SV won't start

[allantheboss]

Cliche topic? Not yet!

I recently bought a K6 SV650S, 115k miles. It's in good nick but I haven't been able to start it since I got it. I've changed the spark plugs, battery is good and keeps churning but it just doesn't fire-up. Only things I'm aware that are left to do to it service-wise are oil and filter changes, and possible a valve clearance check. I get a very faint smell of petrol (I THINK, but I have a poor sense of smell) after about 10 seconds of trying (If this actually means anything other than gas from the exhaust).

Any ideas? I've done a short search on the forum already for answers, but if I missed a helpful thread, please link-me-up!
I am very amateur so please speak simply. I don't care for your help if you're going to be a patronising, there are plenty enough helpful, kind people on here for me to cope without you.

Merci in advance brethren!

[Jackie_Black]

It's not the classic kill switch in the kill position is it?

[Runako]

This probably won't be the answer but I once spent the whole day hunting down a problem that didn't exist when I couldn't start my SV. The problem was the clutch lever/cable on my K9, which was too loose. So my little bit of advice is work through the most simple, obvious solutions first before doing anything else.

Good luck! (p.s. You'll have some more "proper" suggestions in no time).

[allantheboss]

Someone just suggested to me that it may be engine flooding? If so, how to I assess this and how do I rid of it?

[allantheboss]

This probably won't be the answer but I once spent the whole day hunting down a problem that didn't exist when I couldn't start my SV. The problem was the clutch lever/cable on my K9, which was too loose. So my little bit of advice is work through the most simple, obvious solutions first before doing anything else.

Good luck! (p.s. You'll have some more "proper" suggestions in no time).

Last time I rode it, clutch was fine. Could it have deranged alone whilst sat, turned off?

[Runako]

No, its unlikely. I had adjusted my levers a few days before and not done it properly. There are posts on the forum about flooding the engine & other related posts such as this thread (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=149169&highlight=engine+flooded). Hope it helps.

[Sid Squid]

You need to be methodical when finding a fault like this, the engine needs three things to make it run:

1) Mechanical integrity, that is; the various parts of engine move relative to each other as they should and fit together well enough, as you say the engine turns over well we can at first consider that that part is OK.
2) Fuel supplied to the cylinder in something like the right amount, you say that you can smell some fuel, so for the moment we'll also consider that to be working.
Which leads us to:
3) A spark, at something like the right point in the cycle to set fire to the fuel mixture.

As you mention no pops or farts or any other combustion like onomatopoeia, which, even if it occurs at the wrong time, will cause some sort of bang noise, however poor, that's where you should start.

You've taken the old pugs out so clean one and pull an HT lead off whichever plug you find the most convenient, connect your plug to that and touch the body of the plug against a clean metal parts of the engine and hold it there with a pair of insulated pliers, (if you're not certain of the quality of contact wrap a length of wire around the body of the plug, and put the other end under a convenient bolt head somewhere on the engine so it's well connected), whatever you do don't hold it in your hand - that can hurt.
Turn the engine over with the starter, is there a nice fat blue spark, is there any spark at all?

I think we should be told.

[allantheboss]

You need to be methodical when finding a fault like this, the engine needs three things to make it run:

1) Mechanical integrity, that is; the various parts of engine move relative to each other as they should and fit together well enough, as you say the engine turns over well we can at first consider that that part is OK.
2) Fuel supplied to the cylinder in something like the right amount, you say that you can smell some fuel, so for the moment we'll also consider that to be working.
Which leads us to:
3) A spark, at something like the right point in the cycle to set fire to the fuel mixture.

As you mention no pops or farts or any other combustion like onomatopoeia, which, even if it occurs at the wrong time, will cause some sort of bang noise, however poor, that's where you should start.

You've taken the old pugs out so clean one and pull an HT lead off whichever plug you find the most convenient, connect your plug to that and touch the body of the plug against a clean metal parts of the engine and hold it there with a pair of insulated pliers, (if you're not certain of the quality of contact wrap a length of wire around the body of the plug, and put the other end under a convenient bolt head somewhere on the engine so it's well connected), whatever you do don't hold it in your hand - that can hurt.
Turn the engine over with the starter, is there a nice fat blue spark, is there any spark at all?

I think we should be told.

Sid- are you a mechanics robot sent from the future to help n00bs of the past from dire issues, under a guise of a compassionate human? Like Terminator but with more intelligent things to say?

[allantheboss]

I actually just read about that spark-checking trick elsewhere. I will do that now and report back alpha leader. Red-1 over and out.

[allantheboss]

Blue sparks ahoy on the rear plug. Some visible faintly-petrol-smelling fumes came out of the cylinder spark plug hole with each turn (I don't know if that's normal).

[allantheboss]

Where can there be water in the system, and how do I drain it out? I haven't ridden the bike in the rain but it's been under some, sat outside. The front spark plug wasn't wet when I took it out so I don't think there's any water there. Maybe some in the engine? Is it possible to drain the cylinders? How would I do that if it's plausible?

[MJC-DEV]

Does the fuel injection pump run when the ignition is swithed on? May be worth draining the fuel system and tank and filling with fresh fuel. Would be userful to have some history such as how long since the bike last ran, how long sat in the street etc. Any maintence work since it last ran etc in case a connector or sensor has been disturbed.

[allantheboss]

About 1.5-2 weeks since last ran, and last worked. Been sat outside since then through some rain. Changed spark plugs and topped up coolant since then but the same problem existed beforehand.

I will drain the fuel if nobody else suggests something. How would I do this?

[Sid Squid]

Sid- are you a mechanics robot sent from the future to help n00bs of the past from dire issues, under a guise of a compassionate human? Like Terminator but with more intelligent things to say?
Have we met? Apart from the fact that I'm shorter, fatter, balder and not made of metal, we're exactly the same me and the Terminator! I strongly resent the suggestion I've ever said anything intelligent - there's no need for that sort of talk when I'm trying to help you!

You got a car and some jump leads? Give that a whirl - FI bikes can sometimes turn over well enough, but not have enough voltage to fire up. Not common - but possible. If it ran OK a couple of weeks ago it's possible that nothing is wrong as such, but poor battery and not being used for a little while can conspire against it running.

[allantheboss]

No! You got it wrong, "like the Terminator, BUT with MORE intelligent things to say"- it's still a compliment! Of course I wouldn't diss the don himself. All the Terminator says is "Hasta la vista, baby" as far as I'm aware, and that is a pretty poor attempt at either language he may be trying to use IMO.

[allantheboss]

No jump leads but I have tried with a completely charged battery and whilst it's still plugged into the optimate.

Where can there be water in the system, and how do I drain it out? I haven't ridden the bike in the rain but it's been under some, sat outside. The front spark plug wasn't wet when I took it out so I don't think there's any water there. Maybe some in the engine? Is it possible to drain the cylinders? How would I do that if it's plausible?

If that doesn't work I'll try asking the neighbours for some jump leads.

[allantheboss]

Bumpity

[SoulKiss]

Cliche topic? Not yet!

I recently bought a K6 SV650S, 115k miles. It's in good nick but I haven't been able to start it since I got it. I've changed the spark plugs, battery is good and keeps churning but it just doesn't fire-up. Only things I'm aware that are left to do to it service-wise are oil and filter changes, and possible a valve clearance check. I get a very faint smell of petrol (I THINK, but I have a poor sense of smell) after about 10 seconds of trying (If this actually means anything other than gas from the exhaust).

Any ideas? I've done a short search on the forum already for answers, but if I missed a helpful thread, please link-me-up!
I am very amateur so please speak simply. I don't care for your help if you're going to be a patronising, there are plenty enough helpful, kind people on here for me to cope without you.

Merci in advance brethren!

I had this on my K6 this morning - hadn't moved for about 3 months since I got back on my Zed.

Turned and turned, no fire, I jiggled the throttle and eventually it fired up - it didnt hurt that in preparation I had Optimated the battery yesterday.

[allantheboss]

No luck :(

[monkey]

Get water being a problem out of your head. If water is a problem it'll be from the fuel tank. Assuming you have a few litres of petrol in the tank I think that can be ruled out for now. If you're unaware of what flooding is then google it. It's basically when too much fuel is in the cylinder for enough air to mix with it and enable good combustion. Afaik FI bikes aren't easy to flood.

It might be worth you checking the other plug/s for sparks. You may have four plugs on yours, I'm not sure what year they went to four.

Also before you do that it's worth trying some jump leads if you can borrow them and you have a car. It's very possible that the battery is still not holding enough charge to start it. Also check the battery connections are tight and are in good nick.

[monkey]

Btw if the petrol smells like petrol and the bike has been used in the last year it's probably ok.

Also if you are going to check all of the plugs make sure the leads go back to the same plug hole if they have to come off.

[allantheboss]

Get water being a problem out of your head. If water is a problem it'll be from the fuel tank. Assuming you have a few litres of petrol in the tank I think that can be ruled out for now. If you're unaware of what flooding is then google it. It's basically when too much fuel is in the cylinder for enough air to mix with it and enable good combustion. Afaik FI bikes aren't easy to flood.

It might be worth you checking the other plug/s for sparks. You may have four plugs on yours, I'm not sure what year they went to four.

Also before you do that it's worth trying some jump leads if you can borrow them and you have a car. It's very possible that the battery is still not holding enough charge to start it. Also check the battery connections are tight and are in good nick.

K7 became 4 spark plugs, so that's not me. I've already researched flooding, but A) didn't want to rule it out despite it's FI and B) would like the knowledge of how to sort it anyway. Sorry for the inconvenience. I thought it would still be interesting to check, so my questions regarding how to resolve water in the fuel and a flooded cylinder still remain.

Btw if the petrol smells like petrol and the bike has been used in the last year it's probably ok.

Also if you are going to check all of the plugs make sure the leads go back to the same plug hole if they have to come off.

Ok, I'm alright then. Thanks!

[2F45T4U]

is the fuel pump priming when the ignition is turned on?
What state are the plugs coming out in after a period of non start cranking? wet (fuel) dry?

you already have a spark. Assuming the timing hasn't have changed since it last ran: remove each plug, pour a teaspoon or 2 of clean fuel down the plug hole and go for a start, if it fires and chuffes over a few seconds then the issue is injection related ie fuel pressure/injectors etc. whatever it is, it seems common to both cylinders.

if it doesnt start then its very odd and its time to start checking spark/valve timing and compression.

i know its probably been said, but there IS deffinately fuel in the tank?

[allantheboss]

is the fuel pump priming when the ignition is turned on?
What state are the plugs coming out in after a period of non start cranking? wet (fuel) dry?

you already have a spark. Assuming the timing hasn't have changed since it last ran: remove each plug, pour a teaspoon or 2 of clean fuel down the plug hole and go for a start, if it fires and chuffes over a few seconds then the issue is injection related ie fuel pressure/injectors etc. whatever it is, it seems common to both cylinders.

if it doesnt start then its very odd and its time to start checking spark/valve timing and compression.

i know its probably been said, but there IS deffinately fuel in the tank?

What is "fuel pump priming"?
The spark plugs I took out were dry after trying to start it.
What is "chuffing over"?

[SoulKiss]

What is "fuel pump priming"?
The spark plugs I took out were dry after trying to start it.
What is "chuffing over"?

When you turn the ignition on is there "whining" type noise from the right hand below the tank?

Thats the Fuel Pump priming

[allantheboss]

If the sound lasts about 2 seconds, I know what you mean, and yes, it is priming.

[Winder]

Being a pointy and having fuel injection does it have a lot of sensors and voodoo that can stop the bike starting if something has worked its way loose? I don't know anything about the 2nd gen SV but a friend of mine had a sensor fail on his GSXR, was fine until he turned the ignition off.
All I'm suggesting is that if all else fails get someone with the diagnostic software and plug it up and check for any fault codes

[MJC-DEV]

Had my K6 failed to start this morning, spins but didn't fire. Suspected it was flooded (fiddled with at weekend) and yep, usual flooded engine clearing procedure worked a treat with FI engine. Fired up in no time after a big pop from the exhaust.
Procedure is open throttle full and press starter, close throttle rapidly when it fires to avoid over-reving

[2F45T4U]

if the plugs are coming out dry, its very unlikely its flooding

you need to try running it with fuel down the plug hole and then decide what course to take from there.

there are only 2 sensors that would fail and prevent the engine running- crank position sensor, (which must work as there is a spark)
tip-over sensor would kill the spark and injectors and fuel pump (2 of which we know work)


Are you certain there is fuel in the tank?

are you getting the 'CHEC' display when you try and start it?

[Messie]

Given that it's now 2 days since OP last posted, what's the betting it was the killswitch after all?

;)

[monkey]

I'll take that bet. 10:1 in your favour.

[allantheboss]

if the plugs are coming out dry, its very unlikely its flooding

you need to try running it with fuel down the plug hole and then decide what course to take from there.

there are only 2 sensors that would fail and prevent the engine running- crank position sensor, (which must work as there is a spark)
tip-over sensor would kill the spark and injectors and fuel pump (2 of which we know work)


Are you certain there is fuel in the tank?

are you getting the 'CHEC' display when you try and start it?

Definitely fuel in the tank. Will try the fuel thing ASAP. No CHEC display. Checked the plugs again, still dry.

Given that it's now 2 days since OP last posted, what's the betting it was the killswitch after all?

;)

HUZAAR! You fail! Killswitch was checked and is not active! :smt019

I'll take that bet. 10:1 in your favour.

I'll take that bet!

[monkey]

Alan please put your top on.

[davepreston]

Alan please put your top on.
well said that man

usless you eyeing a part in philladelpia or a extra in the next 2nd world war belsin movie

[allantheboss]

It lives! I changed the oil, filled petrol to the brim, checked all the fuses and some connections, charged battery 100%, checked plugs again, turned killswtich off (NOT!). Was about to give up trying then- BOOM I'M AN SV, YOU CAN'T STOP ME brum brum brum.

Still don't know what the big problem was. Might not start tomorrow morn for all I know. I will order a new battery tonight (it's had the same one for 115,000 miles I believe), and hereby extend another grateful applause to the kind altruists this wonder website of mystery and mechanical misery has to offer. Much love brethren, I'll surely be back soon.

*Cyber hi-5*

[allantheboss]

Alan please put your top on.

well said that man

usless you eyeing a part in philladelpia or a extra in the next 2nd world war belsin movie

Do my nipples disturb you?

[Messie]

They disturb me ;)

[monkey]

Bloody hell 115 000 miles?! I didn't read the original post properly.

[2F45T4U]

i think there wasnt enough fuel in the tank.

at least its running now.

[allantheboss]

i think there wasnt enough fuel in the tank.

at least its running now.

Only took a couple of litres to fill it.

[Geodude]

Alan please put your top on.
+1 haha or replace your avatar with a pic of that lovely lady of yours :p;) glad you got the sv going :D