What would cause my back end to slide so much? [Archive] - SV650.org

hongman

03-07-12, 05:40 PM

Help prz.

Over the last few days in Scotland we have ridden some wet weather, and iv had more slides in these past couple days than I care to remember.

I'm not talking 80mph cornering, I'm talking barely leant over on a big A road doing 50/60mph. Back end consistently spins out and although so far controllable it's taking the fun out of it. Just zero confidence in it now.

Pressures are bang on 33:36 on cold.
Chain is new and within spec tension wise.
Rear tyre is under 2k miles old. Avon storm2

In the dry there's loads of feedback and it's great.

Only thing that has changed is the emulators. Could this be happening because the new front suspendys is upsetting the stock (and probably past it's best) shock?

Anything else to suggest or look for?

I'm a modest rider but I know 100% something is wrong, I can almost predict when it's going to slide but it's way slower than it should be. Not yanking the throttle either, just tickling it on.

Halp!!

TSM

03-07-12, 05:47 PM

Slimy roads after a spell of good weather, road surface type in wet, rider.
Also the back tyre is always sliding a certain amount when you are going around corners hence why you can get around them, in the wet you feal it more and then you just back off a little or tone down the cornering till it is comfortable.

Bibio

03-07-12, 06:04 PM

have the same sorta problem and i put it down to coming off the hard part of the duel compound. you also have to remember that scotland has some weird tarmac in places, watch out for the bald patches that look shiny (pure tar) as it's like hitting ice when wet.

davepreston

03-07-12, 09:47 PM

dodgy chinese food ;)

Nobbylad

04-07-12, 08:55 AM

dodgy chinese food ;)

lol

NTECUK

04-07-12, 11:30 AM

The Storms don't get very good reviews when ther cold.
Come back to essex and it will be fine.
read this
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Storm-2-Ultra.htm
so Just poddle about for a bit

Dabber

04-07-12, 02:47 PM

dodgy chinese food ;)

Or cut back on the lube :D

Joke aside, I can't comment on mine in the wet as I've not rode it in real wet weather yet, nor do I intend to.

I also have the use of a MX5 which is fitted with Toyo's. They are one of the best wet tyres for that make of car, but I can still easily kick the back end out on roundabouts etc.

-Ralph-

04-07-12, 04:03 PM

hongman

04-07-12, 05:39 PM

You are a bunch of ****s lol. Wouldn't expect anything else though!

Been ok today, but in my opinion still giving up grip far sooner then it should. Iv been using storms since I had the sv so I know what they were/should be like.

Oh wells. Maybe sv4me is actually spraying my tyre when I ask him to do my chain instead...

speedyandypandy

04-07-12, 06:36 PM

Shouldn't Pilot Road 3 be mandatory by law for driving in Scottland?

hongman

04-07-12, 08:24 PM

Meh well Dave is on pr3s and he seems
Ok. So maybe.

Nobbylad

04-07-12, 08:32 PM

You need to fatten up a bit fella or get a top box and lash some bricks in it.

hongman

04-07-12, 09:57 PM

Topbox check! All of daves ****e check!

mikerj

05-07-12, 12:36 PM

Can I recommend those wipes the little crocodile advertises on the TV, the ones that claim they allow kids to do it themselves. Worked wonders cleaning up my son when he was a toddler and got a slidey back end.

Also good for use on a "delicate" rear end after suffering the effects of dodgy Chinese food :D

leebex

05-07-12, 08:02 PM

Noticed my back end slide twice today, I pulled over after the second time thinking something was wrong, as I wasnt even going very fast.

Second time this hgas happened to me on really hot days, I just put it down to dodgy tarmac, as the rest of todays ride was fine, but made me bit nervous :thumbdown:

Didnt help that I took a ducati monster out today for a test ride, and it had a £1000 insurance excess if I damaged it! eek!!

p4uls

06-07-12, 08:39 PM

I've done that twice this week in the dry got new tyres and scrubbed them in and took off and leaned quite hard and gave it a bit of a twist, back end stepped and gripped then took off again. Tyres must have not been scrubbed in fully yet, thank god they were Michelin so i managed to slide and control them gave me an awful scare tho. :o

dizzyblonde

06-07-12, 09:20 PM

The Storms don't get very good reviews when ther cold.
Come back to essex and it will be fine.
read this
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Storm-2-Ultra.htm
so Just poddle about for a bit

Bullox.

Real reviewer says otherwise ;)

xXBADGERXx

06-07-12, 09:53 PM

To be honest Hongman , I wasn`t that impressed with the Storm 2 and the edges felt like they could have been a bit softer . Are you running a Scottoiler ? and is this sensation happening on either side of the tire ?

NTECUK

06-07-12, 11:14 PM

Bullox.

Real reviewer says otherwise ;)
Well just shows theirs folk who have had same going on.

One type of hope don't work for all.

barwel1992

07-07-12, 12:26 AM

I liked the storm 2s in the wet but weren't that great in the dry thought they felt un inspiring when really pushed, road attack 2s I have on the fz have been great considering all the rain and the power it's putting out but I'm getting quite a lot of tearing when getting a shift on

Hong man what rear shock are you running ? If not standard try and drop a click of rebound (softer) this should help the rear end react faster to bumps keeping the tyre on the floor increasing grip and as your slight this could be a problem

Lozzo

08-07-12, 12:15 AM

Bullox.

Real reviewer says otherwise ;)

By your own admission you don't ride particularly hard, so maybe your idea of how well a tyre is performing is slightly out from someone else's who uses the bike harder than you do.

rictus01

08-07-12, 12:38 AM

By your own admission you don't ride particularly hard, so maybe your idea of how well a tyre is performing is slightly out from someone else's who uses the bike harder than you do.

does that apply to me as well Lozzo ?

hongman

08-07-12, 10:02 PM

Now now, lets keep this civil...

Sorry for the absence from the thread, lost my phone somewhere near Aberfoyle...

Anyway - not had any more chance to "test" as it hasnt rained in Scotland since (haha) but on the way home it spun up in the wet in a straight line, although admittedly I was grabbing a handful.

No scottoiler, and on standard shock.

When these wear out I think I will try some PR3's. I was going to bite the bullet and get a Nitron Sport but it seems I may well be chopping the SV in for a Street Triple R so going to hold off on that for now...

barwel1992

08-07-12, 10:21 PM

What sag are you running on the back ? Bike ,and rider

Bibio

08-07-12, 10:25 PM

i'm still undecided whether it's the tyres or the bike.

i will say one thing and that's they are no where near as good as the MK1's. i'm sure the front has had a profile change and is a little steeper which i don't like as it rolls in nice the drops quite sharpish, the back tyre likes to spin up on tar in straight lines. there seems to be a bad transition between upright and full lean its not quite the middle lean angle but just before it that i find they are a bit naff once past this part and they are great but its a bit unnerving in the wet and feels rather twitchy to me. ok so you might get more mileage out the ultras but the MK1's were better grip and consistency at different lean angles they also gave no problems with tar.

my back tyre is gubbed so i'm going to try the PR3's next, i'll keep the bike exactly how it is and see.

rictus01

09-07-12, 12:06 AM

see i had 4 sets of the original storms before, I've found the front to be as good on the ultra's and the rear only slightly harder (hence needing more control on power application), if by "twitchy" you mean gives loads of feed back, then I'll agree, but that's good as I use it, I'm not a fan of those tyres that "blunt" it out and never have been, still I guess asI've only done about 150,000 miles on them I'm still learning......;)

Cheers Mark.

xXBADGERXx

09-07-12, 12:11 PM

I had 2 sets of Storms and loved them . Storm 2`s came along and they were just not the same , felt slightly dull . YC even noticed I had spun the rear up a few times and that was in the cold admittedly . I also noticed that in the rain they didn`t behave as planted and grippy as the old Storms were . Let`s face facts . I live in North Wales ........ there was a lot of riding in the wet :)

rictus01

09-07-12, 01:29 PM

the old storms being one compound wouldn't have had a transition step at any point, and of course the core it slightly harder (giving excellent mileage I must say), so of course within those bounds they aren't going to be the same, but the shoulders and front are the same (or really close) to the original compound, given the transitional point on the rear, they work as well as the first storms in the wet for me, although if you don't take that into account I can see how it could be perceived as an issue.

Cheers Mark.

Lozzo

09-07-12, 08:21 PM

does that apply to me as well Lozzo ?

Certainly not Mark. I've seen how you ride and I know you're no slouch, so I'm more likely to listen to your opinion on tyre performance than someone who, by their own admission, doesn't really push a bike hard. It's like asking someone with cataracts to describe the Mona Lisa.

NTECUK

09-07-12, 11:10 PM

The more you get heat in them they should work better.

Juju

10-07-12, 10:13 PM

I think there could be one thing that's not really been mentioned, and its the rider.

I sometimes get days when in the wet, I feel a bit of a squirm or slide under my rear tyre. Now, I am one great big pansy on a motorbike. The only time I could say I've pushed it hard is when I've run out of petrol, and my chicken strips could be sold by Col Sanders with a side of Coleslaw.....

But I have noticed it's more likely to happen when I am "unhappy" on the bike. Ie it's ****ing down, my jacket is letting in water, my visor is fogged, and I am worrying about that flashing amber light and the day at work ahead of me - I am in " I am not enjoying my travel " mode. You get one tiny slide and become hyper sensitive to it, and suddenly even the slightest swerve left or right seems to feel like the rear is moving about under you. I notice that then I find I am too tense to ride properly, riding too upright, and its all a bit of a disaster.

I don't know how to really overcome those days when "I don't really fancy it" but have to ride, they just happen - like I occasionally have those days where it all comes together - last week through Woodbridge/Martlesham Heath up the A12 I've never taken roundabouts so well and could see even on a rear tyre thats got 1.5k on it that I'd been further over than ever before....

Bibio

10-07-12, 11:00 PM

when the storm ultras are new they are great but about 1/2 of the way in they start to get a bit twitchy. weird thing is i have the wheel off for getting a new one tomorrow and the centre part which is supposed to be hard is the part of the tyre that is worn which i find strange as i don't do motorways and tend to horse it out of corners till i'm upright then back off a little. so if anything the sides should be gubbed but they are like new. i also use all of the tyre with no CS and have had them on the edges, i will give them one thing in that they are very forgiving when they are on the edge and just tend to drift rather than let go.

i'm still a bit undecided as i really don't want to go the rest of the season on a new set but having just replaced the front about 800 miles ago i'm reluctant to change it for a PR3 or i could get the PR3 rear and see how the combination is and if its wrong then sell the part worn front and get the PR3. rock and hard place.

Paul the 6th

10-07-12, 11:21 PM

Pr2s are the bomb bib. Pr3s are identical composition but have more cuts for better wet grip. Had my knee down twice on gm rideout (both on roundabouts). You wouldn't be disappointed if you had a set fitted

Bibio

11-07-12, 12:21 AM

i don't care what i have on in the dry it's the wet riding that's scaring the crap outa me. i can handle tyres squirming and drifting in the dry as i can still feel grip but i dont like it when its wet as it feels like its about to let go.

rictus01

11-07-12, 12:35 AM

I'm more likely to listen to your opinion on tyre performance .

as did Lou, we've talked about tyres before and she knows why I use the ultras, both the pluses and minuses of them

I think there could be one thing that's not really been mentioned, and its the rider.

and of course the state of mind, most "manage" in rain, rather than use or enjoy it, I was riding though London traffic today in a few down pours and had great fun, but then I practice a lot in these conditions and like all things practice makes perfect...;)

i don't care what i have on in the dry it's the wet riding that's scaring the crap outa me. i can handle tyres squirming and drifting in the dry as i can still feel grip but i dont like it when its wet as it feels like its about to let go.

Once again, you're probably far more familiar with dry handling conditions than wet (hence the "comfort zone"), more exposure and actually practacing the limits of grip and smoothness of control will help no end.

It may seem crazy to most, but this year I actually looked forward to early February as that was the icy weather and made a trip all the way to Newcastle and back over the yorkshire moors, just so I could do some Iced road riding, as I needed to brushup my skills.

Cheers Mark.

hongman

11-07-12, 10:21 AM

I've got no doubt I could be doing more to improve in the wet, I dont mind it as long as I'm dry and have my pinlock (which I did).

The main cause of complaint isn't all about sudden loss of grip - its also about the limits/speed/lean angle of which the grip is giving up, is a lot lower than on my previous set of Storms.

dizzyblonde

11-07-12, 10:33 AM

Certainly not Mark. I've seen how you ride and I know you're no slouch, so I'm more likely to listen to your opinion on tyre performance than someone who, by their own admission, doesn't really push a bike hard. It's like asking someone with cataracts to describe the Mona Lisa.

I was actually pointing towards Mark when I posted, as I knew he'd come along to comment further.

I have a bike that needs decent tyres on it. If I had cheng shoi on the VRaptor I would find myself in a ditch. Funnily enough, I went out yesterday in the flooded roads of Halifax, on a very twitchy bike, with soft suspension, cold tyres.

Didn't budge an inch, no sliding, no poor performance. Believe me, if you've seen the news last night, you'd know that I ain't making big statements when it comes to that sort of water on the roads here.

Never budged an inch on the AR last year either. I have to choose tyres very very carefully for the VRaptor.

I would hazard a guess at the standard shock being past its shelf life, than the tyres being poor performing. But of course I am female, don't ride like a god, and know jack poo. :rolleyes:

xXBADGERXx

11-07-12, 04:19 PM

Paul the 6th

11-07-12, 05:02 PM

true badger. Everyone needs to get an SRAD.

Lozzo

11-07-12, 10:25 PM

I was actually pointing towards Mark when I posted, as I knew he'd come along to comment further.

"Real reviewer says otherwise" when posted by yourself doesn't exactly say "Rictus/Mark says otherwise", it infers that you are the real reviewer. No-one can see you pointing towards anyone else, they read the words as they see them and act on what they read.

If you don't want to get into discussions about this sort of thing, make your posts a bit clearer to avoid confusion.

punyXpress

11-07-12, 11:07 PM

BoltonSte

13-07-12, 09:15 AM

Hey! Hongman - how did that feeling compare with the bits of road gravel on Saturday.
My PR3s never twitched in the wet on Friday & there was plenty of that! *
Saturday, could feel the loose gravel, but steady away no problem.
Both days was riding like the ultimate woos!
* Used Friday as an exercise in smooth riding, ( as Rictus' post #35 ) including Helmsley TT & thoroughly enjoyed it.

Slighty OT I know, but... did you have Qualifiers on the ST3 originally and are the PR3's any better? I quite like the Quali's on mine but at 4k a rear it's a bit of a dear do, I'd heard the PR3's are good and I hould be in the market for a full set this time around.

punyXpress

13-07-12, 10:06 AM

Last year's GM, hated Qualifiers with a vengeance - couldn't get enough heat in to get a grip also dampers on harder than racing settings. Fitted PR3s as soon as I got back on the basis that most tyres are OK in the dry but a helluvalot are $hite in the wet.
Ask Dean - unlike me he makes good progress in wet or dry.
Doing Leeming tomorrow so should be able to give a better verdict on them. Rain expected!

BoltonSte

13-07-12, 12:05 PM

Now you see I've heard that on the ST forum, seems to be a love/hate thing....Maybe because I'm well built it's less of an issue?

I've been happy with mine, wet or dry..and I do like having fun if it's wet...no twitchier in wet than other tyres and never any surprises. Only thing I had was after the AR and it felt like the rear was all over the shop, but it was the front getting down to the limit...it went off the last mm to the marker really fast.

I have just dropped the pressures to Dunlop recommended and went out yesterday, the rears much less bouncy and easily letting me run to the edge.

Would be interesting to see how long they last as well, Girth has been trying to get me to buy Roadsmarts, but they aren't cheap and at 4K for a rear qualifier I think I may want something that lasts a little longer.

Who's Dean?