Org police - worth pursuing a minor claim?

[Dave20046]

Found myself making friends at the weekend, and wouldn't mind pressing charges for GBH with intent (that's what a copper suggested it was, I thought grievous meant I had to be seriously injured but hey ho they definitely intended to harm/kill me) on a group of 8 of the finest citizens to 'graduate' an SIA course.
Luckily I avoided the privacy they wanted and have some street CCTV and several witnesses. But it's 3 vs. 8 + ropey CCTV, there was no physical confrontation from my side of things but when I thought the matter was done, I did foolishly offer a rather brief but damning life analysis (looks like it was accurate!) and a cheery wave which will be on camera. Round 2 then ensued, which involved a further 7 friendly meatheads, but no vehicles this time thankfully.

I just know the police are going to say "well the 8 people say xxxxx... and you say xxxxxxx so let's just forget about the whole thing" *

I admittedly don't want any charges bringing against me (but at the same time I'm thinking if the above scenario happens it's almost an admission that they don't have proof of my alleged 'offences' or think they couldn't possibly be brought) I also accept I'm a tool, however the attack was somewhat nasty and on principle don't really want these people to continue like this** and seriously hurt someone.


*Not a snipe at the police in anyway, the two that appeared (and fast) were pretty good and the 999 operator instructed a witness pretty effectively which helped to disperse the less determined ones.
**but accept there's a good chance they'll just be replaced with as bad/worse


Wouldn't mind a bit of advice to arm myself with, particularly from the police who I can only imagine see this several times a day week in week out.

[Bordtea]

What exact injuries do you have? Common assault/ABH/GBH the category of offence is defined by the injuries you have.

[Dave20046]

Nothing visible, all punches were to the throat and kidneys. Muscle strain to by neck from attempted snappage and a spine that's been stamped on.
Over all just a bit stiff (oi oi!)

Witnesses to me being thrown in front of a car and the quote "i'm going to snap your ****ing neck" repeated, I'd view it as good attempt and it was planned, it was a fair bit away from the premises these chaps were employed to secure.

All considering a part of me wouldn't pursue on the basis I'm going to be fine and my life clearly isn't as miserable as theirs- I don't fancy wasting the police's time. Just the thought of it happening to someone else that's a concern, so would like to see a mark against their names. The purpose of the thread is so I can give an informed answer if I'm given the (one) chance to call it quits or pursue.

[Fallout]

If you want an answer from a forum bobby, it might help if you actually explained what happened. I read your post twice and it doesn't really describe the event in a form that conveys anything useful, except for the fact you're miffed. How did it start, what happened, who hit who first, who said what, what injuries etc? Step by step, otherwise how can anyone guess at who's to blame and how the cops would view it?

[Dave20046]

I'm not miffed in the slightest, sorry you read that into it.

I was assaulted by a bouncer outside of a club, went to a colleague to complain and ask the attackers name & badge number (if relevant with SIA) and was thrown into the path of a car. This would be the point of my stupidity, where I gave a verbal rundown of my opinions of the bouncer in a smartass way and walked away accepting that was all that could be done in the way of justice.

5 minutes later I was jumped by him and 7 friends.

I don't see the need for too much more detail or a word for word account as I'm pretty sure any copper that sees this sort of a scenario will just tell me 'you can't win', I want to know if I'm wrong on that assumption. If that's incorrect then fair enough.


I accept I should have known better, and should have pieced together the fact that there'd been a boxing match on, these guys were pumped and it was nearing the end of their shift. Should never have bitten and should have just taken the slap and walked off and complained retrospectively. I'm not really after a slating on the forum if it can be avoided!

[DJ123]

It would be on the premises CCTV i would imagine, majority of them cover the front door area. Plus they would know what security team was on, i would ask for the SIA number and make a formal complaint/charges to the Police-having violence on record can lead to said bouncer losing his SIA license (there are terms and conditions of having/keeping an SIA license)

[Dave20046]

It would be on the premises CCTV i would imagine, majority of them cover the front door area. Plus they would know what security team was on, i would ask for the SIA number and make a formal complaint/charges to the Police-having violence on record can lead to said bouncer losing his SIA license (there are terms and conditions of having/keeping an SIA license)
I don't hold out hope for the premises surveillance, but there was public CCTV, am I entitled to request it before further committing to a decision?

(and request the premises surveillance if available via the police)

The 7 others were all SIA bouncers from the same venue, the police that attended said they have no business following people outside the venue attacking them and disappearing as the police turn up, I was actually surprised they went this far too hence why I'm thinking they could do with their thoughts on acceptable response to idiots realigning.

[DJ123]

I believe that you have to register the offence with the Police first, then you can tell them about the public CCTV, and also of premises CCTV. I would do it sharpish as i imagine they don't keep CCTV footage for a long time.

[maviczap]

Can you get some cash from the criminal injuries compensation scheme

One of my colleagues was assaulted, had a tooth knocked out by some random guy who took a dislike to him in the street. Never caught the offender, but he got some money I think

http://www.justice.gov.uk/victims-and-witnesses/cica

[Specialone]

Cnuts, glad you're ok buddy :)

In fairness door staff have calmed down a lot these days but it used to be a regular occurrence in the 80's and early 90's before it was clamped down on.

Making a complaint is the right thing to do IMO, they have to have licenses now I believe which involves police checks, hopefully it might cause them some hassle.

Either complain or get a shotgun license ;)

*this actually happened to a lad I used to work with, he worked doors on the weekend and after refusing entry to some pikey looking lads then they came back later and blasted the door which he was behind, he was peppered with shot in his neck and back.

[MisterTommyH]

I wouldn't count on the public CCTV mate. When I was floored in Wolverhampton a number of years ago the CCTV was conveniently looking the other way. Despite a very good description from my mates and knowing that the idiot would have run right through where the camera was said to have been pointing. Still reported it though. Both because I think these things should go on the stats, and because I needed a crime number as a reason why I had to give my presentation and leave for hospital the next day rather than sitting right through the course (maybe I shouldn't have been out drinking that night).

Impressive story though.... My mates reckon it's the only time they've ever actually seen someone god completely in the air and rotate through 90 degrees before landing on their back.

[Dave20046]

I believe that you have to register the offence with the Police first, then you can tell them about the public CCTV, and also of premises CCTV. I would do it sharpish as i imagine they don't keep CCTV footage for a long time.

The offence was registered at the time and police have checked footage within an hour of the incident. They couldn't get premises footage though.

The 999 operator told the caller to tell the bouncers it was all on cctv and police were attending and most dispersed at that. Whether it was the truth or just good advice I'm unsure at present.

[Dave20046]

Can you get some cash from the criminal injuries compensation scheme

One of my colleagues was assaulted, had a tooth knocked out by some random guy who took a dislike to him in the street. Never caught the offender, but he got some money I think

http://www.justice.gov.uk/victims-and-witnesses/cica

I'm uninteresting in cash to be really honest. I am (well, will be) fine physically and a happy person - I just don't want these chaps on the doors.

[Bibio]

phone an ambulance chaser they are bound to take the case :-)

or chalk it up as a bad experience and move on.

[AndyBrad]

Report it. No doubt. Even if you clocked him one ( which you didn't I hope) they have no need to follow you.

Haul them over the coals!

Unless you did something really bad.?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[DJ123]

The offence was registered at the time and police have checked footage within an hour of the incident. They couldn't get premises footage though.

The 999 operator told the caller to tell the bouncers it was all on cctv and police were attending and most dispersed at that. Whether it was the truth or just good advice I'm unsure at present.

That's good then. In that case i would go for it and press charges. You know what he/they look like and where they work. Even if it gets no where or he gets a caution, it is a mark on him and means he potentially could lose his job.
That would have been good advice and for the safety of yourself + friends i imagine, they probably knew they would leave the scene and not carry on the assault.

http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/licensing-conditions.aspx

[Dave20046]

Cnuts, glad you're ok buddy :)

In fairness door staff have calmed down a lot these days but it used to be a regular occurrence in the 80's and early 90's before it was clamped down on.

Making a complaint is the right thing to do IMO, they have to have licenses now I believe which involves police checks, hopefully it might cause them some hassle.

Either complain or get a shotgun license ;)

*this actually happened to a lad I used to work with, he worked doors on the weekend and after refusing entry to some pikey looking lads then they came back later and blasted the door which he was behind, he was peppered with shot in his neck and back.
Yeah a mate was working some other doors that night and has provided me with names conveniently. He has been stabbed twice and shot at and takes verbal abuse week in week out, that's not right IMO.
The aggressor here was looking for a fight from the start, he was ****ed off I wasn't stupid enough to physically hit him in my opinion or they would have dragged me into the club at the door.

I've always been of the opinion if nothing you can do could be construed as a physical advance you're fine, this wasn't the case here which isn't really right in my opinion.

Just going to stress the verbal tirade didn't commence until I'd been assaulted.

[Ch00]

Report it to the local police. If no criminal case happens hopefully the Licencing officers will be on their radar.

[Dave20046]

I wouldn't count on the public CCTV mate. When I was floored in Wolverhampton a number of years ago the CCTV was conveniently looking the other way. Despite a very good description from my mates and knowing that the idiot would have run right through where the camera was said to have been pointing. Still reported it though. Both because I think these things should go on the stats, and because I needed a crime number as a reason why I had to give my presentation and leave for hospital the next day rather than sitting right through the course (maybe I shouldn't have been out drinking that night).

Impressive story though.... My mates reckon it's the only time they've ever actually seen someone god completely in the air and rotate through 90 degrees before landing on their back.
The cctv had conveniently moved before the second attack at one point, the police rang me to tell me.

haha, yeah mine was less impressive - I was just swamped. Managed to stop them dragging me to the club though

[Bordtea]

From what you've said regarding injuries then it's almost definitely not GBH unless you've got any serious breaks in the skin? If you've got visible bruising/marks etc then you'd be looking at ABH.

[ethariel]

Contact the SIA

Security Industry Authority
PO Box 1293
Liverpool
L69 1AX

Lodge a complaint against the club and thier security and push the point that they not only refused to sho thier SIA licnce when asked but became violent at that point.

Press charges too, backs up the complaint to the SIA, nothing to lose really!

Call an ambulance chaser/reputable (chuckle) Tv claims company, least they can make a request for the CCTV footage to be saved

[Dave20046]

From what you've said regarding injuries then it's almost definitely not GBH unless you've got any serious breaks in the skin? If you've got visible bruising/marks etc then you'd be looking at ABH.

Thanks , I thought that - silly policeman. I'm fine but it was the seemingly real and verbally confirmed threat of death that I want the charges to be based on.
I was pushed in front of a moving car by the throat (but caught) then the guy that had me in a choke hold twisting my head screaming that he'd snap my neck later was a bit alarming, it was pretty uncomfortable there was some solid crunches and I started to get a bit dizzy.apparently it was only then (a lot of adrenaline ,commotion and some beers) that I visibly resisted outwardlybut never struck out. I just remember forcing my neck the correct direction a pushing away the blokes jabbing me

they first attempted to drag me down an alley ,presumably back to the club but luckily that didn't succeed

[davepreston]

Contact the SIA

Security Industry Authority
PO Box 1293
Liverpool
L69 1AX

Lodge a complaint against the club and thier security and push the point that they not only refused to sho thier SIA licnce when asked but became violent at that point.

Press charges too, backs up the complaint to the SIA, nothing to lose really!

Call an ambulance chaser/reputable (chuckle) Tv claims company, least they can make a request for the CCTV footage to be saved

this and he will lose his licence and therefore his job

[unclepoo]

Some of these ott door-men give security a bad name..I work in the security industry, but in the technical side of things, I was setting up some metal detectors, like the type used in airports, at york university. We had lots of guards on..I got talking to one who was sub contracted to us and not one of our guards...he was all "alpha male" and playing the big I am to some of the younger guys there, he said he was doing the doors later(night club I guess)...he couldn`t wait to kick the carp out of some body or to use his words "plant drugs on em".....lovely fella. I should have reported him really.

[Bri w]

Sounds like you got lucky.

Personally, I'd pursue it coz the next person they grab might not be so lucky. They need moving on before they do serious harm.

[tactcom7]

Reminds me of the time I was approached from behind and throttled in a club in Portsmouth. Got dragged to the top of a fire escape where there is CCTV footage of me kicking another bouncer in the balls in an attempt to escape and then promptly being pushed down said fire escape. Was laying unconscious on the steps for a few minutes. Police tried to do the bloke (polish, hired as they were short staffed) for attempted murder as he had previous. Unfortunately i was in Afghan when the case came round so he got off.

I say do what others have suggested and report to SIA. The next victim may not be so lucky/capable as yourself.

[Owenski]

Thats a ****ter Dave glad you're Ok.
I tried to pursue a similar thing but I didn't have names/numbers so hit a dead end. Amazingly his work mates wouldn't help me out.:rolleyes:

I had wrecked clothes and a slit across my cheek from when my face was thrust in to a hand dryer. I approached the police outside who were very interested in how I appeared but lost interest when I said it happened inside.

You however were followed and attacked separably from the venue, by no less than 7 attackers, some of which you have the names of. So although I'm not a copper I would definitely recommended doing something about it. I know how it feels to be assaulted like that and although a few quid is a nice bonus its genuinely more about hitting someone who hit you, so your hit may not be physical one but if your bicep were stronger than his Im sure you'd have taken him there and then. As it is your brain is definitely stronger than his so take him out using that.

As always pal, anything I can do then let me know.

[Dave20046]

Will see what the police come up with and what evidence they have if any before proceeding.
Cheers all