Speed Limits Question

[-Ralph-]

Came through Northampton tonight on this route and for a while I wasn't sure what the speed limit was, that SHOULD never happen...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Mill+Ln&daddr=Harborough+Rd+N%2FA508&hl=en&ll=52.267737,-0.899677&spn=0.035455,0.104628&sll=52.281707,-0.896974&sspn=0.017722,0.052314&geocode=FZFmHQMd2Svy_w%3BFWe4HQMdBzXy_w&vpsrc=6&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=15&t=m&z=14

At the start of the route it's a 40mph limit, note the repeater sign

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.25903,-0.904784&spn=0.008866,0.026157&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.258966,-0.904942&panoid=LxZCzmiN4rxjMkovvJTSJQ&cbp=12,43.01,,0,11.82

Then I turn left at this junction from Mill Lane onto Harborough Road

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.259411,-0.900578&spn=0.004019,0.026157&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.259411,-0.900585&panoid=tjNQrIfOVwBIhLNuOfvUXg&cbp=11,36.78,,0,1.88

There is no speed limit sign at that junction, and no repeater signs all the way along Harborough Road. It goes through a shopping area. I think it should be a 30, which is the case with any built up area unless marked otherwise, but I've seen nothing to inform me of the change of speed limit from 40 down to 30, and for the first section of that road I'm on an urban dual carriageway that could quite conceivably be a 40, so I'm not quite sure. Then I get to a busy shopping area, haven't seen a 40 mph repeater sign for ages, so I think it must be a 30.

Then a mile and a half after turning on Harborough Road I get to here, and I get full size speed limit sign indicating of a new 40 mph limit, so I now know for sure I've just come out of a 30 limit.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=northampton&hl=en&ll=52.278504,-0.903969&spn=0.008035,0.052314&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.278498,-0.903967&panoid=sPsNEgAiITWnKgK3TeZE0w&cbp=11,358.49,,0,8.63

Should there have been a speed limit sign after I turned left, to inform people coming out of the 40 limit, that they are turning into a 30, or am I supposed to assume a change of limit, because I've changed road and drive at 30 or under until I get a sign telling me otherwise?

[Specialone]

I think when it goes from a major (40mph in this case) to a minor it has to show the reduced limit at the start of this area from both directions.

[Kilted Ginger]

There needs to be a sign. It may have been blown down or stolen. But for a speed change to happen there MUST be a sign.

[-Ralph-]

Hmm, interesting. It's quite often nowadays that I drive round an urban area, looking for any signage, thinking that either I'm being blind, or there has been nothing to tell me what the speed limit is. Next time I get a speeding ticket in an urban area, I'll be re-driving my route to check if the correct signage is in place.

For the first few hundred yards, I was doing 40 in a 30 limit, until I started questioning it, by which point I had dropped to 30 anyway as there was a fair few pedestrians about and I decided that was the safe speed regardless.

[Kilted Ginger]

still a 40 here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.25903,-0.904784&spn=0.008866,0.026157&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.258966,-0.904942&panoid=LxZCzmiN4rxjMkovvJTSJQ&cbp=12,43.01,,0,11.82
but heres your 30
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.259439,-0.900978&spn=0.000453,0.002411&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=52.259439,-0.900979&panoid=JPn6wfD2kZfopDFfS8YubQ&cbp=12,58.65,,1,9.63&z=19

Would you just like me to delete this thread now to hide your embarrassment. ;)

[-Ralph-]

still a 40 here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.25903,-0.904784&spn=0.008866,0.026157&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.258966,-0.904942&panoid=LxZCzmiN4rxjMkovvJTSJQ&cbp=12,43.01,,0,11.82
but heres your 30
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.25903,-0.904784&spn=0.008866,0.026157&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.258966,-0.904942&panoid=LxZCzmiN4rxjMkovvJTSJQ&cbp=12,43.01,,0,11.82

Would you just like me to delete this thread now to hide your embarrassment. ;)

No, if I've fecked up, I've fecked up. But you could edit your second link to show me where the 30 is though ;)

[Kilted Ginger]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northampton,+UK&hl=en&ll=52.259439,-0.900978&spn=0.000453,0.002411&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.570731,53.569336&oq=north&vpsrc=6&hnear=Northampton,+United+Kingdom&t=m&layer=c&cbll=52.259439,-0.900979&panoid=JPn6wfD2kZfopDFfS8YubQ&cbp=12,58.65,,1,9.63&z=19

Your picture of the xroads, go back about 50 yds on your route and turn around, its next to the **** pub. Possibly another situation of over signage, so you miss the important ones.

[-Ralph-]

Yep, fair do's. I will be checking next time I drive though there that the sign is still there, as there have been significant roadworks at that junction.

When I went though tonight the lights were in that same point in the sequence, and there was a truck sitting where that Mondeo Estate is, so I wouldn't have been able to see the one on the right. The one on the left I may have missed, because I was concentrating on what could have been approaching from the right that I was blind to because of the truck. I never take a green light as meaning it's clear to go, I still like a visual check to see that the junction is clear and nobody else has disobeyed the lights.

[-Ralph-]

Still, even if I did miss the sign, the fact I got past the sign then realised I should have seen one, means I'm doing better than 95% of the cagers out there (and probably better than a fair few motorcyclists too).

[DJFridge]

I tend to subscribe to the "30 unless I know it isn't" theory most of the time. Certainly in urban areas, but then I learned to drive in London where there is precious little that isn't 30 anyway.

[Sabarius]

Piece of advice I got when doing my test, if you're on a 40+ road and look down any side road then there will be a 30 sign at the entrance to that road.

No signs means you're on a 30 road.

[brennan]

Ill have a look when I pass through this morning. As you say the roadworks before chrimbo were fairly major, so a 30 sign may have not been replaced since.

Is it not a case of if there are no 40 repeater signs and regular interval lamposts, it should be taken as a 30?

[-Ralph-]

Ill have a look when I pass through this morning. As you say the roadworks before chrimbo were fairly major, so a 30 sign may have not been replaced since.

Is it not a case of if there are no 40 repeater signs and regular interval lamposts, it should be taken as a 30?

Thanks, I won't go through for a while.

Yes, if there are no repeater signs, in an built up area, it's a 30. But I'm pretty sure coming round a few of the periphery roads in Daventry which are 40 limits, there is a lack of repeater signs, and they can be up to 500m apart assuming they are in place, so having missed a 30 limit sign, or if it is missing, how long do you drive for, before you decide there are no repeaters therefore it must be a 30?

[Dipper]

I tend to subscribe to the "30 unless I know it isn't" theory most of the time. Certainly in urban areas, but then I learned to drive in London where there is precious little that isn't 30 anyway.
Not a bad rule of thumb, virtually anywhere there is streetlighting (apart from a few exceptions based on spacing) the limit is 30 unless signs say otherwise, there will also be regular repeater signs if the limit is higher.

[Danfibian]

Not a bad rule of thumb, virtually anywhere there is streetlighting (apart from a few exceptions based on spacing) the limit is 30 unless signs say otherwise, there will also be regular repeater signs if the limit is higher.

+1, any roadlighting at regual intervals that are in a urban area with no repeat signs usually means 30, this is taught by driving instrutors and IAM.

[plowsie]

Ralph, there are signs...

[plowsie]

On Mill Lane, sign is on the C0ck hotel (before you turn left) indicating 30mph, I go that way to work sometimes.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Mill+Ln&daddr=Harborough+Rd+N%2FA508&hl=en&ll=52.259469,-0.901122&spn=0.001052,0.00284&sll=52.281707,-0.896974&sspn=0.017722,0.052314&geocode=FZFmHQMd2Svy_w%3BFWe4HQMdBzXy_w&vpsrc=6&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=15&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.259469,-0.901122&panoid=tZSxLq8WxpWe4jFga5NCQA&cbp=12,68.82,,2,2.53

[larssonn]

A copper who stopped me when I was younger said that if there are lamposts 100yds or so apart then its likely to be a 30. In any event if you went from 40 down to 36 then you wouldn't get pulled surely?

[brennan]

That 30 sign is still at the junction beside the **** hotel. Drove past earlier today.

Can't say I've ever noticed it in the 22 years of living in Kingsthorpe mind!

[-Ralph-]

That 30 sign is still at the junction beside the **** hotel. Drove past earlier today.

Can't say I've ever noticed it in the 22 years of living in Kingsthorpe mind!

Thanks for checking anyway. In my own defence, and yours by the sounds of it, being tucked right into the wall of the hotel like that doesn't exactly make it stand out.

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

I was always told if there is no sign assume it's a 30.

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

That road has a 40 sign on it.

[-Ralph-]

I'm not the only one with poor observations skills clearly, its amazing the number of people who havent read this thread before replying

[brennan]

Thanks for checking anyway. In my own defence, and yours by the sounds of it, being tucked right into the wall of the hotel like that doesn't exactly make it stand out.

No it hardly stands out does it! No worries

[plowsie]

I think it may be down to the roadworks and new layout. If you come up from Vauxhall/Barratts pub towards Kingsthorpe front, there are one or two before the Mill lane Junction.