Insurance - 'is this fraud' type question

[Dave20046]

Think I know the answer to this but it's ****ing me off:

Since moving house to a nicer area last year my renewal has gone up over £700, I've asked them to put in a clause not covering it if stolen from the new address but they won't. If I put down a different address or 'kept at' address does it actually completely void my insurance or only in theft claims?

Would love to find a loophole out of this, but if not just needed to vent as it's ridiculously frustrating. It's a nicer area in my book; just the postcode spans a lot further so shares with one scummy bit miles away (actually closer to my old address). I don't even want the theft cover but it has to be comprehensive to cover my business use.

[Jabba]

It would be fraud if you knowingly made a false declaration.

Honesty is the best policy (no pun intended).

[Dave20046]

I know and I intend on it, hence the many thousands of pounds I've spent on motor insurance in recent years - just after a legal loophole or clever idea. (aka clutching at straws!)

[Dave20046]

...or if I could put down a slightly fraudulent address 100% safe in the knowledge that it'd only adversely affect myself - i.e only voids the theft side of things. But I imagine if that was the case they'd hide it from you.

[squirrel_hunter]

The only thing I would say is according to the company providing me with car insurance, this is fraud and is on the increase so they are clamping down on it. I only know this as I had some problems convincing them of my address.

My renewal coincided with me moving house so when I provided a copy of my license they spotted it had a different address on it to where I am insuring the car from. They required within 30 days a utility bill or a bank statement. I told them as I just moved they I didn't know when I'd get a utility bill (I still haven't but thats another story), and asked why they wanted a bank statement. To prevent fraud I was told. So I replied that I would not provide them with a copy of my bank statement to... prevent fraud.

Eventually they settled for a redacted copy mobile phone bill. Basically all they required was my name and address on a company headed paper, and thats what they got. For all they know I could have photochoped it from the net, a fact I pointed out to them. They also couldn't see the reasoning that as I was answering the letters they were sending to my address surly that would imply that I have an association with that address.

Anyway if you want to play with your address on your insurance they may ask some questions so be prepared.

[cluffy]

I insured the bike from my home adresse even though the bikes kept at my brothers about 4 miles away, for me to insure it as me living at home but the bike kept away in a quieter part of town garaged up they wanted another £600 :confused:, If it gets robbed i dont see why i wouldnt have just been spending the night at his house as far as they'd know? I supose honesty is the best policy but its usually the expensive option, either way if it comes to claiming off the insurance they'll prob try talking their way out of it anyway so whats a bit more haggling and jaggling with them i suppose.

Danny.

[Stenno]

£700??? Strewth. Go elsewhere?

[Dave20046]

£700??? Strewth. Go elsewhere?

THe difference is similar elsewheres,its mad

[Whyte25]

Have you tried wicked quotes? I got £330 tpft with commuting on a 58 plate GSXR 750 with 2 yrs NCB and being parked on a public road.

Someone mentioned them on here ages ago so i thought i`d get them to "quote me happy" :-)

[Neeja]

To prove fraud, you need to be able to say that someone:
1) made a false representation
2) dishonestly
3) knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
4) with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

Given that you are falsely representing your address (which is obviously dishonest), knowing that it is not truly where you are keeping the bike, and are intending to gain from it (in the form of lower premium), and that you are exposing the insurance company to more risk (maybe not by your definition, and maybe not sensibly, but by their risk-assessment), yes, you are committing fraud.

With regards to this voiding your policy, strictly speaking, yes this will. By not disclosing all material facts, you have taken out a policy without adhering to the principles of uberrima fides (utmost good faith), rendering the contract unenforceable (while allowing the insurance company to keep all your premiums).

In practical terms, however, if the claim was not for theft (or was for theft but not while at your home address), and your insurer is regulated by the Financial Ombudsman Service and you took it to them as a complaint in the event of a claim, it is possible that they would rule that you could pay the additional premium to bring your policy cover up to a point where you would have been covered anyway. However, given the large difference in premium cost, I think that this would be very unlikely.

In short, don't lie to your insurance company, or if you do, don't claim. At all. They employ people like me to find and detect fraud :)

[Dave20046]

To prove fraud, you need to be able to say that someone:
1) made a false representation
2) dishonestly
3) knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
4) with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

Given that you are falsely representing your address (which is obviously dishonest), knowing that it is not truly where you are keeping the bike, and are intending to gain from it (in the form of lower premium), and that you are exposing the insurance company to more risk (maybe not by your definition, and maybe not sensibly, but by their risk-assessment), yes, you are committing fraud.

With regards to this voiding your policy, strictly speaking, yes this will. By not disclosing all material facts, you have taken out a policy without adhering to the principles of uberrima fides (utmost good faith), rendering the contract unenforceable (while allowing the insurance company to keep all your premiums).

In practical terms, however, if the claim was not for theft (or was for theft but not while at your home address), and your insurer is regulated by the Financial Ombudsman Service and you took it to them as a complaint in the event of a claim, it is possible that they would rule that you could pay the additional premium to bring your policy cover up to a point where you would have been covered anyway. However, given the large difference in premium cost, I think that this would be very unlikely.

In short, don't lie to your insurance company, or if you do, don't claim. At all. They employ people like me to find and detect fraud :)

So is that a 100% yes it will void the entire policy? :confused::p

They're ****s, genuinely hope anyone that believes this system is fair meets an unfortunate end very soon. It's ridiculous how can living somewhere else put it up £700! Why won't they just do away with the theft cover?....because they know I'm over a barrel.


....yeah that's right I'm back to doing quote after quote whilst working out where to pull the ransom money from....
:lol:

[Red Herring]

Insurance fraud, and the detection of it, is growing business. I've just spent a couple of days at Silverstone and got speaking to one of the operations managers there. They are in almost daily contact with insurance companies who ask them to check their records for track incidents. Given we all fill in forms with our names, DOB and addresses on them whenever we do a trackday and that circuits log every incident that happens on (or is that off!) the circuit you wouldn't have to be a mastermind to see why they ask.... especially when the assessor looks at the vehicle and finds freshly fried tyres and gravel still in the belly pan. Actually he said the car drivers were far worse than the bikers, but then if I had just reversed £80,000 of Porsche into the wall at Woodcote I guess I might be tempted to find someone else to pay for it....

Slight derail, but bottom line is it's just not worth the risk. Having said that £700 is a huge hike, it's more than twice what I pay for all my bikes together.... I'm guessing you're shopped around?

[yorkie_chris]

RH £700 seems pretty average given that the insurance industry seems bent on ensuring everyone either goes out and breaks the law or has no chance of going about their business. C***s.

Not bitter about the £3000 van insurance quotes... not at all...


They also couldn't see the reasoning that as I was answering the letters they were sending to my address surly that would imply that I have an association with that address.

Should have sent them their own letter

[Dave20046]

Just to point out I'm against people who risk others' property and lives illegally and love a patronizing preach myself, the title was somewhat tongue in cheek I was considering if it was possible to do away with only my theft cover for the sake of £700 . I'm going to point out it'd be lovely if the quote was 700 but that was the hike for change of address only with my current insurer which up until an hour ago was the best price I'd had.
However 28th quote lucky I've found one £550 cheaper ... probably will have spent that on phone calls! LUcky though as this company was £800 odd more online