Going GREEK for a week.

[grh1904]

Did anyone see this programme on Channel 4 last night.

Quite interesting and an insight into how the Greek economy has been going belly-up.

3 Brits were given financial advice by a Greek financial advisor, based upon how he would had they all been Greek living in Greece.

54 year old female hairdresser working part-time for (I think it was) £220.00 p/week. He advised that she should retire immediately becasue average retirement of retirement for a hairdresser in Greece is 53. Because it is a "hazardous" job she got an immediate pension of £217.00 p/week compared to the just over £100.00 p/week she would be entitled to over here.

Other example was a bus driver, married with a step-child. The financial advisor worked out that he could claim an extra £400.00+ per week. He was entitled to claim a bonus just for turning up at work!!!!, no seriously if he was due to drive at bus at a specific time & turned up a minute or so early to book it out, check his float etc (which he had to do) he could claim bonuses just for doing his job.

I won't say anymore incase you watch it on catch up/on demand or whatever it is.

[andrewsmith]

If that IS the case in Greece, no wonder they're up the proverbial without a paddle.

[Owenski]

In fairness... we're not so far behind that ourselves.

[andrewsmith]

What retire at 53 on £230p/w, a bonus for getting your erse into work on time and earn £35k as a bus driver. I'd be lucky if I'm on £35k at 50 as a senior Surveyor.

If your on about public sector pensions then your right *Grabs Tin Hat and Shovel*

If I'm lucky I maybe able (along with a good few of the org) at 75 with £200p/w

[600+]

Did anyone see this programme on Channel 4 last night.

Quite interesting and an insight into how the Greek economy has been going belly-up.

3 Brits were given financial advice by a Greek financial advisor, based upon how he would had they all been Greek living in Greece.

54 year old female hairdresser working part-time for (I think it was) £220.00 p/week. He advised that she should retire immediately becasue average retirement of retirement for a hairdresser in Greece is 53. Because it is a "hazardous" job she got an immediate pension of £217.00 p/week compared to the just over £100.00 p/week she would be entitled to over here.

Other example was a bus driver, married with a step-child. The financial advisor worked out that he could claim an extra £400.00+ per week. He was entitled to claim a bonus just for turning up at work!!!!, no seriously if he was due to drive at bus at a specific time & turned up a minute or so early to book it out, check his float etc (which he had to do) he could claim bonuses just for doing his job.

I won't say anymore incase you watch it on catch up/on demand or whatever it is.

Fundamental error with this program was the comparison to the Greek financial system but with UK wages.

Now for the detail on what they showed;

54 year old hairdresser. Yes they can retire at 50 BUT they don't as they would only get 90% of €700 a month. In other words they would starve to death. If they do decide to retire and work from home without receipts and cash in hand then......well lets think of the 5 hairdressers we've had in my household here in the UK that all came, got paid, left and I never saw a receipt. Not that different to what happens here then.

Bus driver in Greece is a public servant and is paid €13k pa.....unlike the guy in Luton who is paid £25k pa. So again an unfair comparison. With regards to the bonus payments yes unfortunately this is true and this has been the public sector in Greece for decades.

Finally the orthopedics surgeon that was shown asked to be paid half in cash and for the remaining half he would give out a receipt. This has reduced greatly and the "fakelaki" (little money envelope) has disappeared as people are no longer happy to give those back handers, especially to doctors.

So in conclusion programs like that are the best to create a false perspective and create hate and racism for other countries, nations and people.

What Greece has been in need for years is a Marg Thatcher!!! Someone who will completely remove the Unions from the equation and shrink the public sector to the absolute minimum!!

[Amadeus]

I've just got back from Crete - had a lovely time.

We eat out every night (obviously) and a main course was 8 euros ~£5. So when you compare that to the wages you cited, it doesn't sound as if someone would starve to death.
I heard something on the radio (I think - might have been radio 4, but might have been BBC news website) and they were saying that it's usual/expected for public sector workers to not come into work at least one day a week - it's got so endemic, there is no attempt to sweeten it up.

I don't know how accurate this information is, but if it is true, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy, even tho it may be so endeminc people don't realise that they're doing something wrong (I work in a company where lots of people have been here for so long they have no idea how lucky they are).
The bottom line is that the country is living in a way that is unsustainable and something needs to happen - it can't go on. But then, the same applies here - people still have massive mortgages that they can't afford - it will only be sorted once the interest rates go up.

[Biker Biggles]

Fundamental error with this program was the comparison to the Greek financial system but with UK wages.

Now for the detail on what they showed;

54 year old hairdresser. Yes they can retire at 50 BUT they don't as they would only get 90% of €700 a month. In other words they would starve to death. If they do decide to retire and work from home without receipts and cash in hand then......well lets think of the 5 hairdressers we've had in my household here in the UK that all came, got paid, left and I never saw a receipt. Not that different to what happens here then.

Bus driver in Greece is a public servant and is paid €13k pa.....unlike the guy in Luton who is paid £25k pa. So again an unfair comparison. With regards to the bonus payments yes unfortunately this is true and this has been the public sector in Greece for decades.

Finally the orthopedics surgeon that was shown asked to be paid half in cash and for the remaining half he would give out a receipt. This has reduced greatly and the "fakelaki" (little money envelope) has disappeared as people are no longer happy to give those back handers, especially to doctors.

So in conclusion programs like that are the best to create a false perspective and create hate and racism for other countries, nations and people.

What Greece has been in need for years is a Marg Thatcher!!! Someone who will completely remove the Unions from the equation and shrink the public sector to the absolute minimum!!

Im glad someone who knows Greece like you has posted some reality and balance.We are plagued with carp journalism just out for the sensational story and the truth can just go and do one eh?I dont know Greece very well,not been there for a few years,but when I read the figures in the OP I just thought thats got to be bollux.Just like here,there will be a few people who manage to screw something outrageous from the system,but the huge majority will be struggling like the rest of us.Its just that the few p1ss takers make the best storylines for the agitators(I mean journalists)

[daveyrach]

So in conclusion programs like that are the best to create a false perspective and create hate and racism for other countries, nations and people.

I don't agree with this one iota, programs are not made to create hatred at all, that is rubbish, we get angry, but you can hardly hate the greeks for what their govt has put in place.

[600+]

I've just got back from Crete - had a lovely time.

We eat out every night (obviously) and a main course was 8 euros ~£5. So when you compare that to the wages you cited, it doesn't sound as if someone would starve to death.
I heard something on the radio (I think - might have been radio 4, but might have been BBC news website) and they were saying that it's usual/expected for public sector workers to not come into work at least one day a week - it's got so endemic, there is no attempt to sweeten it up.

I don't know how accurate this information is, but if it is true, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy, even tho it may be so endeminc people don't realise that they're doing something wrong (I work in a company where lots of people have been here for so long they have no idea how lucky they are).
The bottom line is that the country is living in a way that is unsustainable and something needs to happen - it can't go on. But then, the same applies here - people still have massive mortgages that they can't afford - it will only be sorted once the interest rates go up.

So if you ate out for €8 a night then why don't you try go shopping in a supermarket for a weeks family food and you then let me know if you can survive on even €800 per month. And also don't forget to include your bills which are higher than here and petrol which is same price as here.

My mum has been visiting me for the past 12 years that I have been in the UK and every single time she comments how food shopping is cheaper than back home.

[600+]

I don't agree with this one iota, programs are not made to create hatred at all, that is rubbish, we get angry, but you can hardly hate the greeks for what their govt has put in place.

Have you seen what the German population think about Greeks lately? We are apparently stealing their livelihood because "they" have to bail the country out!!

I take it you forgot the response of the English workers during the recession about "foreigners" that took their jobs and why didn't they "go back home".

When people are given the opportunity they are very quick to assign blame and in the Greeks case it is to the Greeks rather to a corrupt government and system!!

[Bluefish]

8 Euros is actually £6.88 ;) As too surviving on 800 euro a month, that's more than the standard pension over here i believe.

[Dave20046]

It was clearly a hate greece program and incredibly patronisingly formatted - but they claimed a Greek busdriver would be paid 55k. There are clearly issues there, corruption, tax evasion (optional tax??) and they raved on about the pension and mumbled something about there being no jobseekers benefits. Well that must be like 20 billion saved right there.

My mate walked in and summed up mr Costa brilliantly as he met the surgeon "Hi, I'm a really British enthusiastic tosser". The program was designed for simpletons so I found it hard to believe what they were saying.
I thought the wages quoted must be fact though - where did you get £13k PA from 600+? I'm positive they quoted £55 or £56k :-S

[Biker Biggles]

I know.
Why dont we all go on £688 a month by law so as to make us competitive against the Chinese and Indians?
Soon pay off the deficit and get the old country back on its feet that way.
Cant see democracy surviving long though.

[Dave20046]

I know.
Why dont we all go on £688 a month by law so as to make us competitive against the Chinese and Indians?
Soon pay off the deficit and get the old country back on its feet that way.
Cant see democracy surviving long though.

Quick question, I know a Chinese millionaire (as in Chinese man, Chinese citizen, lives in China...not Chinese Dave from the pub) - how's that happened?
Do certain industries get paid more or just politicians or something?

[Biker Biggles]

Theres lots of Chinese millionaires.Not surprising as its the most successfull economy on earth still growing at 9% despite all the troubles.They do it by paying their workers low wages in an artificially undervalued currency which isnt traded on world markets.Then they get the rest of us to pay for the stuff they make in hard currency.Bit of a win win for them.

[Dave20046]

aha, I see. Thanks

[grimey121uk]

While on the subject of China, one of the main reasons of their success is that if you do not work you will not eat so everyone in the population is motivated to work.

In the UK and US the social welfare (benefits etc) costs more than all of the income tax received, bearing in mind the UK received about £160 billion in income tax alone last year and our deficit is about £900 billion. If we followed China we would be debt free in no time...

If China ever decide to stop undervaluing their currency all off a sudden the things we take for granted will become very very expensive for us to import but we will not have much choice as we don't have the infrastructure to manufacture.

[600+]

The program was comparing how the Greek system would work here in the UK, for UK workers with UK salaries.

That's how they came up with 56k salary...

[Dave20046]

The program was comparing how the Greek system would work here in the UK, for UK workers with UK salaries.

That's how they came up with 56k salary...

So is a 13k salary equivalent of £56k over there? (in terms of what it buys/standard of life,value etc.) Sorry if I'm being dense.

[600+]

So is a 13k salary equivalent of £56k over there? (in terms of what it buys/standard of life,value etc.) Sorry if I'm being dense.

Absolutely not!! Why you think I'm here? Because of the nice weather and the summers? LOL

The cost of living in Greece is the same as it is here in the UK, if not more expensive.

As an example someone that is living in any other city but Athens (as that would be equivalent to London in terms of being the capital);

Rent - at least €500 for a 1 bedroom flat in a 20 year old block of flats
Internet/Phone - €40
Water, Electricity - €100
Council tax is included as a % in your utility bills
Block of flat charges such as cleaning, heating, maintenance - €40 roughly
Road Tax if you have a car - starts at €200 per annum

Then on top you need to add your weekly shopping which is paying prices at Waitrose level not ASDA. Also your entertainment.

Basic salary starts at €565 FYI

[Dave20046]

Then what the hell was their point lol.

Cheers for clearing that up

[Amadeus]

800 euro is more than my grandmother got here in the UK as her pension; tho she's dead now, she didn't die from hunger.

600+: What do you think is the solution to the problem - it doesn't sound as if you think a country should need to live within its means so what other options are there?
(really, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here and I can see you're angry/frustrated but I'm genuinely interested as to the possible solutions I've missed).

[Biker Biggles]

There would be riots and revolution in any western country that was forced to live within its means.With the exception of Germany which seems to have a trade surplus and a few small countries like Norway that have small populations and big oil reserves the kind of reductions in living standards that would be required would topple any democracy.We would have to revert to 1950s living standards I would guess,as thats about the last time this country was really productive and profitable and then we didnt have much competition from "emerging" economies.Back then you were doing very well if you had a car,telly,central heating,your own bedroom,and most other stuff we take for granted.Foriegn holiday?Well Margate is nearly French isnt it?I cant see people putting up with that here,in Greece,Italy Spain Ireland or anywhere else.

[stormingjoe]

Not watched the program, but where does the figure of 56k for a bus driver come from? What currency? Cause I drive public transport and get far less than half that!


Podgey on a bike :)

[600+]

800 euro is more than my grandmother got here in the UK as her pension; tho she's dead now, she didn't die from hunger.

600+: What do you think is the solution to the problem - it doesn't sound as if you think a country should need to live within its means so what other options are there?
(really, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here and I can see you're angry/frustrated but I'm genuinely interested as to the possible solutions I've missed).

The solution as I see it is;

Reduce plubic sector and streamline the remaining operations. Run them efficiently similarly to a corporate organisation. Now I am not saying that Corp is the best but at least is leaps ahead compared to public sector.

Provide people with a minimum salary that can at least secure for them the basic needs of the 21st century, i.e. bedroom, tv, internet, bills.

Then expand on tourism which is the only market Greece has currently and provide the world with information on all year round vacations (cause we do have them).

In the end we need a Guy Fawkes as well!!!

[Biker Biggles]

Back when I was at sea Greece used to have a huge shipping industry.What happened to that?Did it go the same way as Britains?Or does it still exist but just not pay any tax?Does Greece now charge serious levels of tax on fags and booze?Last time I was there they almost gave the stuff away.Tourism is a good earner,especially if you can develop year round stuff like hill walking and historical interest areas with winter sports at relevant times,but I doubt you can run a whole economy on it.Hard times ahead,and it wont be just Greece