Underfloor heating, Yay or Nay?

[thefallenangel]

I'm looking into buying a run down terraced house. The place needs gutting and starting again and i am after the mighty 'orgs knowledge.


Is underfloor heating a good solution for a terraced house?

My + Points so far from looking are:

1. I am an electrician by trade so putting it in isn't a problem.
2. Everyone says it's brilliant and makes feet feel toasty and warm.

My - points are:

1. It's expensive compared to a combi boiler which as the house has no heating seems the easiest route to go down as at about £2-£2.5k for a complete new system fitted seems cheaper than the £1200 for underfloor heating i estimate i need plus then a hot water supply too for showers etc . . .
2. As i am gutting the house and starting from scratch, i think it might be easier to put the combi boiler in as it needs rewire, kitchen, bathroom etc. . and just be one less job to do.

So is it worth the hassle even perhaps for say the living room and bedroom?

[Specialone]

I've fitted a fair few electric matting types, but not the hot water type.

IMO, they will take the chill off but not heat the room, unless you live in a super insulated modern house.

The floor needs to be super insulated too as although heat rises, the floor is a massive potential for heat loss.

IMO, get a combi fitted, you'll need hot water anyway, by all means fit underfloor heating but only as secondary heating.

[Spank86]

Underfloor heating will keep your feet warm if you have hard flooring. Might be easier to get carpets.

[Fallout]

How expensive is it to run? My house is electrically heated using storage heaters. They're not great, but obviously they only charge up during the 7p/KWh off peak rates. When it was really nippy over the winter, we had a 2KW electric fire on in the lounge most evenings and our leccy bill was noticeably bigger. From that, I can imagine under floor heating is pretty expensive to run.

Sometimes I miss having gas, but mostly it's fine. Our hot water is also heated off-peak by immersion, so it's not expensive, and we don't have to worry about boiler servicing, installing pipe work for radiators, bleeding them etc. Our system is zero maintenance.

They're not for everyone, but they work for us. Nice only having 1 energy bill too.

[Cymraeg_Atodeg]

My parents have got underfloor heating in their house and the floor is carpeted in th living room, but, tiles everywhere else.

There are no radiators downstairs and even in the coldest of winters it keeps the house lovely and warm and gives and even heat around the whole room, not just near the radiators.

Makes drying out clothes a pain, but, is worth the effort

[Balky001]

My father in law has just built a timber framed bunglow and went for underfloor heating. Every area has its own manifold/heat setting.

I was sceptical but it brilliant. The only thing is it heats to a particular height (weird) so not sure how it affects a house, probably need rads. You do have to spend more on carpets/underlay as thy have to be compatible and they are not as thick as some carpets if your thinking of going super lux but they are good. It was that expensive to put in and cheap to run. That said the bungalow is well insulated and gave the highest rating of efficiency/air leaks

[Bluefish]

Go the combi route, underfloor needs to be left on all the time, you can't come in from work and go oh it's a bit chilly put the heating on, well you can but you won't be able to tell the differance for hours, and it's the cost of laying it, the insulation screed etc

[Small Clanger]

I'm an electrical contractor and have fitted quite a few also.
A wet (piped) system is good if you are completely starting from scratch. Do you have timber or concrete floors? If it's concrete (downstairs) you really need to smash it up and put 100mm Kingspan insulation beneath before re-concreting and laying the wet system, then the finished floor. Tiles,wood or carpet all work.
Timber (upstairs) would need lifting, insulate between joists or use insulated backing board/ply, then pipework on special trays, then the finished floor. All that would take up room so you'd probably have to raise the door-casings.

I'd recommend a combination of rads and H/W from a combi (do you have gas?) along with electric UFH by mats (like the Warmup system) in bathrooms and en-suites. Maybe an electric or dual-fuel towel rail if finances/space allow. If you go for a conventional boiler and cylinder then put the towel rails on the hot water loop.
The last few electric UFH mats I've fitted have been Vent-Axia, pretty good, easy to fit and about 30% cheaper than Warmup. The wet UFH systems I use are from Upanor, very pricey but I have ones in service that were fitted 12 years ago, no problems so far.

www.warmup.co.uk (http://www.warmup.co.uk)
www.vent-axia.com (http://www.vent-axia.com)
www.upanor.com (http://www.upanor.com)

[Small Clanger]

Just noticed Bluefish's post, correct-but they do heat up surprisingly quickly, depending on what the finished floor is.
The Warmup and Vent-Axia ones have a temperature probe that embeds in the floor, a dedicated programmer that does on/off times like a normal C/H programmer and which also has settings for comfort levels/floor temperature/economy monitor etc.

[suzukigt380paul]

both the wet and electric systems work well,but have seen floors ripped up when the electric type stopped working,and assume its like a electric blanket and can burn out or wires break,so if some one else installs it get a long guarantee or do your research on the most reliable,but how well it works is all down to insulation both floor and the rest of the house,as to running costs is there any such thing as cheap heating.i advice living in the uk summer time and the other 11 winter months move somewhere warmer

[thefallenangel]

I am looking to start from scratch with a 2 bedroom terraced house. Thinking no radiators would allow better space use. I will probably go combi boiler for hot water supply and a few radiators where space isn't a problem. But if you have to dig out 6" of concrete i don't think i will bother. I was kind of hoping it was just a case of double insulating a roll out mat with a plug(Or fused spur) controlled off a stat. (150w/m square @ 8m giving about a 6/7A current drawn so no need for a contactor although i do have some 18A contactors spare). It's a bit expensive but if you are only in one room then it does make more sense. I have installed miles of heat tracing in work which with lots of insulation does work well.

[suzukigt380paul]

if you are using a wet system then i would say 6'' if you are thinking a electric mat then that may be less,but of course the thinner the insulation then the more heat you may loose,but i have seen electric mat type that you only apear to use thin insulation and then tile on top and may only be about 30mm deep.but dont take my word for it have a look round and see whats on the market,and i believe even srewfix did this system

[Dave20046]

With my experience of an old terraced house (with cellar beneath the living areas) it sounds like a bloody good idea!
But I wouldn't do away with radiators for it.

[Dave20046]

OR you could go with the underfloor + this http://www.thermaskirt.com/ - if you're really offended by the idea of radiators

[Stenno]

Personally I wouldn't go for electric underfloor heating except as in addition to conventional gas central heating. It's nice for tiled floors in your bathroom say, but even then you might want a radiator in there to heat the room up quicker. And don't rely on towel radiators, they're for heating towels, not room.
Electric under floor heating is more expensive to run and when it goes wrong can be a right pain in the posterior to repair if only for having to clear the room and lift up the floor.
If you're tight on space make sure you have a smart plumber who knows how to size up radiators based on cubic room size, not wall space. You can go for doubles with fins so you get decent convection heating as opposed to just radiation.
I also suspect you'll sell the house on easier.

[maviczap]

Mate had an electric mat underfloor system put in a extention, just one tiny section under a tiled floor in the dining room.

He soon had it disconnected as it cost a fortune to run.

[Small Clanger]

If you want to stick with a combi and rads and are struggling for space, do a search for vertical radiators. A radiator does'nt have to be 2' high and 4' long, it can go the other way. Ideal for hallways or small bedrooms.
Some of them are quite stylish too. For a radiator.

[Specialone]

And don't rely on towel radiators, they're for heating towels, not room.


Not true, sized correctly they will heat a room, big mistake most people make (i fit a lot of bathrooms) is buy one similiar in size to their old panel rad, size by btu's and not size of it and it will heat a room.

Ive got a 1500x600mm in a 8ftx6ft bathroom and it heats that fine, if you have a big bathroom, get a big towel rad or two.

[Specialone]

Oh and electric ones can be repaired quite easily by the manufacturers, they do a trace on it and can pinpoint exactly where the break/problem is so you only have to lift that small bit of floor rather than the whole thing.

[thefallenangel]

Ok. Well it does save a bit of hassle. Just need to find a way to rejig upstairs to get a bathroom in. Already been told a space saving ensuite (3m x 1m.) isn't the way forward which is a shame (in addition to a downstairs bathroom). Hoping to get this at the right price and should be a good small home for me .

[Stenno]

Not true, sized correctly they will heat a room, big mistake most people make (i fit a lot of bathrooms) is buy one similiar in size to their old panel rad, size by btu's and not size of it and it will heat a room.

Ive got a 1500x600mm in a 8ftx6ft bathroom and it heats that fine, if you have a big bathroom, get a big towel rad or two.

Not in my experience despite the claimed BTU rating. Albeit I do live in an old building with no wall insulation. Maybe if I hadn't put any towels on it...

[Spank86]

Wall insulation's a biggie, without that a lot of heat is just going out the wall it's on, and a lot more flooding out all the others.

I have no wall insulation hence why my house doesn't get over 18degrees all winter.

[Specialone]

Not in my experience despite the claimed BTU rating. Albeit I do live in an old building with no wall insulation. Maybe if I hadn't put any towels on it...

So do i tbh, i only put two towels on though and fold them so its not completely covered.

[Gazza77]

We renovated our terrace house and installed water underfloor heating. There are advantages and disadvantages to it, however I'd say it was worth it. We have a stone floor downstairs which is excellent at retaining the heat (the pipes themselves are laid in screed underneath), with pipes laid in aluminium plates upstairs, under a chipboard floor, with underlay and carpet underneath. This is not as effective as downstairs, however is still effective. We're part way through our loft conversion at present, and that will have an engineered wood floor, so it will be interesting to compare the effectiveness of that compared to carpet.

Advantages:

Constant heat across the room, rather than hotspots near a radiator.
Cost effective to run - our 2 bed terrace costs us about £63 a month in total for gas and leccy combined, and that includes the cost of running a dehumidifier and an optimate on constantly for 6 months of the year, which does make our leccy bill rocket over winter!
In a small house, no radiators means that you have more space for furniture, as you don't need to leave a wall spare with nothing against it.
Keeps the house warm, although obviously insulation is a key part of this.

Disadvantages:

Costs more to install.
Doesn't heat up quickly, so you need to plan when you have the heating on in advance, rather than just turning it on/up when you feel cold.

We also have a mulitfuel stove in the lounge as a secondary heat source, so if it doesn't feel as warm as we want, we can quickly get a fire going for a quick and cheap solution.

[TSM]

Ide say if you have a house and have an existing hot water cylinder then dont replace with a combi, if you boiler packs up then you are left with nout but with a hot water cylinder you are sorted. Also the non-combi units are far simpler and somtimes cheaper. Also if you have an older pipe system dont go presurised as there is a high chance you will sping leaks everywhere.

[thefallenangel]

The house has no heating at all (Aside from an old 3kw heater.) Combi system installed is about £2k with radiators etc . . but i think i would have a combi for hot water supply anyway and the odd roll out mat kit from screwfix for a few rooms. With the mats it's not just a case of lay insulation, flooring, connect up and away to go?

[flymo]

I have both types at home. Underfloor water piped heating for a large tiled kitchen/conservatory and the electric wire type for a first floor tiled bathroom.

The kitchen/cons was quarry tiled directly onto soil when we bought it, so cold and damp. We dug down and used hardcore, 150mm Kingspan, waterpipe fastened to the Kingspan and then finished with concrete and self leveler before the tiles.

In the bathroom, with it being a floorboard/joist setup we used aquapanel flooring, wired and then self leveled before tiling. see http://www.warmup.co.uk/

Got loads of installation photos etc, any questions fire away.

[tigersaw]

Is leccy heating still a nono? I've seen some pretty swish ceramic wall heaters, remote controls, plug straight in a socket etc.