Front end slipping?

[bigchris]

Hi all

Just a quick question

When cornering and just going past my comfort lean angle, the front end feels like it moves to the outside of the corner, as if the tyre slips but just for a split second??

This has happened a few times now and is really knocking my confidence.

Could the forks be compressing all of a sudden due to the force generated or is it more than likely traction loss??

My suspension is sorted and set up correctly and tyre pressures are good.

The bike corners like its on rails up to a certain lean angle. Going past it though something dosnt feel right.

Sorry if the info I've given is a bit vague.

Hopefully someone else has experienced this or...... It's all in my head!!!

Cheers!!


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[21QUEST]

Have you got the rear end raised or the front end dropped?

[bigchris]

No, it's all as standard?


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[Dave20046]

Hi all

Just a quick question

When cornering and just going past my comfort lean angle, the front end feels like it moves to the outside of the corner, as if the tyre slips but just for a split second??

This has happened a few times now and is really knocking my confidence.

Could the forks be compressing all of a sudden due to the force generated or is it more than likely traction loss??

My suspension is sorted and set up correctly and tyre pressures are good.

The bike corners like its on rails up to a certain lean angle. Going past it though something dosnt feel right.

Sorry if the info I've given is a bit vague.

Hopefully someone else has experienced this or...... It's all in my head!!!

Cheers!!


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434877,-1.463366

I've experienced this (funnily enough on my old yellow naked curvy) I put it down to the tyres I was riding - disappeared after fitting avon storms

[Elliott]

Sounds like your riding on the bead of the tyre?

Have a look at your chicken strips on the front and rear tyre. Have a look at how much of the tyre is unused.
Otherwise if theres no problem there it'll be the forks pushing out mid corner.

[bigchris]

I've experienced this (funnily enough on my old yellow naked curvy) I put it down to the tyres I was riding - disappeared after fitting avon storms

I was thinking maybe it was the tyres but I've had the same thing happen with battalax bt021,s and now sportsmarts.


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[bigchris]

Sounds like your riding on the bead of the tyre?

Have a look at your chicken strips on the front and rear tyre. Have a look at how much of the tyre is unused.
Otherwise if theres no problem there it'll be the forks pushing out mid corner.

There's plenty of chicken strip left ( 3/4 inch!! )
Is the forks pushing out mid corner normal? It just feels wrong to me!


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[Runako]

I would say suspension first. Mine does this but I know exactly why. If tip in/turn in is good then it could be the suspension not tracking the road properly. I'm by no means a suspension specialist but I intend to sort out both front and back then have them professionally set up. I know you said your susp is sorted but has it been set properly?

[Elliott]

As you go round a corner, and lean more than is needed. Your bike is no longer being pushed into the ground as much taking weight of the front end ever so slightly, however just enough to upset the bike. It can also happen as you twist the throttle as the back digs down. To determin it straight away go round the same corner, at the same speed but have the clutch in, if it still does it then your either tipped over way to far for the corner or the front sus is playing silly buggers

[Dave20046]

There's plenty of chicken strip left ( 3/4 inch!! )
Is the forks pushing out mid corner normal? It just feels wrong to me!


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These were sportmax's D208r IIRC next time you're due some tyres give another brand a go...just out of interest

[21QUEST]

If it's indeed loss of traction(pushing), could be due to either too much or too little damping.

Not being relaxed enough(from going past 'comfort lean angle, as you put it)could have a hand in that too.

Inproperly adjusted/shagged steering head bearings can also do funny things to bikes, before/after certain lean angles.

Be absolutely sure,(I know it sounds a silly one )[1] you are staying relaxed as you past the 'comfort zone'

Also, it could be tyres(profile) having a hand in making you not stay as relaxed as could be. Again, personally, I prefer a neutral(more rounded) profile. I can ride anything available but if I had a chloice, the above is what I'd choose.


[1] I prefer right handers and even after so many years on the bike, I sometimes still have to consciously tell myself to stay loose/elbows out etc

[Runako]

There's plenty of chicken strip left ( 3/4 inch!! )
Is the forks pushing out mid corner normal? It just feels wrong to me!


Throttle control, good throttle control, should stop pushing mid-corner. Its easy to go in with too little throttle and then give it some more mid corner to get it round, but that will unsettle suspension. You can try to put more weight over the front (i.e. lean and get your nuts forward against the tank puts more weight over the front wheel) or maintain a constant throttle through the corner. But I still say make sure your suspension is set up.

[Winder]

Smoothly does it. If you bang open the throttle or come off the throttle while Leaned over you will disrupt the weighting of the bike and end up with a lighter front end or more compressed front end. Select the correct gear for the corner and don't roll on until exiting the corner.
Does it still happen?
When learning to get the knee down I found when I felt slightly out of my comfort zone I rolled off the throttle a bit as an automatic reaction, then I'd realise I'd done it and get back on the throttle. Bout as smooth as a badgers chuff I was.

[NTECUK]

We talking dry roads?
If its so and your past your comfort zone ask your self this.
Why am I pushing it ?
If you say you have plenty of tyre left its either suspension , or your looking at the edge of the corner . That will drag you in like a tractor beam .
Get the bike looked at .IF It's fine get a track day and tuition.

[Bibio]

oooorrrr it could just be a simple case of you are running into your chicken strip which you have never ridden on before which will make the front feel strange while that part of the tyre scrubs in.

[Sid Squid]

Sounds more like improper throttle control. You said it yourself - you're past your comfort level, I suspect you're not rolling the throttle in more to counter the radius drop off the centre of the tyre.

[hardhat_harry]

Sounds like square back tyre to me

[NTECUK]

When I got my Sv with a square tyre ,it felt it tipped or over steared.
Pop up a pic of both front and rear.

[bigchris]

When I got my Sv with a square tyre ,it felt it tipped or over steared.
Pop up a pic of both front and rear.

Will do later on


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[bigchris]

Cheers for everyone's advice by the way. I'm taking it all in :-)
I will post some pictures of me tyres up later on today ( no laughing at the chicken strips!!! ;-)


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[barwel1992]

I used to get this mine was to much comp dampening at the front and to little at the back

Ps do you lean off when cornering ? If I sat up on the sv and pushed it in the bends it felt very squirmy if I leant off a bit it wouldnt happen

[bigchris]

I used to get this mine was to much comp dampening at the front and to little at the back

Ps do you lean off when cornering ? If I sat up on the sv and pushed it in the bends it felt very squirmy if I leant off a bit it wouldnt happen

I sit up, allthough if I hang off a little bit everything feels a lot more stable


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[Elliott]

You sit up right, whilst cranked over? Hmmmm best advice hang alittle off you'll need to lean over less as you CG is lower and you'll find you can take corners alot smoother.

[bigchris]

You sit up right, whilst cranked over? Hmmmm best advice hang alittle off you'll need to lean over less as you CG is lower and you'll find you can take corners alot smoother.

Well not bolt upright but I don't get my knee down if you know what I mean.


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[bigchris]

http://img.tapatalk.com/5ad788e5-a7b3-b59c.jpg

Back

http://img.tapatalk.com/5ad788e5-a7d0-2aae.jpg

Front


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[maviczap]

This was a common trait on my curvy, at first I put it down to the horrible Metzeler Z4 front and rear. The front would suddenly let go and slide away from me. I changed these for Metzeler Z6's, don't know why, I opted for the same brand, which gave me brown trouser moments, but since I've had them they are a great tyre.

But even so, I still got the feeling that the front was going to let go, but better grip with the Z6's.

So next I changed the front springs to Hargon progressives and fork oil to 15w. Much better, maybe a bit harsh with 15w oil for my weight, 10w would have been better.

But the biggest improvement was when I swapped to the GSXR front end, no feeling of slipping away ever, i've had no moments since doing this.

If it were mine, I'd buy emulators, get the damper rod holes brazed over, linear springs and fork oil to suit your weight, as a cheaper option to doing the front end swap.

[bigchris]

This was a common trait on my curvy, at first I put it down to the horrible Metzeler Z4 front and rear. The front would suddenly let go and slide away from me. I changed these for Metzeler Z6's, don't know why, I opted for the same brand, which gave me brown trouser moments, but since I've had them they are a great tyre.

But even so, I still got the feeling that the front was going to let go, but better grip with the Z6's.

So next I changed the front springs to Hargon progressives and fork oil to 15w. Much better, maybe a bit harsh with 15w oil for my weight, 10w would have been better.

But the biggest improvement was when I swapped to the GSXR front end, no feeling of slipping away ever, i've had no moments since doing this.

If it were mine, I'd buy emulators, get the damper rod holes brazed over, linear springs and fork oil to suit your weight, as a cheaper option to doing the front end swap.

Cheers for the advice but my forks already have 9.5 k tech springs, 15w oil and the debrix emulators.

Also I've had the same with bt021,s and now sport smarts!!!

It's really annoying ( and brown trousering ) as I'll be having a great ride and then the front gives a little twitch and from then on my confidence is shattered.


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[maviczap]

Cheers for the advice but my forks already have 9.5 k tech springs, 15w oil and the debrix emulators.

Also I've had the same with bt021,s and now sport smarts!!!

It's really annoying ( and brown trousering ) as I'll be having a great ride and then the front gives a little twitch and from then on my confidence is shattered.
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.434996,-1.463366

Bugger :(

I know exactly how that used to feel.

[Dave20046]

tyres look fine to me, not sure you can do compression damping adjustment on the standard forks but I could be wrong, I don't sport them.

[NTECUK]

Your tyres fine.
Your have to get used to moveing about on the bike.
With the suspension your only ways to stiffen its damping is change the oil.get a copy of twist of the wrist 2. Then book a track day and put it into practice.

[Runako]

Mate, before you do anything else, take the bike to a shop and get the suspension set up. If I'm right, its not the suspension components but the suspension balance.

Here is a little excerpt from this website - http://www.gostar-racing.com/information/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm

"One critical area where you want your front rebound to work well is through them corners and turns. As you fly down the road and brake before or into the corner, the front suspension compresses, then as you let go of the brakes, the front wheel will rebound fully. You do not want your front end to sit up too quickly especially mid corner. It does not matter whether you brake before the turn but this is more critical if you brake into the turn.

SOFT: If it rebounds too quickly in the corner your bike will sit up very quickly creating a longer wheel base. The front wheel “shooting” out also causes the bike to drift wide or a feeling of the front end “washing out” If this happens, increase (harden) your rebound to slow the rate the front wheel rebounds.

HARD: On the other hand if the rebound is too hard, when you let go of the brakes and on to the throttle in a corner, because the wheel is compressed for longer you will have a shorter wheel base for longer. This may cause the bike to feel wooden in the corner and turn too quickly. Soften her up.

To set up your front rebound damping you are going to have to go through a few corners a few times and it is best that you have sorted out the preload and front compression first. Basically you want to be able to brake hard either before the turn or up to the apex of the turn, (whichever suits you) let go of the brakes get on to the throttle without the bike “see-sawing” i.e. sit up or dive by adjusting only the rebound damping only (remember that we have sorted the compression so don’t mess it up.)"

[ChrisCurvyS]

Would echo what others have said about nerves getting the better of you and causing you to unsettle the bike by dropping speed mid-corner etc - I'm just getting through that myself.

Cambers can also have this effect, as can seams, scars in the tarmac etc. Kept thinking a certain roundabout near me always had diesel on it as the bike always felt like it was slipping, until I realised it had a bizarre raised rump running around the middle of the lane in a ring.

[flymo]

tyres look fine to me, not sure you can do compression damping adjustment on the standard forks but I could be wrong, I don't sport them.

Not as standard, you're right. But with emulators fitted you can. Compression damping can be adjusted directly with the adjuster on top of the emulator (or by replacing its spring depending on the type of adjustment needed), rebound damping can be adjusted by changing fluid viscosity (which also requires that the rebound be adjusted again).

[NTECUK]

Let's not over complecate what is a road setup.
Hongman could scrape the pegs on his standard suspension .

[flymo]

All depends how the suspension is setup, even fantastic suspension components can be adjusted to run like crap.

[Sid Squid]

All depends how the suspension is setup, even fantastic suspension components can be adjusted to run like crap.
And very commonly are.

[hongman]

I was going to say squared tyres but they look fine to me also.

After installing all the suspension components have you ever had them set up or have you just guessed?

either that and/or its psyschological.

I tend to hang off like a monkey if I've really giving it some, it makes it feel so much more stable. Like really ar$e over, dropped shoulder, yadas yadas. Like I'm going for Knee down but not actually doing it.