Complete electrical failure. K3

[Jayneflakes]

My K3 has had a complete electrical failure which has worried me somewhat. I switched her on yesterday afternoon with the intention of moving her out of the garage for a while. I pushed the starter button and the engine started to fire, then everything just blipped off. No ignition lights, no power anywhere and the alarm seems to be running under it's own power.

My guess is the main fuse, I checked the fuse box and it is not there, so I have consulted the Haynes manual and it says it located on the starter relay with a picture, so today I intend to find and check this one too. [-o<

I have never had an electrical problem like this before so am a little concerned, any tips on what I should be looking for as to a cause?

If the main fuse is fine, what else should I be looking at? :smt115

[SoulKiss]

My K3 has had a complete electrical failure which has worried me somewhat. I switched her on yesterday afternoon with the intention of moving her out of the garage for a while. I pushed the starter button and the engine started to fire, then everything just blipped off. No ignition lights, no power anywhere and the alarm seems to be running under it's own power.

My guess is the main fuse, I checked the fuse box and it is not there, so I have consulted the Haynes manual and it says it located on the starter relay with a picture, so today I intend to find and check this one too. [-o<

I have never had an electrical problem like this before so am a little concerned, any tips on what I should be looking for as to a cause?

If the main fuse is fine, what else should I be looking at? :smt115

Have you had the battery disconnected?

If so, check the terminal bolts are good and tight - I've been caught with the same problem before.

Its probably worth checking anyway even if its been a while since the disconnect incase its worked loose.

[Sid Squid]

Check fuse first, then examine the ignition switch connector for the commonly found duff terminal.

[Jayneflakes]

The main fuse is fine, off to check connectors now. The battery terminals are fine and clean too. I am going to put a test meter on the battery and see what it is kicking out too. Not a happy bunny today. :-(

Thank you for the suggestions chaps. Sending hugs your way.

[speedyctr]

Hi Jayne. Your bike and my bike seem to have similar problems at similar times!

At the minute mine is out of action due to reg/rec, (sounds like yours shouldn't be that) but if you check the simple things and they're OK it could be the green connector which caused my breakdown a couple of months ago. I hope it's not but at least once it's fixed it's fixed!

[Geodude]

Bribe Carol to fix it and while shes busy and distracted pinch her bike ;)

[SoulKiss]

Bribe Carol to fix it and while shes busy and distracted pinch her bike ;)

Sorry mate, but a :) isn't really going to do it with that post.

thats much more of a "Mwhahahaha" comment

[Geodude]

Better?

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5750166_f260.jpg

Mwhahahaha ;)

[Jayneflakes]

Bribe Carol to fix it and while shes busy and distracted pinch her bike ;)

Better?

http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5750166_f260.jpg

Mwhahahaha ;)

Done! :mrgreen:

Starter solenoid has failed. Carol is going to check it, but I am pretty certain this is the cause.

Now a little review of Carol's ZRX1100!

Last time I tried Carol's bike it was frankly too heavy and did not need the throttle to pull away from the curb. Today I discovered what it can do and all I can say is that it is true, power corrupts! 1100CC of thumping power means that pulling away from the lights has just become that little more frantic. Riding it the same way as the SV caused a slight shock in third gear. Luckily, the brakes could stop a battle ship, so slowing me down was no problem!

Time to start looking at the SV1000 I thinks... :smt040

Although I wonder if I could just plumb the thou lump into Sylvie! Hmm... *wanders off to plot naughty things!*:smt115

[Jayneflakes]

By the way, thank you every one for your comments and yes it is true, I did do as Geo suggested and take Carol's bike for a ride!

I checked all connections and they seemed fine, in the end I spoke to Carol and my mates Dave next door and Steve at the garage, all suggested getting the test meter into the bits and this is how I found that the fused solenoid was not allowing any current to flow. I will get Carol to check this, just to confirm if I am wrong or right.

[Jayneflakes]

Carol checked my solenoid and it is working correctly, however we do have one development, the parking lights now come on, but nothing else. It looks like the fault is at the front end after all. Maybe stealing her bike for the afternoon was not such a good idea after all!
:-(

[CodeJACK]

Is this another case of the magic green block behind the steering head?

Check that power block for melting.

[Jayneflakes]

That block is such an utter swine to get to as well! Any tips on the easiest way to access the little git?

Many thanks you darling people. :-)

[Bibio]

radiator swung out the way then there is a plastic shield that you need to take pig of a plastic pegs out (philips #2) if they wont twist out you have to pry the feckin thing off. once the shield is out the way you have full access to the little darling.

[CodeJACK]

hmmm, i couldnt get to mine that way. I had to remove the airbox.

Its not that bad to do but its the soldering of the cables that gets fiddly.

[yorkie_chris]

That block is such an utter swine to get to as well! Any tips on the easiest way to access the little git?

Many thanks you darling people. :-)

There isn't one. F***ing thing....

There's a stupid plastic thing in the way underneath, if you can get that out of the way then you might be able to sneak an allen bit in to undo the thing holding it to the frame.


Ask badger about doing this job the night before glencoe ride... at the campsite.

[pookie]

i got to it via the air box as codejack mentioned
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=142106&page=2

[Shawthing]

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=168184

I found better to attack from above.
Lift tank, remove top of aibox, loosen the two clamps that hold the bottom of airbox to the throttle boddies. Lift and then Push the bottom of the airbox rearwards and you should be able to get to the green connector ,sliding it up off it's mounting bracket.

[Jayneflakes]

The mystery deepens, I have now attacked the green connector and gained access to it. All is fine down there, it is carrying current and has no signs of damage. I then checked the ignition barrel which did have a small fault, one wire was damaged where it had been zip tied to the unit. This was replaced and reconnected to the loom. Still nothing. We have measured voltage at several places in the loom and cannot work out why the system has failed.

So back to basics, the battery is giving out the right voltage, but strangely seems a little low and cannot light a 12v lamp, it is now being charged. It seems odd that the battery could fail in such a way as to cause a complete failure though.

Any body else out there experienced anything like this?

:(

[jambo]

If there was any damaged wiring it is possible that the battery has drained through this circuit. Charge it up, plug it in and let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed!

Jambo

[yorkie_chris]

The mystery deepens, I have now attacked the green connector and gained access to it. All is fine down there, it is carrying current and has no signs of damage. I then checked the ignition barrel which did have a small fault, one wire was damaged where it had been zip tied to the unit. This was replaced and reconnected to the loom. Still nothing. We have measured voltage at several places in the loom and cannot work out why the system has failed.

So back to basics, the battery is giving out the right voltage, but strangely seems a little low and cannot light a 12v lamp, it is now being charged. It seems odd that the battery could fail in such a way as to cause a complete failure though.

Any body else out there experienced anything like this?

:(

Manufacture yourself a test lamp using an old indicator.

Rather than check for voltage check for power. Connect one lead of lamp to earth.

Sometimes voltage seems OK but there is too much resistance to flow any current.


If you have fire at main fuse, at red wire in green connector, power flows freely through ignition switch... then you must have a problem with orange wire that goes back to fusebox.

Or a problem with earth somewhere. But check for power first cos that is easy.

[Jayneflakes]

So I have been through the whole wiring system and found one faulty wire on the ignition switch, which I have now replaced. Sadly still no signs of life from the bike though and we have finally traced it to the battery.

The battery is giving out volts, so when I measured it I thought it was fine. However, when I connected a test lamp to it, the lamp could barely light and went out after a few second. We charged the battery over night and connected the test lamp again. Again, the faint glimmer from the lamp went out after a minute or two.

I have now ordered a new battery from my friends shop. The big lesson that I have learned is that I need to check properly when measuring currents. Thanks to every one who posted offering advice. ;-)

[speedyctr]

Out of interest Jayne which battery are you getting?

[Geodude]

New battery in and bike working yet?




ps 'friends shop' erm org rates ;)

[Jayneflakes]

New battery in and bike working yet?

No not yet, they have to order one in for me due to being out of stock of that one, but it will be in after the bank holiday on Wednesday. :cool:


ps 'friends shop' erm org rates ;)

You could try asking, but I took them doughnuts and since then they have always treated me very well. Also, they are our friends! :smt080

[Geodude]

Haha doughnuts seem to be the going rate as I borrowed some carb balancing kit from a custom bike shop and paid in doughnuts too :) Hope you get sylvie up and running soon. xGx

[Jayneflakes]

Update time for this little gremlin induced problem.

The faulty lead fix in the ignition has done the job, as has the new battery which came from a company called Rob H Batteries. However, while I am off work with a damaged shoulder I cannot ride her for more than a few minutes before the pain gets too bad, so she is back in the garage.

Once the new battery was in, I checked the voltage again, this time taking a little more care to make sure I was not just testing dead cells. With everything off, it read 13.6 volts. With the engine running on idle, this dropped slightly, however as soon as the engine revved above 2K, voltage increased to just over 14 volts. I think that this proves that my charging system works. As for the current check on the new battery, does both headlights & side lights, all six indicators and a non flickering tail light confirm that all is well?

I think what is needed now is a nice long blast, but for that I need a new shoulder! Next job though is very important, clean off the dirty finger prints from the paint work! ;-)

[yorkie_chris]

So long as it still charges with the lights on.

[Jayneflakes]

So long as it still charges with the lights on.

Being a K3, the lights are always one (which breeds bad habits if you ask me!) so when I checked voltage with revs going, the lights were on.

As a side note, I am sure that it is possible to modify the loom to switch the lights off, anyone think that this is a good idea and worth doing? :smt115

[Jayneflakes]

Now then Ladies and Gents, I have resurrected this thread for a reason because once again my precious Sylvie has suffered an electrical failure and as is the way with these things, it always happens when you need it to happen the least. Thankfully I know a thing or two more since I started this thread and traced the issue fairly quickly to the damn green connector. When I finally managed to split the damn thing open, I was presented with one blackened terminal and a bad join. So with a bit of switch cleaner I have made it work again, but this is clearly a temporary fix.

Now I have been looking on line and have seen several cheap and nasty connector blocks, but I am looking for a better than standard replacement (so yeah, I could use a cheap e-bay special it seems!) with out paying through the nose. Can any of you recommend a good replacement of both sides of the connector?

I have been looking at things like this,

http://www.autosparks.co.uk/images/864.jpg

but at ten quid a pop, this one seems a tad expensive.

Any tips?

[Bibio]

there are no cheep weatherproof connectors. however... you can make any connector weatherproof by squirting silicone sealant in the tops.

it's not per say the connector that causes the terminal to fry, it's to small a terminal in the connector that cant cope with the current and eventually gets work hardened.

the best way to fix the problem is actually to bridge the offending wire and take out the burnt terminal from the block. remember to cut the wire a good bit back so you get nice fresh conductor then make a 'bridge' wire using some good uninsulated spade or bullet connectors and the boots. tin then solder the wires to the connector before crimping will insure you have a perfect connection. top tip from the Bibster.. bluetak is your friend for holding wires to frames etc.etc while you solder.

while your at it get yourself some proppppper electrical contact grease, the type that comes in a syringe. this is the stuff i use http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/contact-cleaners/0503335/ open up any connector and squirt the stuff down the female terminal then close connector again. use it every time you open a connector you have not been at before or just take a day and go round every connector on the bike like i did.

[Jayneflakes]

Thank you Bibio, that is really helpful. Once again you have proved to be a star.

[Jayneflakes]

I now have some heavy duty connectors on their way to me via the joys of the E Bay, so will be replacing the stupid small green block with some thing a bit more manly! No more 2.8mm pins to burn out, I have 6.3mm spade connectors coming.