Fuel Tank Seal

[andrewsmith]

Righto

As some of you know, I had running problems a while back and this was found sitting in the carb bowls

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/378767_635449045628_276700376_4470658_1546025928_n .jpg

I've drained and stripped the tank to find comprehensive rust problems
Just started to fully prep the tank to seal it and I've come across a slight problem with keeping the fuel tap and fuel level sensor outlets sealed.

Anyone got any novel ideas as I'm open to them?
The fuel level looks too large for a cork annoyingly

[maviczap]

What about blue hylomar?

I've got to fit a tap & sensor to another tank I've got, so I'll be interested in the replies

[littleoldman2]

Andrew link to a site with an extensive discussion on tank sealing, http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ascotvt500enthusiasts/ ,

[dizzyblonde]

Anyone ever sealed a plastic tank from the inside? Is it actually possible?

[littleoldman2]

Anyone ever sealed a plastic tank from the inside? Is it actually possible?

Yes its possible and I had experience of it in the chemical industry many years ago. BUT you have to have the tank COMPLETELY clean (ie run the swabs through HPLC and get no integrable peaks) then re-coat. Its usually cheaper to replace. Other wise you run the risk of the seal breaking up and ending up in the fuel. Sorry if this seems like a -ve reply.
Edit The company I worked for stopped doing it in the early 80s and when possible used titanium patches.

[dizzyblonde]

Unfortunately, tanks are as rare as rocking horse poo......and at over £1200 for a new one...isn't going to happen!

[littleoldman2]

Unfortunately, tanks are as rare as rocking horse poo......and at over £1200 for a new one...isn't going to happen!

What tank are you thinking of, my gixer tank is metal and I think the SV is as well.

[andrewsmith]

DB
Try the ducati USA forums they may have tried it already.
At £1200 notes it maybe as cheap to have a steel tank fabricated

[andrewsmith]

What about blue hylomar?

I've got to fit a tap & sensor to another tank I've got, so I'll be interested in the replies

Mavi

That look like it may do the trick. I'm looking at try to get hold of a couple of painter plugs and trying that

[dizzyblonde]

What tank are you thinking of, my gixer tank is metal and I think the SV is as well.

Raptor 1000 tank, they are plastic, mine has had petrol deformation (so we believe) and paint damage from the inside forcing itself going out!

OEM parts, have 'soon to be discontinued' tanks at a hefty price brand new, second hand ones in good condition are hard to come by. I am looking to have mine resprayed, but, I'm not sure if it will just do the same thing, so am looking to replace first if I can.

DB
Try the ducati USA forums they may have tried it already.
At £1200 notes it maybe as cheap to have a steel tank fabricated

Thanks Andy, didn't think of that....gives me something to search for next week!
Not sure about the dynamics of fabrication, plus respray tbh, I'm looking for a quicker turn around tbh.

[andrewsmith]

Your tank is the plastic cover with a tank underneath?
or is the Acerbis style?

[dizzyblonde]

Huh....?

No, just like normal petrol tanks just plastic.....whats Acerbis?

[littleoldman2]

A few of the Ducati problems that have been aired on the VT500Ascot forum have been due to US petrol with a high ethanol content and has also involved the seals etc perishing and to be honest I've skipped the messages. Tanks not leaking is it?.

[andrewsmith]

Acerbis is the firm that used to make a lot of the plastic tanks like yours.

I thought yours was a cover with a tank underneath like on the Fireblade.
Fabricating a tank will be a time consuming job if its like a traditional steel one

[andrewsmith]

What about blue hylomar?

I've got to fit a tap & sensor to another tank I've got, so I'll be interested in the replies

The set-up of the gaskets means the Hylomar is not needed (new o-ring gasket on the level sender would be advisable)

Update time.

I've not been able to do the tank due to a ongoing shoulder issue :x which means I'm unable to move my right shoulder without a lot of discomfort.
Also through speaking to a local parts place who do a bit with tank sealing, Kreem are now doing an ethanol resistant kit (but places are trying to sell off the old one as the new product).

The tank is prepared to be done.

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/andrewsmith1708/12%20February%202012/10022012159.jpg

I've stripped everything off and drained the rusty brown petrol out (which explains the carb's screwing up). It is best to remove the tap first allow the fuel sitting there to drain out.

This is what was on the petc*ck when pulled out (The orange bolt is one of the two that held the tap in)

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/andrewsmith1708/12%20February%202012/12022012167.jpg

I should hopefully get away with just cleaning up the gasket as I looks serviceable.

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/andrewsmith1708/12%20February%202012/12022012164.jpg

The Fuel level sender is more or less the same process but using a pair of mole grips (nuts around 25mm and M20 thread in the tank) mine wasn't to difficult to get out, just take a while to unwind out the tank. There is also a o-ring that'll be stuck to the tank.

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/andrewsmith1708/12%20February%202012/12022012163.jpg
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a426/andrewsmith1708/12%20February%202012/12022012168.jpg

Its best to run though a couple of buckets of luke warm water to flush out the last of the petrol and a lot of loose rust
Another tip during the prep is to degrease the bottom of the tank with electrical contact cleaner, use a duct tape with a strong adhesive and test the tape with water (warm to hot if its the POR-15) and see if it passes the tape (it did on mine and a knocked off).

Depending on the shoulder I'll try and get it done next weekend

[suzukigt380paul]

Righto

As some of you know, I had running problems a while back and this was found sitting in the carb bowls

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/378767_635449045628_276700376_4470658_1546025928_n .jpg

I've drained and stripped the tank to find comprehensive rust problems
Just started to fully prep the tank to seal it and I've come across a slight problem with keeping the fuel tap and fuel level sensor outlets sealed.

Anyone got any novel ideas as I'm open to them?
The fuel level looks too large for a cork annoyingly
why do you want to seal the tank,i assume your tank is rusty and not leaking,if this is the case there are firms and products out there that will get rid of all the rust covert some off the rust back to shiney metal leaving the tank looking like new inside,and this way you will not end up with the tank liner/sealer problems in the future.
and as to other people with plastic or fiberglass tanks which are being ruined by the additives in petrol then your bast bet is to do what a friend did with his fiberglass triton tank and make a alloy tank to fit inside and use the original as a cover,if done well you cant even tell any thing has been done to the tank

[andrewsmith]

why do you want to seal the tank,i assume your tank is rusty and not leaking,if this is the case there are firms and products out there that will get rid of all the rust covert some off the rust back to shiney metal leaving the tank looking like new inside,and this way you will not end up with the tank liner/sealer problems in the future.
and as to other people with plastic or fiberglass tanks which are being ruined by the additives in petrol then your bast bet is to do what a friend did with his fiberglass triton tank and make a alloy tank to fit inside and use the original as a cover,if done well you cant even tell any thing has been done to the tank

Its rusty and I'm sure its sat with a half tank of fuel most of its life. There's spot rust on the base of the tank.
The chemicals I'm using are the ones that do that. The sealer is part of a kit in which you get the required measures of the chems

Paul thats a very good one to know as a restoration technique

[AndyBrad]

so just help me out a bit here. you can get somethig to swill aroudn your tank that wont act like a sealant but will stop it rusting?

whats that then?

[andrewsmith]

so just help me out a bit here. you can get somethig to swill aroudn your tank that wont act like a sealant but will stop it rusting?

whats that then?

You can de-rust the the tank, but it'll happen again gradually.
Marine Clean would do the bulk of the rust in the tank. I think sv4me has done a tank de-rust in the last year, best bet is to ask him

[littleoldman2]

Try this link.
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/petrol_tank_rust_removal.html
Note the reality is a lot more complex as to achieve even current flow you must have the anode and cathode equal distances apart. I'll leave someone else to do those calculations then work out how to get it into the tank.

[AndyBrad]

hmm. not too sure.

thing is when changing my fuel filter last time there was quite a bit of rusty fuel in the tank. i thought about sealing it but ive heared horrow stories about the sealant flaking off with time. something im not willing to risk. im also a bit worried about using acid so close to my paint! ho hum :(

[andrewsmith]

hmm. not too sure.

thing is when changing my fuel filter last time there was quite a bit of rusty fuel in the tank. i thought about sealing it but ive heared horrow stories about the sealant flaking off with time. something im not willing to risk. im also a bit worried about using acid so close to my paint! ho hum :(

Thats the Kreem and Ethanol in US petrol

[suzukigt380paul]

so just help me out a bit here. you can get somethig to swill aroudn your tank that wont act like a sealant but will stop it rusting?

whats that then?there is some waterbased stuff you put in your tank a mate in the vjmc had some dont think this one is on the market as it a send your tank in and the chap does it for you,but anycase you mix with water and leave in your tank for a few days i think and this stuff can be used more then once and is non corrosive doesnt effect paint and can be tipped down the drain when it has done its job,was told it is so safe you could drink it with out harm and when the tank is treated it will be bright and shiney like new

[yorkie_chris]

there is some waterbased stuff you put in your tank a mate in the vjmc had some dont think this one is on the market as it a send your tank in and the chap does it for you,but anycase you mix with water and leave in your tank for a few days i think and this stuff can be used more then once and is non corrosive doesnt effect paint and can be tipped down the drain when it has done its job,was told it is so safe you could drink it with out harm and when the tank is treated it will be bright and shiney like new

Sounds like dilute phosporic acid.

Probably healthier to drink that than coca cola.

[andrewsmith]

Sounds like dilute phosporic acid.

Probably healthier to drink that than coca cola.

and most cheap spirits

[andrewsmith]

update time.
Started the job today and the leak reappeared again :evil:

Changed tact and put the cap back on and used the petco*k as the fill point.
20 mins of swirriling and 10gal of flushing water and it looks like the marine cleans done squat.

Do you all think if its worth going on, or call quits and mark it down as experience?

[AndyBrad]

on the flip side today i took a look in my tank and no rust. hows that work then! im sure there was some last time i looked?

whats people thoughts on rust comming from forcourt fuel? im guessing thats filtered?

[andrewsmith]

on the flip side today i took a look in my tank and no rust. hows that work then! im sure there was some last time i looked?

whats people thoughts on rust comming from forcourt fuel? im guessing thats filtered?

It isnt really TBH but forecourts that have huge levels of turn over won't have big rust issues

[andrewsmith]

Update!

Eventually finished after 4 hours straight on Sunday.
Tanks curing as we speak, also protected the pitted rust with some excess sealer.
YC it should rescue your XJ900 tank if its developed its water consumption trick

Acid test as always with these things is once in use...

Fingers Crossed