Rear brake woes.

[muzikill]

A while back I overhauled the calipers. New fluid, new lines, new pads GG all round. Old pads were hh all round. Im finding the rear brake doesnt bite enough for my liking & im pushing down on that brake pedal a bit too much looking for it. Ive checked it for bleed issues but its tip top. The fronts perfect with gg btw. I was thinking about shoving the old hh pads back in to test it. Tips appreciated.

[svrich]

Does your caliper have two bleed nipples? The curvy one does and I forgot about it the other dy. Much better once bleed through from both.

[sputnik]

I seem to recall that it deemed unsafe to have hh rear pads coupled with gg front ones. Can't quite think why off the top of my head but Google is no doubt your friend. I think the other way round is ok though.

[muzikill]

Pointy has one bleed nipple on the rear caliper. Yeah I noticed just having hh on the rear was deemed unsafe but after the work I did, the front on gg is perfect if I stuck hh on it would bite like buggery tbh.

[NTECUK]

If it feels spongy then re bleed the brake.
If its more springy then have the pads bedded in and every thing free ?
If its just effort and your happy you have every thing moving as it should then maybe do the pad swop.

[Bibio]

it'll take about 100-150 miles till the pads settle in.

[speedyandypandy]

Why would you want to concentrate that much on the rear brake? In my little bubble that's just so wrong for street riding.
Only good that can come out of the rear brake is trail-braking, and if you're not God the only place it should be used is on a track. The rear brake is only good for 10-15% of your total braking power.
Front brake training, training, training and some more training, until you can brake it perfectly with just the front, so when you get in a emergency/panic state your automatically/trained response will already be in your hand, in such a state anyone less than a god can only concentrate on 1 thing, and that 1 thing should be your front brake.
Just my £0.50
Not ranting or meant to come out cross/grumpy, just don't want anyone out there to come into harms way if it can be avoided with a bit off training.

[NTECUK]

God your grumpy.
Some people use them a lot in the rain.
I find mine good on hill starts and low speed maneuvering.
Handy in the Peaks were a fair few roads had gravel that was deep.

[Runako]

Why would you want to concentrate that much on the rear brake? In my little bubble that's just so wrong for street riding.

That is so wrong for so many reasons. A lot of the rear brake vitriol tends to be directed at track riding - "I never use rear brake" etc. Ok fair enough.

But good use of the rear brake will improve regular road riding. This is not to say it has to be used but for those who ride all the time in all conditions, knowing how to use the rear brake is essential.

So you don't use the rear brake when its wet or icy on the roads? You just jam on the front? You don't use it in traffic? Filter through slow traffic on the front brake. What about slow manouvering? A riding instructor will always focus on slow control through use of the rear brake.

Learn to use it.

Sorry I can't help with the brake pad issue btw.

[speedyandypandy]

God your grumpy.
Yes yes, better I take it out on you lot than out on the wife, sofa isn't that nice to sleep on;)

If some people trained to do it properly they should still be using the front brake more than the rear even on the wet stuff:o.
For offroad driving yes rear is ok, but hard or not deep gravel, front brakes there aswell, maybe it takes a bit of training(even easier to lock the front, but getting the feeling and a little training you're your own ABS). There are many roads that lead to Rome, but the most direct and the techinical correct one is front brakes.

Raise your hand if you've ever trained braking after you passed the licence, and not just on trackdays or what not, I mean really trained just braking? :smt041
If your not raising your hand, go look in a mirror and say "This is the person that's responsible for my safety"


-speedygrumpypandy(not the same ring to it)

[speedyandypandy]

So you don't use the rear brake when its wet or icy on the roads? You just jam on the front? You don't use it in traffic?

I don't jam any brakes(well maybe I did once or twice jam the car brakes in panic, but thats years and years since last time). Jamming brakes are for *nastyword* that shouldn't be riding, they should be training.

Wet and icy roads, don't do icy roads, but no I use front and easy engine braking even in heavy rain, but I don't ride like an idiot in those conditions, which is called good planning by the way, if you're riding so fast in these conditions that you need heavy braking your not planning ahead or reading the conditions right. Why would I need the rear in traffic when you have the front brake. Is the rear a supersub for correct useage of the front?

[Runako]

If some people trained to do it properly they should still be using the front brake more than the rear even on the wet stuff:o. For offroad driving yes rear is ok, but hard or not deep gravel, front brakes there aswell, maybe it takes a bit of training(even easier to lock the front, but getting the feeling and a little training you're your own ABS). There are many roads that lead to Rome, but the most direct and the techinical correct one is front brakes.


Interesting. Everyone learns from experience and that may be yours. My experience is very different. Many have said "never use the rear", especially on track. So I said "why not?" and through research and practice whilst riding I have I've incorporated rear braking into all my riding.

Non ABS bike. When emergency stopping, you will slow down more quickly with "good" application of both. That means not locking the rear, but same goes for the front. This is a fact.

When in the wet, gentle rear brake can assist in normal slowing/stops rather than heavier application of the front, to minimize front lock. Personal choice but works for me and I ride a lot all year round.

Adjusting lines in a corner. Learning to use the rear "effectively" means not upsetting the balance by having to use the front. Yes it is correcting a small mistake but no ones perfect and its all a learning experience. You do not want to be grabbing front brake in a corner.

Track (controversial topic). I use it! On a long straight I've learned to use it near the end of my braking to aid my last bits of slowing down, usually when easing up on the front. It works for me. Also used to adjust line in a corner.

Best reason to learn to use the rear brake - Like any part of the bike, its there for a reason. If you don't know how to use it to the limit in most situations then you'll never get the maximum out of the bike. I'm not talking about speed here. I'm talking about using the bike effectively to become a better rider.

[Runako]

Wet and icy roads, don't do icy roads, but no I use front and easy engine braking even in heavy rain, but I don't ride like an idiot in those conditions, which is called good planning by the way, if you're riding so fast in these conditions that you need heavy braking your not planning ahead or reading the conditions right. Why would I need the rear in traffic when you have the front brake. Is the rear a supersub for correct useage of the front?

You can plan all you want but there are conditions in which no amount of planning will help. Black ice is one, believe me I've been there. Going around a roundabout and finding black ice is no fun, in fact you need a bit of luck most of the time. The point is you should be familiar with how to use all of the bike if needed.

You don't use the rear in traffic? Well you must have a very well set up bike. Front application at slow speed usually causes a bit of diving. If doing a lot of urban riding this becomes very noticeable and stessful on the arms (stop start, stop start). Why not use the rear? This is not "hard braking". We're talking more measured braking, front and rear even. But less front, less diving. You can't always use engine braking to be precise.

The back is very effective I find for slow control and precision. I could ride much slower than walking pace on the back. In fact I make not having to stop completely when approaching traffic into a practice/game in using the back brake.

I can't be the only one can I?

[speedyandypandy]

I don't get front diving with smooth braking, and no I normally don't do heavy traffic and filtering, I do long(ish >200km) trips and go-kart track(once a weekish), go to a big track 1-2 a year, I live outside any mayor city and when I go out for a small steam outlet I'm already in the countryside. This is fun http://youtu.be/c551D4lqF2M

[NTECUK]

Ok stop willy waving and sort out the op issue .
You two see me after school :smt011

[Bibio]

another one for using the back brake and i use it a lot and mostly in conjunction with the front.

as long as you don't pull the clutch in your fine. only time i use my back without the clutch is coming to a stop at under 10mph such as traffic lights. it's when people use the back brake hard and pull the clutch in is when problems start.

during my lessons i was asked how i was able to stop the bike so quick so i told them and they told me to stop it to which i replied 'feck off'. even my examiner was impressed when i done my emergency stop.

driving schools teach people to pass a test not ride a bike and most people take what they have been taught by the school as the gospel so continue to do what they were taught.

[jambo]

Back to the OP.

I can't think of a reason you couldn't have HH in the rear, and GG in the front if that's what gets you the feel you like. The logic may be that you'd get more friction from the rear than you'd expect compared to the front, but on a bike you adjust both independently anyway. In a car, I can see this making the brake bias a bit odd.

I'd say, assuming you've actually bedded the GG pads in properly (a number of firm braking actions from high-ish speed without overheating anything over a fair number of miles) by all means put in the HHs and see how they feel.

On the curvy, the caliper is, if anything more powerful than required and mine gets through a selection of EBC green and Armstrong or similar GG pads, based purely on what's cheaply and readily available, regardless of whats in the front.

Jambo

[speedyandypandy]

Ok stop willy waving and sort out the op issue .
You two see me after school :smt011
Yes Sir, sorry Sir, not the stick Sir, I promise to behave Sir.

[speedyandypandy]

Ok, I'll get serious.
Did you wash the pads and discs before installing new pads? Brake cleaner might be strong enough, but some nasty CRC Quick Clean will do the trick. Car mechanics thought me that one while working in the same workshop just not with cars. And find a nice straight with close to no traffic where you can highspeed brake with the rear safely, clean out all the ventholes in the discs, sometime pad material shouldn't mix with other pad materials(or so I've been told by car mechs). Obvious the last question is did you grease up the old pots or service them?

[Runako]

Apologies y'all no more thread spamming. Hope OP gets it sorted ... so sort him out you lot?!