View Full Version : Glasgow Rangers go into administration
More info here http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16169081
davepreston
13-02-12, 04:39 PM
oh ****
Luckypants
13-02-12, 04:56 PM
Yawn....
This has been coming for some time! Feel sorry for (some of) the fans, but its pretty deserved in my opinion regarding the way that club has been run over the last 10 years...
The Idle Biker
13-02-12, 05:19 PM
Wonder how far Celtic are away from following them?
Clubs rarely seem to actually go out of business but imagine what could happen if Rangers did and then Celtic followed?
Bet there's lots happy Catholics in Glasgow at the moment.
-Ralph-
13-02-12, 05:28 PM
I know nothing about football. What happens now? Somebody injects a load of cash or they just cease to exist? I know a few folk who will think their life has ended if that happens.
Dicky Ticker
13-02-12, 05:41 PM
Is that Tiger55 jumping up and down and clicking his heels I can hear:(
They get deducted 15 points I think if their application for administration gets approved.
I think they now have to wait for a buyer/investor.
Dave20046
13-02-12, 05:51 PM
Thought this was going to be somesort of scottish sportsbike shop
i'll slope back off..
carelesschucca
13-02-12, 06:01 PM
ALL HAIL Mr MURRAY!!! He created the monster then sold it to Mr White/Whyte...
I bet Ayr Utd directors are sitting there laughing right now...
-Ralph-
13-02-12, 06:13 PM
They get deducted 15 points I think if their application for administration gets approved.
I think they now have to wait for a buyer/investor.
Talk to me about real consequence's! Not about points on some bl00dy chart invented by people in fantasy land seeking their own amusement.
What happens if they don't find a buyer/investor? They cease to exist as a football club? Have any other clubs gone that way?
littleoldman2
13-02-12, 06:38 PM
Talk to me about real consequence's! Not about points on some bl00dy chart invented by people in fantasy land seeking their own amusement.
What happens if they don't find a buyer/investor? They cease to exist as a football club? Have any other clubs gone that way?
Don't think they will cease to exist, just look at Portsmouth they've almost made it an annual event.
littleoldman2
13-02-12, 07:04 PM
A comment from the sky news website http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16169081
As Portsmouth fan's we're now quite expert at going into administration. It's quite a simple process really, the good part is that you massively reduce your debt to a fraction of what it is currently, hey everyone's a winner. Well not quite.... The players and there agents will be paid in full, along with other football creditors while the club staff along with many small creditors will end up with a pittance. Ordinary people will lose their livelihoods some might even lose their homes.These will be the only ones to suffer from this course of action along with the fans. And what will happen to the financial management who are responsible for the mess that your club finds itself in, what will their punishment be? SFA. (and the S stands for sweet). Good luck to all the Rangers fans, you've done nothing wrong.
EssexDave
13-02-12, 07:07 PM
I believe it's 10 points docked.
the administrators will try to make a return for creditors by one of several means but can include selling assets( e.g. players/ibrox stadium or training ground).
They can also continue to run the business if it will make money - but this is normally difficult or it wouldn't be in this situation.
Redundancies would not be a surprise.
DJFridge
13-02-12, 07:15 PM
A comment from the sky news website http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16169081
As Portsmouth fan's we're now quite expert at going into administration. It's quite a simple process really, the good part is that you massively reduce your debt to a fraction of what it is currently, hey everyone's a winner. Well not quite.... The players and there agents will be paid in full, along with other football creditors while the club staff along with many small creditors will end up with a pittance. Ordinary people will lose their livelihoods some might even lose their homes.These will be the only ones to suffer from this course of action along with the fans. And what will happen to the financial management who are responsible for the mess that your club finds itself in, what will their punishment be? SFA. (and the S stands for sweet). Good luck to all the Rangers fans, you've done nothing wrong.
Working for a company who has supplied stuff to Leicester FC, who then went bust owing us several thousand (we got off light - Birse never really got paid for the stadium!) and have had customers driven to the wall by football clubs delaying payment (Rangers that time, interestingly enough), we no longer give football clubs credit. At all. Even Manchester United had to pay for their stuff up front.
Unfortunately, ridiculous salaries for players, managers and agents are proving to be unsustainable. Imagine that! I feel sorry for Rangers fans and Portsmouth fans today - sadly, scum currently run top flight football. I blame Sky......
If it's that bad of debt they will try & flogg some players to pay it off. Portsmouth did the same thing.
Someone will buy them out though some KFC investor, Look at Man City they used to finish average 10th most seasons, last year an Abu Dhabi owner comes in & drops 500million on players like it's fun. Bearin mind he turns over 500+ millon everyday oil prices rise.
carelesschucca
13-02-12, 07:29 PM
Talk to me about real consequence's! Not about points on some bl00dy chart invented by people in fantasy land seeking their own amusement.
What happens if they don't find a buyer/investor? They cease to exist as a football club? Have any other clubs gone that way?
Gretna FC gone!!!
Livingston dropped to 3rd division!!!
Airdrieonians gone (Clydebank became the new Airdrie UTD)
If I hear another "footballers get paid ridiculous wages" type view I might relieve myself of my brains. Like in any market, employees are paid what the business feels they are worth. The football industry is not a co-op or a union with a “collective bargaining agreement”.
IMHO, the real problem is the "corporatisation" (not a real word) of football clubs. The business model says "speculate to accumulate". Directors say "increase revenue" but conversely not "decrease costs". etc.
Portsmouth, Leeds, Plymouth and now Rangers have common elements in that they all changed ownership with the new purchasers leveraging the clubs (companies) through debt. The owner is effectively gambling on future success or TV money to repay the debt.
This is an incredibly risky model for a football club because of the inherent instability and unpredictability of this industry. The collapse of the ITV digital contract is an example of this volatility but also the fact that revenue is success based (and not adequately accounted for in the clubs financial planning).
The fans suffer most because they have little say in the running of the club but the players also lose out because there is little job security or guarantee of wages. As for footballers astronomical wages, there is no doubt that the top 15% are incredibly rich but considering the short careers of footballer, their maximum earnings accounts for 20+ years beyond their playing careers.
There are many examples of players who don't adequately plan for this - Gascoigne, Hendry (Lee) and currently the likes of Michael Chopra (admittedly he has a gambling problem).
IMO, the problems start with the FA’s and the rules, followed closely by the clubs (Directors/Owners), then agents and fans (unrealistic expectations?) before the players. Football players are not very loyal these days, but its unfair to consider them as Mercenaries for hire.
"players also lose out because there is little job security or guarantee of wages"
Isnt that the same for everyone? I dont buy the fact they have to raise their wages to cover it
"considering the short careers of footballer, their maximum earnings accounts for 20+ years beyond their playing careers"
They should move with the job market and retrain like everyone else. What makes them think they should have a job for life? Theres nothing special about kicking a ball around and being paid a lot of money. They are just entertainers. I dont think its only footballers that dont adequately plan for their future.
Mr murdoch isnt on my christmas card list :)
Kilted Ginger
13-02-12, 08:22 PM
They owe tax man 49million. Basically murray sold his 49million debt to whyte for £1, why you would buy a debt is beyond my understanding of economics.
They have filed notice that they may enter administration, they now have 10 days to realise assets, get new investors or come to some agreement with their debtors. If not then they enter administration. The administrators will attempt to pay debtors utilising clubs assets.
in my limited understanding, portsmouth dont own their stadium and have no real assets.
Ibrox have a multi million pound traiing facility and Ibrox stadium that i'm sure would be worth a bit for housing.
goz1960
13-02-12, 08:25 PM
Who are Glasgow Rangers do they sell motorbikes never heard of them?:D:D
EssexDave
13-02-12, 08:54 PM
KG - I know some of their buildings have listed building status and so are protected against the land being used as development - not entirely sure how much it is but with the housing market as is, and with this potential spanner in the works I'm not sure how much it is worth as a property investment.
With reference to the person who said players are paid a wage according to their demand within the business they are in - fine, but it is HMRC who are losing out - e.g. the taxpayer.
timwilky
13-02-12, 09:13 PM
Now that did surprise me. I honestly thought rangers would be a solid well run and financially viable club.
Thank god the plans of a couple of years ago to permit the 2 Glasgow clubs to enter the premiership came to nought.
DJFridge
13-02-12, 09:31 PM
I'm afraid, Runako, that you're going to have to cope with the fact that, to most people, the average wage of a Premiership player IS ridiculous. I'm not blaming the players for taking what they can - as you say, they have relatively short playing careers in which to set themselves up for life - their salaries are a symptom of the bigger problem. "corporatisation" is as good a word for it as any but there is no getting away from it; what people see week to week is a bunch of badly behaved, thick as pigsh1t, arrogant morons earning more money in a month than they will earn in their entire lifetime. The fact that club finances have been allowed to head off in to the same fantasy land as banking, where it doesn't matter how much you owe because you can always borrow more against the promise of future money, doesn't figure in most people's thinking. The millions a year to kick a bag of air around does.
dizzyblonde
13-02-12, 10:31 PM
Who are Glasgow Rangers do they sell motorbikes never heard of them?:D:D
Me too, but the man on the couch has informed me all about the three teams of Glasgow......and then I fell asleep momentarily and dribbled out the side of my mouth, it really was that boring :rolleyes:
timwilky
13-02-12, 11:00 PM
OK to many on this forum football means nought. I have been a season ticket holder for the club I first watched in 1966 for the past 20 years. I love the game. I love my club. even my daughter comes home from Leeds for every home game. she too has nailed her colours to the mast.
My cousin was an unsuccessful pro. I never got beyond the school team. I have been privileged enough to have watched one kid progress from primary school team through to his first premiership game and eventually wearing a full England shirt.
I am proud to be a football fan. OK it is a bag of wind. But it is also a bag full of passion.
True fans can get on with each other despite their allegiances. But sometimes it does hurt to know there is a scouser in my boozer.
They owe tax man 49million. Basically murray sold his 49million debt to whyte for £1, why you would buy a debt is beyond my understanding of economics.
The most common reason to buy an ongoing business with debt is to leverage it. The owner/major shareholder will either put their own capital into the business (e.g Abramovich) or pay of some of the debt through debentures/loans (e.g. Sam Hammam - Cardiff City). The business must be viable or have the potential to grow (e.g. Man United) so the interest on any shareholder debts will be paid back. A new owner will also seek to cut costs so they will get a better return on their investment.
Some owners don't use their own money (i.e. Glazers) but de-list or re-purchase all the shares in the company (Cheslea). If revenue improves significantly then the club becomes a more valuable commidity and its re-sale value (i.e.e value of its shares) rises, again giving the owner a much better return on investment if the club is later sold.
This is why there are constant rumours about Man United being primed for sale despite the massive debt. The club has effectively grown significantly (revenue) since the Glazers took over. (Btw, Murray would have profited from selling his share to Whyte and that probably includes some Directors Loans to the club).
OK to many on this forum football means nought. I have been a season ticket holder for the club I first watched in 1966 for the past 20 years. I love the game. I love my club. even my daughter comes home from Leeds for every home game. she too has nailed her colours to the mast.
My cousin was an unsuccessful pro. I never got beyond the school team. I have been privileged enough to have watched one kid progress from primary school team through to his first premiership game and eventually wearing a full England shirt.
I am proud to be a football fan. OK it is a bag of wind. But it is also a bag full of passion.
True fans can get on with each other despite their allegiances. But sometimes it does hurt to know there is a scouser in my boozer.
Totally agree with you Tim. I've been a Boro supporter since about the same time, and like you a season ticket holder for years. Some of the best times I've had has been in the pub, pre-match, with the opposition fans - but not Leeds fans.
That said, any club that doesn't pay its tax bill has, in effect, been subsidised by the man in the street. I'd be quite happy to see them go to the wall if only in the vain hope that others would get their act together when it comes to paying their bills on time.
-Ralph-
15-02-12, 12:11 AM
OK to many on this forum football means nought. I have been a season ticket holder for the club I first watched in 1966 for the past 20 years. I love the game. I love my club. even my daughter comes home from Leeds for every home game. she too has nailed her colours to the mast.
My cousin was an unsuccessful pro. I never got beyond the school team. I have been privileged enough to have watched one kid progress from primary school team through to his first premiership game and eventually wearing a full England shirt.
I am proud to be a football fan. OK it is a bag of wind. But it is also a bag full of passion.
True fans can get on with each other despite their allegiances. But sometimes it does hurt to know there is a scouser in my boozer.
I'm not into football myself, but this is what was behind my question. What happens if the club didn't find a buyer?
I know men who would be just about reduced to tears if Rangers (or in the case of other similar men, Celtic) were no longer to exist. Which begs the question how can an institution that lives in the hearts and minds of millions of fans cease to exist for financial reasons? You'd think that someone, somehow will always find a way to bring it back to life. So long as there are Rangers fans, and men who want to play football, there will always be a club, even if it's nothing more than a Sunday league, with unpaid players and no money. Rangers football club does not exist because it's registered as a business on a piece of paper at companies house.
A very naive and idealistic view from me there I'm sure, and being a football fan these days is as much about understanding the business and the politics as it is watching the game (which I don't), but it just seems a shame that business has taken control of sport, to the extent that a team can cease to exist, whilst there are still fans prepared to stand in the rain and cheer, and players prepared to play.
What would all the Rangers fans do? Switch to supporting Hearts instead? Stop watching football? It seems ludicrous. You can take the boy out of Glasgow, but you can't take Rangers or Celtic out of the boy.
Bluefish
15-02-12, 01:31 AM
As above, there are only two teams in Scotland, Rangers and eurgghhh, eckin Celtic, who must be laughing all the way to the bank.
I'm not into football myself, but this is what was behind my question. What happens if the club didn't find a buyer?
I know men who would be just about reduced to tears if Rangers (or in the case of other similar men, Celtic) were no longer to exist. Which begs the question how can an institution that lives in the hearts and minds of millions of fans cease to exist for financial reasons? You'd think that someone, somehow will always find a way to bring it back to life. So long as there are Rangers fans, and men who want to play football, there will always be a club, even if it's nothing more than a Sunday league, with unpaid players and no money. Rangers football club does not exist because it's registered as a business on a piece of paper at companies house.
A very naive and idealistic view from me there I'm sure, and being a football fan these days is as much about understanding the business and the politics as it is watching the game (which I don't), but it just seems a shame that business has taken control of sport, to the extent that a team can cease to exist, whilst there are still fans prepared to stand in the rain and cheer, and players prepared to play.
What would all the Rangers fans do? Switch to supporting Hearts instead? Stop watching football? It seems ludicrous. You can take the boy out of Glasgow, but you can't take Rangers or Celtic out of the boy.
I'm sure you're right. If the current business folds then it would surely only be a matter of time before Rangers Football Club (2012) Ltd started up. Just how successful that might be could depend on who owns the big assets, but there's a huge base of supporters there.
As above, there are only two teams in Scotland, Rangers and eurgghhh, eckin Celtic, who must be laughing all the way to the bank.
No doubt the Celtic support are enjoying the suffering at the other side of the city, but they're daft if they want to see Rangers disappear. If you're looking at the marketing side of that business, the most interesting thing about Celtic is Rangers - and vice versa.
With no Rangers in the SPL Celtic would suffer financially. Whether they like it or not they need each other.
DJFridge
15-02-12, 09:52 PM
With no Rangers in the SPL Celtic would suffer financially. Whether they like it or not they need each other.
Apparently the whole SPL needs Rangers. The TV contract for next 5 years has a clause that stipulates the inclusion of both Celtic and Rangers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17047957
carelesschucca
16-02-12, 05:54 PM
Breaking News - Rangers have already taken the first group of people off their payroll. Two refs and a linesman have been told their services are no longer required!!!
davepreston
16-02-12, 07:12 PM
breaking news rangers off the hook because celtic fan was investagating there tax issue and mistakingly put the . in the wrong place
the fans reply about his mistake was simply "well can you see celtic winning it any other way"
andrewsmith
16-02-12, 08:51 PM
Breaking News
Clyde have come in with a shock offer of £55 for the starting 11 after Saturday. A statement from club says: "Well its £55 off the tax bill"
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