Language learning

[EssexDave]

Has anyone done it to a high standard?

I'm thinking of learning spanish from home and was just wondering whether anybody had any advice on tips and tricks to become better :)

[anna]

Yes, yes and yes Pimsleur is the best way of learning a language to gain a fluent level of speaking. If you are only bothered with reading and writing then go the normal Linguaphone route, but if you really wish to speak and sound native Pimsleur is your friend... http://www.pimsleur.co.uk/?gclid=CLCg56iflbECFRMgtAod2gESRQ

I would say that learning to read and write isn´t normally as difficult as it is to speak the language so get yourself as much audio such as music or story books from the internet that you can to aid your learning, then get some Spanish friends to chat with over skype.

Then chat to DavePreston to learn all the swear words ;)

[-Ralph-]

You can't learn a language to fluency level from books, CD's or a course. They will give you a foundation to start from, but to get fluent go spend a decent amount of time in Spain, preferably in some little back water village where most people speak very little English. It's the only way.

[johnnyrod]

You can learn the basics from books etc. but really listening is the hardest thing and you can only get that through practice. Look for evening classes at a local college, I bought a BBC book/tape set first and while I did learn a bit, it wasn't anything like as much as I did on the college course. Typically a foundation course gets you up to around GCSE level i.e. nearly all present tense stuff, and a range of everyday vocab. As Ralph says you need real practice but I have found this no too easy with Spanish compared to say German, to hear the individual words and understand the meaning. I'd say that you won't progress beyond a basic level at all unless you have some speaking and listening practice.

PS I used to travel a lot and tried to learn a few words wherever I went. The example of Spanish holds true even if you are trying to learn 20 words of Turkish, you've just got to use it on them and get used to people wondering what you are saying!

[metalangel]

You need instruction from a fluent speaker. You also need lots of conversation at just above the level of your competency to challenge you and keep you learning.

I learned a lot about the basic structure of ASL from instructional websites and DVDs, and can have a very rudimentary conversation with my missus (little more than 'how are you?', 'do you want coffee?' and 'what time are you home from work?') but I'm sure we're doing a lot of it wrong and I'll find out just how wrong when my course starts in September.

[Dicky Ticker]

Living or working in the country------as has been said above,start off with a basic vocabulary and then expand on it.
35 years working/int driver abroad and if I was going to a particular country regularly,learn menus,how to order beer,and swear.
Unless you have a particular desire to learn Spanish I would have thought German a better bet but for a general insight into a few languages Esperanto is your friend.

Several decades of arguing with customs at border crossings was a help:rolleyes:

[dizzyblonde]

I'm learning Greek, its difficult, because getting a fluent speaker to talk a lot of it round the house is hit and miss. The good thing is, its right from the beginning, teaching a toddler is fun, and also easy and the best time.

I speak French better being over there, it all comes back once in the thick if it. Embarrassing I've forgotten all the German my gran taught us when we were little.

[widepants]

I always find it easier to speak German after a few scoops

[Dicky Ticker]

That is known as being fluid as against fluent-----but i agree:):)

[-Ralph-]

As an illustration of the requirement to practice, my 4 yr old son is a fluent French listener, but not a fluent French speaker. This is because he doesn't get the opportunity to practice. My wife speaks to him in French whenever they are alone, but as soon as I am around it defaults back to English. He watches French DVD's, and my wife reads French books to him. He can translate from French into English perfectly (in fact when you test that out and ask 'how do you say that in English' he looks at you like you must be stupid and can't figure out why you have to ask), so he knows the words and what they mean in his head, he's just had little practice in speaking them. My wife can have a full conversation with him speaking in French, but he replies in English because that's what he's most comfortable with, the only time he speaks French is when forced to, ie: 'You can have a biscuit, but only if you ask for it in French'. We are going to France for two weeks in August, and he will come back more comfortable speaking in French, because he'll be forced to, none of the in-laws speak English, so it's the only way he can make himself heard. Within a couple of weeks coming home again, he'll be out of practice and finding it difficult again.

As Dizzy says, around the house you default to speaking in the language that the majority of participants are comfortable with and in our house that's English. We've been together for 11 years and for at least the first half of that my French wasn't good enough to use it in day to day conversation. When you've had a hard day at work, to have to think just to be able to speak to your wife and child, it is just too much hassle, so I only spoke French in France when I had no other choice, and nothing else to think about.

Even now I am fluent, I didn't pick up the phone to the in-laws the other night, because my wife was out and I was too tired to contemplate a half hour conversation with my father-in-law in French.

Now that I am more fluent we should speak French more around the house and get my son speaking more, but speaking English is a long established habit, which takes serious discipline to break, much harder than for instance stopping smoking.

So the best way to learn a language, is to be stuck in a country where it's all around you, and you have no other choice. Unless you speak the lingo, you can't even read a newspaper or watch the TV.

The two main problem with courses are

(1) they are subjective, they teach you how to deal with scenarios where you are talking to strangers, like buying a train ticket, or asking for directions, they don't teach you how to have a fluent conversation about general matters, ie: no course will ever teach you how to re-write all the posts in this thread in another language and have it all still make sense and retain the same meanings

(2) they teach the rules, not the exceptions, ie: slang, colloquialisms, humour, innuendo, abbreviations, words/expressions that literally translated would make sense in English, won't necessarily make sense in another language. You need to be able to understand and use these things to be fluent IMO.

The work of a translator is not to translate word for word, it's to relay the meanings and intentions of the original content. A translator may completely change what is said in order to achieve this (ie: translate a humorous comment and it may no longer be funny), and to be able to do that is a skill and a half, particularly on the fly when translating speech. The people you see on TV translating on the fly for politicians at international conferences, have had years and years of training and practice, and probably years of living in both countries.

[the white rabbit]

I'm learning Greek, its difficult, because getting a fluent speaker to talk a lot of it round the house is hit and miss.

Th th the th th

There you go simple.

[maviczap]

I learnt German many years after leaving school, as it was offered at work

We had a classroom learning session once a week, plus homework, but it was a whole lot easier having a wife who speaks it fluently.

But it really clicked when we went for holidays over there, or German reli's came to stay. All the older generation don't speak at word, so you have to speak the lingo.

I'd like to top my knowledge up, as my vocab only goes so far, so I'd thought of having more lessons or going to evening classes.

My folks went to evening classes and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Whats important is that although I may not always be grammatically perfect, my reli's really appreciate that I can speak the lingo, which I couldn't when I first went over there. I'm a quick learner, despite what my German tutor thought of me.

But take a tip Chinese will be the language to learn :p

[EssexDave]

Chinese is also a very hard language!

German is on my list, my basic German is very good, I already know a fair amount of Spanish and can understand enough when in Spain and make myself understood for basic things - but as somebody said above, it's being able to be conversational.

[maviczap]

Nee how - hello (Chinese) I think, easy!

Dos vadanya - spelt how it sounds - Russian for good day or similar

I did try Dutch, but it was harder than German,

[femaleacid]

I've always wanted to learn German! Never had the chance to in high school :-(

[maviczap]

I've always wanted to learn German! Never had the chance to in high school :-(

Neither did I, it was only French at school and I hated our French teacher, so I flunked it and did European studies with all the other thicko's :p

I learnt it in my 40's, its never too late to start.

Now I think could also handle French and I think its such a beautiful way of speaking.

[femaleacid]

Neither did I, it was only French at school and I hated our French teacher, so I flunked it and did European studies with all the other thicko's :p

I learnt it in my 40's, its never too late to start.

Now I think could also handle French and I think its such a beautiful way of speaking.

We had French too and my teacher was an absolute idiot, tried making a fool of me so i dropped languages which i regretted in my last year because they did German! :-(

[widepants]

we did latin ...now that was a complete waste of time

[dizzyblonde]

Very much in agreement Ralph!
I havent been to France for four years now, but, my friend lives in a place where very few speak English, or like to.pretend not to. It's amazing how, if you have the basics learnt, howuch you can extend on it, because you have no choice! Its actually part of the enjoyment trying to make an.effort to join in.

As an aside, Oli is not yet two yet, but you have brought a very good point about being a good listener. rather than speaker. It's one to take note of in the adult learners world too. I can understand quite well in France what the other person is saying, but stringing the reply can be difficult at times. If you actively show an effort, you are met half way, and even given the words for your sentence. Its not as daunting as it seems when thrown in at a deep end, so to speak.

[Stenno]

I did German at school for 5 years but didn't pay any attention. Now I'm living with a German lass. Sod's law. Got back from a 2019mile bimble to Germany and back to see the inlaws and it's now very apparent I need to learn it.

Question is, do I stick with some dodgy Michel Thomas cd's, or do I pay for Rosetta Stone?

[metalangel]

I did German at school for 5 years but didn't pay any attention. Now I'm living with a German lass. Sod's law. Got back from a 2019mile bimble to Germany and back to see the inlaws and it's now very apparent I need to learn it.

Question is, do I stick with some dodgy Michel Thomas cd's, or do I pay for Rosetta Stone?

Is there some reason your missus won't teach you?

[Stenno]

Is there some reason your missus won't teach you?

Oh she teaches me bits but we don't get enough time together as it is so I need to learn the bulk on my own.

[anna]

Is there some reason your missus won't teach you?

ALWAYS better to get a third party to teach you ;)

[timwilky]

Like many I did O level French at school, hated it and scrapped a pass. Always thought it a waste of time. Skip forward 10 years and the company I work for goes into a joint venture with the frogs. We who might have to talk to them get French lessons provided for a couple of hours a week by the company. Again a waste of time as all the ones who come to my meetings speak English.

Then as I move in the company I have to go to frog land. fine the company official language is English. all meetings unless no English there are held in English. But once the meetings are over and you need to get a couple of pint and a meal. English no longer cuts it.

Waiters in Paris are considered rude. Sphericals, Make the effort in French, generally they will appreciate it and help you. After all you wouldn't go into a london pub and expect the barman to speak half a dozen languages. In Paris they do.

As far learning language properly. My sister did Frech/German at O level and for A she was also accepted to do Spanish as well as French/German, if she could take and pass an O level by christmas. So 4 months to pass to O level standard. As part of her degree she spent a few weeks in Madrid and after graduating went back there never coming home. so whilst living in Madrid she worked for a Swedish company who needed English/Spanish speakers as their management could generally speak English and leaned Swedish. She then learned Russian and at the same time picked up as degree from the university of Madrid in European language. Her children never talked English in the home. she now regrets not forcing them. but says once you become fluent in your 5th language it becomes even easier to learn yet another.

[tactcom7]

European language course for £29 on groupon today, might be worth a look...

[maviczap]

Ok I'll start you off with a useful phrase

'Haben sie ein tote vogel in ihr hose?'

Say that to you wife