FairFuelUK

[littleoldman2]

Received this email forwarded to me.

Dear FairFuelUK Supporter, Our battle to see off the August 3p per litre (16p a gallon) rise in petrol/diesel tax that was just waved through in the Budget has started! We received great coverage in The Sun (read by 7.5m) about our damming initial survey findings – you can see it here...


Over the coming weeks we’ll be asking you to help by contacting your own MP. But right now, we are asking you for some very simple help. The FairFuelUK community now numbers over 251,000 concerned citizens and business owners across the country – but to make an even bigger impact in the minds of our MPs we need even more people behind us. We can’t afford to use press and TV advertising to reach new people, so that’s why we are asking for your help.
If you are at home now, why not ask other family members to sign up?
If you are at work, how about your office or factory colleagues?
If you are a member of a local organisation or club, how about asking the other members?
If you run a business, could you ask your staff to sign up?
If each supporter spreads the word to just a few others, the overall effect can be amazing.
Why not ask them by word of mouth or perhaps forward this email?
The sign up page link to back the campaign is at www.fairfueluk.com
We know that sometimes people feel a little awkward about passing on requests such as this. However, we know from experience that anyone who cares about the cost of petrol & diesel almost always welcomes finding out about FairFuelUK. If we can drive our community up towards 500,000 supporters in advance of all the campaigning and lobbying we are doing in the next few weeks in Parliament we will have an even greater chance of seeing off that 16p a gallon tax hike.
As ever, thanks so much for your support………
Kind regards,
Quentin Willson, Peter Carroll, Lynne Beaumont and Howard Cox
FairFuelUK Campaign Team

[MJC-DEV]

Absolutely no point!

The cost of oil will continue to rise and swallow any reduction in duty, Get use to £2 per litre, it will happen with or without changes in duty.

[Sir Trev]

Absolutely no point!

The cost of oil will continue to rise and swallow any reduction in duty, Get use to £2 per litre, it will happen with or without changes in duty.

This

Plus the country is skint (thank you Gordon!) and needs to collect taxes from somewhere to balance the books. Do you want to pay a little more for fuel or see even more cuts in services? You have no choice.

[littleoldman2]

I have no real problem with tax's on fuel and think this should be extended to include all fuels. By that I mean all fuels should be equally taxed e.g farmers and construction, trains, boats and aviation fuel, coal, electricity, gas (the list is endless) not just road users. I don't wish to get into the poor struggling to get to work on highly taxed fuel while the rich buzz around in their almost tax free helicopters argument, I just want fairness.

[littleoldman2]

Absolutely no point!

The cost of oil will continue to rise and swallow any reduction in duty, Get use to £2 per litre, it will happen with or without changes in duty.

As the cost of oil goes up so do the revenues from VAT is that not enough?.

[dizzyblonde]

This

Plus the country is skint (thank you Gordon!) and needs to collect taxes from somewhere to balance the books. Do you want to pay a little more for fuel or see even more cuts in services? You have no choice.


Not this.

This country relies on fuel for everything. If it keeps going up, then the food you eat goes up, you won't be able to drive to work because the fuel is too much, and companies won't be able to earn a living because a) you aren't there to do that for them, and B) because they can't afford to sell their products.. etc etc etc

Keep rising the cost of fuel, this country kills itself off. SIMPLE. Besides, government tax is far greater percentage of the oil part of the fuel is anyway.

Reduce fuel duty, more people buy fuel, meaning more tax spent on fuel, meaning more companies selling, and moving, your food is cheaper, you spend more, you can go to work to earn the money to spend more.



Jeez, do people really think collecting taxes to balance the books works by hiking everything up.......FFS.

[punyXpress]

Thought the Fuel Duty rise was to save the planet?

[littleoldman2]

Thought the Fuel Duty rise was to save the planet?

Just the politicians excuse to put up taxes, if they meant it they'd tax aviation fuel etc at the same rate. Fact is increasing an old tax doesn't lose as many votes as bringing in a new one.

[dizzyblonde]

Aye, there is some sort of 'green' arrangement that is in place,which is the real reason as to why they can't bring fuel down. All a load of cobblers, they can do it, they just don't want to do it, plus the EU thumbscrews are well and truely tight.

[Jackie_Black]

Fuel has gone down where I live 139p a litre for diesel, woo. I accept the price though, and when it goes up i'll still buy it. When I was a kid (the 80's) cars were luxury items and we walked all over the place. I think Hauliers etc should pay less, and anyone that is involved with food delivery etc should get a duty cut this in theory will make food and essentials cheaper, then hike it up for joe public. Discuss :p

[suzukigt380paul]

i suggest making fuel that planes use the same price as pump petrol and diesel,that way youll double the revenue from fuel and as planes contribute about 40% off the polution from transport then there will be less polution,less needless plane journeys as the price will go up,so a win win scenario more tax revenue less polution no need for a new london airport and more fuel to go round to keep 2 and 4 wheels going for a bit longer,and as to red diesel if you put the price up youl on make british food more expensive and we are not talking about a few pence here, red must be about 70p a litre if you put it up to 140p a litre and you tractor or combine or what ever uses 500 litres a day which isnt unheard of then you dont have to be accountant to work out its going to cost every one alot more to put food on the table

[punyXpress]

Fuel has gone down where I live 139p a litre for diesel, woo. I accept the price though, and when it goes up i'll still buy it. When I was a kid (the 80's) cars were luxury items and we walked all over the place. I think Hauliers etc should pay less, and anyone that is involved with food delivery etc should get a duty cut this in theory will make food and essentials cheaper, then hike it up for joe public. Discuss :p
Spot on!
Cheaper for the supermarkets to buy, but will THEY pass on the savings?
Back to the drawing board, JB

[Jackie_Black]

Well my theory was, if the food is cheaper you can always walk to the shops!

And, yes they will pass the savings on. They are all fighting for business now.

[Sir Trev]

Not this.

This country relies on fuel for everything. If it keeps going up, then the food you eat goes up, you won't be able to drive to work because the fuel is too much, and companies won't be able to earn a living because a) you aren't there to do that for them, and B) because they can't afford to sell their products.. etc etc etc

Keep rising the cost of fuel, this country kills itself off. SIMPLE. Besides, government tax is far greater percentage of the oil part of the fuel is anyway.

Reduce fuel duty, more people buy fuel, meaning more tax spent on fuel, meaning more companies selling, and moving, your food is cheaper, you spend more, you can go to work to earn the money to spend more.



Jeez, do people really think collecting taxes to balance the books works by hiking everything up.......FFS.

Let me add an economic principle in to the mix here. It's called elasticity of demand. People will have to buy fuel if it's 100p a litre or 200p - that's a simple fact. Adding a few pence a time will have almost no impact on the volumes of fuel purchased and contrary to some of the political propagana it will not cause millions of hauliers to go bankrupt overnight. Reducing the duty as called for will also have little or no impact on volume, people will save two or three quid a tankfull which will have little or no impact to them in real terms, but the exchequer loses millions overall which means more cuts elsewhere.

Taxation and government funding are a lot more complex than most people realise. And yes, we do have to collect tax to make it work - if we don't we end up like Greece who are on the verge of bankruptcy. You cannot spend your way out of a recession. We either live within our means and pay for what we get or we go bust. Personally I'd rather pay a little more in tax and have a more certain future.

[littleoldman2]

Let me add an economic principle in to the mix here. It's called elasticity of demand. People will have to buy fuel if it's 100p a litre or 200p - that's a simple fact. Adding a few pence a time will have almost no impact on the volumes of fuel purchased and contrary to some of the political propagana it will not cause millions of hauliers to go bankrupt overnight. Reducing the duty as called for will also have little or no impact on volume, .

.

Not true
one of endless articles http://www.forecourttrader.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/4984/Petrol_sales_down_1.7_billion_litres.html

[Gregga]

Thought the Fuel Duty rise was to save the planet?

global warming is a bit of a myth i think

[keith_d]

i suggest making fuel that planes use the same price as pump petrol and diesel,that way youll double the revenue from fuel ....

Nope, all the short hall flights will arrive with tanks 60% full because it's cost effective to fill up at the other end and avoid overpriced fuel in the UK.

Result - more pollution because planes are carrying extra weight (fuel), and less revenue for the exchequer because only the long haul flights buy fuel.

[punyXpress]

global warming is a bit of a myth i think
Totally agree with that, Gregga.
Global Warming is the 21st Century ' Emperors New Clothes' and naysayers feel the full wrath of the Spanish Inquisition for having the temerity to say so.

[littleoldman2]

Nope, all the short hall flights will arrive with tanks 60% full because it's cost effective to fill up at the other end and avoid overpriced fuel in the UK.

Result - more pollution because planes are carrying extra weight (fuel), and less revenue for the exchequer because only the long haul flights buy fuel.

Just like the lorry's do now. Supermarket artics bringing veg from Spain use no UK taxed fuel.

[keith_d]

Yep, register in Poland where the tax is lower, buy fuel in Spain where the tax is lower, then pound our roads to bits without paying a bean.

[Sir Trev]

Not true
one of endless articles http://www.forecourttrader.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/4984/Petrol_sales_down_1.7_billion_litres.html

Amazingly biased and almost as bad as an opposition politician's speech (of any party at any point in history). Short term fluctuations do happen but it becomes accepted and pretty much the same level of use is returned to very shortly after. This is exactly where the economic term elasticity comes from. And there are just as many articles and, more importantly, properly researched books, pointing out how true this is.

[littleoldman2]

Of course its biased everything to do with tax is.
Nothing posted so far can give an argument as to why tax on road going vehicle fuel duty should be increased whilst not taxing other fuels to an equal extent. Yes I know we as a country need to raise more tax AND spend less money. That is not the point, the point is why not other fuels. Every argument as to why we should not apply tax to other fuels applies to petrol as well. When its cheaper to fly from Newcastle to Exeter than get the bus (2010 haven't checked this years prices) one reason is tax distorting the market.

[mister c]

I work in the plant hire trade & have noticed a drop in business. We were paying about 35p per litre for red diesel last year. Now it has risen to 71p. This has to be paid, or replaced by the hirer somehow, so prices then rise for work to be done, thus people don't have the work done. Lots of our customers tell us that foreign workers are undercutting prices so much that they just aren't getting work in.

On another note. i think that the HGV delivery companies should be able to run their vehicles on red diesel. If it's cheaper to trunk commodoties, then the price would fall & more people would spend money because it's cheaper to buy goods.
But then the Government would have to recoup their lost tax revenue from somewhere else

[littleoldman2]

On another note. i think that the HGV delivery companies should be able to run their vehicles on red diesel. If it's cheaper to trunk commodoties, then the price would fall & more people would spend money because it's cheaper to buy goods.
But then the Government would have to recoup their lost tax revenue from somewhere else

Another distortion of a market. Distribution companies would then buy HGV's instead of smaller vehicles as running costs would be lower. Next it would be buses, then Taxi's. We are already in the situation that food prices are being forced up as land is used to grow rape seed to make into biodiesel (much lower tax).

We need to level the playing field for all businesses. World oil prices are rising, hence the increase in red diesel prices and this will result in many changes for many businesses (+ more VAT for HMG), so be it that's life.

[theboatman]

Another distortion of a market. Distribution companies would then buy HGV's instead of smaller vehicles as running costs would be lower. Next it would be buses


Buses, boats, planes etc that carry more than a set number of people already get the road duty back or reduced, so the distortion is actually more towards the Haulage companies.

[littleoldman2]

Buses, boats, planes etc that carry more than a set number of people already get the road duty back or reduced, so the distortion is actually more towards the Haulage companies.

That's my point, all fuel duty should be the same regardless, giving an equal level playing field for business and a sense of fairness to individuals.

There is now such large scale fraud involving red diesel that there are two specialist units of HMRC in my area doing tests on vehicles. Proper tests not just dip and look as the fraudsters decolour the red diesel using charcoal filtration systems.

[keith_d]

That's my point, all fuel duty should be the same regardless, giving an equal level playing field for business and a sense of fairness to individuals.

So, what do you base this fair duty on? Fossil carbon content (emissions), energy content (usefulness)?? Whichever you choose there will be winners and losers, and you can be sure someone will be screaming "Think of the pensioners" or "this is harming business".


There is now such large scale fraud involving red diesel that there are two specialist units of HMRC in my area doing tests on vehicles. Proper tests not just dip and look as the fraudsters decolour the red diesel using charcoal filtration systems.


Yep, that's why red diesel contains coumarin as well as the red dye, quinizarin. Coumarin has a strong UV absorbance around 280nm which makes it easy to detect in low concentrations. So even if the quinizarin is removed HMRC can find evidence of red diesel being used.

[pookie]

how do you think the introduction of electric cars for domestic use is going to lower prices. The oil prodcuers always complain that the prices go up due to shortages / low reserves ( war in , libya, iraq, the old bomb in nigeria.) Let make cheaper electricity and ride bikes :)

[littleoldman2]

So, what do you base this fair duty on? Fossil carbon content (emissions), energy content (usefulness)?? Whichever you choose there will be winners and losers, and you can be sure someone will be screaming "Think of the pensioners" or "this is harming business".


Couldn't agree more, that's politics and we are talking about politicians so let them get on with it. Just because it's not easy doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. This is part of my argument it's easier for them to just keep loading duty on to road fuel, can you imagine the upset if 58p per Lt (+VAT on the 58p as well as the fuel) was added to aviation fuel.
Business winners and losers, business evolves like everything else and has to adapt, e.g. canals when the railways were built.


Yep, that's why red diesel contains coumarin as well as the red dye, quinizarin. Coumarin has a strong UV absorbance around 280nm which makes it easy to detect in low concentrations. So even if the quinizarin is removed HMRC can find evidence of red diesel being used.

Its nearly 5 years since I got tested and I was only able to see so much. From what I could see they had fixed frequency FTIRS, & NIRS systems in the van. I'm not certain as I've done very little analytical. I think they were also looking for triglycerides as rape oil was MUCH cheaper than diesel at the time.
The more the duty on diesel is increased the more attractive alternatives like rape and fraud become.

[GagginForraPint]

Signed up as a pay enough tax already. I'd rather spend the money on myself, the wife, and kids. Government still gets their cut.
The price of fuel is scandelous. Public transport takes you 4x longer to get where you want to go.