm, may be more.

[punyXpress]

" If traction control will get you up that, is there any point in buying a set of snow socks on a car with TC? "
First thing I do when coming across a slope like that is switch ESP OFF!
It works by braking the spinning wheel ( a bit like LCD* - a Labour Government ) and at the slightest wheelspin the system takes over until it stalls the engine. WTF!
* LCD = lowest common denominator
re Darren's query: fit the narrowest, highest profile tyres you can. Something like a Morris 1000 on real skinny tyres is probably better than all the electronics on the real world.
The greatest equaliser is other traffic - if that dont move nor do you!

[DarrenSV650S]

It's a set of 4 with at least 6mm on each. Just negotiating price now :)

[NTECUK]

Snow socks work well.

[Dicky Ticker]

You mention the ABS,can you not switch it off in adverse conditions if it is causing a problem,even if it is just removing the fuse.?

[NTECUK]

Most cars you would have to remove the fuse.

[dizzyblonde]

Can't switch the ABS off on my car. If one of the sensors goes, it flashes up on the dash, and is an MOT failure...........and costs an arm and a leg :(



I love my car :)

[Bluefish]

our car has tc and the esp, will be interesting to see if it will get up the hill to our house :rolleyes:

[daved407]

We have to have winter tyres by law. Seems a bit vague exactly when they must be fitted but if you are impeding the flow of traffic its a on the spot fine. Guide dates Are O to O (October to Ostern (Easter))

Found a good vid on you tube last year showing 3 similer cars with winter, summer and all season tyres. All season tyres are never best option anytime of year. Fitting only to the driving axle is not recommended, should be both whether FWD, RWD or even AWD

4 mm tread is legal minimum for winter tyres and my T4 VW gets everywhere with the cheapish winter tyres on it. The shopping cart is a 2005 Colt and both have had same winter tyres since 2005. Swopping them works well every O to O and having steelies means the alloys always look their best for the warmer months.

As someone said last year in UK changing tyres is a modification and their insurance wanted increased premiums for that. Final point is that if you are the only person on the road with winter tyres. You cant get to your destination as the roads will be blocked by people with the wrong footwear on..

[Tim in Belgium]

Out of interest what winter tyres do you have fitted to the T4? size/make model? I've just got some steel wheels for the winter and now need to get it some tyres.

[daved407]

Van is a 99 2.5 102 PS TDI with 317,000 Km.
Tyres are MAXIS WINTERMAX LT size 195\70\15 18PR 104\102R

My Mum visited last Christmas and was amazed we were carrying on as normal yet UK was almost at standstill.

[Tim in Belgium]

Thanks for that.

[chrisinflight]

I had japanese Bridgestone Blizzaks snow tyres on my toyota starlet turbo. Apart from the obvious advantage of front wheel drive on a lightweight car with an autobox they were fantastic. I did not hesitate to drive in any amount of snow or ice and the car behaved like a 4wd. Even better than the hilux 4x4 I used the previous winter.
cheers,
chris

[Berlin]

I fitted some of these maxxis tyres (http://www.maxxis.com/AutomobileLight-Truck/Light-Truck-SUV/MA-761-Bravo-Series.aspx) to the van for last winter and I was commuting between Edinburgh and Yorkshire weekly and never once got stuck. Even when Edinburgh had 4 feet of snow! I got to everywhere I wanted to go. I did have to run then 10psi down at times on ice with the van fully loaded but they were superb tyres for 40 quid a pop fitted!

Highly recommended!

C

[punyXpress]

. . or try these: http://www.reifen.com (http://www.reifen.com/)
they may be in Germany but could still be cheaper than here. (http://www.reifen.com/)