Home Office worker strikes on eve of Olympics

[flymo]

I read this earlier http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18912742

Personally I feel that no matter what problems exist, this is our opportunity to put on a show for the rest of the world. Striking on a day like this is completely and utterly selfish.

The commercial damage that a step like this could cause would remain for a very long time.

[granty92]

this sort of stuff really pi*ses me off, we have been preparing for these olympics for years now, just because something has happened they let one of these union people get in their tiny minds and make them strike on such a busy and important day, really does anger me tbh and its going to look so bad on our country as it will look like they dont give a s*it and are not patriotic at all

[Spank86]

Thing is it's not like we really need train drivers anyway.

Turn em all over to computers.

[granty92]

but until they are computers we need them in the meantime, and they are just being di*ks

[Mr Speirs]

Sorry, you expect people to strike at a more convienent time when it causes little or no disruption? Surely that's the point of the strike!

There is obviously a reason these people are striking! Forced redundancies, pay freezes (whilst everything is getting more expensive), farming work to private companies to shift the money onto another budget. All whilst this is going on the cost of an adult passport is coming down cos they are boasting they have saved so much in their budget they can cut the cost. If I worked there I'd be pretty hacked off.

And bugger me if there was any time to do it to make sure you had a fighting chance of getting something then it's then!

And then to have these incompetent liars who play at ruining...sorry running this country tell them they are being unjust and unreasonable whilst they are off clambering to fix G4S's **** up, forcing service men and women who have just returned from Afgan to cancel all leave and their holidays.

Then when it all goes swimmingly I'm sure Cameron and his posse will be at the front of the queue to take any praise, or indeed if it all goes wrong trying to put blame on others.

And Teresa May can go **** herself.

[granty92]

i couldnt agree with you anymore but this particular reason is just stupid, i have a freind having to work and he is in the forces and had to do something with his leave, but yes i agree about cameron and teresa may

[Spank86]

The way I always look at strikes is this.

Your employer offers you a wage and conditions for you to go to work, If you don't like it then a strike is simply your way of not going to work and so not getting the pay and conditions.

Nothing wrong with that really, Especially when an employer can unilaterally change your employment contract, what other recourse is there? (plus the cuts are self defeating and will damage more than they help but thats another issue)

[flymo]

But the Olympics isnt some summer BBQ that the government are running, this is a showcase that is representing the entire country. It doesn't just make the government look bad, or any particular employer, it makes us all look bad.

Very very bad timing for all involved.

[granty92]

just such an important day they are doing it, going to cause unbelievable amounts of traffic and serious probslems for people

[MisterTommyH]

forcing service men and women who have just returned from Afgan to cancel all leave and their holidays.


Just so you know, that is complete b0llocks. A lot of service people I know can't believe what a frenzy the media have whipped up about this.

I support our service people as much as any other but my opinion (and that of a number of people I know in there) is that this is part of the job. It's whats the armed forced are for.... a contingency in times of need. (And I know people will argue that this isn't a time of need.... well **** happens. It's not like we could just cancel the games so it has to be dealt with).

Advance notice was given (although not publically) months ago - when units got back from Afganistan. Which leads on to the fact that they are not JUST back.



And Teresa May can go **** herself.

Agreed!

[ethariel]

It's the PCS, what else would you expect!

Lowest form of pondlife in existance imho.

Most of, if not all the other representitive unions are sensible enough NOT to try extortion during the Games as public opinion will surely fall negativley on them.

Don't get me wrong, unions have played important parts in the reforms of yesteryear and may continue to do so in the future.

However if the idiots in positions of percieved power and responsibility within the unions decide to use the Games as a political tool to push thier own agendas, i hope the government crushes them once and for all.

[ethariel]

oops

[metalmonkey]

If you ead the BBC report and its accurate, 20% of the work force voted, then of that 20%, 57% pretty much voted for the strike...

How that reprsents the work force who knows, this whole strike thing seems like a small amount of people moaning if they don't like they are then do something else. Loads of people are in the same boat, its getting worse not better.

[Messie]

So, all you naysayers and cynics re the Olympics - surely you must be heartened by this glad news?

The common man has reclaimed the upper hand in the power struggle against the overlords.

Will you not all be out with them, showing solidarity for the working masses?

Na, thought not. You'll moan, and moan and moan, then switch on the telly and watch the best bits, whilst opening a bottle/can of your favourite tipple, that has never been so cheap in terms of your weekly pay.

Think very carefully about shouting out either for or against the Olympics. Understand fully what lies behind it all

[Bri w]

So, all you naysayers and cynics re the Olympics - surely you must be heartened by this glad news?

The common man has reclaimed the upper hand in the power struggle against the overlords.

Will you not all be out with them, showing solidarity for the working masses?

Na, thought not. You'll moan, and moan and moan, then switch on the telly and watch the best bits, whilst opening a bottle/can of your favourite tipple, that has never been so cheap in terms of your weekly pay.

Think very carefully about shouting out either for or against the Olympics. Understand fully what lies behind it all

Must be end of term. Sal's on the sauce....;)

[Spank86]

Will you not all be out with
Na, thought not. You'll moan, and moan and moan, then switch on the telly and watch the best bits, whilst opening a bottle/can of your favourite tipple, that has never been so cheap in terms of your weekly pay. I shan't be doing either, I shall be ignoring both events since I'm not planning to leave the country or visit London they might as well be being hosted in Timbuktu.

On the other hand there are no best bits so nothing for me to watch, at least the winter Olympics has people travelling at crazy speed and flying through the air.

[SoulKiss]

Understand fully what lies behind it all

Shouldn't that be "Understand fully the lies behind it"?

[metalmonkey]

The Olympics used to be about sport, now its business that is very clear.

Please tell me I'm not the only that just wants to watch sport.

[metalangel]

I support our service people as much as any other but my opinion (and that of a number of people I know in there) is that this is part of the job. It's whats the armed forced are for.... a contingency in times of need. (And I know people will argue that this isn't a time of need.... well **** happens. It's not like we could just cancel the games so it has to be dealt with).

Tell that to the service people who've had to cancel their fooking weddings because the imbeciles running this show can't even organize your tax money being p***ed up the wall properly.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/military/2012/07/13/soldiers-blast-final-indignity-as-argylls-are-drafted-in-to-check-handbags-at-london-olympics-86908-23907897/

[Spank86]

The Olympics used to be about sport, now its business that is very clear.

Please tell me I'm not the only that just wants to watch sport.

If I'm honest I don't even want to watch the sport.


Communism ruined even that.

[Sir Trev]

It's the PCS, what else would you expect!

Lowest form of pondlife in existance imho.

Most of, if not all the other representitive unions are sensible enough NOT to try extortion during the Games as public opinion will surely fall negativley on them.

Don't get me wrong, unions have played important parts in the reforms of yesteryear and may continue to do so in the future.

However if the idiots in positions of percieved power and responsibility within the unions decide to use the Games as a political tool to push thier own agendas, i hope the government crushes them once and for all.

This

It is blackmail, pure and simple. The people that run unions are not good enough public speakers to get elected to parliament so go down this route instead. Most are not interested in the people they pretend to represent and just want column inches. Far worse than MPs in my opinion.

[DJFridge]

If you ead the BBC report and its accurate, 20% of the work force voted, then of that 20%, 57% pretty much voted for the strike...

How that reprsents the work force who knows, this whole strike thing seems like a small amount of people moaning if they don't like they are then do something else. Loads of people are in the same boat, its getting worse not better.

That's about standard for a union vote.

Re the actual strike, I'm not sure where I stand at all. I can understand the temptation to strike on a day like that, but the other half of me still has some pride in this nation of ours and wants the Olympics to show us in the best light. Tens of thousands of people queuing at Heathrow probably isn't quite the best impression to give the rest of the world.

[21QUEST]

Sorry, you expect people to strike at a more convienent time when it causes little or no disruption? Surely that's the point of the strike!

There is obviously a reason these people are striking! Forced redundancies, pay freezes (whilst everything is getting more expensive), farming work to private companies to shift the money onto another budget. All whilst this is going on the cost of an adult passport is coming down cos they are boasting they have saved so much in their budget they can cut the cost. If I worked there I'd be pretty hacked off.

And bugger me if there was any time to do it to make sure you had a fighting chance of getting something then it's then!

And then to have these incompetent liars who play at ruining...sorry running this country tell them they are being unjust and unreasonable whilst they are off clambering to fix G4S's **** up, forcing service men and women who have just returned from Afgan to cancel all leave and their holidays.

Then when it all goes swimmingly I'm sure Cameron and his posse will be at the front of the queue to take any praise, or indeed if it all goes wrong trying to put blame on others.

And Teresa May can go **** herself.

Glad to see someone talking sense..... :thumbsup: :D

[21QUEST]

I reckon folks would do better focusing their annoyance, anger, pain etc on the shambles created by G4$ and overseen by some of our finest 'creatures'...what's her name again?

And apparently, they are still getting paid...they have a cast iron contract it seems :rolleyes: ;)

[Bluefish]

1 tenth of the workforce has voted to strike, guess it'l be like the teacers strike, same **** different day.

[21QUEST]

Relatively speaking, I couldn't care less about the olympics when compared to THIS (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jul/19/disabled-workers-stike-remploy-factories)

That's before(after/) you talk about the changes being made to the disability allowance. How to they intend to provide the alternative employment the keep going on about.

Lets get our priorities right , I'd say.

[metalangel]

Relatively speaking, I couldn't care less about the olympics when compared to THIS (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jul/19/disabled-workers-stike-remploy-factories)

That's before(after/) you talk about the changes being made to the disability allowance. How to they intend to provide the alternative employment the keep going on about.

Lets get our priorities right , I'd say.

This.

A fraction of what's been wasted on the Olympics could have kept the Remploy staff with the pride and dignity of a paid job and a sense of purpose in life for years to come.

[Spank86]

OR,

if this is true: On average, each Remploy worker is subsidised by the government by £25,000 a year,


we could just give them all £20k a year and save some money because thats more than I take home.

[grimey121uk]

The Olympics used to be about sport, now its business that is very clear.

Please tell me I'm not the only that just wants to watch sport.

Sport is the smallest part of the Olympics, it's just another way the government can spend our tax money whilst keeping the average joe happy under the false protense of it being good for our country and economy. Seriously I can't believe people fall for it, do you really think that shops and hotels charging 5x the normal price for a few weeks is really a boost to the economy.

Then there are the dreamers who believe the Olympics makes our country look good to the rest of the world, we have old people who freeze to death in their own homes during winter, most kids coming out of school these days don't even know who Churchill was but us spending 10s of billions on a party will make us look good?

If its about sport what's wrong with a fekking field and some people running around?

I hate football too but at least it pays for itself!

All though in fairness I may watch the beach volleyball if it's on tv;)

[Dicky Ticker]

Public sector mentality-----------the world owes us and we want.
Not got enough balls to leave and look for another job if they are dissatisfied with the current terms and conditions on offer.I am sure loads of people would be grateful of the opportunity to have a job with the package. they are being offered.
NO---LETS STRIKE AND FUKC UP EVERYBODY ELSE after all they will be losers as well after paying hard earned money to attend the games.


This is what you get by paying union leaders over inflated salaries------they loose nothing by calling strikes----if that is the only action that can come up with to benefit their members they are not worth a toss and shouldn't be in the job.

[metalmonkey]

Sport is the smallest part of the Olympics, it's just another way the government can spend our tax money whilst keeping the average joe happy under the false protense of it being good for our country and economy. Seriously I can't believe people fall for it, do you really think that shops and hotels charging 5x the normal price for a few weeks is really a boost to the economy.

Then there are the dreamers who believe the Olympics makes our country look good to the rest of the world, we have old people who freeze to death in their own homes during winter, most kids coming out of school these days don't even know who Churchill was but us spending 10s of billions on a party will make us look good?

If its about sport what's wrong with a fekking field and some people running around?

I hate football too but at least it pays for itself!

All though in fairness I may watch the beach volleyball if it's on tv;)

So who pays for the Police, Amblance crews and the other costs to the NHS and the state as whole casue it isn't football...

[Dicky Ticker]

Something else to blame the Greeks for----------they started it;);)

[Spank86]

So who pays for the Police, Amblance crews and the other costs to the NHS and the state as whole casue it isn't football...

Taxes from football pay for it.

[yorkie_chris]

So, all you naysayers and cynics re the Olympics - surely you must be heartened by this glad news?

The common man has reclaimed the upper hand in the power struggle against the overlords.

Will you not all be out with them, showing solidarity for the working masses?

Na, thought not. You'll moan, and moan and moan, then switch on the telly and watch the best bits, whilst opening a bottle/can of your favourite tipple, that has never been so cheap in terms of your weekly pay.

Think very carefully about shouting out either for or against the Olympics. Understand fully what lies behind it all

No will I f***, I don't agree with them but I've better things to do than watch too.

I disagree with the strike because we're on a world stage at that moment and some silly left wing *rsehole wants to play their games and damage the country as a whole.

The Olympics used to be about sport, now its business that is very clear.

Please tell me I'm not the only that just wants to watch sport.

What sport isn't about business?

Sport is the smallest part of the Olympics, it's just another way the government can spend our tax money whilst keeping the average joe happy under the false protense of it being good for our country and economy.

How much is the olympics costing versus the revenue income from it?

[grimey121uk]

No will I f***, I don't agree with them but I've better things to do than watch too.

I disagree with the strike because we're on a world stage at that moment and some silly left wing *rsehole wants to play their games and damage the country as a whole.



What sport isn't about business?



How much is the olympics costing versus the revenue income from it?


What revenue?
Like I said, the main revenue its going to bring is local business just upping their prices whilst the games are on and selling cheap crap made in China with pictures of the Olympics on it (mugs etc). Selling butties to people at a tenner each for 2 weeks isn't an economic boost.

Just look at the amount were spending on defense and security, on the news the other day they were on about fighter jets being on standby, I don't honestly believe that some "terrorist" in a cave is going to launch an air strike against us just because we have some dude running about on a track. On the other point about security against terrorism, if some suicide bomber wanted to kill a ton of people he will just go to a man city vs man utd football game and do it.

Its just another way that the government chuck us a bone once and a while to keep us happy whilst they spend our tax money on crap, I mean 90% of the country is so glad were hosting the games despite all the costs but to be fair i bet less that 1% of them even know anything about athletics.

All I can say is that I work on an IT security related project for the Olympics (cant say any more that that) and I am thinking "its people running up and down a track, WTF do we need computer networks for?". You could say I am benefiting from the Olympics in terms of my employment well I am but the rest of the tax payers are forced into paying our company to implement some system that no one needs or wants!

Oh yeah don't forget to buy more fairy liquid, mc donalds and coca cola as they are official games sponsors!

On the point of business and sport, as much as I hate football they pay they own way, the government don't have to steal my tax money to keep it going!

[grimey121uk]

Taxes from football pay for it.

Yes and the clubs also pay the police/medical services for them to cover to games

[Spank86]

Of course a lot of the costs involved with the Olympics aren't real as they feed back into the uk economy and eventually return to the government.

They're more like a deferred payment.

[MisterTommyH]

How much is the olympics costing versus the revenue income from it?

£9bn Cost
£16.5bn Revenue - Optimistic

(Reported tonight)

Yes and the clubs also pay the police/medical services for them to cover to games
Actually clubs only pay for the police attendances inside the ground. They pay nothing for all the police that are required to control crowds outside club property which, when there is trouble, is where most of it is.

[metalmonkey]

What revenue?
Like I said, the main revenue its going to bring is local business just upping their prices whilst the games are on and selling cheap crap made in China with pictures of the Olympics on it (mugs etc). Selling butties to people at a tenner each for 2 weeks isn't an economic boost.

Just look at the amount were spending on defense and security, on the news the other day they were on about fighter jets being on standby, I don't honestly believe that some "terrorist" in a cave is going to launch an air strike against us just because we have some dude running about on a track. On the other point about security against terrorism, if some suicide bomber wanted to kill a ton of people he will just go to a man city vs man utd football game and do it.

Its just another way that the government chuck us a bone once and a while to keep us happy whilst they spend our tax money on crap, I mean 90% of the country is so glad were hosting the games despite all the costs but to be fair i bet less that 1% of them even know anything about athletics.

All I can say is that I work on an IT security related project for the Olympics (cant say any more that that) and I am thinking "its people running up and down a track, WTF do we need computer networks for?". You could say I am benefiting from the Olympics in terms of my employment well I am but the rest of the tax payers are forced into paying our company to implement some system that no one needs or wants!

Oh yeah don't forget to buy more fairy liquid, mc donalds and coca cola as they are official games sponsors!

On the point of business and sport, as much as I hate football they pay they own way, the government don't have to steal my tax money to keep it going!

Just don't take pespi into any event, casue its evil or according to Lord Coe they aren't on the party list!

I guess its meant to raise the profile of our Country and London however it does kinda seem a chance for people to sell stuff to people that really don't need! Oh wait, sounds like any other day in Western Society.

Wouldn't it be great if was just about sport and bringing people togther.

[hardhat_harry]

So who pays for the Police, Amblance crews and the other costs to the NHS and the state as whole casue it isn't football...

Its not the rest of the public sector, the private sector pays for all this.

[Stingo]

Just so you know, that is complete b0llocks. A lot of service people I know can't believe what a frenzy the media have whipped up about this.

I support our service people as much as any other but my opinion (and that of a number of people I know in there) is that this is part of the job. It's whats the armed forced are for.... a contingency in times of need. (And I know people will argue that this isn't a time of need.... well **** happens. It's not like we could just cancel the games so it has to be dealt with).

Advance notice was given (although not publically) months ago - when units got back from Afganistan. Which leads on to the fact that they are not JUST back.





Agreed!

You'd make a good politician. Your opinion seems be in line with many of those that work in Westminster representing the public, or so they claim. Perhaps you should join the Tory party, or even better the Territorials so you can get a flavour of what things are like in reality.

People do not join up to do every body else's dirty work...let's make that perfectly clear, I don't care who you claim to have spoken to. People join up because they are sold a package that includes a career, some sort of vocational training whilst being paid, the chance of travel, opportunites in sport and other areas such as assistance with further education, assistance with purchasing a house...the list goes on. Sadly the politicians seem to have lost sight of the fact that these people are individuals, and the smaller the forces become, the more individual and important becomes each armed forces persons needs. Doing dirty work for those who fail to plan correctly and then get no benefit whatsoever from that is not in the job spec. However, I will agree that doing what you are told to do when told to do it is part of the job. The armed forces personnel are fully aware of it, and I think you'll find that it is not they who are bitching about this fiasco (but they have the right to do so IMO), but it is the majority of the extremely supportive British public.

Except you of course.

Have a nice day.:smt116

[Bri w]

You'd make good politician. Your opinion seems be in line with many of those that work in Westminster representing the public, or so they claim. Perhaps you should join the Tory party, or even the Territorials so you can get a flavour of what things are like in reality.

People do not join up to do every body else's dirty work...let's make that perfectly clear, I don't care who you claim to have spoken to. People join up because they are sold a package that includes a career, some sort of vocational training whilst be paid, the chance of travel, opportunites in sport and other areas such as assistance with further education, assistance with purchasing a house...the list goes on. Sadly the politicians seem to have lost sight of the fact that these people are individuals, and the smaller the forces become, the more individual and important becomes each armed forces persons needs. Doing dirty work for those who fail to plan correctly and then get no benefit whatsoever from that is not in the job spec. However, doing what you are told to do when told to do it is part of the job. The armed forces personnel are fully aware of it, and I think you'll find that it is not they who are bitching about this fiasco (but they havers right to do so IMO), but it is the majority of the extremely supportive British public.

Except you of course.

Have a nice day.:smt116

Very, very well said!

Using the Olympics and a strike in the same equation is understandable for maximum effect but it's far from patriotic at this time. Its a cynical abuse of the occasion IMO, and says an awful lot about the attitude of the Union leaders and strikers.

As others have said, if you don't like your T&C's go and find something else to do.

[Spank86]

Agree with stingo, I have no sympathy for soldiers families who complain that their sons/daughters are being sent to war, the clues in the job title.

But that doesn't mean they should have their holidays messed up by a private company.

It's not the same as a firemans or prison officers strike where it's a national emergency, the government and G4S should have gone into overdrive and vetted the necessary people quickly.

According to the media half the country's unemployed, the workforce is there, if necessary put them in bigger groups so they can keep an eye on each other.



.

As others have said, if you don't like your T&C's go and find something else to do.

they have, they've found striking, for which they don't get paid.

If they are offered terms and conditions that they do like they'll no doubt go back to work and then get paid.

[Thunderace]

Agree with stingo, I have no sympathy for soldiers families who complain that their sons/daughters are being sent to war, the clues in the job title.

But that doesn't mean they should have their holidays messed up by a private company.

It's not the same as a firemans or prison officers strike where it's a national emergency, the government and G4S should have gone into overdrive and vetted the necessary people quickly.

According to the media half the country's unemployed, the workforce is there, if necessary put them in bigger groups so they can keep an eye on each other.





they have, they've found striking, for which they don't get paid.

If they are offered terms and conditions that they do like they'll no doubt go back to work and then get paid.

Easy there Spank as you know I'm a sqaddie, every time I go on tour my mother & my wife freak out something wicked, just because I volunteered doesn't mean my family no longer have the right to be concerned, or that there opinions suddenly count for nothing. :mad:

[Spank86]

Oh, they are allowed to be concerned but presumably you didn't sign up because you thought the army was there to look pretty?

It's the few (very few) who complain in the papers about the war and slate the government.

If nobody joined the army we'd have a hard time going to war now wouldn't we.

[Thunderace]

I think your view of the army is slightly distorted, sounds to me like you assume all the army is infantry, yes it is a case of soldier 1st tradesman 2nd, but I joined to become a comms guru, get my bachelors in comms science, leave & get a nice office job designing new comms equipment and getting paid well. But it is pretty pink and fluffy to be honest, yes we learn to put up with discomfort, living in field conditions, and treating our bodies to activities that would make you cry, but that said on the whole its an easy job and the last and only time I've been shot at I was in an armoured vehicle and the rounds just tink,tinked off the side. It very much depends on what arm or service you join.

[Spank86]

Whatever arm or service you know what you're getting into when it comes to fighting wars, that's all I'm saying.

You also know that in a national emergency you'll be out on the streets, I just think that those are things you buy into when you join up.

Filling in for private companies because there wasn't sufficient oversight presumably is not.

[Small Clanger]

The simple facts are, unions are supposed to protect the dedicated and hard working, they've been hi-jacked by self serving left wingers in order to line their own pockets, and the idle f-ckers that work for British Coal/Rail/Leyland/Telecom/Gas etc have been hiding behind the dedicated and hardworking, the Forces, the nurses and the emergency services for f-cking decades, along with the invisible pen-pushing c-nts in "Public Service" departments.

Mr Serwotka will, no doubt, have been rubbing his hands together ever since London was awarded the Olympics. It's his big chance to get on breakfast TV, spouting media friendly sound-bites to justify his salary with one eye on his bank account and possible future "consultancy" or "associate director" posts. A bit like the well known multi-millionaire Mr Scargill and others of their ilk. Anyone seen the Kinnocks lately? no, they're busy making millions as MEP's. So much for f-cking Socialism.

Times are changing faster than ever. I personally could'nt give a toss if these d!ckheads go on strike , neither could I care less about someones politics. I merely detest the lazy b-rstards that expect a full days pay for two hours work which seems to be normal practice nowadays.

[Spank86]

You're aware of course that it's been decades since telecom workers went on strike and that it's a private company which doesn't have British in its name?


And also that wages as a % of profits have been falling in The engineering section of BT for at least the last 5 years.

[Small Clanger]

Who do you work for?

[Spank86]

Openreach, a division of the BT(no acronym) group of companies.

Which I'd imagine you're not surprised to hear.

I'm not suggesting I need to be paid more BTW, just that if we're not paid more then they need to cut their prices, and that's true in all companies where staffing costs fall as a % of profits, today's wages are tomorrows profits.

[Small Clanger]

After thirty-odd years in the building trade I've had plenty of time to form an opinion about the BT/Openreach workforce. I would'nt pay any of them with rusty washers. They turn up in droves with a Transit each, f-ck about for three hours doing what two or three of my lads could do in twenty minutes and then go away saying they can't finish the job because the man that connects the orange and white wire is off with a stress related illness.
Anyway, that's beside the point, I'm sure you're the exeption to the rule, hard working and dedicated.

As far as wages as a % of profits falling in the engineering section of BT, it may well be that wages as a % of profits are falling in the rest of the world too. Who knows?

[Spank86]

I'd wager that's second stage, I share your view of them, as do most volume engineers. We voted to significantly degrade our contracts to guarantee their jobs would be safe, almost wish I hadn't.

The guys that pull the cables in are a nightmare, I'm the guy that fixes faults and completes the installs, we work alone and work hard.

Yes it's true accross the world, and it needs to change accross the world because it's what causes the divide between rich and poor to grow and that's bad for the economy. The less people have to spend the less they can spend, so the less they can give to companies to boost their income, employ people and make more rubbish for the people to buy again.

[Small Clanger]

Very true. And as far as I'm concerned it's all one big con. I'm lucky, I started out in the building trade during the miners strike and, as a young man, that left a big impression on my work ethic. I was grateful to have a job and although I worked my nuts off, I made plenty of dosh. Unions were a waste of time in my eyes, they just seemed to cause more problems than they solved and I guess you could say the same now.

As I said before, times are changing faster than ever. Union General Secretaries like Mr Serwotka will be consigned to history along with others like the Bob Diamonds and Jamie Dimons of this world.

In the meantime, I intend to make money, look after the customers and the lads that work for me and, as soon as the accountant tells me how much I've made, spend most of it.

My philosophy is simple. Capitalism=Profit=Ducati=:D No need for strikes or unions.

[Spank86]

Companies generally get the unions they deserve.

I'm a member of the union but only for the legal protection, everyone I work with knows I'll never strike on pay rises no matter what the vote.

But I would strike if they were proposing a large pay cut.

[Bri w]

If they are offered terms and conditions that they do like they'll no doubt go back to work and then get paid.

Tail wagging the dog!

And the absolute, very reason so many industries in this country have gone to the wall. Self serving Union officials lining their pockets at the expense of their members whilst fighting their own political ideals at the expense of the companies that originally employed them. SCUM!

If they fought for better pay and conditions within the obvious constraints of the economic situation we all find ourselves in, along with fighting for the rights of the odd employee who's suffering from a 'victorian' style of mgt I wouldn't have the slightest problem supporting the Union.

Unions have become far too politicised and lost sight of their roots.

[Dicky Ticker]

Here-here

[Biker Biggles]

My experience of unions in recent years must be from a different planet to most of you lot then.Unlike the 1970s I find the union hierarchy is generally much less radical than the front line workforce,and is often unpopular because they concede too much to the management and act to prevent the workforce reacting.Also most disputes I can think of over the last five years have been provoked by employers trying to reduce real terms pay or other conditions rather than unions trying to improve them.Im thinking about reductions in manning,pay cuts or freezes,reductions in holidays or pensions and the like.Yes I accept train drivers are an exception but mostly its about workers trying to avoid being worse off rather than blagging huge rises.Seems to me that the ones doing very nicely and keeping business as usual are the senior executive classes who averaged a 49% pay rise two years ago while the shop floor all took a cut.
Maybe its all different where I work and I need to get into a different union.

[Spank86]

Pot to agree, toast few strikes I remember we're due to reductions in conditions.

Maybe those panning the strikers for not accepting T&Cs should pan the companies for not accepting T&Cs and trying to reduce them.

As for the economic situation the companies that created it are often still making a profit while reducing costs using it as an excuse. I don't want 8% but I know a company who's profits increased by that during the recession but still whined over giving 3%.