Biker caught doing 156mph

[NTECUK]

Biker caught doing 156mph on A1



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-17201667

What do you think of his defense strategy
Clarke said in his defence at Peterborough Crown Court he was in total control of his motorcycle at all times and that it was built for speed.
The police rider followed Clarke for eight minutes on the north-bound A1M between Alconbury and Sawtry at the very high speeds on 12 May 2011.
Was the police man just as bad?

[busasean]

I do agree that excess speed on its own does not consitute dangerous driving. £2000 is taking the **** - still, its all revenue......

[Dave20046]

His defence I don't find unreasonable...until I read the bit about undertaking and not spotting the police bike. £2ks excessive but I'm sure others have been prisoned for similar speeds.

[Bibio]

the rider is a **** full stop. yes i have blatted up to silly speed but never on a busy motorway. in control he may have been but were the other road users aware of his presence. its titz like him the biking community don't need. there is a place and a time and its called a race track.

[The Idle Biker]

I'd say, take ya punishment fella. Better than doing time. Claiming you were in control on a public road at 156mph is stretching the point, that speed isn't in itself dangerous. He's probably not complaining, just thinking himself lucky at the moment.

How fast do Cop BMW's go then? Just asking for research purposes.

[Dave20046]

How fast do Cop BMW's go then? Just asking for research purposes.

You won't lose 'em in a straight line

[Tim in Belgium]

You won't lose 'em in a straight line

Let's race!

[tom-k6]

not being funny, but 8minutes he was followed for? why wasnt he stopped sooner? i doubt he was doing 70mph, blatted up to 156mph and was then stopped, the police shouldve stopped him sooner.

[Specialone]

That speed on it's own might not be dangerous but reaction times for other road users is virtually nil, they might look in their mirror and see it's clear and next second there's a bike appeared, it's just crazy IMO.

On a quiet dual carriageway then maybe for a short blast it might be 'safe' but amongst other road users it isn't.

[Red Herring]

At those speeds it wouldn't have been a marked bike following him so the delay in stopping him would have been down to them getting an appropriate vehicle to do so.

To answer the OP's original question, is the police rider just as bad as they were also riding at those speeds? I guess it would depend on how they were riding. Did the police rider also pass traffic to the nearside or appear unaware of what else was around them?
The courts tend to look fairly favourably at police driving under such circumstance as they see it as necessary to achieve the objective, although there is no dispensation in law for the police to dangerous driving/riding, even in a noble cause.

[tom-k6]

im not sure what they have, but i have seen a few unmarked bikes around longbridge and kidderminster that have blues and twos on them, but slotted back in, so it looks like a standard bike until they light you up.

[Jayneflakes]

What a wimp, only 156! Not exactly trying is it? ;-)

Unlucky on being caught, but a bit daft for not checking his mirrors!

[DJFridge]

That speed on it's own might not he dangerous but reaction times for other road users is virtually nil, they might look in their mirror and see it's clear and next second there's a bike appeared, it's just crazy IMO.

On a quiet dual carriageway then maybe for a short blast it might be 'safe' but amongst other road users it isn't.

Agreed. Your own absolute speed is probably only dangerous to yourself; it's your speed relative to other road users that's going to cause problems. Let's face it, if you're a slightly naughty rep doing 90+ in the Mondeo (never done it, cough, honest), when you do a quick check before pulling out into the outside lane you aren't really expecting to see anything because you're already at least 10mph faster than anything else you can see. The bike doing SIXTY miles an hour faster than you isn't even going to register. Bang and it's goodnight Vienna.


He may well have been "in total control of his motorcycle at all times" but he wasn't in control of any of the other vehicles around him. He's bl00dy lucky not to be behind bars or 6ft under. And it rubs off on all of us - to Mr or Mrs Average, all bikers are dangerous ****s anyway and this just proves it.

Well, that's my two penn'th anyway

[Red Herring]

Unmarked bikes can be fitted with blue lights, but they don't have the appropriate rear markings to be able to stop other vehicles on a Motorway. They can take stuff off at a slip road, and stop it off the carriageway, which may be what happened in this case.

[Kilted Ginger]

No defense, Everybody thinks they are safe / in control at whatever speed they choose to ride. Undertaking is a straight careless or dangerous without the speeding. Lucky to still be at liberty

[Red Herring]

..... Undertaking is a straight careless or dangerous without the speeding........

Why's that then?

[Kilted Ginger]

Dont know, just know that's how it is classed up here. I'm assuming thats not the case where you are.
I'll ask next time i speak to the traffic boys if you want.

My post reads as if thats my opinion, its not. its how the offence is classified here, or so i've been reliably informed.

[Dave20046]

I don't think undertaking is careless/dangerous 100% of the time, overtaking on the left is not illegal (to my knowledge!). Not seen the footage and not denying that to be the case here though!

[NTECUK]

The better vid shows the tug.
In Essex the plan bikes have riders in hi vis jackets .
Not what your everyday power ranger R1 pilot goes for.
And given they are enthusiastic bikers,They seam reasonable as long as you don't take the mick,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXya8UNGx08

[Red Herring]

That proved me wrong then didn't it! Mind you, it might have been that he intended him to go up the slip road just ahead and the rider just pulled up short. Oh well.

[NTECUK]

The first undertake recorded (police bike doing 85mph) is at an exit slip road.
So he had a guard-en angle there (white van and all ;) )
and given the pursuit bikes speed there i guess he passed him =:o
You can see how bright the blues \strobes are as they reflect in the tail lamp.

[suzukigt380paul]

a lot off fuse about nothing,from the clip on utube the only thing doing a 156 is the copper catching up to him.anycase if its dangerous to do a 156mph then why are the police allowed to do these speeds and be given evo's a subaru's,anycase as dangerous as this is its about time the police started to do something about lorries pulling out in front of you on dual and motor ways with out warning or the number of car traverling at night with light out these thing are just as dangerous but rarely make the headlines

[-Ralph-]

You won't lose 'em in a straight line

Nobody on here will loose them in the twisties either.

although there is no dispensation in law for the police to dangerous driving/riding, even in a noble cause.

You wouldn't know it sometimes. Twice this week - I've seen a police panda car razzing it through here (linky) (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shirley,+solihull&hl=en&ll=52.398144,-1.819766&spn=0.002209,0.006539&hnear=Shirley,+West+Midlands,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.398072,-1.819638&panoid=68nj9Y3-xSlmyJrwn8Qlow&cbp=12,151.39,,0,4.13), 30mph limit, young lad in uniform gunned it off the roundabout, came past me just like you'd expect a boy racer in a hot hatch to do, then swing right at the next roundabout with plenty body roll. He was having a chat and a laugh with the officer in the passenger seat, no blues or twos, no sign of anything other than getting from A to B.

Then today on the M1 a police bike joined, over to lane 3 sat there at 90mph for a few junctions, then left again. Again no blues twos, no sign of anything other than a routine journey.

One law for one another law for another, double standards. They should be setting a good example whenever driving a marked vehicle IMO.

[-Ralph-]

Oh, and the 156mph biker is a complete tool.

[Bluefish]

exactly, it's the copper doing 156, not the biker, he was only doing 120, and we have all done that.

[kellyjo]

I live in Sawtry,and it is a VERY tempting stretch of road, but thats why there always seems to be both marked and unmarked either sitting in the lay-bys and on the bridges above. Anyone who knows the area would be mad to do 100+

[Dave20046]

2670117]Nobody on here will loose them in the twisties either.



[/QUOTE]

I'd like to think he wasn't humouring me,but it was seemingly achieved on a bikesafe day.
I won't mention the speeds on the straights while '1 rule for them' is being banded about

[Sally]

Dont know, just know that's how it is classed up here. I'm assuming thats not the case where you are.
I'll ask next time i speak to the traffic boys if you want.

My post reads as if thats my opinion, its not. its how the offence is classified here, or so i've been reliably informed.

In the eyes of the law up here it is, my mate got banned for a year with a rather hefty fine for his wage for undertaking a car which was sitting in the right hand lane on the left. Copper was behind him watching this in a unmarked car.

[Milky Bar Kid]

In the eyes of the law up here it is, my mate got banned for a year with a rather hefty fine for his wage for undertaking a car which was sitting in the right hand lane on the left. Copper was behind him watching this in a unmarked car.

It's not. It depends on the circumstances and the officers opinion of the manouvere. Its not a definate Section 3 but you would probably only get away with it on an empty motorway with just one pillock hogging 2 or 3 lane.

[-Ralph-]

The majority of motorways in Scotland are two lane and say undertaking up there is a more dangerous move up there than it is down here. The people tolerate it much less too and you need to be very agressive witha powerful vehicle to get away with it as people will try to match your speed and block you from re-entering the lane. I used to see it regularly on the M8 in the rush hour as evertone hogs lane 2 whilst on lorries use lane 1 and some people would get very impatient. I used to just get on the brakes wben I saw it happening ahead because I knew there was going to be braking, jostling and shaking fists when the offender cut back inand that filters back down the queue.

I dont know if thats why the law is the way it is.

[-Ralph-]

posting from phone sorry 4 typos

[highlander]

dont know about the rest of you but take a look at the youtube link with the whole video.

i think the fella was robbed cant see this as dangerous in my eyes.

loada shyte press and media

http://youtu.be/bFqVpHHN-LM

[-Ralph-]

dont know about the rest of you but take a look at the youtube link with the whole video.

i think the fella was robbed cant see this as dangerous in my eyes.

http://youtu.be/bFqVpHHN-LM

The undertake was a bit idiotic. If it were a 65mph lane hogger in that lane for no reason I could understand it, but the car was doing 80mph, it would have delayed him all of 10 seconds to wait for it to pass the truck.

The police riders riding left a bit to be desired at 2:15 though, he could have planned and executed that overtake way sooner and not got so close to the back of the silver car.

[suzukigt380paul]

dont know about the rest of you but take a look at the youtube link with the whole video.

i think the fella was robbed cant see this as dangerous in my eyes.

loada shyte press and media

http://youtu.be/bFqVpHHN-LMi agree with you,the blokes been hung out to dry,shouldnt have been worth more then a slap on the wrist

[daveyrach]

Was it Joe Marcon on a restricted SV.........?

(Sorry couldn't help myself)

[Specialone]

dont know about the rest of you but take a look at the youtube link with the whole video.

i think the fella was robbed cant see this as dangerous in my eyes.

loada shyte press and media

http://youtu.be/bFqVpHHN-LM

Actually you see a whole other side to the story when you see the full version, he does one silly little blast for seconds but mainly his speed is below 90 mph.


Just unlucky there was a cop tailing him I guess.

[suzukigt380paul]

ive been stopped by a moter bike cop while doing 90mph on the A14(traffic slowed me down,i kid you not,was nearer a 120 just before that),but he wasnt a jobs worth,and after a little lecture and a bit of yes sir no sir thank you very much,i was told to carry on and have a safe journey(he was a good cop),and a few days ago i saw one of these police action ,what ever it was called on tv,and a unmarked police bike,a fjr13 0r something similar with a marked bike following to pull up any one,and he was doing a 140mph to keep up and catch a few older bikers(sorry middle aged! younger then me) on a sunday run and after stopping them all at a alleged 140mph while being fimed and also shown on tv,they were let off with a £200 speed aware course and no points on there licence,now he was a nice copper, there not all bad

[tonyk]

Oh shyt i better start riding more slowly...lol £2000 i cannot pay up..

[Specialone]

ive been stopped by a moter bike cop while doing 90mph on the A14(traffic slowed me down,i kid you not,was nearer a 120 just before that),but he wasnt a jobs worth,and after a little lecture and a bit of yes sir no sir thank you very much,i was told to carry on and have a safe journey(he was a good cop),and a few days ago i saw one of these police action ,what ever it was called on tv,and a unmarked police bike,a fjr13 0r something similar with a marked bike following to pull up any one,and he was doing a 140mph to keep up and catch a few older bikers(sorry middle aged! younger then me) on a sunday run and after stopping them all at a alleged 140mph while being fimed and also shown on tv,they were let off with a £200 speed aware course and no points on there licence,now he was a nice copper, there not all bad

Yeah thats been shown a few times, I thought they were lucky tbh, some of the overtaking could've been safer IMO.


I got pulled on a straight road doing around 70-75 in a 50 literally for 30 seconds, pulled off from an island and there was a bike behind me, got up to a cruising speed then I was pulled.

[Red Herring]

The majority of motorways in Scotland are two lane and say undertaking up there is a more dangerous move up there than it is down here. The people tolerate it much less too and you need to be very agressive witha powerful vehicle to get away with it as people will try to match your speed and block you from re-entering the lane. I used to see it regularly on the M8 in the rush hour as evertone hogs lane 2 whilst on lorries use lane 1 and some people would get very impatient. I used to just get on the brakes wben I saw it happening ahead because I knew there was going to be braking, jostling and shaking fists when the offender cut back inand that filters back down the queue.

I dont know if thats why the law is the way it is.

I think there is a whole load of difference between passing someone on the nearside because of their poor lane discipline, and passing a line of traffic on the nearside when they are all waiting their turn to pass a slower vehicle.

In the first scenario you are past and gone, in the second you are putting yourself in conflict with another motorist for space, effectively "queue jumping". Remember Section 3 isn't just Careless driving, it contains an element of without due consideration as well.

[-Ralph-]

I think there is a whole load of difference between passing someone on the nearside because of their poor lane discipline, and passing a line of traffic on the nearside when they are all waiting their turn to pass a slower vehicle.

You could argue the latter is also a result of the former. Many of these people are not 'waiting their turn' to pass the slower vehicle (it could be 1/2 mile ahead of them). They joined the motorway and went straight into lane 2, they also have no interest in going any faster than they are and if they were in lane 1 they wouldn't reach the slower vehicle any sooner, and they have no intention of returning to lane 1 once past the slower vehicle, or indeed until they reach their exit.

In England with three lanes, the middle lane hoggers effectively reduce the number of lanes and make the motorway a dual carriage way. In Scotland, it just becomes a single track road.

[Red Herring]

I'm not arguing with you Ralph, I'm just saying there is a subtle difference. Personally I prefer to remain in the nearside lane until a reasonable distance behind the slower vehicle, and then move out into the offside line, but it sometimes requires some negotiation with the vehicles already there. Because of this a lot of drivers don't want the potential for conflict so they move out there at the first opportunity, leading to the 1/2 mile scenario you describe. We can compare it to the "merge in turn" issues at road works if you like. We all know how it should work, unfortunately a minority cause it to go wrong for the majority.

[-Ralph-]

I've reached a conclusion on lane discipline in England, to define WHEN somebody is 'lane hogging'. You see I don't mind being held up, if the driver holding me up is gaining on the vehicle they are overtaking and driving in accordance with the highway code. The conclusion I have reached is that if there is room to undertake them in my 140bhp 1.8, without changing down out of 6th gear, and without coming into conflict with them at all, then they shouldn't be there. If there isn't room for such an undertake, then they probably have every right to be there and people behind them just need more patience.

The number of people I get in lane 3, right on my bumper pushing to get past, when I'm overtaking a line of vehicles in lane 2, I am gaining on them (and not a totally insignificant speed differential, ie: at least 5mph and I'm doing sales rep speed already!) and there is not a big enough gap between the vehicles in lane 2 for me to pull back in and stay there for at least 20 seconds. I look in the mirror and think, "you want me out of your way, but WTF do you want me to go?". Lane hoggers are a pain in the rrrssss, but impatient tail gaters are more dangerous.

[-Ralph-]

I'm not arguing with you Ralph

Didn't think you were, I was just making a further observation on it.

[NTECUK]

The big naughty is the undertake at the off slip.
Seen a few "shirt that's my turn "late maneuvers to risk that one.
But there are so many lane hogs on the A12 its not funny.
And I'm with you on the tail gate stance.

[Biker Biggles]

He was speeding more than the three points and £60 level.
So he should get a ban and a bigger fine.
BUT------He was on a motorcycle so prejudice comes into it and he gets at least double the punishment a car driver would have got.

[suzukigt380paul]

He was speeding more than the three points and £60 level.
So he should get a ban and a bigger fine.
BUT------He was on a motorcycle so prejudice comes into it and he gets at least double the punishment a car driver would have got.lets face it if we banned every one who did over 100 let alone over 70mph then at that rate there soon wouldnt be any one left on the road to buy fuel and pay tax's barring a few lorries and a few old farts(my farther included)who never do more then 60mph even on a motorway,so like they say, those with out sin!,those who have never broke the speed limit ever then may be they can have a opinion on these people,no one was hirt or injured,and unlike other thing that happen in this country where people do bad things and get let of with little more then a slap on the rist

[Red Herring]

lets face it if we banned every one who did over 100 let alone over 70mph then at that rate there soon wouldnt be any one left on the road to buy fuel and pay tax's barring a few lorries and a few old farts(my farther included)who never do more then 60mph even on a motorway,so like they say, those with out sin!,those who have never broke the speed limit ever then may be they can have a opinion on these people,no one was hirt or injured,and unlike other thing that happen in this country where people do bad things and get let of with little more then a slap on the rist

?
Are you saying only those that never break the law can offer an opinion on the rights and wrongs of doing so? I would suggest an opinion is normally more valuable from an individual with some experience of the subject manner.

[MattCollins]

This has been an interesting case and as an outsider looking in there is no condoning the actions of the rider, he was done without question, but I would question the actions of the cop.

What I saw in that video was a spirited, albeit illegal adventure for the rider where closure speeds where probably in the 20-30mph range - high, but not extremely so. The "dangerous" speed for which the rider was sensationally convicted did not occur until after he was approached by the unmarked bike.
Did the unmarked bike have blues? If not, why would he have approached the rider? To flash his warrant card?!!! Fat lot of good that would do him when the rider did what he did. As the "responsible" person the cop had to be aware that sometimes riders will race each other and that he would have absolutely no way to control the situation if that were to occur.
Why then would the cop pursue? In the interests of public safety the prudent course might have been for the cop to back off and move back into the middle lane negating the impetuous for the actions of the rider. The cop could have made the lost ground back, but even if he lost the rider he still had video of the plate, a radio and an entire police force. Was he seeking evidence? Once he had the plate he probably already had enough from the first minute of the video to have the rider in a court room that he did not need to pursue.
If the unmarked bike did have lights then why did he not use them immediately (regardless of the lighting/signage rules for unmarked bikes) to circumvent what some would believe to be a public safety issue? Was he hanging the rider out to convict himself at the expense of public safety which is the pretext for the police being out on the roads in the first place?

The whole thing looks like a risk management fail on the part of the cop.

FWIW

[Red Herring]

I say that as an outsider looking in your not missing much.
Up to about 3.35 I say the police officer was clearly keeping an eye on the rider and to be perfectly honest his riding up to then probably wouldn't have even attracted a stop. It takes a certain amount of resources and time to stop a bike and unmarked vehicles (bikes and cars) can generally concentrate on the more deserving cases, and up to then this wasn't one of them.

At 3.39 you see the rider having a good look in his mirrors, he then briefly accelerates and has another good look. At this point he makes his mistake because at the first opportunity he gets he gives it the beans, and yes the cop goes with him, right up to 150+ (he was actually dropping the cop as they went through 140). I suspect this is when the officer then put on his blues as the rider immediately drops his speed right down, and eventually pulls over.

You can call it entrapment if you want. Do you really want the police to go out and stop every rider who may be a little bit over the speed limit, or concentrate on the ones who cannot ride responsibly. If this rider is in the habit of taking on a bike that comes up behind him how many times has he done it when it hasn't been a cop? We all play with our mates occasionally, but we know them and them us. Here you have a rider that takes on the complete unknown and I don't think that's responsible. There are going to be those out there who say each rider makes their own decisions and he shouldn't be held responsible if someone decides to follow him up to speed, but in the real world it doesn't work like that. I have no problem with the actions of the cop, the rider decided to race him and that's what he got convicted for.

[suzukigt380paul]

?
Are you saying only those that never break the law can offer an opinion on the rights and wrongs of doing so? I would suggest an opinion is normally more valuable from an individual with some experience of the subject manner.might be what i said but what i meant is every one on here who is saying he got what he deserved,but how many of those people have broke the law by speeding and not got caught,the pot calling the kettle black type of thing

[Lozzo]

Just to add, Cambridgeshire police have at least one unmarked black Fireblade 1000 equipped with camera gear installed in an Oxford tankbag and the camera hidden in the front right side air intake. The blue strobe lights are discretely hidden away but very visible once deployed. I was looking over the bike just the other day but had previously seen it displayed at the Meldreth Manor bike show last summer.

Pretty much every person riding a seriously fast bike in the Cambridgeshire area knows the unmarked camera bike exists, so there's no excuse.

[Milky Bar Kid]

might be what i said but what i meant is every one on here who is saying he got what he deserved,but how many of those people have broke the law by speeding and not got caught,the pot calling the kettle black type of thing

Think most folks point is "live by the sword, die by the sword".

[DJ123]

Think most folks point is "live by the sword, die by the sword".
Agreed. If you know that what you are doing may result in a prosecution/fine/points/ban if you get caught, then you can't complain.
At some point we are all guilty of doing something that is not entirely legal*









*does not apply to Angels or b**********s