Black forrest and biking in Switzerland

[dyzio]

Starting to think about the next years trip.
The idea is to do the Newcastle Amsterdam crossing and head south through Germany and the Black Forest is possible to be the first stop.

I've read people on here like the area, Pictures online look great, but unfortunately google maps don't cover Germany. Perhaps someone could recommend a route for 1-2 days riding?

Secondly, the aim is to get to Italy, the easiest option looks to be continue south through Switzerland, unfortunately I think I've read too many horror stories about the Swiss police and can't stop thinking some uniformed nazi will fine me a millions of euros for doing 0.1mph over the limit.

Of course we could head towards Austria, but the pictures of the Swiss Alps look tempting :love:

Anyone on here done any riding in the above areas?

Cheers
dyz

[Ed]

unfortunately google maps don't cover Germany.

Yes it does!!

Never ridden in Germany so can't help but yes the Swiss Alps are fantastic. The Col Grand St Bernard from Switzerland into Italy is awesome.

The road up to the pass. We were waiting for some waifs and strays.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3305.jpg

At the top, remember this is July, but it's 2469m:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3307.jpg

I took this pic in Sitzerland but the buildings are in Italy:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3308.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3315.jpg

The last of the waifs and strays finally came over the top:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/Sythree/IMG_3313.jpg

and then a cracking run down to Aosta.

Where in Italy are you headed?

[dyzio]

Great pics, remind me of my France trip!

Yes it does!!
Argh :/ meant street-view


Where in Italy are you headed?

A few days in the Alps, then maybe Mugello for the weekend and motogp, and back up through the Alps again :)

But it's just an idea at the moment, not sure what/if will go ahead.

[-Ralph-]

Fantastic scenery in Switzerland, avoid motorways for that leg of the trip and take the scenic routes, then you won't be that bothered about sticking to the speed limits anyway. In fact if you don't go as slow as you need to take it in, your probably wasting the trip.

[Scythe92]

Fantastic pics, I really want to go over there sometime within the next 2 years.

What are the costs involved like?

[dyzio]

Ralph,
Motorways are a no no by default, excluding getting on/off the ferry and bigger distances (400 miles).
We've ended up in Switz 2 years ago, beautiful place indeed (if only for 100 miles), just not sure what to make of everything I've read.


Scythe,
Ferry tickets are about 300-400 pounds (departing from Newcastle or Hull), you could do Dover, but that's a bit far for me up here.

Apart from that:
- petrol, according to my mpg's it was around 14p a mile (bikes were a Falco and a 600rr).
- tyres and servicing, might need changing before/after the trip.
- food/alcohol, slightly cheaper than here,
- EU brakedown insurance (50 quid or so).
- camping, 20-50 euros (for 2 guys/bikes/tents), you can look for rooms, or cheap motels (f1, etap) but these are often in industrial estates with noting to do.
- extras nearby campsites: paragliding, rafting, f1, motogp, speeding tickets etc... ;)

[Ed]

Scythe, it's about £45 return on the train Folkestone - Calais. Then as dyz says... generally a bit cheaper in France than here. And warmer:D

[STRAMASHER]

From Ijmuiden we made it down to our first night in Frankenstein (well ya gotta, plus excellent cheap accom and beer and middle of nowhere) no bother. Near Kaiserslautern and the Pfalzerwald. Great and famous biking road (48)through forests, all beautifully surfaced and sweepy on way to Black Forest.
I'm afraid to say the B500 just blended into the other roads in the Black Forest. Spoilt for choice.


I have tried twice to get up to the Pia Gloria in Interlaken, Switzerland (The James Bond OHMSS place.) Unfortunately been rained/fogged off both times. Maybe 3rd time lucky.
The point being its a beautiful part of the world and you are near one of its highlights. The Susten,Grimsel and Furka passes. They are awesome roads. I would go as far as saying unmissable.

Furkapass
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/stramasher/SV3000661.jpg

South of here, Zermatt is worth a trip, park and coached up (only leccy vehicles in Zermatt) and a few cable car trips up to a proper looking mountain, The Matterhorn.

Eastern Switzerland is quiet bit more green but still top twisty passes and roads.... and takes you within spitting distance of the Stelvio.

Fluelapass, near Davos.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/stramasher/P1020477.jpg

[STRAMASHER]

Fantastic pics, I really want to go over there sometime within the next 2 years.

What are the costs involved like?

If your always skint (hello :smt039) the trick is to get the costly stuff done early. Like the ferry. I usually try and get it booked november for the following year. Then you have also set in stone that you are heading off and will make the sacrifices that are maybe necessary.

Go for a week instead of two, a few days if your Darn Sarf. Avoid toll roads (Swiss/Austria, Germany all free). Accomodation is plentiful and much cheaper if you are out in the sticks as oppossed to famous touristy places. In the mountains summer is generally regarded as low season so prices can be very good. Gasthoffs/Gasthaus/Pension are like B&B's and sometimes easily missed in towns. Tenting it much cheaper again.

May and June are the cheapest times to go, but weather in the mountains can still be bad. Passes closed etc. Some higher passes in The Alps were closed last week in June due to snow.

[dyzio]

Looks like you've done all of the trips I'm planning to do :D

[dyzio]

That's a bit weird...

Tried looking at the ticket prices for the Newcastle Amsterdam crossing on the provisional dates (2&3rd week of July) and got quoted £500 for 2.

If you try the same booking for April/May/September ic comes up with £330 :confused:

[Ed]

Always more £ in summer holidays.

[dyzio]

Didn't expect them to go this high this early :/

[Luckypants]

Summer prices are set a long time before we think of booking them.

[Bluefish]

yep, will still be summer at those times no matter when you book ;)
just checked prices for 21st july for two weeks for the car 118 on the ferry, dover calais, and 106 on the eurotunnel, guess we will be going by train this year :D. Still a lot more than the 34 spent going on the ferry by bike the last two times. Lol as i was typing this the mrs was getting the prices on her phone and it kept getting cheaper, the eurotunnel started off at 150 quid, then just by changeing the times you save a reasonable ammount.

[Tim in Belgium]

Holland is very dull for biking, have you thought about riding over the Yorkshire Moors to Hull then going Hull Rotterdam? Then you can do 2 hours motorway down to the belgian Ardennes, cross the Ardennes into Germany and the Eifel before heading to the Black Forest.

As for Switzerland, Furka/Grimsel/Susten pass area is great.

[dyzio]

I've done the Hull crossing before, it's an extra 150 miles from here (the return trip just dragged on and on...), plus the Newcastle ferry is usually pretty good fun :drunken: ;)

Hmm... Tim, you know that area don't you?
If you have a few spare minutes, cloud you googlemap a route from Amsterdam to say, Titisee-Neustadt, or somewhere around there?
Something like 2 days of twisty back roads, no motorways unless necessary (eg getting out of Holland)?

[Tim in Belgium]

Dyzio,

I'd autoroute down past Brussels, get off at Namur, ride up to Dinant and may be a bit further up the river, Rochefort, La Roche en Ardenne, Stavelot (Spa), Malmedy, cross to Germany, Schleiden, Blankenheim, Nurburg, Cochem, Idar Oberstein, Wissembourg, Baden-Baden, B500 to Tittisee. Or something along that general direction.

I like to use the via Michelin map site, much nicer than google for browsing maps.

[dyzio]

Cheers, came up with this (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=A208&daddr=50.3579,4.87241+to:50.24424,4.96479+to:50.22 392,5.01714+to:Rochefort+to:50.1116223,5.3883919+t o:La+Roche+en+Ardenne+to:Stavelot,+Belgium+to:Malm edy,+Belgium+to:Schleiden+to:Blankenheim,+Germany+ to:N%C3%BCrburg,+Germany+to:50.26845,7.02365+to:Co chem,+Germany+to:Idar+Oberstein+to:Wissembourg+to: 48.98659,7.98658+to:Baden-Baden,+Germany+to:48.6765,8.23514+to:48.611349,8.1 9325+to:48.52243,8.21739+to:Titisee-Neustadt,+Germany&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=50.134664,8.734131&spn=6.035819,16.907959&sll=50.341517,4.98024&sspn=0.187779,0.528374&geocode=FRjKHwMdNs5GAA%3BFYxmAAMd2lhKACnlpjEX95bBR zHXGXxsXnjBjQ%3BFZCq_gIdtsFLAClJiQB2fb_BRzHUO0UUzw ThkA%3BFTBb_gIdNI5MAClDOszhRcfBRzFbZ9YwHy-UPA%3BFfRf_QIdFq9PACljFprIRsnBRzEgb00vq5kABA%3BFYa k_AIdZzhSACm_aT7KbzHARzEz0fdCx9J9lg%3BFfC1_QId8RRV AClD-QaX2jjARzFZMAXTF36A2w%3BFWL2AAMd-npaACkLGv68z2TARzEy5fH1dRHZtQ%3BFVN1AQMdEfJbACn5rO emvX7ARzGRZlrlhq7tcw%3BFcrnAgMdusBiACkfkoLCd3a_RzG FG7mbq5oiPw%3BFfGgAQMdDUplAClf8uu4OqG_RzExDhZlKRaR NQ%3BFe0sAAMdvhdqACkNczx4Lq2_RzHw4toQ1dQiBA%3BFSIJ _wIdIixrAClNa0i9z02-RzEBE_8B1dQiEw%3BFaAz_QIdb3BtACkVSL0PC0e-RzGQKqhpniShvA%3BFWCV9gIdj39vACkBUcGGG_SVRzESBU8i-8OzwQ%3BFTo-7AIdXDl5ACnlRRwCm_aWRzH1LnRaY9a-xA%3BFd556wIdlN15AClTdEwa6PCWRzGxzE2tuV8KEw%3BFcga 6AIdrI59AClFMfeRQx-XRzHBxfMzGSkPYw%3BFZS-5gIdhKh9ACm7XaI-WCGXRzGWadjFhdTCYQ%3BFRXA5QId4gR9ACkfpDOWaiaXRzHA1 8EBcG9R6g%3BFb5k5AIdLmN9ACmBIW4gvi6XRzGB63Oyt2sfEw %3BFfok2wIdVkV9ACnnCZxT2fGQRzGw5jqWBR1RoQ&oq=ti&vpsrc=6&dirflg=t&doflg=ptm&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=12&via=1,2,3,5,12,16,18,19,20&t=m&z=7), looks fun :)

We'll either do that or cut the trip by one day and autobahn the first day down south.

[ogden]

If you want to find decent roads, grab the Michelin regional maps for the areas you're looking at and go for any yellow road with a green edge. You simply can't go wrong. Red roads with a green edge can be stunning, but they can also be really heavy on traffic and just picturesque rather than fun to ride.

The mountain roads in Switzerland are stunning but the dibbles can be a bit tetchy. On one trip I did we were stopped a the border post and it cost 400 euros *per person* as a deposit towards the fine, with the balance payable by post after it'd gone to court. That was just speeding and a slightly cavalier attitude to double white lines. Mind you, the Germans can be as bad. 1300 euros between five of us. Play carefully. And if you've got a seriously loud exhaust, avoid Germany - if you get tugged, they'll take a very close interest in any (locally illegal) modifications.

Austria's great, absolutely amazing, and the passes into Italy are universally stunning. But avoid the road north of Lake Konstanz if you go that far east. It's the. single. most. tedious. road. on. earth.

Oh, and don't worry about the big name passes. They're all well and good, but often a bit heavy on the neverending series of hairpins. Little roads winding through mountain valleys usually offer at least as many grins per mile and I've never seen cops on any of them.

If you stick closer to home, around the Black Forest, don't underestimate the Vosges, just across the Rhine. They're not as high, and there are no massive passes like the Alps, but the roads are an absolute hoot, give or take the odd cobbled hairpin.

[dyzio]

Sounds like fun :) the trip, not the tickets.

So far bike is standard'ish but legal, so should be ok.

[L3nny]

I went to the Black Forest in 2010. There is a write up Here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2376243#post2376243)

To be honest the Black Forest wasn't the best part of the trip. The roads can get quite busy and you have to be really be going silly speeds to make the most of the roads.

In the alps the roads are narrower and the bends are tighter so you can have fun at normal speeds.

[dyzio]

There is a write up Here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2376243#post2376243)

Thanks, can you remember where this was?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs319.ash2/59977_473269775902_582995902_7060355_6470376_n.jpg

[IanG]

That looks like the view you get when you are going from Lake Como in Italy upto St Moritz in Switzerland. I have the same picture. Stunning scenery edge of a glacier

[L3nny]

Yes, it's around there somewhere, I will ask my mate who was navigating if he knows exactly.

If you are on that road though you can't miss it as there are coach loads of tourists stopping there taking photos.

[ogden]

I did the Como to St Moritz road a few years ago. I'm sure the scenery's amazing, but my focus was entirely on not becoming part of it.

Cracking road though, apart from the super-tight wiggly bit near the top of the pass.

[Tim in Belgium]

Thanks, can you remember where this was?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs319.ash2/59977_473269775902_582995902_7060355_6470376_n.jpg

Here?

http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/18337/2243716440084392296S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2243716440084392296qcbOkH)

... and on in the direction of St Morritz, where I turned up the Passo Del Bernina.

[Ed]

yep you just look for the train line with the overhead wires;););)

[victor_meldrew]

Swiss motorways are not free !
True they do not have a toll booth every ten miles, but you are supposed to buy a motorway 'carnet' type ticket - cost me 40 Euro for the year (even though you are only staying a few days !) if you enter via the major border crossing points which are on the motorways ... the trick is to go into Switzerland via one of the 'back roads' and stay off the motorway, or take your chance on the m'way without one if you get stopped (its the first thing they look for !!)

[dyzio]

Aye, the annual vignette is a pain, but hopefully I'll avoid Swiss motorways altogether.

[Loopydog]

Big thumbs up for the Ardennes, the Eifel and the Mosel, in its own right or as a place on route to the Alps. We live here and it's great for biking and bikers.
Should you want any advice 'on the ground' as it were, give me a shout. Also if you're after a place to stay, we do B&B and self-catering at 15 euros pn for forum members. Or just drop by for a cuppa and cakes and say hello.

[dyzio]

Which Mosel is that Loopy? I found three :D

[Loopydog]

The River Mosel, feeding into the Rhein at Koblenz. It's wonderful all along its length, but especially the middle section from Trier to Cochem. Also the surrounding forest and hill areas to the south and north of the Hunsreuk and Eifel (the latter has the Nurburgring, but all the roads are brilliant)

[Doinitmyway]

The River Mosel, feeding into the Rhein at Koblenz. It's wonderful all along its length, but especially the middle section from Trier to Cochem. Also the surrounding forest and hill areas to the south and north of the Hunsreuk and Eifel (the latter has the Nurburgring, but all the roads are brilliant)

+1 to that!

Did a long weekend in that area last year and was fantastic. Staying there this year as a stepping stone on the way down to the Deutsche Alpenstrasse and Grossglockner. Want to retire there.......then the alarm clock goes off and I wake up :smt089

Chris