View Full Version : Slid out in the wet again :( (Video)
Seeming to be getting good at this, second time in 2 weeks i've crashed now. Last time was on a long left bend, rear end started sliding throttle off, gripped and highsided me smashing tank/bars/leavers and putting a hole in the engine.
Now while off on a bumble to get food i slide out the roundabout down the a49 doing all of 20mph. Engine bars i put on after last crash did their job nicely though!
Annnd i managed to get it on video while testing out a new camera mount i made on a boring day off. Though you might like a look and a chance to tell me the bike should be in the garage over winter :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjD5E-xeunc&feature=youtu.be
Owenski
14-12-11, 02:55 PM
Hope you're ok,
Are you brakes ok?
Thats a very odd situation to come off unless diesil / other factors were at play. I mean yeah its wet but damp is more apt, its not like you're spraying up through standing water, the road looks fairly clear apart from in the gutter.
Im not meaning to be a jerk, I genuinely think some other factors are at work here. All I can think off the top of my head is maybe you're brakes are semi-on (mabye damaged in the earlier off). and any extra braking on your part is just enough to slip out the front.
Slippy Road.Odd dark patch on the vid.
Long as your OK thats the main thing.
Paul the 6th
14-12-11, 03:14 PM
what time of day was it? What was the ambient temperature at the time?
Brettus
14-12-11, 03:30 PM
Was that this morning? there were a lot of freezing rain patches, I ended up taking the car this morning but only by chance, I was about to take the bike but after sliding around in the car and almost ending up on my ass on the car park I realised it was really slippery out there today, in patches at least. Glad you are OK and the bike was protected though, sucks to come off at any speed.
Where abouts on the A49 was it?
speedyctr
14-12-11, 03:38 PM
Glad your OK. That's on my way to/from work although i go straight on there. Where were you going for food!?
Did you have a look to see if there was ice or diesel on the road? From 7am till about 10am there was ice on the car park here in Whitchurch.
My bike is now in the garage on weekdays but will come out at weekends weather permitting.
I did spot that Mister C is on his as always....
Didn't look fun sir :(.
This is why I don't even contemplate riding in the rain.
Very unlucky!
Very good footage tho' what camera and a picture of your home made mount?
Owenski
14-12-11, 04:28 PM
Slippy Road.Odd dark patch on the vid.
Long as your OK thats the main thing.
I dont see it, only the normal wheel tracks markings running parallel to the kerb. :(
Didnt think of ice though, it was cold here this morning but not cold enough for ice maybe we're saved by the pennines :)
Aye its great you're ok, but if its summa wrong with the bike which is causing the off's then obviously that needs addressing.
We did step the vid frame by frame hear. 6 seconds in there is a dark patch,looks like its just in front of the dark Tyre mark.
yep were board
Was today at 12.01 on my way to the raven cafe with a mate to grab a fry up! Temp was about 4-5 degrees not warm but we though we had left it long enough to avoid the worst of the ice.
I don't believe i had touched the brakes, but can never be sure. Also don't think it was a case of being early on the throttle as i can't hear it in the video.
Went back around the roundabout to see if i could see anything but nothing was apparent.
I'm putting it down the excuse of a rear tire the bike came with. Its done nothing but slide around every time i go out. Almost lost the back end just yesterday pulling onto a duel carriage way and the rear slipped out as i pulled off and almost put me on my ass in front of a lorry! Coupled with the 2 other times ive crashed all have been due to the back end losing grip.
Time to get a new one me thinks.
Dicky Ticker
14-12-11, 05:19 PM
Slow down in adverse conditions,I know you aren't going that fast but you have been lucky twice now so take a bit of advice and take your time.Black ice just looks like water.
Dicky Ticker
14-12-11, 05:34 PM
Reading some of your other posts I take it you are not very old and not likely to be if you carry on like this
I will probably get slated for that comment but for Gods sake learn by your mistakes
PLEASE before you get really hurt or worse.
Get a set of new hoops.
There are some bits of road that are just rubbish.
There a slippry bit on one of the roundabouts on my way home ,damp its grip then nothing.
Take it steady ,be smooth and it will soon be summer.
In my first 2 years riding the sv i came off about 6 times, 4 of those were on wet rounderbouts, you have not just a little less but significantly less lateral grip in the wet, keep the bike as upright as possible, shift your weight rather than lean and also use the line of least resistance where possible, i often use all 3 lanes on a wet rounderbout if its clear, on the vid i though you were going straight over at first. Glad your ok tho matey
yorkie_chris
14-12-11, 06:27 PM
How many miles did you ride before that roundabout?
Going on the angle of lean you can see simply giving it a whiff of throttle would be enough to start the back end off coming round.
Sporty or rock-hard old tyres don't help, especially in cold and damp conditions with salt thrown in for good measure.
Too much lean angle and you turned a bit sharpish. You had a completely clear run through that roundabout with no other traffic around, why didn't you straight line it to keep the bike more upright and lessen the odds of crashing?
squirrel_hunter
14-12-11, 06:54 PM
This is why I don't even contemplate riding in the rain.
Out of interest what do you do if you're out riding in the dry and then it starts to rain?
missyburd
14-12-11, 06:57 PM
Ooof how very unfortunate. Certainly happened quick enough. Surprised you had to lean so much though given the circumstances.
Out of interest what do you do if you're out riding in the dry and then it starts to rain?
Maybe he pulls over for a large hot beverage with a tot of whisky to calm the nerves before venturing back out once the evil water has stopped pouring from the sky and the roads are dry....:p
maviczap
14-12-11, 07:03 PM
Out of interest what do you do if you're out riding in the dry and then it starts to rain?
I can't comment, as I'm subject to a gagging order ;)
Out of interest what do you do if you're out riding in the dry and then it starts to rain?
Gets his dad out and puts it the back of a van....
-Ralph-
14-12-11, 07:53 PM
Big diesel spill? Difficult to tell from a freeze frame on a laptop screen, but if you freeze frame at this point there's definitely a large patch of reddy/bluey colouring on my screen, and you can see where it's been dragged right round the roundabout. It was a bit of an aggressive tip in for this time of year to be honest. You just need to take it easier and learn that you can't ride the same as you do in the summer.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/diesel.jpg
Go home... No interest in wet riding what so ever. Couldn't care less what anyone else thinks :)
This thread isn't about me and let's not make it that way either.
Big diesel spill? Difficult to tell from a freeze frame on a laptop screen, but if you freeze frame at this point there's definitely a large patch of reddy/bluey colouring on my screen, and you can see where it's been dragged right round the roundabout. It was a bit of an aggressive tip in for this time of year to be honest. You just need to take it easier and learn that you can't ride the same as you do in the summer.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/diesel.jpg
On the entrance on the left there are some rainbow streaks... .
Geodude
14-12-11, 08:03 PM
Owch glad you were ok. I cant lean like that in the dry never mind this time of the year ;) I always expect diesel on roundabouts.
Go home... No interest in wet riding what so ever. Couldn't care less what anyone else thinks :)
This thread isn't about me and let's not make it that way either.
No, no... lets derail, because you're very good at it until you're at the receiving end :-)
squirrel_hunter
14-12-11, 08:08 PM
Go home... No interest in wet riding what so ever. Couldn't care less what anyone else thinks :)
Strange. But each to their own.
No, no... lets derail, because you're very good at it until you're at the receiving end :-)
Not like that at all and you know it... It's just been done to death and I have nothing else to add. Start an entire thread about it if you want :) not sure what else anyone expects me to say other than I enjoy riding quickly and I don't feel that I can do that in the rain so therefore I find no enjoyment in it. Plus I have vented gloves and nothing is waterproof... Sooooooo
Had done about 50 miles beforehand including some spirited riding down the A49.
I was infact turning right on the roundabout and due to no traffic went out to the left to make it a less Sharp turn haha
It's a new ish bike to me, my SV was always quite happy to go around roundabouts in the wet with no problems with my pilots on it, never a wiggle!
Mind was on food so probably not too much thought went into my lean angles, lesson learnt there!
-Ralph-
14-12-11, 08:32 PM
I was infact turning right on the roundabout and due to no traffic went out to the left to make it a less Sharp turn haha
No you didn't, whether you meant it or not, you went out to the left to swing wide, but then tipped back in to hit the apex on the inside of the roundabout to drive through on the 'racing line'. You made the turn steeper.
chrisinflight
14-12-11, 08:50 PM
Thanks for posting this thread. I think it`s your tyres but I would also check your head-stock bearings for play and other steering components like fork straightness etc. Something wrong with the turn as if you turned more than you wanted to. (a hungry man may over-emphasise though).
I had a near miss this morning at 07h35 going 30mph with a generous following distance- the car in front stopped suddenly due to a parked car but everybody else goes for the gap without stopping so it caught me unawares.
I hit rear brake and it locked up and had to do that x3 to stop in time. The front locked abit too but mostly stayed off the front brake. I put it down to wet road with fresh grit and cold tyres as I only ride 3.5 miles to work. Gave me a refresher that cars can stop unexpectedly and quicker than bikes. The car behind me had a bit of entertainment though!
cheers
Yer this was perhaps just a reminder to myself as well as others that infact riding in the wet/cold is really nothing like summer everything is harder:rolleyes:
AndyBrad
14-12-11, 09:08 PM
looks a bit strange to me.
a fair bit of lean for that corner but i dont know what its like so it might need it. to me it looks like the front went and not the back but im not sure. you can tell us what exactally happened. If its gone like that before i would look at a few things. firstly how your sat on the bike. With such a low speed corner once you feel it going i like to be in a position to try and pick it back up again. Ok allways not possible but on a naked you might be leaning too far at low speeds.
Failing that i would look at the rubber. the alignment front to back and the brakes. the fact that youve done 40+ miles just before you took this corner rules out cold tyres which would have been my first thought. get the bike checked out and then go out with someone else and see what they think?
Paul the 6th
14-12-11, 09:14 PM
oh oh oh me me me...
what tyres?
Dicky Ticker
14-12-11, 09:14 PM
"Everything is harder"----even rain doesn't make the tarmac feel softer--but you slide better ;)
yorkie_chris
14-12-11, 09:17 PM
Thanks for posting this thread. I think it`s your tyres but I would also check your head-stock bearings for play and other steering components like fork straightness etc. Something wrong with the turn as if you turned more than you wanted to. (a hungry man may over-emphasise though).
That's usually what happens when the rear lets go, the rear overtakes the front around the outside, dumping you on the deck in the process.
missyburd
14-12-11, 09:26 PM
It's a new ish bike to me, my SV was always quite happy to go around roundabouts in the wet with no problems with my pilots on it, never a wiggle!
What tyres have you got on it now? As I guess depending on the profile you might end up tipping into corners quicker than normal...but then you'd think you'd have settled into the ride a bit after 40/50 miles...?
Probably obvious but I suppose you can rule out leaky fork seals and oil on your brakes...?
Thinking lean angle was a factor along with my lack of rear grip put me on my ****, never had anything like this with the SV, grip level always seemed far higher , perhaps with it being my first naked bike I'm still trying to ride it like the SV , will get the rubber sorted and see where that gets me!
missyburd
14-12-11, 09:27 PM
Oh this little off wasn't on your SV? I thought that was what you were saying but didn't know if you meant it felt a new-ish bike because of new shoes :-P
Fruity-ya-ya
14-12-11, 09:32 PM
Ouch, the Mrs and I just watched it, both winching as the camera pointed upwards.
Glad you're okay.
Lets not make it three eh ;)
Youch. I know the feeling albeit on track. What cam you got?
Ahh yer, sorry for not being clear ! Sold the SV a few months back and since haven't had the new kwikasfuki out too much due to weather .
Haven't got a action cam yet so just my HD camcorder mounted to the bars via a strange set up involving a few bolts and a small ring spanner bolted into the hole where my mirror should go, will post a pic tomorrow when I'm home from work .
missyburd
15-12-11, 09:47 AM
the new kwikasfuki
:neutral: :rolleyes:
Red Herring
15-12-11, 04:27 PM
I didn't think you were particularly quick, or leaning over that much for the apparent conditions, and that is pretty much the line I would have taken for a right turn. It's all the unknown factors that make the difference and has already been said without being there it's hard to comment on the road surface, temperature or your tyres. My first thought was road surface, but for it to let go that quickly unprovoked whatever could have been on the road would have been fairly obvious. If you say you went around again afterwards and couldn't see anything then that sort of eliminates that. The fact that you have done 50 odd miles beforehand starts to rule out tyre temperature, but what condition are they in? Is it possible you were dragging a bit of back brake?
loonytoon
16-12-11, 12:25 AM
i watched it again an again it looks like the back steps out a little on the white line entering the round about.
it might just be me but you seem to hesitate a little then tip in a little sudden.
what tyres do you have fitted? if the back has gone on you twice in as many weeks something has too be causing it, no oil leaks or anything daft like that dripping oil onto the rear tyre?
Specialone
16-12-11, 12:57 AM
I didnt think lean angle and speed were that bad imo, i would guess diesel or unusally slippy road surface.
Either that or your tyres are really bad, squared off or pressures wrong or all three.
Strange one though as we've all took islands at those speeds in the wet im sure and not crashed.
Bluepete
16-12-11, 01:31 AM
The conditions overcame your talent.
Slow down, pay attention to the road in minute detail and think a bit more.
Harsh? Maybe.
True? ... I think so.
Glad you're ok, learn from it and evolve as a bker.
Pete
suzukigt380paul
17-12-11, 01:39 AM
i no there is more to it then wet or dry roads,but if you talk to a tyre manufacturer they will tell you that modern tyres grip as well in the wet as they do in the dry,and if it wasn't diesel/oil on the road or ice then i would check out the rear shock,if it has lost its damping it wont work as well and cause less grip,also if the tyre is more then a few years old it may have gone hard and not be as pliable
-Ralph-
17-12-11, 01:07 PM
There are modern tyres such as the nw PR3 that seem to grip extremey well in the wet, but you cant make a blanket statement like that about all modern tyres. Some of the stuff fitted to sports bikes nowadays have only the bare minimum tread pattern needed to be road legal, and without an effective tread pattrn a tyre cannot perform well in the wet.
Paul the 6th
17-12-11, 01:13 PM
I see what gt380paul is getting at but as Ralph says there are some mind bendingly shït tyres on the market. IMO Dunlop d220's (standard hoops on sv650) should be bloody banned!
I'm gagging for a set of pr2's on mine atm, came from dealer with mismatched tyres (metzeler on rear & something else non memorable on't front) - had a bit of a wobble on first ride out & ever since I'm not happy about them. Hope the bike is an easy fix & glad op is ok. Props to him for posting video, I know I might have been a wee bit red faced but it can happen to all of us & serves as a reminder how easy it is..
I've got fairly new PR3s with 5mm plus of tread on my Versys and they are very very good tyres that give loads of grip and feel under all conditions - the FJR13 has a pair of quite well worn (under 3mm) BT023s, and to be perfectly honest, I feel safer on wet or slippery roads with those tyres than I do on the PR3s. I haven't a clue why because I have all faith and confidence in the Michelins, but the Bridgestones just suit me better.
Paul the 6th
18-12-11, 11:43 AM
Is the versys on standard suspension? Be interesting the how the bikes felt if they were running pr3's at the same time & then Bridgestone's..
I've heard everyone going on about the pr3's awesomeness in the wet but still want a set of 2's since I found them very good in the wet but even better in the dry
Can't knock the PR3s on the KTM, although I haven't tried 023s - 021s and 015s didn't fill me with a lot of confidence on other bikes, while I've been able to be quite silly in most weathers since fitting the PR3s (certainly compared to the OEM Sport Attacks).
Olie - the BT021s were shiite, 023s are a much better design of tyre.
The Versys has standard suspension and it's been good enough for me to leave as it came from factory and ride around any faults it has... even on a trackday with these PR3s fitted.
http://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/1756082
Due to the style of bike and the amount of suspension travel I wasn't expecting sportsbike handling and I didn't get it, but it copes very well with what you throw under the tyres.
I'd like to try some BT023s on the Versys to see if it's the tyres or me being a little more precious about the bike I own, rather than the one I don't and which I know is destined to end up in bits on ebay regardless of whether it survives the winter intact or not.
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