garage /car/advice re headgasket blown engine.

[Quiff Wichard]

Ok briefly .

mandys 1.2 corsa 07 reg. 70K on clock .

head gasket blew (after daughter was driving and it got too hot called RAC.. man came - in snow and ice .. filled up the water told her continue her journey .. another hour and half.. and head gasket went 10 mins from her destination )

New head and skimmed etc etc £680.

a day later making odd noise - took it back.. said tappetts
had all apart again as one tappet was sticking . put 2 new ones in too.

still no good.

3 days on.. they say engine has had it. ! kaput . as engine bottom dry and had no oil ..

so need new engine.. sourced one £600 local scrap yard form an 09 rear ended... with only 7K on clock.

£600 for new engine and garage want £500 to fit as will service it too. !

so £1100 plus the original £680 for head gasket etc .. nearly £1800 down..


ok get a 7K miles car but questions

mileage on my car stays same> and get receipt showing new engine yes?
6 month warranty on new second hand engine.. that normal.

we just have to suck up the first £680 for head gasket charge when it went back a day later??

£500 to fit engine?


already liaising with RAC etc re their poor service and compensation


but what are your thoughts? experiences? should have just said sod the head gasket and bought the second hand engine.. feel £700 short changed.

can sell on the orig cylinder head I expect and maybe other bits for parts .. ? to recoup some money ..


blloooody cars !

[kiggles]

my GF blown up her head gasket in her car too about 1-2 months ago. But her resolution to the problem was to steal my car and use it instead (not that i have a licence to drive it). so her saxo 1.1 sitting on her drive broken and we are not sure what to do with it, new car or fix it. let me know how it goes.

[dizzyblonde]

£680 for a head gasket...... THATS CHEAP!

our Landy had blews its head gasket a couple of years back and it cost double that!

I love my car :smt049

[andrewsmith]

Quiff
Has the garage said how much labour is involved?

£1100 sounds about right

[martin15s]

About 4-5 years ago, a friend paid 1200 euros - that include a professional head skim and rebuild (pro rata the most expensive part).

[Quiff Wichard]

not told us how much labour yet.. just estimate on the cost,.

it just grates me that we paid £700 for head gasket a week ago and the car ran for a day ...

now that engine is fubar and we need a new one.. why didnt they know last week it was no good and not take us for £700

[dizzyblonde]

About 4-5 years ago, a friend paid 1200 euros - that include a professional head skim and rebuild (pro rata the most expensive part).


This is what we had.....probably why it lasted more than a day unlike poor Quiff.

#must say that quiet......my sods law she'll blow again for fun now#

[Red Herring]

We've just been through all this with my sons 12v Corsa. A week before his test the rad went whilst my wife was driving it. Bless, the first she noticed was when the engine management light came on and it lost power! Got it recovered home by which time it had cooled down a bit so I started it up, and luckily it seemed fine. New Radiator off Ebay was under £40 so two days later all back together. Unfortunately as soon as we started it with water in it threw it all out from behind the water pump. £70 for a new pump (seal at the back had gone) and all ran fine. Did his test in it and passed (thank god) so off he goes with all his mates for an evening out.
Next day it won't start.....and there is no coolant in the header bottle...
I whip the plugs out and all I can see with a torch is water!
Head of and all three pots full of water, guess the head gasket didn't survive then.
Head reskimmed (£50) and a gasket set (£40) plus head/cam bolts (£20) and he's back in action. Obviously gave it some new oil and filters as well. Total cost in the region of £240. First day he gets it all back together and on the road he gets a puncture....! Surely he's due some good luck soon?

[Wideboy]

hang on am i missing something here? were the fook did the oil go after the head gasket replacement? as they claim the sump is dry. I would think a level check would be in order after a tappet was replaced. Was the tappets actually stuck or did they just replace it on a whim?

really dont understand where this oil has gone?

[Red Herring]

When you say "new head and skimmed" what exactly did they do? If it's a "new" head then it wouldn't need skimming, and did it come with all the valves and tappets? If so why are they replacing them?

If the engine was run really hot and effectively cooked then it would almost certainly have been pretty obvious when they had the head off, the cams and followers are usually the first to go. If they put it all back together without putting fresh oil in then they need shooting, something here doesn't add up.

[Quiff Wichard]

1 tappet was stuck. they freed that

2 needed replacing.


meant head gasket when said head.. the head was skimmed and all new bolts used

[Quiff Wichard]

I said to Mandy if engine had been cooked surely they would have known so why take £700 quid off us??? when they should have seen it needed a new engine..

in discussion with RAC to claim off them but might let RAC discuss it with garage to reduce their pay out to us..

or indeed could mand use her legal cover on her insurance? or is that only for accidents etc..

[Red Herring]

£680 is an awful lot of money to take a head off, get it skimmed and put all back together again, did you use a main dealer?

As a guide it took me an hour to get my sons car apart, probably half an hour to strip the head (cams out etc but the valves can stay in), then about three hours to put it all back together as I spent ages getting the cam sensor disc properly timed up, and I didn't have the specialist tools available either. Even if you allowed 6 hours total that's a big bill.

[Quiff Wichard]

thought it was big .. no not main dealer.. usual local garage where taken all my cars and bikes. always seemed honest and good.

[Quiff Wichard]

this is the bill..

<a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/?action=view&amp;current=001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Quiff Wichard]

ha no it aint THIS IS

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/001.jpg

[Quiff Wichard]

Labour and VAT mainly eh

[Red Herring]

Have you tried one of these engine reconditioning outfits. Sometimes they offer a tow in drive out service so you leave you car with them, they then either replace your engine with a reconditioned one or take yours out and recondition that?

Is the £600 engine you've been offered a complete engine with gearbox and ancillaries?

[Quiff Wichard]

this is it... but tis local to us .. so got a better deal.. well Mandy did cos she works that way .


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270889760146#ht_1200wt_1270

[Red Herring]

8 hours work for a Corsa head gasket is ridiculous, If they are going to have the apprentice do it they should at least charge you the appropriate rate. And they have stung you big time for the gasket set and the "Intermediate service", unless they did the whole car ie brakes and such like they only had to change the oil!

[Red Herring]

Does the £500 to fit that engine include everything. They are going to need gaskets and belts, plus if it doesn't come with a clutch and they have to swop yours over you might as well have a new one given it's done 70k

[Quiff Wichard]

I am on a split shift tomorrow so can go talk to the man .. today was on 11 hours straight from half 6 so had littel chance to do anything.

cheers for the advice.. I appreciate it..

[NTECUK]

You had a contract with him to provide a service. If he has failed to provide that service then you can sue him for breach of contract. The difficulty is in proving it.
You need a pro to inspect the engine to argue you case,
Have you approached Citizens Advice.

[Suchy]

You have also been well over charged for a corsa head gasket set. I also agree that 8 hours labour is extreme. All I can compare it to is a 1.4 rover engine though and only a diy mechanic and a handy Haynes manual.

[mister c]

Says on the receipt "intermediate service". Surely that means checking plugs, oil, filter etc? If there was no oil 2 days later I would start to ask questions

[NTECUK]

If you hear of anyone else wanting to do a simuler job use this set.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UPRATED-HEAD-GASKET-SET-BOLTS-KITS-VAUXHALL-CORSA-1196CC-C12NZ-OHC-90-93-/110771352486?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19ca7cb3a6

[NTECUK]

If you have a.major overheat, the piston rings go soft .add to that the action that coolant removes the carbon build up contributes to oil control ,it can soon empty a small sump.

[markc123]

The noisy tappets are often a symptom of not enough oil or oil pressure. That should set alarm bells ringing, and the car should have been carefully checked for leaks and level. Intermediate service on the invoice suggests new oil and filters were fitted at the head gasket repair.

The head gasket has oil ways in it that feed the oil to the valve gear - fitting one backwards (or the wrong one) has been known to happen and could cause oil starvation to the head, which fits the symptoms.
Did they tell you how bad the head was? Did they need to skim much, did they check the block deck was flat?

Costs seem expensive, but its a job I DIY anyway.

[Quiff Wichard]

Wish I had tried do it myself now ! I do all the plugs and oil and filters myself and all the bike .. Am pretty handy but thought this was too big a job

[Wideboy]

You got well stung for the gasket mate, pretty sure I didn't pay over 30 quid for the last one I bought and that was at retail and as misterc said if it was serviced and the head fixed where did the oil go?

Chances are he uses your closest parts dealer so get a price off them before you go back and question him, or find out where he shops, £120 for a gasket is crazy

[markc123]

Wideboy - Depending on the engine, a gasket kit might include new head bolts, belt tensioners etc.

[Wideboy]

Head bolts are itemized separately. Cam tentioner would come in a cam set, regardless of that I've bought all of that separately and its still not come to 120 quid. It is a vauxhall after all

I Duno maybe I just shop at a cheaper place :smt102 nothing of mine goes near a garage only mine for the exact point that quiff has raised. You never know what they've done/doing, what crap they putting on your vehicle and if they've done it properly. Always worth investing in tools and your own time

[markc123]

Yep rather know its done right, the last one I did was a MK3 Granada with the twin cam. That needed bolts etc, but I think it cost me £130 for everything including a skim. Oh and a fair few hours work :-)

[Quiff Wichard]

thats the thing see- if you factor in your own labour then it aint so cheap..

I was there having my car MOT when the head gasket for mands came in..I saw it and it was a special name or something.. quality one he said..

going to see him in a bit .. so all will be revealed.. the last week he has had the car and looked at it and tappets etc he says he can lose that labour... and can get refunded on the items he used.. so he wont charge .. ta ... but we wont get any of our £670 for the head gasket back ? that didnt solve the issue. so me a bit perplexed

to me it should have come out mended... and yet it was worse and has cost us another £1100

[AndyBrad]

ive just sold our lasses astra because the headgasekt went and the kit for that was about 120 quid!! the head gasket alone is 50 off then manifold gaskets and the such. most places were quoting 600+ for it fixing so swapped it for a corsa!

if youve taken it in to get the head gasket fixed and a service it should come out fixed. theyve charged you for something and youve not got it. Its like saying ill have a quarter pounder please and then giving you it uncooked.

[maviczap]

I had the head gasket go on my cavalier once and it cost £400 to get it done. Quite a few years ago, so I don't think that your price is too extreme, but mine was skimmed and I never had any further issues.

But if it went wrong like yours I'd be straight back to the garage to know why. I'd also take i to another garage/or RAC inspector to get a statement of what caused it to go wrong after getting fixed.

If the garage is at fault, then perhaps the small claims court could help you out?

[454697819]

not told us how much labour yet.. just estimate on the cost,.

it just grates me that we paid £700 for head gasket a week ago and the car ran for a day ...

now that engine is fubar and we need a new one.. why didnt they know last week it was no good and not take us for £700

sorry but if the garaged changed the head, they will have had to drain the oil, ot at least check it, feck em off and get your money back, and the AA, ffs.. bunch of numpties.

[NTECUK]

sorry but if the garaged changed the head, they will have had to drain the oil, ot at least check it, feck em off and get your money back, and the AA, ffs.. bunch of numpties.

It list a service in the itemised invoice

[NTECUK]

oh if you need a hand swooping the lump these guys have simauler skills to the garage
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tcmag.com%2Fmagazine%2Fho w_to_remove_a_car_engine_like_a_boss%2F&h=mAQFmvVFlAQGpyKziqv0t4vfIKdb5Qz8omqPDhTWX_jT2Lw

[fizzwheel]

to me it should have come out mended... and yet it was worse and has cost us another £1100

Agreed it should have, sounds quite simply to me that the garage havent diagnosed the fault properly. Or that the engine had two faults, the fixed one and then found the 2nd one.

Maybe it did need a new head gasket, but theres no way of telling that now...

Its all very well you guys who say "should have done it yourself" but thats only an option if you have the time, space and tools to be able to do that. Who is to say that you'd have done what the garage might have done i.e. replaced the head gasket and then found another problem you werent aware of because the head gasket issue was masking it.

Have you been back to the garage yet, what did they say ?

[NTECUK]

Don't prat about .
Citerzens advice .
Tell them ,
Re emburse the money or small claims court.

[Quiff Wichard]

**** update***

got new engine from scrappers.. £700 for a 9000 mile engine..

£529 for it to be fitted.. with all bells n whistles n oil etc etc..

now runs like a dream.. like a different car completely..

however.

we are £1700 out of pocket.. either garages fault or the RAC fault..

claim with RAC still ongoing..they asked for a certain receipt yesterday so they are not dismissing me out of hand.

will keep you posted.

[Dave20046]

have you googled the garage quiff to see if other people have had problems? Might help settle your mind.

goodluck getting the dough back

[Quiff Wichard]

I havent mate ..I will now..


I use that garage all the time to be fair.. I just wondered if it was standard practice to still be charged for head gasket bla bla if new engine needed a day after..

he aint charged us for the faffing around for a week with the engine to find out what it was.. and he can send the bits back he ordered,, AND he says the cylinder head is ours he will box it up and we can sell it on.. I am awaiting that cos by rights itsthe RAC's if they cough up I suppose..

but the bottom end.. he says he will skip.. thats mine too could I not weigh it in or is it worthless??

[Dave20046]

It all sounds a bit complicated, if he's a genuine guy and it wasn't his fault then it's no doubt a headache for him too - worth just checking out he's no history of ripping people off I guess. As long as it ain't Dace motor company in stockport/cheshire then afraid I'm not much help :(

Depends how much it weighs :)

[Bluefish]

Depends how much it weighs :)
Worth a fiver tenner tops, not worth the trouble on it's own.

[Quiff Wichard]

ahhh cheers Blue..

I thought i mighta been gettin ripped off like when the plumber sdaid he would get rid of my copper tank and I since found out they worth about £80

[Bluefish]

yeah copper/brass worth a lot more, they are well worth keeping hold of.

[andrewsmith]

scrap it!
Most internals are steel and castings are Aluminium

[Quiff Wichard]

well picked up the cylinder head today off the original engine.. which is still ours see..

so whats that worth?

Corsa D - new shape .. 56 plate 68K miles..

I have pics

[Quiff Wichard]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/IMG_30851.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/IMG_30861.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/IMG_30841.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/IMG_30831.jpg

[yorkie_chris]

How many miles in the day or whatever it lasted where all the oil supposedly evaporated?

[Quiff Wichard]

about 5 .. home and back when it was knocking..he says the cylinder head is fine

[Red Herring]

Stick it on Ebay and see what you get, alternatively make a coffee table out of it....

[andrewsmith]

about 5 .. home and back when it was knocking..he says the cylinder head is fine

Sounds like there been no oil in the motor

[yorkie_chris]

Exactly, that's ridiculous, if it had burnt that much oil in 5 miles then you'd have been leaving a right smokescreen.

If the sump was dry I suggest they drained the oil because it had water contamination and forgot to put more back in.

[NTECUK]

I sounds like that Chris.
Have you got the bottom end of the motor.
A look ft the crank . The bearings etc is needed.make sure you keep them in line .it helps identify if its lack of oil or wear.
If the main.damage if the one colsest to the oil supply then it sugests low - no oil

[Quiff Wichard]

not got bottom of motor - garage man says it was fubar and he skipped it..

its all very perplexing to a none mechanic like me.. just cant understand why we paid £700 for a head gasket and a day after out of the garage it went wrong and he says the engine is knackered and we spent another £1300 on a new engine and fitting.

[Quiff Wichard]

but RAc saying if was thicker semi synthetic in a vauxhall then that could block up the oil channels and the oil pump or something.

Mandy just wants to write it off and put it down to experience but me not happy

[dizzyblonde]

If its any consolation my bro had a similar arguement with his local garage when he had some big repair job on his Peugot.

Now, can anyone tell me, how on earth an engine can catch fire within a couple miles of leaving the garage?

Answer, from the garage, someone must have flicked a cigarette in there:shaking:


Next question.....can anyone tell me how the hell a cigarette can be flicked under a car bonnet whilst on the move, and more to the point how can a garage accuse the driver whilst behind the wheel of doing so, when he is a non smoker?

[Bluefish]

but RAc saying if was thicker semi synthetic in a vauxhall then that could block up the oil channels and the oil pump or something.

Mandy just wants to write it off and put it down to experience but me not happy

In five miles, seriously doubt it.

[yorkie_chris]

but RAc saying if was thicker semi synthetic in a vauxhall then that could block up the oil channels and the oil pump or something.

Mandy just wants to write it off and put it down to experience but me not happy

So why was it not still in the sump?

[NTECUK]

There are all different grades of oil.
You can look at the speck of the oil you were using ,compare it to what the manufacture recomends
have a look at this comment
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=55445
And to help you have a look at this to get some background on oils
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=8264018&contentId=6003233

[fizzwheel]

Mandy just wants to write it off and put it down to experience but me not happy

Which is easier,

Letting it go and putting it down to experience or just bad luck

Getting more and more wound up as the garage and the RAC fob you off and you spend hours and hours putting time and energy into something that just ends up wearing you out of making you feel fedup.

It would depend for me on whether I actually thought that the garage or the RAC were going to cough up and how much pressure I had to put on either party to admit that they had made a mistake...

I know £1700 to me would be a lot of money, so its easier for me to say the above than it would be for me to do it...

[Quiff Wichard]

hee hee - good advice Fizz but it's me were talking about .

I get wound up if one of my spanners isnt in the right place at the right angle..

[NTECUK]

Did you or a representative contact the rac.
You need to properly.draft a letter.
State what happened.that you were advised by there agent to continue your journy.
This advice was wrong. The.car should have been recovered.
THe oil is bulli**** baffles brains terrytory.
And you didn't put the oil in the garage did.
Get on to BBC make a good program .
The org sorts it out.

[Quiff Wichard]

RAC and myself are in correspondence and have been from the outset

[NTECUK]

What You should try for is a contribution to your outlay. if you can hand on hart send somthin like this your in good stead:-
Dear sir ,
In regards of Vaxhall Corsa Reg?????
When driving allong the +++++ We noticed the engine was too hot .
We called for help and were attended at Date time.Reff number on there sheet they give you.

The attending technician assessed the vehicle ,and determined it had become low on coolant.
They refiled the coolant and advised us to continue our journey.
This we did but unfortunaly the car failed again.
The car was recovered to a local garage were after extensive inspection and substitution of several expensive components .Its was discovered that the engine had suffered catastrophic failler of(insert what part ie main ,big end bearings ).
It is the considered opinion of the technician i have spoken too that this failler was directly related to the overheating issue and that we should have been advised to have the car recovered or at best only drive a very short distance to a local garage to carry out repairs.

I therefore feel as we were given the wrong advice, that yourselves should in part contribute to the cost of the remedial work.
YF etc

[Quiff Wichard]

Fanks