eBay pond life - help please

[myfirstsv]

Suppose you found the nose cone from a WW2 Halifax bomber.

You don't know if it is from a crash site where the crew were either killed or injured but you stick it on eBay for £1750.

If it was me I would either see if the RAF wanted it or an Air Force museum like Hendon or York. I most definitely not try and profit from something that might have come from what could be a war grave.

Sadly the seller doesn't see it that way. So if you think it is as disgusting as me, do an eBay search on "Halifax nose cone", send him a nasty email and report it as the sale of a prohibited item. Like I have.

And the reason for the rant, my uncle (aged 18 - think about it) is somewhere in the North Sea in the remains of his Halifax that came down in 1944 on a mission.*

I don't imagine he and the other 6 members of his crew would have thought their lives and the sacrifice made by the other 56,000 aircrew who were killed in WW2 should be desecrated by the sale of parts from an aircraft they fought and died in.

[Wobbly]

It's pretty unlikely that came from a crash site as the nose would have been smashed to bits, however I do agree with your sentiments. There were some parts from a crash site that appeared on eBay a little while ago and the ad was taken down very quickly when people started complaining.

[Stuuk1]

I like having a general moan so I wrote this:

This is disgusting, this is most likely somebody's grave and you are attempting to make money from it.

I can only hope that somebody steals your grave stone breaks it down and uses the rubble as hardcore for their drive

Do the right thing and donate this to an appropriate museum.

I shall be reporting this to eBay.

However, I can't actually report it as the iPhone app doesn't appear to have this facility... Doh!


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.217237,0.245225
Member of the 1 litre club...

[husky03]

Sorry mate but unless he actually robbed a grave i don't see the issue-i visit many ww2 memorabilia sites and see everything from concentration camp clothing to full SS officer battle dress,clothing from the d-day beach landings even hitlers personal silver tea set-its important that people are allowed to buy these items as it ensures people never forget.Leaving insulting messages is only gonna get yourself banned from ebay.

[myfirstsv]

Thanks mate I appreciate that.

And to the other guy who responded above, you are right, chances are it isn't a crash site but no one knows for sure. And that is the point.

If you don't know, treat it with respect and don't try and make money out of it. And thanks for your comments I hope EBay will withdraw it.

[Mr Speirs]

Yeah agree with husky. If you wanted to start accusing people of possibly trying to profit from tragedy then you could start writing to people who break cars or motorbikes because there is a slight possibility that someone crashed and died on those bikes.

The only reason you find this morally wrong is you have a personal bias.

In truth there's nothing wrong with what the guys doing and so won't be entertaining your request to berate the seller.

[fizzwheel]

The seller says he found it in some brambles in North Wales 35 years ago, he's also been asked a question where it came from and answered it with :

"Hello I found the nose cone about 35 years ago in woods on my parent’s land in North Wales, but I’ve never tried to find a record of a crash site in the area. I recently contacted the RAF Museum London Department of Research & Information Services who confirmed that the nose cone was off a Halifax bomber (Most likely a Mk III) The frame does have some numbers on it, but I don’t know if these can link it to an individual aircraft. Regards"

Now I'm sure that if it had come from a crash site, surely the RAF Museum would have told him that. Of course they might have and the seller is choosing not to disclose it...

[myfirstsv]

Sorry mate but unless he actually robbed a grave i don't see the issue-i visit many ww2 memorabilia sites and see everything from concentration camp clothing to full SS officer battle dress,clothing from the d-day beach landings even hitlers personal silver tea set-its important that people are allowed to buy these items as it ensures people never forget.Leaving insulting messages is only gonna get yourself banned from ebay.
Think we will have to agree to differ on that. I think it unlikely there will be anyone trying to sell WW2 memorabilia at the Cenotaph on Rememberance Sunday.

I wasn't suggesting sending EBay messages that would get you banned. There are plenty of ways of telling someone you think they are a total s*** without being offensive.

And thanks for taking the time to respond. Even if we disagree I do appreciate it

[husky03]

I understand where your coming from mate-your have a personal attachment to that particular model of aircraft due to your families loss and your uncles sacrifice.
I don't see the justification in your comment about Remembrance Sunday.

[myfirstsv]

Yeah agree with husky. If you wanted to start accusing people of possibly trying to profit from tragedy then you could start writing to people who break cars or motorbikes because there is a slight possibility that someone crashed and died on those bikes.

The only reason you find this morally wrong is you have a personal bias.

In truth there's nothing wrong with what the guys doing and so won't be entertaining your request to berate the seller.
You make a very valid point. And I have bought parts off peBay for my bike and it never occurred to me to think did someone die and that is why the bike is being sold in bits.

I guess the distinction, it is woolley and I do have a personal bias, is that the bikes weren't being used in the defence of our country. I don't think someone should profit from that.

But thanks for taking the trouble to respond and ai respect your views.

[yorkie_chris]

Think we will have to agree to differ on that. I think it unlikely there will be anyone trying to sell WW2 memorabilia at the Cenotaph on Rememberance Sunday.

Neither is this guy.


Personally I'd suggest you garner some evidence either way. Maybe buy a book on the Halifax and see if the number he has matches the format of airframe numbers or something, and if that tallies up with a downed plane then go kick him in the b*llocks.
Until then I think your response may be somewhat premature.

[Red Herring]

Begs the question.....what exactly were you looking for on Ebay when you found that?

[Bluefish]

Question, is it ok for the MOD to sell of old weaponry that was definatly used in the defense of our country? and in which people may or may not have died.

[Wobbly]

I think there is a big difference in selling old weapons and stealing artifacts from a war grave (not that I think this was from a war grave in this instance).

[beabert]

I dont see any issue either, as long as its not stolen of course. Too me its just a piece of metal for sale.

[myfirstsv]

OK This in response to a couple of comments above.

I have done my research and I was loking on Ebay for any books about my Uncle's squadron (158) or RAF biographies about WW2.*

RAF Hendon or 57rescue.org (a site dedicated to the Halifax bomber) can tell you the fate of any aircraft during WW2. Believe me I've done my homework on this.

If you can get the seller to disclose the serial numbers then it's a 5 minute job to determine what happened to the aircraft.*

And here's a wild guess based on a couple of hours research tonight.

A) it is a wreck that a farmer bought for a chicken coup - that comes from the guy who was selling it. Since the farmer was his dad it might be reasonable to assume he'd mentioned it to his son. Or prehaps even that the son might have noticed a WW2 bomber housing chickens...

B) The wreck is from an OTU flight (operational training unit).*

Pure speculation now without a serial number:

The Halifax BIII didn't come into service until late 43' early 44.*

The only reason for flying over Wales was for training because it was out of the Operational zone. There were some Coastal Command squadrons on Wales but they didn't fly Halifax bombers.

Sadly there were a shed load of bombers that crashed in Wales, in fog or at night on training flights during late 43' to 45'.

The aircraft serial number is the key and to be honest the seller saying the RAF couldn't identify the aircraft is complete b••••••!

Which leads me to the inescapable conclusion that it is a crash site, and probably a war grave as well.

And if you think I'm making this up go and trawl through the Bomber Command losses 1943-45 by W H Chorley. I did tonight.

Sorry, rant over.

[BanannaMan]

What's the law in the UK on this?

Not sure the laws there but in the US any piece of a crashed US plane still belongs to the government.
I know where a plane is (or what's left of it) that crashed on top of a mountain during a WWII training mission.
It is illegal to take any pieces, sell any pieces or even move any pieces from the crash site.

That being said I might have one small bit as a souvenier but would not consider trying to sell it on e-bay.
Get you in big trouble on this side of the pond.

BTW yes I think it's in poor taste to sell it reguardless of any law.
Should be donated to a museum.

[myfirstsv]

Thanks Bill

[Specialone]

I'm interested in war memorabilia myself, as long as it's not from a grave then I personally don't see an issue with it, but if it did come from a downed plane then as bill said, I think it still belongs to the Mod.

There is a moral issue on a lot of war stuff, enemy corpses from both sides were rifled for mementos in the two world wars ( and other wars probably), things like bayonets, pistols, medals, buttons, uniforms, flags and even gold teeth ( yes this went on :(), all this stuff has changed hands a lot over the last 70 years at dealer shows and websites etc.

The reality is, this guy probably didn't find it in a tree and its past is being 'beefed' up to make it more saleable and desirable.


It's a trade and the majority aren't being disrespectful or see anything morally wrong with it.

[Berlin]

I think you should get a life and stop being overly precious.

But then again, I think that about a lot of people! :-))

C

[Red Herring]

I think you just need to be practical about this. It's a nose cone. It sits right at the front of the aircraft and it's made of several delicate pieces of aluminium and perspex. Not many aircraft, especially those the size of a Halifax, are going to crash backwards, or gently enough for anything so constructed or located to survive in any recognizable form.

It's just a piece of old aircraft that at some point has been taken off and ended up where ever it was found.

[Balky001]

I didn't see the eBay auction details before but the seller does sayhe might loan out to museums. If you feel strongly about this you could let some if the military museums know there is an offer there if they are interested. He may have added that only to placate the people giving negative comments though.

[Bri w]

If the guy was cutting buttons off corpse's uniforms it would boil my p!$$. If the nose cone is from a crash site it still wouldn't bother me. Each to their own...

[Bibio]

if you feel so strongly about it why don't you buy it and donate it to a museum.

a lot of people lost friends, loved ones and relatives during the war. my granddad was a search light operator who had a narrow escape but some of his collogues never due to a bomb landing so close, he found a piece of the bomb and decided to mount it on a wooden plaque. my brother still has it but i can guarantee my granddad would not have batted an eyelid if it were sold.

i would not class the crash site as a grave as a grave is where people are laid to rest so why dont you try getting off your morel high horse.

[yorkie_chris]

If you can get the seller to disclose the serial numbers then it's a 5 minute job to determine what happened to the aircraft.*

See if you hadn't called him a c*** straight away then you could have asked him yourself...

[myfirstsv]

See if you hadn't called him a c*** straight away then you could have asked him yourself...
That's a fair point and well made.

So to you and the other guys who have taken the time to respond, thanks.

In this instance the Red Mist took over. With hindsight I could of dealt with it in a more appropriate way. So sorry and let's close the thread there.