The Falklands

[ravingdavis]

So these little Islands have been hitting the news a lot recently, what is the opinion of the Org, should Argentina be given rule of these Islands?

My personal opinion being that they should remain a British overseas territory so long as the inhabitants of the islands wish for that to remain the case. I find all the posturing of the Argentinians rather childish and unnecessary. How can they find it right to oppress their government and laws on the islanders when they so clearly do not want this to happen? Should opinion of the islanders change and they wish to become Argentinean then by all means, allow the Falklands to become Argentinian.

[MisterTommyH]

As you say, it should be up to the residents not either Britain or Argentina.

If they wish to remain as 'British' we should protect them as far as they want to be protected.... who knows what would happen if the Argentinians were allowed to just take over... Might start persecuting the people who had lived there all their lives.

Also there is the memory of what happened 30 years ago... It would feel a bit of a betrayal to those who fought and were injured / killed in that war if we just handed it over now.

[Specialone]

My view is the argies can f**k off.
Just cos it lies closer to their shores than it does ours means nothing, no different to guernsey and jersey being close to the French coast.

It has our countrymen settled on there so they can do one.


When this first reappeared recently, I seen their tv crews interviewing people on the streets and the young uns didn't give a ****, now the media frenzy has whipped up, they have all suddenly jumped on the bandwagon and wanna fight now.

[Fallout]

I think we should leave it to the Argies. Take all our people home and let them have it.

.... not before preparing an underground nuclear bomb test first though, and rigging it to blow in say, 1 years time? :smt068

[SoulKiss]

I think we should leave it to the Argies. Take all our people home and let them have it.

.... not before preparing an underground nuclear bomb test first though, and rigging it to blow in say, 1 years time? :smt068

Hmmm, offer the people some land up the West Coast of Scotland, well its similarly remote and desolate, then Sell the Falklands to the Argies to reduce some of the National Debt?

[davepreston]

they tried they got there **** handed to them and now and since that day they have been moaning
my simple reply
feck off its ours

[hardhat_harry]

Funny they never bothered until someone found oil there in the eighties and now they have figured out how to drill it they are pressing their claim again

[stewie]

Yeah give the Fakllands back and we lost 255 british servicemen and 3 falkland islanders for nothing, never mind the 649 argentinians who died so that galtieri could throw his weight around.The falklands are british as long as the islanders want to stay that way, the fact is neither we nor the agentininans have the military clout to do much about it anyway, its a lot of sabre rattling cos its coming up to the 30th anniversary of the war and the fact that prince William is down there, it'll settle down soon enough I reckon.

[Specialone]

They have a real problem with the British for some reason, you'd think they would've learnt their lesson from last time.

It's a bit similar to the scots and the welsh hating the English I guess ;) never understood it myself.

[stewie]

It's a bit similar to the scots and the welsh hating the English I guess :wink: never understood it myself.

I think theyre just jealous......I'll get me coat ;)

[TamSV]

The Argentinians ruled out any possibility of taking over the islands when they invaded in 1982 IMO.

Their historical claims are probably as good as the British but there's no moving on from those kind of arguments and no-one can ever "win".

All that stuff has to be left in the past and the only principle that matters now is that the Islanders have the right to determine their own future. With such an aggressive neighbour they're unlikely to choose anything other than continuation as an Overseas Territory for the forseeable future.

It's not up to Britain to "give" the islands to anyone but it does make sense that they become more independent.

[Specialone]

It's a bit similar to the scots and the welsh hating the English I guess :wink: never understood it myself.

I think theyre just jealous......I'll get me coat ;)





You're right but I don't get why, wtf have we got to be jealous of, we aint got nothing :(

[stewie]

Actually I was in Germany when the invasion happened and one the guys came round my room and said 'the argentiinans have invaded the falklands' and I remember thinking what are they doing in Scotland ? #-o

[stewie]

You're right but I don't get why, wtf have we got to be jealous of, we aint got nothing :(

we got free uni education havent we ? oh........
we got free presciptions too...oh yeah
can't think tbh, what have we got ? ;)

[Wideboy]

militarize the islands more and make the argies run to the UN crying again. The argument is ridiculous, its no different to sending a destroyer to jersey. They're just still bitter from getting spanked the last time.

It will come to nothing, the argie president is just trying to rake in cheap votes by playing on the gullible argie population's heart strings..... Who are to stupid to see what is happening.

Isn't Argentina's government still massively corrupt anyway?

[MisterTommyH]

We could also do without idiots like Sean Penn wading in and talking sh1te.

He's a 'UN ambassador at large to Haiti' so how the hell does that give him any qualification to comment on an island that's thousands of miles away from the island he's a fake ambassador to.......

[Wideboy]

We could also do without idiots like Sean Penn wading in and talking sh1te.

He's a 'UN ambassador at large to Haiti' so how the hell does that give him any qualification to comment on an island that's thousands of miles away from the island he's a fake ambassador to.......

Eeugh I read that today also, that **** needs a slap

[ravingdavis]

Well I thought people would be a lot less caring about the situation. Good to see.

That Sean Penn is a idiot to get involved. The guy is an actor and is in way qualified to comment in such a public fashion. He supposedly comes from a country that values the democratic process yet completely goes against it by arguing that we should ignore popular demand in the Falklands and force them to be ruled by a government they have no wish to be part of.

Out of interest, what do you think would happen if the Falklands decide they want to be an independent country, do you think Argentina would let that stand?

[Fallout]

Hmmm, offer the people some land up the West Coast of Scotland, well its similarly remote and desolate, then Sell the Falklands to the Argies to reduce some of the National Debt?

The climate is similar too, I think. But whether they could ever get use to the water going the other way round the plug hole, I don't know. Perhaps that's asking too much. :D

[stewie]

If the Falklands went independent Argentina would be in there in a flash, no question, thing is who would bail them out ? the UN ? doubt it, theyre too slow and unwieldly to do much good, the yanks ? no chance, if it doesnt benefit them they won't help, they didnt do too much to help us in 82 at least not overtly anyway, it would probably be left up to us and you can imagine a compromise would be met because we havent even got a hope of going down there and fighting ot out like we did last time, too committed to other things at present, if the Argetinians wanted to invade nows the best time to do it imo, we're still comitted to Afghan, are drawing down regts in Germany, closing down bases in the UK, dont have a credible naval carrier force, don't have nimrods, harriers or the troops, on top of that morale is at an all time low with the threat of redundancy hanging overhead and uncertain futures for all the services, basically we're ****ed.

[Specialone]

Don't you believe it dude, we might be stretched but could still deal with any threats there I'm certain.

[stewie]

Don't you believe it dude, we might be stretched but could still deal with any threats there I'm certain.
Do you really think so ?

[ravingdavis]

Do you really think so ?

I do think we can deal with it. The Falklands are more fortified now than they were the first time the Argies tried to take over. We have a much bigger technological advantage now than we did even back in the 80s. We still have one of the small carriers on hot standby but not deployed do we not? Not to mention our destroyers are leagues above what they were.

[MisterTommyH]

I'd happily pay another few percentages in tax if we had to go over there and sort it out.

Not saying I want to pay more. But if it made the difference between protecting it or not....

More of a problem would be the long range capability that we no longer have. The way the Vulcans hopped over from Ascension completely demorilised the Argies who thought we'd have no air cover - especially so soon. Can't see us doing that now.

[TamSV]

Don't you believe it dude, we might be stretched but could still deal with any threats there I'm certain.

We'd be massively outgunned, even if we could ditch every other commitment and chucked everything at it.

The Navy's massively reduced in capacity. Only one aircraft carrier - and I think we had to borrow planes from the Americans to fly off it at one point? And where's the British Merchant Fleet now? It doesn't exist anymore.

I don't doubt the commitment of the armed forces, but getting them there would be very difficult now.

The original conflict was a closer run thing than we tend to remember. It was no dead cert then and that was the height of the Cold War - the "good old days" in terms of funding for the forces. I think Britain might struggle if there was a repeat.

[TamSV]

I'd happily pay another few percentages in tax if we had to go over there and sort it out.

Not saying I want to pay more. But if it made the difference between protecting it or not....

More of a problem would be the long range capability that we no longer have. The way the Vulcans hopped over from Ascension completely demorilised the Argies who thought we'd have no air cover - especially so soon. Can't see us doing that now.

It's not about money though - you can't recreate that capability overnight. If the Argentinians invade tomorrow, our task force might be ready to go sometime in 2020.

[stewie]

When i left the Air Force in 86' there were 110,000 of us, now its down to 39,000 and thats not including the 5,000 job cuts the SSDR created, plus the air fleet is smaller now but older, we're still VC10's that were old when I left in 86' the tristars are getting on a bit now too, they were ex BA or PAN AM and werent even new when we got em, the new Voyager looks good but wont be in service till 2014, we've no carrier fleet to fly off the carriers for another 10 yrs and thats if it all goes to schedule, we're in a mess.

[The Idle Biker]

We must defend the Falklands, no question. I asked myself, would I fight and die to defend it though?

[ravingdavis]

We must defend the Falklands, no question. I asked myself, would I fight and die to defend it though?

This is the joy of having a volunteer military though. We have an armed force that can be sent to defend the Falklands at the request of the government else they should not have joined up.

If you had of signed on then you inherently agree to fight and die to defend that which the government deems necessary.

[metalangel]

Falklands, the music video:

bdxvedxPhNU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxvedxPhNU

[Bluefish]

Don't you believe it dude, we might be stretched but could still deal with any threats there I'm certain.
Too right, the troops would be gagging to go over their and kick **** again :D

[yorkie_chris]

This is the joy of having a volunteer military though. We have an armed force that can be sent to defend the Falklands at the request of the government else they should not have joined up.

If you had of signed on then you inherently agree to fight and die to defend that which the government deems necessary.

It would be a deserving cause, British people under attack by a foreign aggressor.

[Specialone]

Certainly a more worthy cause than afghan IMO.

[Dave20046]

Erm, didn't read the question but clicked yes in agreeance with the OP - doh

[yorkie_chris]

Erm, didn't read the question but clicked yes in agreeance with the OP - doh

He's an Argie sympathiser ... shoot him!!

[Specialone]

Dave, you collaborator !!

[Dave20046]

Nothing to see here , go get the penguin molesterer!

[Dave20046]

ffs it's a private poll? I needn't have said anything.

[Specialone]

Lol :)

[Wideboy]

we would have found you eventually you fruit, stone him i say!

[ravingdavis]

Dave, you should be put against a wall and shot in the face for treason.

[andrewsmith]

Before or after being turned down and bare a***d?

It boils down to Oil, its been discovered (a ****load more than the Argies thought) and were not far from pumping it out

[Dave20046]

Dave, you should be put against a wall and shot in the face
Do you have a comment relating to my mistake with the poll?

[Amadeus]

we would have found you eventually you fruit, stone him i say!

And a packet of gravel for the kids

[andrewsmith]

And a packet of gravel for the kids

http://youtu.be/hsVAYFSEBrA

hsVAYFSEBrA

[-Ralph-]

You're right but I don't get why, wtf have we got to be jealous of, we aint got nothing :(

Better weather, more money = higher quality of life.

I know where I'd rather live nowadays!

(though the South of France would be one better again)

Oh yeah, and f**k the Argies, they are ours! If I lived in the Falklands I'd want the government to protect me.

[maviczap]

dont have a credible naval carrier force, don't have nimrods, harriers or the troops, on top of that morale is at an all time low with the threat of redundancy hanging overhead and uncertain futures for all the services, basically we're ****ed.

Nor do we have the merchant fleet to help out the on the logistics side of things

All gone

[Specialone]

Better weather, more money = higher quality of life.

I know where I'd rather live nowadays!

(though the South of France would be one better again)

Oh yeah, and f**k the Argies, they are ours! If I lived in the Falklands I'd want the government to protect me.

Well if you promise to behave and stay out of impassable fords, we'll let you stay ;)

[-Ralph-]

Well if you promise to behave and stay out of impassable fords

No chance! I'm not going to behave for anyone, or to live anywhere! And I have a score to settle with that ford this summer when the water's a bit warmer.

[andrewsmith]

No chance! I'm not going to behave for anyone, or to live anywhere! And I have a score to settle with that ford this summer when the water's a bit warmer.

and shallower?

[-Ralph-]

and shallower?

Not necessarily, next time I'll walk through first to see where the deep/shallow bits are. The bike can cope with some pretty deep water without swamping the airbox, it was the sudden drop, the surprise of it, and the fact I came to a stop with my front wheel in the deep bit, by back wheel on the high bit and my legs dangling into the water above the deep bit so I couldn't reach the river bed, that caused me to topple over.

Check out this river crossing, don't forget that front wheel is a 21 inch rim, with 3 inches of tyre on it, so water covering the front wheel is 27 inches deep. Where I dropped my bike it was nearly headlight deep, but having walked it first I wouldn't ride that bit again.

TcEfhzAkhIU

for Specialone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcEfhzAkhIU&feature=g-all-u&context=G2c8505cFAAAAAAAABAA

[-Ralph-]

Anyway, MAJOR derail, sorry Dave.

The Falklands.....

[Lozzo]

The "Stills"** want to be British, they have oil, the Argies now want the islands to be theirs. Last time Britain was able to properly descend upon the islands and reclaim them as British... this time I'm not so sure we have either the manpower or resources to do the same.

** Those in the know will understand

[DJFridge]

I'm not sure about the logistics of how it can be enforced should the Argentinians get more actively stroppy about them (as opposed to winging and creating like a spoilt child which seems to be the current tactic) but no, the Falklands should not be given to Argentina. Along with many other random bits of the world, the islands that became The Falklands were uninteresting, uninhabited rocks when the British laid claim to them. It isn't a case of "should we give them back" because they weren't Argentinian to begin with. As others have said, it would be like the French asking for the Channel Islands back.

If the Falklands had no natural resources except penguins, the Argentinians wouldn't give a stuff. A bit like we wouldn't have done if Kuwait's only natural resource had been sand.

[blue curvy jester]

The whole Argie airforce has about 60 planes most of which are designs from the 1960's +1970's

(the fighting hawks the newest 30ish are an upgrade delivered in 1998 after they were retired by the us)

the rapier capability and the new destroyer parked off argie coast ( the worlds best air defence platform 'haegedly) should stop any air attack

and the 140 eurofighters that the RAF have should do the trick ( i know only 60 are front line operationly and some are on deployment)

[LankyIanB]

Re: Sean Penn - excellent article from the Telegraph (for a change) http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100137521/sean-penn-should-return-his-malibu-estate-to-the-mexicans/

And yes it's all about oil, quite a bit of it by sounds....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9076530/Falklands-oilfields-could-yield-176bn-tax-windfall.html

[daveyrach]

Britain ruled the Falklands before Argentina existed so what right does Argentina have over them exactly?

[Spiderman]

Britain ruled the Falklands before Argentina existed so what right does Argentina have over them exactly?

Thats pretty lame reasoning isnt it? The british empire was huge but slowly shrank away to almost nothing - what right did britain have over those places?

So what right does britain have over the flaklands now?

[Specialone]

Thats pretty lame reasoning isnt it? The british empire was huge but slowly shrank away to almost nothing - what right did britain have over those places?

So what right does britain have over the flaklands now?

In fairness Zig, what right have the argies got either? Just cos it geographically closer?

Its no different to any settlers in any new discovered land in history, the small matter of natives already living there didnt seem to stop anybody settling and calling that place theirs.

Slight derail, why dont you play DM any more on MW3? i dont get that game you play ;)

[Spiderman]

In fairness Zig, what right have the argies got either? Just cos it geographically closer?

Its no different to any settlers in any new discovered land in history, the small matter of natives already living there didnt seem to stop anybody settling and calling that place theirs.

Slight derail, why dont you play DM any more on MW3? i dont get that game you play ;)

I dont disagree with you there either mate, just wondering how the poster above thought his argument was in any way valid. but i suppose only becuase its closer it should be theirs. How much does it cost to send a warship all the way there from here i wonder? And just how many brits are there that need protection? Its all about the oil as with all modern wars i guess.
Could you imagine if the Argentinians laid claim to Jersey for example? Its wierd to me to own something so close to another country yet so far away from you own.

Hehe, i do play other games on MW3 dude, demolition is where i once got 32 kills, my highest ever lol and i kind of stick with it in the hope that i'll get that good again. One day. Whats wrong with me, i play ne game and get 32 kills, next game i get 7, wtf am i doing wrong???????
Some fella playing the other night had 112 kills!!!! Now how the fek do you get that and no be cheating?

[Bluefish]

What right does any body have over a country, nobody owns them, they were here befor any of us, and still will be when we are gone, who will own them then?

[yorkie_chris]

Thats pretty lame reasoning isnt it? The british empire was huge but slowly shrank away to almost nothing - what right did britain have over those places?

So what right does britain have over the flaklands now?

The islands were deserted, there's no sob story about sharpened mango wielding natives being cut down with the fire of massed rifles.

The right we have over them is historical, what makes it right to hang on to them is the population which is British by blood and by culture, which makes them worth defending.
Which is to say, a sh*tsight more of a right to them than any uppity Johnny foreigner.


As for the oil, that's worth a scrap over too. Like it or lump it our current way of life is dependant on it, as guilty as some bloody muppets feel about our Imperial past, that is not some woolly left wing reason to allow some upstart nation to commit daylight robbery against us.

[mattSV]

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/402151_10151282983915463_895840462_23168245_167759 1702_n.jpg

[MisterTommyH]

Its wierd to me to own something so close to another country yet so far away from you own.



Except they're not 'so close' to another. They're over 250 miles out - in international waters (well actually British waters as that's what the islanders want to be).

The islands were deserted, there's no sob story about sharpened mango wielding natives being cut down with the fire of massed rifles.



Unfortunately it's not that simple:

The Dutch discovered them, the British got Lost there and named them. The french settled on the East, the British (unaware of the French) settled on the west. The Spanish took over the French settlement, attacked the British and chucked them out. We nearly went to war, but a treaty was signed and the British allowed to return.

The war in America forced the British to leave, but left a plaque stating our claim. The Spanish also left, but also left their own plaque stating their claim. All other settlers left and went to mainland South America.

A privateer was driven there by a storm and raised the flag of the then South American nation. A man of German descent (who had emigrated to said South American nation) established a colony on the islands with permission from both Argentina and Britain.

Everyone fell out over hunting rights and the settlers were arrested by a US ship, but never charged. They were released and the settlement was declared Free from all Government. The settlement was (supposedly) dismantled.

Argentina tried to establish a prison colony, but the captain was killed. Soon the British turned up and made them leave. The 'destroyed' settlement was still inhabited.

These settlers encouraged the British to interact and flew a British flag. The settlement leaders were murdered and the islands were ruled as a naval based until the start of the modern settlement was established.

There you go. A short history of the Falklands. It's far from as simple as it was an empty rock, but as long as the inhabitants consider themselves British I'll support their protection. Maybe I'd feel differently if it was a Dutch, French or Spanish claim (maybe even German), but the way I see it the Argentinean claim is the weakest.

[DJFridge]

.....but the way I see it the Argentinean claim is the weakest.

A bit like their navy hopefully!

[Biker Biggles]

Thats pretty lame reasoning isnt it? The british empire was huge but slowly shrank away to almost nothing - what right did britain have over those places?

So what right does britain have over the flaklands now?

The only valid test is what the inhabitants want.Just as the former British Empire faded away because the various parts of it wanted independance,and got it,so the inhabitants of Los Malvinas want to remain as they are,and not be Argentinian.There would no doubt be a similar debate about Jersey if they wanted to be French,but if the majority voted to stay British,thats what would happen.It no longer really matters who got there first or exactly what happened in 1865,just what the people want now.

[Spiderman]

Except they're not 'so close' to another. They're over 250 miles out - in international waters (well actually British waters as that's what the islanders want to be).



Unfortunately it's not that simple:

The Dutch discovered them, the British got Lost there and named them. The french settled on the East, the British (unaware of the French) settled on the west. The Spanish took over the French settlement, attacked the British and chucked them out. We nearly went to war, but a treaty was signed and the British allowed to return.

The war in America forced the British to leave, but left a plaque stating our claim. The Spanish also left, but also left their own plaque stating their claim. All other settlers left and went to mainland South America.

A privateer was driven there by a storm and raised the flag of the then South American nation. A man of German descent (who had emigrated to said South American nation) established a colony on the islands with permission from both Argentina and Britain.

Everyone fell out over hunting rights and the settlers were arrested by a US ship, but never charged. They were released and the settlement was declared Free from all Government. The settlement was (supposedly) dismantled.

Argentina tried to establish a prison colony, but the captain was killed. Soon the British turned up and made them leave. The 'destroyed' settlement was still inhabited.

These settlers encouraged the British to interact and flew a British flag. The settlement leaders were murdered and the islands were ruled as a naval based until the start of the modern settlement was established.

There you go. A short history of the Falklands. It's far from as simple as it was an empty rock, but as long as the inhabitants consider themselves British I'll support their protection. Maybe I'd feel differently if it was a Dutch, French or Spanish claim (maybe even German), but the way I see it the Argentinean claim is the weakest.


thank you for posting that, its always nice to know the real history as opposed to the xenophobic "we're british so its ours" version.

[hardhat_harry]

Can anyone point me to where I can download a bigger version of this?

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/402151_10151282983915463_895840462_23168245_167759 1702_n.jpg