Hard wiring Tom Tom rider

[bigchris]

Hi all

Treated myself to a Tom Tom rider over Xmas. :-)
It came with the active charging mount and my plan is to splice into the wires in the headlamp so I have a switched power source for the charging lead.
My bikes naked so plenty of room in the headlight for the charging cable with a 1.5A in line fuse on the + side as an additional backup to the riders inner fuse.
My question is how do I identify which wires are positive and negative??
I'm currently looking at the wiring diagram for my bike but I'm unsure of which is positive and negative?
Are dotted wires positive and solid wires negative?

Happy new year to all :-)


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434940,-1.463530

[-Ralph-]

I wouldn't to be honest, though I don't think you'd cause any problems with the current draw at the headlight if you're set on doing it that way.

Secondly you could wire a 30amp switched relay powering suitable distribution block off your battery. That way you can wire into that and any future accessories straight into the same distribution block.

Also if you have the Rider v3 it has an 8-9 hour battery life. If you don't use the battery (ie: charge, discharge, charge, discharge) then the battery will deteriorate very quickly. What happens with charging mounts that are permanently live with the ignition is that the battery is on charge every time it is used, and very soon you'll find your battery can't hold a charge. I didn't get an active mount with mine and so far I've never needed it, I've never been more than 8 hours away from a 240 volt socket. I'm going to France camping for 4 days in April, so I am going to get an active mount, but I'm going to wire an inline switch under the pillion seat, so I can choose when the active mount is live, use the TomTom off the battery one day, then charge the next day, battery the next day, etc, etc.

[-Ralph-]

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/sv650S-E02-wiring.jpg

[-Ralph-]

And in colour, use the zoom feature on your browser and you can just make it out. It's the highest resolution copy I have I'm afraid.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/sv650S-E02-wiring2.jpg

[Specialone]

You don't need a wiring diagram to identify lives etc, just a meter, it's the safest way.

Personally I wouldn't tap into the headlight circuit, the circuits on a bike are designed with cable thickness and suitably rated fuse etc for that purpose, they don't expect people to power other things off them.

Use a relay, it's the safest and professional way to do it IMO the headlight could be the relay signal but it won't pull hardly any current.

[bigchris]

Cheers for the reply Ralph, I see what your saying about the Tom toms battery.
My plan is to charge it at home and then if the battery runs out while im out on the bike I can then plug the power cable into the mount.
Constantly powering it through the active mount won't do the battery any good?

Think I am going to go with the relay option as I want to put some hot grips on and a charging point for my phone.

What gauge wire would you suggest to wire the relay up?




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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434931,-1.463566

[bigchris]

You don't need a wiring diagram to identify lives etc, just a meter, it's the safest way.

Personally I wouldn't tap into the headlight circuit, the circuits on a bike are designed with cable thickness and suitably rated fuse etc for that purpose, they don't expect people to power other things off them.

Use a relay, it's the safest and professional way to do it IMO the headlight could be the relay signal but it won't pull hardly any current.

Cheers fella, how do you use a meter to identify live and negative?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434929,-1.463517

[-Ralph-]

Cheers for the reply Ralph, I see what your saying about the Tom toms battery.
My plan is to charge it at home and then if the battery runs out while im out on the bike I can then plug the power cable into the mount.
Constantly powering it through the active mount won't do the battery any good?

Think I am going to go with the relay option as I want to put some hot grips on and a charging point for my phone.

What gauge wire would you suggest to wire the relay up?

OK, not having had my hands on an Active mount myself, I may be over complicating things. I have only used the Garmin one before where the cables are permanently connected to the mount and unplugging it is not an option.

Does the cable unplug from the mount then? If so I won't bother with the switch, I'll wire it off a relay and like you only plug in the cable when it's needed.

No, constantly powering it through the mount won't do your battery any favours, you only want to charge it when it needs to be charged. Also the first 5 times or so that you charge it, do it in the house off the 240v charger, and leave it a good 8 hours at a time from fully discharged (leave switched on and on the windowsill to discharge it fully after your ride if you need to).

Cheers fella, how do you use a meter to identify live and negative?

Do you have a multimeter or any experience with electrics at all? If you are wiring a relay under the seat, the nearest live feed to use is probably the feed to the rear brake switch.

[-Ralph-]

Note that this chart is in feet, not inches, so 18 gauge will be plenty for a 30A relay, which will be ample for a couple of charging devices and a set of hot grips, but there's no harm in using something thicker if that's what you have in your garage. I used the cable from the inside of a piece of flex which I had cut of an old domestic appliance, that's more like 12 gauge.

http://www.jkowners.com/tech/electrical/ampacity.jpg

[Specialone]

Cheers fella, how do you use a meter to identify live and negative?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434929,-1.463517

Basically, a simple meter will do, ac voltage (~), dc voltage (-) and continuity.

It needs to be set to Dc voltage and some have a range, so for example the range might be 4-40v and as your bike is 12v then that's what you would use.
Then the red and black prongs are red for live, black for negative ( or neutral if ac)
Stick the black on an earth, or a clean screw or bolt that's on the frame, and the red in the wire or connector you wanna check.

Obviously, the wire you think is the one you want, keep the prongs on and turn the ignition on and off and you should see the meter display drop.

Hth

[Specialone]

Col, if you wanted to still switch your mount on and off, you can switch the signal to the relay instead, although the relay will have power to it all the time it won't be energised until the signal energises it.

[tigersaw]

When I ran a GPS on my SV I spliced into the position lamp rather than the headlamp.
YOu could also change the 5w wedge for a LED version if worried, that will offset the power the charger consumes.

[-Ralph-]

Col, if you wanted to still switch your mount on and off, you can switch the signal to the relay instead, although the relay will have power to it all the time it won't be energised until the signal energises it.

If the TomTom Active mount has a separate cable, I'm just going wire that cable into a cigar lighter plug and use the cigar socket. Then I can move the mount between the two bikes which both have permanently live cigar sockets. With a 8-9 hour battery life, I'd only need to plug it in once every two days, then unplug it again once charged. As I wire my cigar sockets permanently live, it also means it can continue to charge uninterrupted on the bike at stops and next to the tent in the evening too.

[bigchris]

OK, not having had my hands on an Active mount myself, I may be over complicating things. I have only used the Garmin one before where the cables are permanently connected to the mount and unplugging it is not an option.

Does the cable unplug from the mount then? If so I won't bother with the switch, I'll wire it off a relay and like you only plug in the cable when it's needed.

Yes the cable unplugs from the mount.

No, constantly powering it through the mount won't do your battery any favours, you only want to charge it when it needs to be charged. Also the first 5 times or so that you charge it, do it in the house off the 240v charger, and leave it a good 8 hours at a time from fully discharged (leave switched on and on the windowsill to discharge it fully after your ride if you need to).



Do you have a multimeter or any experience with electrics at all? If you are wiring a relay under the seat, the nearest live feed to use is probably the feed to the rear brake switch.

I wired my hotgrips into the main loom but that's about the extent of my electrical talent. I am reading up on relays and multimeters though




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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.435063,-1.463841

[bigchris]

UPDATE.

Hi all,

i have rigged up a relay to power the tom tom following this guide http://bolty.net/2008/10/21/sv650-mod-relay-and-distribution-block/

everything went fine until i tapped into the number plate light. the relay clicks open when i turn the key and power comes through but only when i have the lights on? and if i switch between high and low beam the relay clicks each time??

Thinking i had tapped into the wrong wire to the number plate light i spliced into the other and now the relay does nothing when the key is turned regardless of the lights being on or off??

just realised the guide i followed is for a pointy ( lights on constantly, no option to switch them off???).
Is this why im getting the symptoms i described above?
As i have a curvy do i need to tapp into a live that is on all the time once the ignition is on?
If so where would be a good place to tapp into?

thanks for your input guys.

[maviczap]

One would assume that the relay only works when you switch the lights on, because that's when the wire becomes live?

On the other wire not working at all, have you tapped into the brake light wire perhaps, so does the relay work when you operate the brakes?

[bigchris]

One would assume that the relay only works when you switch the lights on, because that's when the wire becomes live?

yes, but i thought one wire was live all the time?

On the other wire not working at all, have you tapped into the brake light wire perhaps, so does the relay work when you operate the brakes?



i dont think so as both the wires i tapped into were to the same connector?
the number plate light also wasnt on when i dissconnected this connector.
Also this connector was a lot smaller than the brake light connector?

[Specialone]

Yeah you need a ignition live, in other words one that's a constant live once ignition is on, just a case of testing a few until you find one.

[-Ralph-]

Well at least you found a way to switch power to the mount! ;)

If you are wiring a relay under the seat, the nearest live feed to use is probably the feed to the rear brake switch.

:winner:

[maviczap]

Well that's the extent of my electrical help Big Chris

I tried to use my Optimate chaging lead connector under the seat as a semi permanent connection using some of these on the end of my TomTom wiring.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adaptor-Connector-Optimate-Accumate-Battery-Charger-/180597735828?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a0c76c194#ht_1602wt_1344

Would have worked, had my Optimate lead not been buggered somehow, as everything I've connected to it hasn't worked, penny didn't drop until I connected my Autocom directly to the battery.

[bigchris]

Well at least you found a way to switch power to the mount! ;)



:winner:

lol, yea i errrrrr meant to do it!;)

[tigersaw]

You used choclate block connectors on a motorbike?
They will turn into corrosion city before you know it

[bigchris]

Yeah you need a ignition live, in other words one that's a constant live once ignition is on, just a case of testing a few until you find one.

any idea where to start? im a bit worried about overloading the relay if i tapp into too much power??

[bigchris]

You used choclate block connectors on a motorbike?
They will turn into corrosion city before you know it

erm... yea. they will be coated in dialectric grease when its all working.
what other options could i use?

[Specialone]

The live on a relay should come directly from the battery so can't overload it, the switch or signal live uses a minuscule bit of power just to energise the relay.

[-Ralph-]

Yeah you need a ignition live, in other words one that's a constant live once ignition is on, just a case of testing a few until you find one.

any idea where to start? im a bit worried about overloading the relay if i tapp into too much power??

Sorry mate, but are you actually reading any of the f***ing advice people are posting for you here?

I'll try repeating it for the third time for you....

If you are wiring a relay under the seat, the nearest live feed to use is probably the feed to the rear brake switch.

It's live all the time the ignition is on, it's close to the battery, and it's pi$$ easy to find because there are only two wires running to the rear brake switch (that's connected to your rear brake lever!), one live feed to the switch, and one that carries the current back from the switch when your foot is depressing the brake lever. No farting around with a multimeter trying to find one, just tap into that, job done! As Specialone says your main 'un-switched' live feed can come straight off your battery.

[bigchris]

The live on a relay should come directly from the battery so can't overload it, the switch or signal live uses a minuscule bit of power just to energise the relay.

ahh i see now. sorry im not entirely clued up with electrics!!
i can sense a vehicle fire coming on!!!!! :confused:

[tigersaw]

erm... yea. they will be coated in dialectric grease when its all working.
what other options could i use?

Well I would not have bothered with all this relay malarkey anyway, but at least put it in a sealed box with grommets for the cable exits.