View Full Version : iphone advice
timwilky
24-10-11, 03:20 PM
For some reason the son has just upgraded his contract and got one.
Now he is ranting on about needing a computer to connect it to.
Why?
He is now taking it back to the shop as it is not fit for purpose. Why can he not charge it up and use it?
Or is this some sort of blaging act?
Apple are very precious about their stuff. You've got to sync it to itunes to register it before you can use it.
timwilky
24-10-11, 03:22 PM
so can the shop that sold him the contract not register it?
DarrenSV650S
24-10-11, 03:24 PM
If it has the new ios5 software it shouldn't need to be connected to a computer
Independence for all iOS devices.
With iOS 5, you no longer need a computer to own an iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch. Activate and set up your device wirelessly, right out of the box. Download free iOS software updates directly on your device. Do more with your apps — like editing your photos or adding new email folders — on your device, without the need for a Mac or PC. And back up and restore your device automatically using iCloud.
Hmmmm not sure? It's more normal to have it sync'd to your computer through itunes so that it can update software, download podcasts etc that way. Theres a limited number of computers you can sync it too as well.
You can just do it the once then uninstall itunes again but you'll find the phone works better when it's sync'd now and again.
timwilky
24-10-11, 03:27 PM
By "wirelessly", do you mean by 3G? He has got the phone to give himself internet access. He has no internet/wifi and therefore no computer etc.
By "wirelessly", do you mean by 3G? He has got the phone to give himself internet access. He has no internet/wifi and therefore no computer etc.
He could always nip to McDonalds & borrow theirs for a bit
Just noticed the mention of iCloud - i'm sure thats a subscription service...
timwilky
24-10-11, 03:30 PM
He could always nip to McDonalds & borrow theirs for a bit
That is how his neighbour checks his mail.
DarrenSV650S
24-10-11, 03:35 PM
By "wirelessly", do you mean by 3G? He has got the phone to give himself internet access. He has no internet/wifi and therefore no computer etc.
I'm not sure if it means 3G or Wifi
I'm not sure if it means 3G or Wifi
I would have thought you could use both - it's just how long you're willing to wait & what data charges will be using 3g.
Steve_God
24-10-11, 03:56 PM
Downside to iPhones I'm afraid, they require a computer with iTunes installed to register them...
If no computer, take it back and get an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S II is the nearest thing to an iPhone at the moment)
timwilky
24-10-11, 04:18 PM
Surely the shop should have told him this before they sold him the contract upgrade?
The reason for getting a "smartphone" was because he has no computer or ability to access the internet. You would have thought it should be part of the checks made when you buy a house, can I get an internet service?
Sounds like an iphone is not a smart phone, more like a brick in an unconnected world.
Bluefish
24-10-11, 05:22 PM
Downside to iPhones I'm afraid, they require a computer with iTunes installed to register them...
If no computer, take it back and get an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S II is the nearest thing to an iPhone at the moment)
You still sync it to the computer, so no differance there, if he hasn't got a computer or wifi, then why did he buy the phone?
No no no.
With new ios5 no computer is necessary. Although I wouldnt ever buy any kind of smartphone without a computer.
You can register ios5 straight out of the box, no connection to a computer necessary. However you do need to have the phone on charge (plugged in to wall or computer) and connected to wifi (not 3g) to accept any kind of OTA (over the air - wirelessly) updates.
I'd suggest that your son gets wifi and perhaps a cheap notebook before buying a smartphone, even an android phone.
iCloud is not subscription as you get 5gb free. Anything over that you can purchase.
Tim, to be honest... The shop does not have to inform anyone that they need a computer. Most households have one anyway + if you went to apple and they said you need to buy a computer you'd think it was a sales pitch! lol
As Stuuk1 said, no need for a computer BUT WiFi is a must.
hindle8907
24-10-11, 07:18 PM
Lots of manufactures require pc or wifi for first use.
prior to iOS5 this was how the iPhone was first configured. Now it isn't necessary.
But still, what is the big deal with installing iTunes?
prior to iOS5 this was how the iPhone was first configured. Now it isn't necessary.
But still, what is the big deal with installing iTunes?
Personally I think iTunes is great...
An after thought, if you son has purchased an iphone with iOS 4.XX then he will need a laptop to activate it.
If this is the case take it to an apple store and they should be able to activate it for you and do the update to iOS5 allowing full use of the device.
fizzwheel
24-10-11, 08:52 PM
But still, what is the big deal with installing iTunes?
Some people just dont like apple or apple products, they will have their reasons and thats fair enough IMHO.
The other problem with it is that the first few version of itunes were sh*te. It was bloaty and resource heavy, also it would sometimes just not synch with your device so you'd end up faffing about with itunes in order to get it to work. Also sometimes apple would release a new version of it that was buggy and you'd be back to synch problems etc.
However I've been using it for ages and it works just fine, they've smoothed it out and polished it and I think its excellent.
I've said it before I'll say it again, apple / itunes are one of the few products I know I can give to somebody with little or no I.T. knowledge or skills that they can take out the box, set it up, get it to do what they want it to do and not have to ask me how to get it to work. I put alot of value on that. Not everybody wants or needs to f*ck about fiddling with stuff, some people just want to get their product and go...
But we digress...
DJFridge
24-10-11, 09:52 PM
And this is why I have an Android phone! iTunes is for music - I have an iPod Nano I'm very happy with - but it shouldn't have any relevance to setting up a phone.
DarrenSV650S
24-10-11, 10:16 PM
itunes makes me want to rip my hair out. I hate it so much
iTunes is for music - I have an iPod Nano I'm very happy with - but it shouldn't have any relevance to setting up a phone.
It used to be 10 years ago but nowadays it is so much more. It handles all media on iOS devices (music, video, books), Apps, firmware upgrades and the all important device backup which people tend to treat superficially. I love it because it does everything so easily with minimum number of clicks all within one nicely maintained application.
Specialone
25-10-11, 06:05 AM
It's perfectly possible to plug in the iPhone once and never touch iTunes again.
The later iPhones being handed out will have the later IOS but earlier ones won't and will need an update on first sync anyway.
What's the point of a smart phone with no Internet access?
timwilky
25-10-11, 06:39 AM
Why does he need iTunes installed on a computer?
He hasn't got a computer because he cannot get an internet service. That is the reason for buying a so called smart phone to give him somewhat limited capabilitiy. It is no good saying he needs a WiFi service what does he connect the access point to?
Fair enough he can come round to my house and use the WiFi there, but having to buy a laptop etc to drag round to my home to use his phone seems to be damm stupid.
Yes there are 5 computers in my house, none are capable of having iTunes and I certainly don't want it. I have 2 linux boxes, a Sun Solaris box a microvax and an AlphaServer. Can and do I want to install itunes on any of them. No.
My work laptop is tied down so tight and audited every time I turn it on that there is no way even if I had the admin password that I would dare to install any non approved software.
Why does he need iTunes installed on a computer?
He hasn't got a computer because he cannot get an internet service. That is the reason for buying a so called smart phone to give him somewhat limited capabilitiy. It is no good saying he needs a WiFi service what does he connect the access point to?
Fair enough he can come round to my house and use the WiFi there, but having to buy a laptop etc to drag round to my home to use his phone seems to be damm stupid.
He could have been much better off with a netbook a 3G dongle and a free phone if that was the only intended use. Spending so much money for a smart phone only to use it in such a limited manner, seems the stupid thing to do IMO.
Unless you want to trash the iPhone for some other reasons and you are running out of arguments.
But as it's been said several times already only for you to ignore on this thread, there is no need for iTunes at all with the iPhone you got.
Why does he need iTunes installed on a computer?
He hasn't got a computer because he cannot get an internet service. That is the reason for buying a so called smart phone to give him somewhat limited capabilitiy. It is no good saying he needs a WiFi service what does he connect the access point to?
Fair enough he can come round to my house and use the WiFi there, but having to buy a laptop etc to drag round to my home to use his phone seems to be damm stupid.
Yes there are 5 computers in my house, none are capable of having iTunes and I certainly don't want it. I have 2 linux boxes, a Sun Solaris box a microvax and an AlphaServer. Can and do I want to install itunes on any of them. No.
My work laptop is tied down so tight and audited every time I turn it on that there is no way even if I had the admin password that I would dare to install any non approved software.
Because up until very recently the iPhone made use of a 'typical' customers broadband connection and personal computer to register the device. It established the identity of the phone, registered certificates to use for DRM and a host of other things. Only recently in iOS5 has the capability been added to enable this to be done wirelessly. Wether you like that approach or not is irrelevant, thats how it is.
Typical customers are not techies, they dont run linux machines and most of them do indeed have some other method to access the internet, they run a Windows or Mac client and thats it. By not having either of these puts you outside of the definition of a 'typical' customer. It is very unusual (at the moment at least) for a smartphone to be a customers only, or even primary, access to the internet. That is changing and is now reflected in the iPhone setup mechanism.
I'm not defending Apple or any other vendor, but techies do not define the norm and do not necessarily have to agree to how consumer electronics are launched. Nobody (that I am aware of at least) just decides one day to use iTunes in the same way that they dont choose to install other similar apps. iTunes has/had a purpose and is installed for that purpose, if you have a music library to manage, Apple 'i' devices to initialise, sync with, backup etc then you use it. If you dont own those devices then obviously no point, but its just an app at the end of the day.
hindle8907
25-10-11, 07:49 AM
This thread is silly......
I'm in the middle of setting up a new blackberry device for a user ..... oh look I have to connect it to a PC running blackberry manager or connect to a wifi router with internet access before I configure it . . . . . . . .
Then the blackberry manager can be used for sync , organizing music and media and restoring the device if needed sound familiar ?
....but it shouldn't have any relevance to setting up a phone.
Well, you say that. But when you think about how the iPhone evolved into what it is then you realise that in fact it is a device that started life as a music player, that grew to a handheld computer and just so happens to have the necessary hardware and an app that lets it make and take phone calls.
Typical iPhone customers were already using iTunes at that point in time to sync iPods, or they had a Mac that had this capability natively built in.
This thread is silly......
I'm in the middle of setting up a new blackberry device for a user ..... oh look I have to connect it to a PC running blackberry manager before I configure it . . . . . . . .
Then the blackberry manager can be used for sync , organizing music and media and restoring the device if needed sound familiar ?
exactly, even with BlackBerry though we are seeing the introduction of 'over the wire' configuration. Its a relatively new capability on all devices that will surely be the norm in a few months.
timwilky
25-10-11, 07:57 AM
Whilst I agree a netbook and 3g would be preferable for internet access, it somehow did not appeal to him. It is not me that has bought the thing, I had no influence. He simply turned up at my house in a rage because he could not use his new phone.
He was expecting an urgent call, his number had been transferred to the new phone and it simply did not work. Why I do not know. He wanted me to attach it to one of my systems and I had said no.
when I got my HTC Desire I simply charged it and inserted the sim. It worked. The same with my work Nokia. I just find it strange that you need to attach it to a computer before you can use a phone.
Now in saying all this. I am getting the info second hand from a technical numpty. He has been told by his mate that he needs to attach it to a computer. He has not told me why, it is on here that people have said he need to do this to "register" it. It is this whole register part I don't understand. Ownership of a phone should be anonymous.
timwilky
25-10-11, 08:03 AM
Why does he need to sync it? with what. He hasn't got a digital diary, organiser etc. His music is on a few CDs, that is why he wanted the iPhone in order to download music to it, access facebook/twitter. I get the feeling the use of a "smartphone" must have been wrongly pitched to him.
Ownership of a phone should be anonymous.
Ah, now this is where we get to the the discussion about Apple and how it does business.... With an iPhone you are not anonymous, their business model does not operate in a way that enables this to be the case.
Even with iOS5 and its over the wire config, nothing has changed other than the removal of the need for a PC/Mac in the middle.
Ownership of a phone should be anonymous.
And so should be eating food from Tesco but since paying by cash becomes less and less common, so does the anonymity that comes with it. Doesn't he need a registered account with facebook or twitter or to access his email? On the bright side, you may have a chance to locate or trace your phone if it gets lost or stolen.
Why does he need to sync it? with what. He hasn't got a digital diary, organiser etc. His music is on a few CDs, that is why he wanted the iPhone in order to download music to it, access facebook/twitter.
What if drops and breaks the phone, would it be fair for him to pay for the music and apps again? How would he insert the CD's into the iPhone?
fizzwheel
25-10-11, 08:44 AM
He has not told me why, it is on here that people have said he need to do this to "register" it. It is this whole register part I don't understand. Ownership of a phone should be anonymous.
He needs to register it with apple, in order to turn the services on on it, make it read the sim etc etc. The only way to do that with a Iphone 3G, 3GS or Iphone 4 is to plug it into Itunes, Itunes then talks to Apple to register the phone with apple and allow it to recognise the sim and hence make it work with the phone provider. It also then when plugged into itunes enables the settings on the phone so that the phone talks to his service provider etc so that it pulls down the right settings for email and using the 3G service via the browser on his phone, so that internet access works on it.
It would appear a phone running IO4 such as the new 4GS doesnt need to do that.
He can download music and apps to it without itunes as the phone will talk direct to the apple store, but he'll still need to create an account with the apple store and I dont know if you can do that without itunes, he'll also need a credit or switch card to be able to pay for his music downloads and that will also need to be registered with his itunes account.
timwilky
25-10-11, 08:52 AM
So regarding music, can he not simply browse huge collections of anonymous mp3 files available on the web and pull down the ones he wants. naughty I know, but paying for music seems so last century. newsgroups/torrents etc.
BTW, he has got it activated at his girlfriends parents house.
hindle8907
25-10-11, 09:05 AM
I dont get users who buy hardware who dont have a clue what the device is or what its capabilities/restrictions are its why most apple users are flamed as being a bunch of ****wits who only buy for the logo and I can see why even more so now.
Out of the box no you cannot download mp3's from the web as apple have a multimillion pound store with deals with all the record labels, film studios and developers where you can buy all the latest music/films and apps ect ect.
Why an earth would they make it possible to download an mp3 via the web it would just be suicide.
Yes you can download mp3's ect ect via usenet/torrents but you first have to gain root access via jailbreak.
timwilky
25-10-11, 09:08 AM
Makes it sound so difficult compared to my Android phone. I just dump the files/folders to /music on my SD card and my desire finds it.
Steve_God
25-10-11, 09:09 AM
So regarding music, can he not simply browse huge collections of anonymous mp3 files available on the web and pull down the ones he wants. naughty I know, but paying for music seems so last century. newsgroups/torrents etc.
They're generally very restrictive on apps promoting illegal activity.
iPhones are great for basic usability, but it's always on their terms...
If you want to do 'exactly' what you want with the phone, an Android phone will allow you to do just that, albeit, without the same level of style that an iPhone gives.
hindle8907
25-10-11, 09:27 AM
iPhones are great for basic usability, but it's always on their terms...
If you want to do 'exactly' what you want with the phone, an Android phone will allow you to do just that, albeit, without the same level of style that an iPhone gives.
Not True, You cant do Exactly what you want with both devices you just gota have the know how.
But for 85% of users they don't need the added benefit of android with the loss of content from the apple store,user-friendly-ness of ios and its sleek design.
The other 15% have a choice either go android or learn how to maximize the i-device full true potential.
There are still tasks on android that require rooting/jail breaking.
I cant be bothered going into it to much just do a forum search for iphone and see me and soulkiss debate in full for hours on to many various iphone/android related threads up until about 4 month ago when I stopped my input as it got boring and repetitive and full of comments from users who only have one view (mainly the choice they went for) and not much technical expertise with mobile hardware/operating systems.
are we getting into another Apple vs <insert vendor here> discussion or explaining the technical facts and characteristics of this particular device?
This is how it works, simples.
timwilky
25-10-11, 09:30 AM
True, Android is not great either. I desperately need a real IPSEC client on mine. Google don't seem to realise they will not crack business use without that basic out of the box requirement for both their phones and tablets etc.
hindle8907
25-10-11, 09:33 AM
I need a ssl vpn client too :(
Makes it sound so difficult compared to my Android phone. I just dump the files/folders to /music on my SD card and my desire finds it.
So you do need a PC to put music on the SD card then. With iPhone you don't need the SD card, download the music, drop it into iTunes and connect the phone to the computer. Different mechanism but just as simple with the added benefit of an organised and backed up phone and media files.
If you want to do 'exactly' what you want with the phone, an Android phone will allow you to do just that, albeit, without the same level of style that an iPhone gives.
Let's be clear on something.Neither an Android nor an Jailbroken iPhone will do EXACTLY what you want. You can say they have an extra set of features but no Andriod or iPhone will do exactly what one would want.
I love messing with stuff, hacking gaming consoles and fiddling with strange scripts in obscure languages but I prefer the iPhone just the way it comes in the box. Of course I would be able to jailbreak it and do 1001 more things on it but just because you can, it doesn't mean you should. Just because and Android does things differently, it doesn't mean is the only way of doing things or that it would fit anyone.
The whole "my phone is better than yours" BS is pretty old.
timwilky
25-10-11, 09:55 AM
No I don't need a PC, I can simply browse the net or use an app. All I am saying is that music put in a certain place is automatically discovered. I do not need to use an application to install music on my phone.
So the problem here is that the iPhone which was pitched at your son by a ruthless salesman who did not inform him that he would NOT be able to download illegal content from the internet over the 3G network without the help of a computer and a piece of software. Awesome ...
timwilky
25-10-11, 10:32 AM
No, The issue is that it was not stated by the salesman that he would be unable to use the phone without first attaching it to a internet connected windows PC or a mac. Nor was it stated that in order to install music he could not simply browse or ftp/scp etc. a location and download his music selection onto the phone. That music could be legal "backups" of his existing collection etc. held on a secure server out in the ether.
Bluefish
25-10-11, 10:36 AM
A sales person lied, i don't believe it lol.
No, The issue is that it was not stated by the salesman that he would be unable to use the phone without first attaching it to a internet connected windows PC or a mac. Nor was it stated that in order to install music he could not simply browse or ftp/scp etc. a location and download his music selection onto the phone. That music could be legal "backups" of his existing collection etc. held on a secure server out in the ether.
Neither of which are definitive features of a Smartphone in 2011.
Non-issue. You don't have to connect to a PC. Salesman did not lie ;)
There we go then, lesson learnt. Read the minimum requirements written on the back of the box & don't expect a salesman to tell you that you can't break the law.
What a nightmare thread this has turned in to...
Tim, it's 2011. I don't know how old you son is or his financial situation but he needs some sort of computer and an Internet connection, end of.
Internet is even cheap these days, if he has sky tv then their 2mb broadband is free!
Phones eventually will all become smart-phones as battery technology gets better and better, it's inevitable.
What your son really needs to do now is use his 3G connection on his now working iPhone so research how to do stuff. The world of iPhones Is endless!
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.217253,0.245294
Member of the 1 litre club...
SoulKiss
25-10-11, 04:20 PM
Tim, it's 2011. I don't know how old you son is or his financial situation but he needs some sort of computer and an Internet connection, end of.
Why?
Really, please explain further.
The internet is a luxury, not a necessity.
Bluefish
25-10-11, 05:57 PM
unless you want to save on your bills by having online accounts
timwilky
25-10-11, 06:57 PM
What a nightmare thread this has turned in to...
Tim, it's 2011. I don't know how old you son is or his financial situation but he needs some sort of computer and an Internet connection, end of.
Internet is even cheap these days, if he has sky tv then their 2mb broadband is free!
Phones eventually will all become smart-phones as battery technology gets better and better, it's inevitable.
What your son really needs to do now is use his 3G connection on his now working iPhone so research how to do stuff. The world of iPhones Is endless!
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.217253,0.245294
Member of the 1 litre club...
Yes, you would think in 2011 people could get internet connections. Tell BT/OFCOM etc. That in order to engage with government, with society they need to have an internet connection. Unfortunately though until they run fibre to the home or cabinet to every postcode in the country those who live more than a couple of miles from a telephone exchange cannot get an internet connection. I am at least fortunate in that Telewest some years ago ran a cable past my home as I cannot get ADSL. That costs a "very cheap" £45/month He unfortunately although he only lives a mile away from me, does not have that luxury. A very weak 3g signal is the best he can get.
We have even thought about trying some sort of point to point connection between our homes so he can piggy back off me. But unfortunately we dont have line of sight.
Yes, you would think in 2011 people could get internet connections. Tell BT/OFCOM etc. That in order to engage with government, with society they need to have an internet connection. Unfortunately though until they run fibre to the home or cabinet to every postcode in the country those who live more than a couple of miles from a telephone exchange cannot get an internet connection. I am at least fortunate in that Telewest some years ago ran a cable past my home as I cannot get ADSL. That costs a "very cheap" £45/month He unfortunately although he only lives a mile away from me, does not have that luxury. A very weak 3g signal is the best he can get.
We have even thought about trying some sort of point to point connection between our homes so he can piggy back off me. But unfortunately we dont have line of sight.
Oh, thats pants. Sorry didnt realise you were out in the sticks... My aunt was kind of in the same situation and somehow managed to get BT to run a brand new line down her road and in to her house.. Think it was a long process though.
Soulkiss,
The reason he needs a computer and internet connection (Tim's son) is because (and I think most will agree) its the way forward. If he is buying electronic stuff like a smartphone then these luxuries are pretty much a necessity.
maviczap
25-10-11, 08:25 PM
This thread is silly......
I'm in the middle of setting up a new blackberry device for a user ..... oh look I have to connect it to a PC running blackberry manager or connect to a wifi router with internet access before I configure it . . . . . . . .
Then the blackberry manager can be used for sync , organizing music and media and restoring the device if needed sound familiar ?
exactly, even with BlackBerry though we are seeing the introduction of 'over the wire' configuration. Its a relatively new capability on all devices that will surely be the norm in a few months.
Which is why like DjFridge I have an Android phone:smt020
No Itunes, no need to:compcrash:
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