Assault on a teacher

[-Ralph-]

So, phone calk from my wife. A secondary student has slammed a door into her back today wbile she stood in the doorway. She is suffering neck and back pain. Violence against teachers seems to be a common occurrence in tbis school and IMO the school has a poor history in dealing with it and tends to come down in favour of the student and fails to support the teacher. The occurrences just in my wifes department of 5 teachers alone, include a pregnant teacher being pushed into the wall and another being stabbed with a pen. In neither case was the student expelled or even te.porarily suspended.

Any thoughts on what the next steps should be are welcome please, particularly from those who work in education (how wouldit be dealt with in your workplace?). We dont have much confidence the school will sort the issue in a satisfactory manner (expulsion IMO) but of course will go through that process first.

Involve the police, go to the teachers union? All thoughts welcome.

[-Ralph-]

posting from phone pls excuse typos

[tom-k6]

find out the kids name, wait for him to leave school and find a dark alleyway to kick the shizzle out of him. will soon stop it. i do believe they need to come down hard one this, as when i was at school we had one "hard lad" square up to a relatively small maths teacher, the teacher tried to back off and the lad grabbed him. never seen a teacher use martial arts in class room and flatten someone so fast before. the teacher was, on this occasion, given a week suspension while they dealt with the lad through the police and the teacher came back with a HELL of alot of respect from all the pupils as people knew not to mess with him.

hope she's alright mate, she should be supported by the school but we all know how it can be twisted by students etc and they usually end up taking the students side as they may have "anger issues" etc.

[pookie]

What is the head doing about it and what are the school policies and procedures on this?
Hope your wife is ok and hope the school can do more to protect its employees.

[Winder]

More people = louder voice.
Could your other half talk to the other teachers and have them all refuse to teach any class this student is in until he/she is suspended? They should be suspended while the police investigate the assault, if there is no real evidence the student is reinstated, if they are charged by the police push for expulsion.

[speedplay]

It's not ise in Kettering is it..?

[Specialone]

I'd go the proper route,

Head, demand action, investigation then punishment based on findings.

Then the union, if they do bugger all then the police.

If it's swept under the carpet, it WILL keep happening.

Tbh, I do feel the police should be informed straight away but I understand this could cause issues with her colleagues.

Hope she's ok Col, violence in schools is not acceptable, police would soon be called if a teacher assaulted a pupil.

[martin15s]

Police with medical evidence of bruising or other visible signs (if any) asap.

[Messie]

Ralph - I can only tell you what would happen in my school. I have to add the caveat that, although there are at least County wide guidleines, if not Nationwide, in so many ways it is down to the individual schools' policies ( this varies even more now so many schools are now Academies, but don't got me started on that).
If that had happened in the school where I work (which is judged as 'Good' by Ofsted) the first consequence, as a temporary holding measure until more information came about, would be to isolate the student in our Inclusion Room. Other close witnesses to the event may also be put there (for safe keeping, if you like), then statements would be made by all involved. When I say statements I mean a written account of what happened that they are willing to put their signature to If there was sufficient evidence to clearly show that X shoved Y we would admininster punishment as per guidelines. In this type of case it would typically include some days suspension (temporary exclusion) from school.
However, the really big issue is the history of said student. The consequences are very different if it's a one off or first behaviour of this order. If it's the most recent of a history of behavioral incidents then the consequences are much more dire.
I can you more by PM if you want
I hope your wife is ok and not too shaken by the ordeal. Remember that MOST kids, MOST of the time are great

[SIII]

Your missus has my deepest sympathy. I worked in a large comp outside Mansfield before moving up here to a 'good' school. I was involved in many physical assaults whilst at the previous place. My classroom at the front of the school and being 6'2'', i was often called into action to stop fights and assaults of pupils by groups. Not once was I ever backed by the school or action taken against pupils when they swung for me! It was just seen as part of the job and get on with it.
On one occasion 2 girls were fighting, full on hair pulling and biting. A female colleague stepped in to protect the assaultee and seperated them. I then stepped between and the instigator left the premise to be dealt with later(Friday after school, most popular fight time). The police turned up Monday morning and removed colleague for questioning and were going to charge her with assault of the little b1tch that caused all the trouble. Was not sorted till affidavit had to be given by me and charges were dropped. The headmadster then stood up in the staffroom and declared the school and authority were unable to support teachers in such a situation!!!
That unfortunately is the state of education in our country. From my expierence - forget it! Cos you ain't gonna get any satisfaction from school, authority or police! I fully understand your anger and frustration but all you will get is dissapointment from all concerned.
If you have a good management at the school they should go for expulsion but this is very difficult to get, all the rules are against it. Suspension would probably the best you can hope for.

[Messie]

Permanent exlusion (expulsion) is a complicated and even expensive consequence and may well result in an even worse child being put into the school to fill the place

[Bri w]

Assault is a criminal offence. If there's proof why would the school set itself above the law with its own internal policies? I'd give the Head the option of informing the Police, or I'd do it myself - but I'm an awkward, stroppy bu99er.

[aliwakeskate]

Ralph, from my experience in 2 different schools (and like others have said) they all deal with it in their own different ways so best to follow the school procedure whether that sucks or not.

I have had recent dealings where I required the advice and backup of the unions (nothing to do with pupils though) and they were fantastic and very supportive - but I thought long and hard before I contacted them over how that would be perceived by the school. Schools (not all) don't want you to involve the unions if it can be helped as it can get a little messy. You can also be seen as a 'trouble maker' if you have gone 'running' to the unions, even if you have no choice. For me I had no choice but to involve the unions and explained to senior management why I had involved them as they themselves had not followed correct procedures.

It was all resolved. As I had explored all avenues with the school and given them opportunities to not involve the unions there was no bad feelings at all - I had been open with them all the time.

In my school, any incidents of intimidation, violence or abuse directed towards teachers are immediately dealt with by either isolation from the rest of the school, short term suspension (up to 3 days) or permanent exclusion. Like others have said, permanent exclusion of pupils can be difficult for schools as there has to be a concrete case against the pupil after a serious incident and witnesses. Having said that, no teacher at my school has been assaulted since I have been there but we are told if any teacher is then the pupil will be exluded. Plenty of pupils have been suspended for verbal abuse, so the school does follow up it's policies.

It sounds like your wife's schools behavioral policy is not that well carried out or supported if incidents like this have happened before and have not been dealt with. Unfortunately, there is not a great deal your wife can do about this apart from go and speak to the relevant senior staff at school to find out what they are going to do about this pupil and asked to be kept in the loop.

Me personally I would contact the unions asap to inform them I have been assaulted but ask that they not get involved yet and ask for some advice on how to proceed. I did this with my issue and they were very helpful giving me advice about how the school should be dealing with it so that when I need them to get involved, they had most of the facts. Also, if your wife has an injury she may need to get it documented for further investigation and possible assault compensation, and the unions will advise on how best to document and record the evidence.

Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you need anything else.

Pass on my best wishes to your wife as I'm sure this has been a pretty awful experience.

Al

[Quiff Wichard]

all the best to S hope you spoiling her GWS

[-Ralph-]

Thanks for all the advice and good wishes guys, I shall pass it on and we'll see what comes out in the wash tomorrow.

[martin15s]

Permanent exlusion (expulsion) is a complicated and even expensive consequence and may well result in an even worse child being put into the school to fill the place

So that makes it all Ok then. Blow the expense and complications - sod the effect on the poor little hooligan (sorry - child) - get back to real discipline and support the teachers. The "child" is not the victim here - it is the teacher.

[Messie]

No, it doesn't make it all OK

Take a deep breathe, count to ten and accept that there is always a lot more to a situation such as this than immediately meets the eye.

I, and no-oe lse here, is making any sweeping asumptons about who is or isn't a 'victim' - well, apart from you. And no-one is saying that teachers don't have support.

[MattCollins]

Assault is a criminal offence. If there's proof why would the school set itself above the law with its own internal policies? I'd give the Head the option of informing the Police, or I'd do it myself - but I'm an awkward, stroppy bu99er.

That is precisely what I'd have thought. Here it must be reported, if not by the individual, then by the school.

[flymo]

So, phone calk from my wife. A secondary student has slammed a door into her back today wbile she stood in the doorway. She is suffering neck and back pain. Violence against teachers seems to be a common occurrence in tbis school and IMO the school has a poor history in dealing with it and tends to come down in favour of the student and fails to support the teacher. The occurrences just in my wifes department of 5 teachers alone, include a pregnant teacher being pushed into the wall and another being stabbed with a pen. In neither case was the student expelled or even te.porarily suspended.

Any thoughts on what the next steps should be are welcome please, particularly from those who work in education (how wouldit be dealt with in your workplace?). We dont have much confidence the school will sort the issue in a satisfactory manner (expulsion IMO) but of course will go through that process first.

Involve the police, go to the teachers union? All thoughts welcome.

Place the responsibility on her employer to look after her welfare, it is their problem to deal with the student as they see fit.

Explain to her boss that she is going to see a doctor and is considering discussing with a solicitor, that should catch their attention.

[martin15s]

My comment was based on the 1st post - no need to count to ten - I am well aware of how to investigate assaults and other crimes. In general terms many reported incidents tend to show that teachers and other professions are left at a disadvantage. I don't necessarily expect you to agree with my comments but this is a relatively open forum, and I doubt that my necessarily brief comments are at completely at odds with the world at large.
I hope that the teacher here has no serious or permanent injury after what may have been a deliberate or reckless incident. I also would like to see that the culprit was properly and effectively dealt with. It is this last point that I sadly believe is often missing.

[Messie]

Ok so lets change the scenario then.

You work in shop and a customer gets a bit annoyed. Bit of shouting and a bit of a shove into a door. What do you think would happen then? Oh, and by the way, the pusher is under 16

You are a builder/plumber/fitter and someone doesn't agree with what you are saying so they push you - then what? You shove them back? How would that end up?

Please people have a bit of a think about this? We are talking about schools. Before you start spouting off about how you think it SHOULD be, how about trying it out for yourselves for a while.
I've offered before but I'll do it here again now - try it out with me for a week or even just a day. Subject to necessary checks I'll let any of you shadow me for a day or week. Come and sort it all out for us

[Jayneflakes]

If the school is unable to help in a way that satisfies your wife, take it to her union for back up, particularly if she has an injury that needs further treatment or time off work. I was forced to do this under similar circumstances following a long series of homophobic attacks on me, while employed in a school. In my case the school brushed it under the carpet and it cost them in the end because they lost a valued member of staff. The saddest part is that the culprits are often very damaged young people and they do not receive the help and therapy that they need to make them less aggressive or anti social. In my view there are no winners in these cases, only hurt people.

Wish your wife well and send a great big Org Hug.

[martin15s]

Ok so lets change the scenario then.

You work in shop and a customer gets a bit annoyed. Bit of shouting and a bit of a shove into a door. What do you think would happen then? Oh, and by the way, the pusher is under 16

You are a builder/plumber/fitter and someone doesn't agree with what you are saying so they push you - then what? You shove them back? How would that end up?

Please people have a bit of a think about this? We are talking about schools. Before you start spouting off about how you think it SHOULD be, how about trying it out for yourselves for a while.
I've offered before but I'll do it here again now - try it out with me for a week or even just a day. Subject to necessary checks I'll let any of you shadow me for a day or week. Come and sort it all out for us

What, me count to ten......I speak after 30 years of policing - I am not attacking you personally but our society which has become too soft on dealing with "minor" crimes and "antisocial behaviour". How it should be is for children to learn how to respect themselves, and those around them - particularly those trying to help and teach them. My responses have been in answer the OP for comments and advice. He, and his wife, are at liberty to agree or not.

[Biker Biggles]

Place the responsibility on her employer to look after her welfare, it is their problem to deal with the student as they see fit.

Explain to her boss that she is going to see a doctor and is considering discussing with a solicitor, that should catch their attention.

Thats right.Health and safety in the workplace is everyones responsibility,but ultimately the employer is liable for any failures.That means as long as you take reasonable precautions and keep the management informed of any issues they have to deal with it or face the possibility of a big legal case.

[Messie]

Shame that the Police Officer, who had an office at our school and was in our school for 2 days a week, has had her funding cut. She said that her work in the school (the service was put into all schools in our area) was invaluable in getting to know the kids and families and she reckoned more good and crime prevention has been done as a result than most other crime prevention strategies. She always FULLY supported our school's behavioir management strategies and commented that we could do more to sanction kids than she could ever do! She only ever pulled rank as it were, when offences were committed outside school and, more often than not, would look to us to help. The Police are evn more hanstrung than the education service when it comes to dealing with minors! Do me a favour - you got out of it!

[martin15s]

Messie ...... Do me a favour - you got out of it!

So will you when the time comes. It doesn't change the fact that there deep underlying problems within our society regarding morals and behaviour. I am a parent and a grandparent - don't you think I despair for the future of my young ones. You are absolutely correct about those in authority being hamstrung - no one is blaming you, we have to blame society and governments for allowing and basically accepting the rot. I really do not envy you your job, and I certainly do not want mine back again - I , and my wife, also ex police, have too many health problems because of it. It does not mean that I do not care.

[speedplay]

Ok so lets change the scenario then.

You work in shop and a customer gets a bit annoyed. Bit of shouting and a bit of a shove into a door. What do you think would happen then? Oh, and by the way, the pusher is under 16

You are a builder/plumber/fitter and someone doesn't agree with what you are saying so they push you - then what? You shove them back? How would that end up?



Both scenarios would be reportable as assault.

Report it to the already overstretched police and leave it to them to slap his/her wrists, caution, do bugger all etc etc

[MisterTommyH]

What about the HSE route?

If this is a recurring incident it is a known risk that should be risk assessed and have reasonable measures put in place to prevent further instances. By not doing this the head / LEA is failing in their duty of care to their employee.

[Messie]

Both scenarios would be reportable as assault.

Report it to the already overstretched police and leave it to them to slap his/her wrists, caution, do bugger all etc etc

Exactly the point I wanted to make. In my experience, and I accept this may not be the case in all schools, we actually do more to sanction the kid than the police do.

Anyway, I'll leave the discussion to others now. Ralph's missus had an unfortunate incident at her school. It's up to her and them to sort out.

If anyone wants to find out what it's like in an ordinary comp by doing a bit of work shadowing, then PM me

[martin15s]

What about the HSE route?

If this is a recurring incident it is a known risk that should be risk assessed and have reasonable measures put in place to prevent further instances. By not doing this the head / LEA is failing in their duty of care to their employee.

We often hear of zero tolerance policies without genuine government/society backing - we really only seem to treat the symptoms, not the root causes. Until we move away from many of the liberal woolly minded notions I fear little will change. I certainly do not advocate a totalitarian police state, but a return to common sense and true moral values (no doubt we will be divided on the interpretation of such). Over the years we have gradually begun to accept what is unacceptable as acceptable. The question is how can we change and do we really want to?

Sorry if this moving too far way from -Ralph's- original post.

[speedplay]

Exactly the point I wanted to make. In my experience, and I accept this may not be the case in all schools, we actually do more to sanction the kid than the police do.

Anyway, I'll leave the discussion to others now. Ralph's missus had an unfortunate incident at her school. It's up to her and them to sort out.

If anyone wants to find out what it's like in an ordinary comp by doing a bit of work shadowing, then PM me

I wasn't in any way condoning the action.
I personally think that society and schooling has gone to sh*t.
Schools have gone far too soft and pc, seeming to look for the easiest (cheapest) way to deal with any problems or issues.
I know it can't all be blamed on schools and parents carry a lot of the responsability also.
Things seemed to have changed much for the worse since I was at school (not all that long ago in the grand scheme of things), there was hell to pay for playing up and god help you when you got home to the parents!
Seems there is no respect for anything anymore as its importance isn't being passed onto the future generations.

[Sir Trev]

Just imagine the look on the little scrotes face if he ever gets a job and carries on in the same vein because he thinks he can always get away with it... right up to the point when the security guard hands him a black bag/cardboard box after his manager and HR department have told him he's fired for gross misconduct. School is part of the (no pun intended) education for life that we give our kids and it should be realistic to the extent that you start as you mean to go on. Three of my good uni mates are teachers and the ones in the public sector schools have similar horror stories and frustrations as you guys have listed. The one in the private school does not have it so bad as the school admissions are based on projected results and if you don't make the grade you're out.

Ralph - wish your wife well. And fingers crossed it all works out for her.

[svrich]

I've just refreshed my training on intervention and physical restraint (Special School theacher) and the recent guidance on physical intervention is shocking. The key to it all though is reasonable and appropriate. If this lad is a regular offender he should have very clear behaviour management guidance, and sanctions. If this is a first then they should be drawn up very soon. The School should have clearly defined behaviour management policy and procedures. These must be regulary reviewed and shared with staff, and adhered to. The School will be walking on very thin ice if niether/either are the case.
I wish your wife a full and speedy recovery, and don't let her let the school get away without doing anything.

[MisterTommyH]

We often hear of zero tolerance policies without genuine government/society backing - we really only seem to treat the symptoms, not the root causes.

nevertheless if mrs Ralph is not is a position to effect root cause change the HSE is an option that is there. They are one area of government that seems to act on their remit (perhaps a little too eagerly at times), but it's not unknown for them to interject on sites and close them down where there are un-addressed risks. I don't see why the fact that the risk is a person should make any difference.

[-Ralph-]

Yesterday another male pupil was excluded for 2 days for squaring up to a female teacher in a threatening manner, before pushing her into the wall. 4th incident in about 3 months. The kid will be happy to have got 2 days off to play his xbox.

[DJFridge]

Yesterday another male pupil was excluded for 2 days for squaring up to a female teacher in a threatening manner, before pushing her into the wall. 4th incident in about 3 months. The kid will be happy to have got 2 days off to play his xbox.

On which he probably happily plays 18 cert games, which his parents are happy to ignore/condone. I blame the parents. If you're brought up to respect your elders (old fashioned view I know), you tend not to push your teachers around. That starts, or doesn't, at home.

[svrich]

And his parents probably mouthing off on Facebook how sh1tty the school is!

[yorkie_chris]

punishment as per guidelines.... some days suspension (temporary exclusion)

Which dribbling spastic* decided a day off was a fitting punishment for being an unruly little sh*te?

Hows about 2 weeks shoveling coal from one side of boiler house to other and back again?


*If anyone finds out, please inform me of his address. Whereupon I will go and kick seven bells out of him, p*ss on his couch and await my expenses paid trip to somewhere warm :-P

[-Ralph-]

On which he probably happily plays 18 cert games, which his parents are happy to ignore/condone. I blame the parents. If you're brought up to respect your elders (old fashioned view I know), you tend not to push your teachers around. That starts, or doesn't, at home.

It starts at home but when it comes to actions carried out in school it doesn't necessarily finish at home. Another pupil got excluded for 5 days for setting off the fire alarm (become a bit of a craze recently, happened 12 times now (!), so the school is cracking down on it). The pupils have been heard joking that the kid that carried out the fire alarm prank, should have just assaulted a teacher instead as it carries a lesser punishment.

It's the 4th such incident in recent times and the first exclusion, so pupils have watched it happen 3 times with no apparent punishment. So when that kid felt like pushing a teacher, what was his deterrent? He didn't have one, he's seen three other kids do it and it went unpunished, so he might as well jump on the bandwagon.

Kids need consistent rules and consistent discipline. If they don't have that in any environment, home or school, then they'll be unable to establish what their acceptable boundaries are when they are in that environment. If that's the case they have to test the water to find the boundary, because it hasn't been clearly set out for them, so you get them doing unacceptable things.

Then where there are teachers that can't be bothered with the conflict of imposing a punishment, the pupils are getting away with things. When the cats away (or the cat can't be bothered) the mice will play. And in this school the mice are setting the rules, and they know it!

I could go on and on. My wife tries to confiscate a mobile phone because a pupil is on MSN messenger in class. The pupil tells her to get lost and puts the phone in the pocket and point blank refuses to give it to her. She can't drag the pupil off the chair and forcibly remove it from the kids pocket, so she hands out a detention (which the kid doesn't turn up for). The pupil kicks off and starts shouting the odds because she was on MSN Messenger in another class, and that teacher just told her to put the phone away, but didn't try to confiscate it or give a detention, so 'it's not fair'. All that's needed there is the ground rule set by the headmaster in assembly one day, that if any teacher so much as sees a mobile phone in a classroom it WILL be confiscated and the pupil will not get it back until 3pm. Then ALL teachers enforce the same rule consistently. That's called setting acceptable boundaries! This kids will soon stop getting the phone out of the bag or the pocket in class at school, regardless of what their parents allow them to do with the phone at home.

[svrich]

'She can't drag the pupil off the chair and forcibly remove it from the kids pocket'
In not quite such blunt terms, yes she can. If the disruption is causing 'harm' (that being the disruption to the class and x number of students missing out on x number of minutes of education) she has the power, and, by government, is expected to use it, to remove the harm (either the phone or the pupil). And that goes for every member of staff in the school, from the Head to the kitchen staff! And the official government guidance is that schools don't need to create a policy about it.

[Dicky Ticker]

I am going to make a comment here that in today's world is completely non P.C. Corporal punishment existed during the time I was at school and these sort of incidents very very rarely occurred because you knew who was going to suffer in the long run and in my school you would get it for verbal abuse never mind physical.This was all the way through primary to senior secondary but it taught you respect which in today's world seems to be something severely lacking in some pupils behaviour.[NOT ALL]
I will add that this was a two way street in my schools and if a teacher was abusive to you ,you had the right to see the head teacher,or master which left everybody on a much better footing.

[-Ralph-]

'She can't drag the pupil off the chair and forcibly remove it from the kids pocket'
In not quite such blunt terms, yes she can. If the disruption is causing 'harm' (that being the disruption to the class and x number of students missing out on x number of minutes of education) she has the power, and, by government, is expected to use it, to remove the harm (either the phone or the pupil). And that goes for every member of staff in the school, from the Head to the kitchen staff! And the official government guidance is that schools don't need to create a policy about it.

Oh, I didn't realise it was that simple. I'm sure as a 9 1/2 stone, 5 1/2 foot female she'll be delighted to know that the government allows her to physically take on a 15 year old 6ft 14 stone male who has a history of loosing his rag with teachers, thinks he's king bull testosterone and has been taught no morals, in a school that has a problem with teachers getting assaulted.

I'll be sure to let her know. Problem solved, thanks. :rolleyes:

[Lozzo]

Cattle prods - all teachers should be issued with them.

[RACEFIT_GLADDY]

If anything the school are to blame, I cant beleive they are not suspending their students for acts of violence, at my school if you bleached your hair an extreme colour you got a suspension, another foot out of line and you were expelled. It was as simple as that and we never had fould language directed at teachers nevermind actualt physical violence. If anybody expects your partener to defend herself they are mad, If the child has been raised to answer to nobody there will only be one outcome.

[-Ralph-]

foul language directed at teachers

Daily occurrence mate, including racist foul language directed at a black teacher.

[RACEFIT_GLADDY]

It's sad, i bet when your wife qualified to be a teacher it was one of the best days of her life, now children don't realise is all she is trying to do is give them a better chance of making something of their lives.

[ravingdavis]

I cannot believe this is allowed to go on. Granted I went to a private school but ANY form of disrespect to a teacher would result in repercussions. If i was caught swearing or god forbid assaulting a teacher I would have been out of ghe school gates on at least a suspension in a matter of minutes... But then respect for others was instilled as a basic part of my education, perhaps this is what is lacking.

[shonadoll]

It's appalling. The school sounds very unsupportive. The school my kids go to ( state) has a zero tolerance policy and it works.

[svrich]

I'm not saying it's right, and that she must do it, but the school need to do much more about it. I agree that your wife isn't in the physical position to manage these situations so the Management need to do a hell of a lot more to support their staff. There is a lot of training and support available if they spoke to the County Council about it. If they don't it's sounds like it's only a matter of time before a serious incident occurs and the newspapers do their best.
My point being that the government seems to be hanging schools out to dry with they way they have reduced the requirements and guidance around dealing with severe behaviours. It's a very dangerous position that your wife is in, physically and politically. She needs to lay it out for the school management, and get talking to her union and the education department at county level.
I hope things improve for her, and I don't sound 'all knowing,' but I am fortunate to work in a school that respects the safety of its staff and pupils, and invests in regular training that works.

[-Ralph-]

Advice appreciated, thanks! :thumright:

[maviczap]

I'm not saying it's right, and that she must do it, but the school need to do much more about it. I agree that your wife isn't in the physical position to manage these situations so the Management need to do a hell of a lot more to support their staff. There is a lot of training and support available if they spoke to the County Council about it. If they don't it's sounds like it's only a matter of time before a serious incident occurs and the newspapers do their best.
My point being that the government seems to be hanging schools out to dry with they way they have reduced the requirements and guidance around dealing with severe behaviours. It's a very dangerous position that your wife is in, physically and politically. She needs to lay it out for the school management, and get talking to her union and the education department at county level.
I hope things improve for her, and I don't sound 'all knowing,' but I am fortunate to work in a school that respects the safety of its staff and pupils, and invests in regular training that works.

+1

Sound like the Management team aren't the leaders they should be.

This sort of thing doesn't happen in my daughters school

[-Ralph-]

Well, it had to happen eventually. One of my wife's colleagues taken into A&E today with a broken nose, punched in the face by a pupil.

[EssexDave]

Community service (perhaps within the school) should be enforced, rather than this tempory exclusion malarkey.

Why give a kid a day off when the thing they probably want most is to not be at school :S

[Dave20046]

Well, it had to happen eventually. One of my wife's colleagues taken into A&E today with a broken nose, punched in the face by a pupil.

Chap? I worked in a school quite a few years a go an the blokes were always getting hit, they employed fairly big blokes as enforcer types. Never saw a woman getting abused - if it's any piece of mind.

[Mrs_giggles]

gettign the police to do a right lot is really hard bit of a tengent here but i experienced a similar thing in my line of work a couple of weeks ago, im a support worker with people with learning disabilities and whilst at someones flat i was assaulted by the individual, luckly i have good reflex's and instantly covered the part of my body that she was going for(my face and head) therefor did not sustain and physical harm as such, it was reported to my work and to the police who went round bo her flat and "talked to her" but basically did nothing as she said she didnt do anything, now as a result i have lost hours at work and i seem to be the only one suffering from the experience as it has shook me up, its ok having polocies and procedures around these things but if an individual weather it be a school kid or an adult is not really going to worry about concequences when thre is a severe ack of them.
The ones in schools that do these kinds of things are the ones that dont really want to be there so expulsion only means that they dont have to get up and do something!!!
they see it as a good thing half the time?

[Mrs DJ Fridge]

At our eldest's school they have internal exclusion, where they have to stay with teachers all day, preferably the head of year. The kids hate it because they get no freedom and they do not get the 'kudos' of having a day off. I doubt the teachers like it, but it is very good of them to put themselves out to do it, it does help making the kids stop and think.

[-Ralph-]

Yes Dave it was a bloke, but as this thread shows the female teachers are far from safe.

This school does pupil isolation too, but it isnt working. When you think about why it isnt working you have to feel a bit sorry for them. With a lot of these kids their life is so **** anyway, they have become immune to punishment, because there isnt anything you can do thats going to make it significantly worse, the kid has given up caring.

It actually isnt the kids fault, he/she wasnt born destined to punch a teacher, its the environment that adults have provided, both at home (parents), on the streets (powers removed from police and other adults scared to intervene for fear or being prosecuted themselves) and at school (poor policies ans leadership) that have resulted in a child taking that action.

[Dave20046]

Yes Dave it was a bloke, but as this thread shows the female teachers are far from safe.

This school does pupil isolation too, but it isnt working. When you think about why it isnt working you have to feel a bit sorry for them. With a lot of these kids their life is so **** anyway, they have become immune to punishment, because there isnt anything you can do thats going to make it significantly worse, the kid has given up caring.

It actually isnt the kids fault, he/she wasnt born destined to punch a teacher, its the environment that adults have provided, both at home (parents), on the streets (powers removed from police and other adults scared to intervene for fear or being prosecuted themselves) and at school (poor policies ans leadership) that have resulted in a child taking that action.
Was just trying to offer *some* peace of mind, may seem pathetic when you know what your wife's being exposed to-but I don't believe it was chance. Or maybe I'm just being naive as to the depths of scum.
On a side note we had isolation when I was at school, it was basically be sat in a room on your own. The thick ones booted the sh*te out of everything and got a bill sent home, my favourite was nicking EVERYTHING you could from the room; rulers,mice, mouse mats,stationary, posters and then filling the teachers drawers/rooms with them. No nbills and it made the time pass. Although I did learn that isolation doesn't really work, the only thing that makes kids 'think' is shame - what's your mum going to say/do when she finds out. If no one cares about you you're going to care about very little.

So I agree, it's a vicious circle. At this particular school a kid had been known to arrive without shoes 'because mum can't afford them', the teachers often speculated that this mum (who didn't seem to be without tan,clothes,drugs etc. for herself) earned more in benefits than the full time, experienced, teaching staff did - the first thing she did with her following spawn (each of them) from an early age and with no symptoms was insist on various 'disability' tests.
What parent would apparently 'hope' for their child to be 'disabled'? ...One that gets awarded a benefits bonus when they are deemed such. I hate the kids = cash mentality.
I know I sound like I've been reading the Sun too much but the above is a real example from a school which had many (majority) similar stories...

[GowerSV]

I was a Deputy Head for many years and was involved with countless incidents where blame was apportioned to pupils and teachers alike, depending on the specific incident. Occasionally the conclusion was clear cut but more often than not there were 'contributory' factors to cloud the issue. Before I retired fully recently, I worked in a school with permanently excluded pupils - real hard nut no hopers (boys and girls). The disfunctionality of some pupils' backgrounds is quite glaring. The front line stand off between teachers and 'screwed-up' youngsters is inevitable. Unfortunately this conflict takes its toll on initially well balanced staff. They often start to get defensive and this in turn will affect their private lives. I have seen broken teachers. Some schools are better at dealing with the conflict than others. 90% of the time teaching is a great job but the lows can be lower than many people experience in the workplace - I know, I've been there. The worst thing is more of the same - no teacher should stay in the classroom until they retire IMO. My memories now are of the lovely kids I had the pleasure of working with. The dark side I care to forget. Your wife is in a wonderful profession and many, many people will remember her with affection when they look back on their schooldays.

[widepants]

earned more in benefits than the full time, experienced, teaching staff did - the first thing she did with her following spawn (each of them) from an early age and with no symptoms was insist on various 'disability' tests.
What parent would apparently 'hope' for their child to be 'disabled'? ...One that gets awarded a benefits bonus when they are deemed such. I hate the kids = cash mentality.
I know I sound like I've been reading the Sun too much but the above is a real example from a school which had many (majority) similar stories...
I could take offence at the above texts.
Im a part time single working dad , and from this week I will probably be taking over the parenting full time.My lad is disabled and it looks like I may have to give up work and claim benifits.Is that wrong when the other option is for my kids to go into care.NOT all single parents should be put in the same "scrounging bracket"

[Dave20046]

I could take offence at the above texts.
Im a part time single working dad , and from this week I will probably be taking over the parenting full time.My lad is disabled and it looks like I may have to give up work and claim benifits.Is that wrong when the other option is for my kids to go into care.NOT all single parents should be put in the same "scrounging bracket"

I don't really see how, I may have mentioned a scenario similar to your circumstances, but did you have kids solely so you didn't have to work?did you hope the worst for your kid so you could earn extra to spend on drugs,fags and booze while your child goes with out?
Unless the answers are yes, you really shouldn't take offence as you've misconstrued my sentiments. I dislike selfish scum, not all people that collect benefits - if that was the case I'd hate pretty much everyone as most people take advantage of the UKs benefit system at some point in their lives

[widepants]

.I said "could" and not "did" and never saw myself ending up like this ,its just easy to point at single parents and blame them.
Even the papers are now saying "single mothers" will now have to look for work when their child get to 5 instead of 7.Not all single parents are women.
And no mate you did not say I put myself here for my own financial gain,so no offence taken

[Owenski]

I doubt your misses school is an isolated case(s). The whole thing is BS, someone attacks you on the street and you put them on thier ass thats self defence, a pupil attacks a teacher and if the teacher puts the pupil down he/she loses thier career.
I'd sign any petition that equalled it out a bit.

I dont see it as the fault of single parents either, just as many nobs come from 2 parents households as come from single parent ones. All kids are going to test the water to see what they can/cant get away with and if no one is telling them "No" then it just goes further and further. The main problem now is that you've got the scrotes who were the first of these disrespectful generations are now parents themselves so its a no longer a single generation ruined, to correct it there needs to be something extreme take place. Personally I vote genocide.

[Dave20046]

.I said "could" and not "did" and never saw myself ending up like this ,its just easy to point at single parents and blame them.
Even the papers are now saying "single mothers" will now have to look for work when their child get to 5 instead of 7.Not all single parents are women.
And no mate you did not say I put myself here for my own financial gain,so no offence taken

Good :)
My point had nothing to do with single parents necessarily (the woman in the example had at least one partner) , there are a lot of scummy, self absorbed, parents who simply don't give a toss about their kids, the kids then grow up in trouble without a hope and with no job prospects follow the same route their parents took and the cycle continues.
THere were parents who point blank refused to collect their kids from school when they were ill (no concern) because "argos are delivering" or "I've got a wash on". This school decided to take the kids swimming once a week purely so they could ensure they at least got one shower

THat's why kids are such little ****s and why teachers actually have to worry about assault

[-Ralph-]

just as many nobs come from 2 parents households as come from single parent ones.



Depends how you define a Nob, anyone can be a nob, but if you mean a problem child, (now this may upset a lot of people, especially divorcees with children, so sorry guys), then I don't think this is true.

The 'majority' of kids at my wife's school come from broken homes, a lot higher than the national average.

I come from a broken home myself and I'm only really starting to realise now at 36, just how much of a negative impact that had on myself and my sister.

Now, before anyone starts flaming me, this is an observation, not a generalisation, and there is a big difference between the illustration of the single mother above popping out kids from different fathers after a one night stand, and the stable family with two loving parents, who married and had kids with all the best of intentions then it went wrong several years later. In the latter circumstance, sometimes people staying together would actually be a much unhappier and more destructive environment for the child than to separate.

You don't always choose what life throws at you, and I don't take for granted that I will be with my wife forever, because change happens whether you like it or not, and if you live your life thinking that it can never change, you are setting yourself up for a big fall. For instance any one of you reading this could topple off your bike tomorrow, fall badly, damage your spinal chord, and find yourself in a wheelchair - you never thought that would happen, but it does anyway! (enjoy the best you have in life today)

Still, I firmly believe that two parents in a stable loving home environment, is a better environment for a child to grow up in, and whilst those two parents can f**k it up and produce a problem child, I would say there are more problem children from broken homes than stable ones.

[widepants]

it is real difficult when children share two homes ,if both parents have differing views on parenting.In that situaton all you can do is the best that you can in the time avaliable.
My misses is a college lectuerer and while some parents really try to get involved ,so just dont give a ****