View Full Version : Attempted Robbery @ Ducati Croydon
Fallout
10-09-12, 12:45 PM
Arggghghghgghghghghgh! You know my thoughts on this Stenno.
yorkie_chris
10-09-12, 12:50 PM
Arrgh if only he'd have been a second quicker getting that bar as they rode off.
m1tch_1987
10-09-12, 12:50 PM
Why don't the bikes inside the store have locks on?
daveyrach
10-09-12, 12:53 PM
How did they intend to start the bikes? Also can they not find one of them from the scooter reg number which can be read?
yorkie_chris
10-09-12, 12:56 PM
How did they intend to start the bikes? Also can they not find one of them from the scooter reg number which can be read?
Push into the van we didn't see and sort that out later?
Other bikes involved almost certainly nicked.
daveyrach
10-09-12, 12:58 PM
Why would you wear a hi-vis on a nicked bike? Looked a lot like his own.
yes was a bit annoyed it was pushed over :)
Hope they get attempted murder, grand larceny and benefit fraud thrown at them.
SHame they didnt just sit on the hi vis guy whilst waiting for the cops.. I hope they catch the thieving toe rags
dizzyblonde
10-09-12, 01:13 PM
WOW!!
I'm absolutely astonished!
The lockstops are off the bikes instore, I believe... so if some numpty sits on one, then if it falls over, there will be less damage?
And pretty stupid if there wasn't a van hiding round the corner, not that they would get far pushing them anyway, so I see it being a pretty pointless exercise on the thieves account.
Not well thought after in broad daylight, brave youngsters without a brain.
Either way.......totally shameful!
m1tch_1987
10-09-12, 01:19 PM
*Mitch suggests landmines*
carpet monster
10-09-12, 01:21 PM
The guy in the hi viz has "defrocked" himself on youtube saying he wasn't involved...
dizzyblonde
10-09-12, 01:24 PM
*Mitch suggests landmines*
But that would damage the merchandise.....or do you mean the brown smelly sort, thats highly incovenient?
Small Clanger
10-09-12, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE=daveyrach;2769272]How did they intend to start the bikes?
One sits on the stolen bike, one guy on the scooter puts his foot on stolen bike foot-peg, scooter pushes stolen bike down the road.
That's how I got mine anyway.:D
Owenski
10-09-12, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=daveyrach;2769272]How did they intend to start the bikes?
One sits on the stolen bike, one guy on the scooter puts his foot on stolen bike foot-peg, scooter pushes stolen bike down the road.
That's how I got mine anyway.:D
Seen this done, not to steel a bike but a scooter boy helping his mate towards the petrol station.
Hi-viz had to be involved, he's got a tyre iron in his hand.
what bugs me is if they get caught the staff member will get done with assault.
this country is going to the dogs and something needs to be done. stiffer sentences and no toys in cells with a good hosing down every day for habitual offenders. make the prisons somewhere you really really don't want to go.
yorkie_chris
10-09-12, 02:04 PM
Hi-viz had to be involved, he's got a tyre iron in his hand.
It is Croydon though...
Fallout
10-09-12, 02:15 PM
what bugs me is if they get caught the staff member will get done with assault.
If that does indeed happen I suggest organising some sort of protest ride out!
tactcom7
10-09-12, 02:19 PM
Well played to the first staff member, 1 v 4 and he still kept the bike!
What an astonishing video, brazen is not the word.
Bit gutted mr high vis got away though, kudos on pushing him over twice that man.
Owenski
10-09-12, 02:19 PM
It is Croydon though...
I've just watched it a few times through and its a hammer from under his seat, it only comes out when he gets pushed off the scooter and his seat pops open.
How mortified would you be if that were you and you were just in the wrong place wrong time etc... I'd be expecting a nice apology ducati some time soon lol.
he would as he actively pushed the person off the ped without provoke. it's ok to defend yourself but to a point once past that point it becomes retaliation. the staff member should not have tried to stop the thieves and just phoned the police and any good brief would have the staff members up in court for assault. everyone knows this is wrong but that's what your supposed to do as its an act of theft and not life threatening, if the assailants turn on you then you are allowed to defend yourself (within reason using reasonable force which is a very very grey area).
i could go all tinfoil hat but i'm in a good mood :-)
tactcom7
10-09-12, 02:29 PM
Or you could just say you genuinely felt your life was being threatened (as in, the guy had a claw hammer and was swinging it at me) and then you're pretty much covered.
Good job
Only the guy in white seems to overstep the mark...
that was after the fact. and would not have happened if they thieves were allowed to get their swag. yes in court the thieves would get done with attempted theft but the staff would get done with aggravated assault. all the the thieves need to say in court is they were forced to do it for monetary value as they were desperate to which they would get a tag and fine for the attempted theft. but the staff started the assault and would come out of it worse as the thieves would claim they were defending themselves. the theft part would hardly come into it and would be a minor point in the trial if someone were to be seriously harmed.
tactcom7
10-09-12, 02:40 PM
A fair point, long gone are the days of an englishman's home is his castle etc. But having said that, the recent spate of burglars being killed and the homeowners walking free is encouraging. In the nicest possible way.
They went armed which has to go against them.
Fallout
10-09-12, 02:40 PM
I've just watched it a few times through and its a hammer from under his seat, it only comes out when he gets pushed off the scooter and his seat pops open.
How mortified would you be if that were you and you were just in the wrong place wrong time etc... I'd be expecting a nice apology ducati some time soon lol.
I've watched it too mate, and I think it's obvious he's involved. He turns up at exactly the same time (I bet there's other CCTV to show him riding along with them earlier), and he goes up to the door with them. If people are dragging a bike out of a door with shout and screaming (presumably) you don't run right up to touching distance before realising the shop isn't open for usual business! :D Plus he rode off with them.
he would as he actively pushed the person off the ped without provoke. it's ok to defend yourself but to a point once past that point it becomes retaliation. the staff member should not have tried to stop the thieves and just phoned the police and any good brief would have the staff members up in court for assault. everyone knows this is wrong but that's what your supposed to do as its an act of theft and not life threatening, if the assailants turn on you then you are allowed to defend yourself (within reason using reasonable force which is a very very grey area).
i could go all tinfoil hat but i'm in a good mood :-)
I don't know mate. I know exactly where you're coming from, and I think there is a chance he could be done, but I think the innocents being prosecuted thing has been exaggerated by the press a lot. In that instance I think he could indeed face charges, but I don't think he'd be convicted as he wasn't really that violent. He pushed them, then retreated, then pushed again!
At least, that's what I'd hope would happen. The paper would have you believe he'd be hung drawn and quatered for that crime, and his children put on spikes on London Bridge, but in reality I think this only normally happens in more extreme situations.
tactcom7
10-09-12, 02:42 PM
The Daily Mail would have you believe he'd be hung drawn and quatered for that crime, and his children put on spikes on London Bridge,
Corrected for you mate ;)
Fallout
10-09-12, 02:44 PM
For once, an accurate correction. :D
ClunkintheUK
10-09-12, 02:49 PM
I am pretty sure you are allowed to use reasonable force for the protection of property to. Obviously that force is not as great as self preservation.
It does look like the guy in the high viz had nothing to do with it. To me it does not look like he attacked anyone, and he only got the hammer out when the ducati guy pushed him over (i.e. self defence) he never swung it back (i am fairly sure there is case law giving this as the definition as intent to use), and backed off as soon as soon as the imediate threat to him passed. He then put the hammer back in his scooter, and was about to ride off when the ducati guy pushed him over again. (bear in mind that the scooter rider at this point did not have anything in his hand.)
If I were a ducati executive, i'd be VERY annoyed at staff at this shop. Not only is there a potential assault charge, ok permissiable in the heat of the moment and an appology from the staff member directly would go a very long way to righting that (if it were me). But then posting a video on youtube, branding someone a criminal before a trial has taken place, with company name all over it. It will also likely make it harder to secure a prosecution, if they do catch them, the crims can claim that they wouldn't get a fair hearing etc.
But +1 good on the first staff member. 1 v 3 and kept hold of the bike.
Owenski
10-09-12, 02:49 PM
I'm not saying he was/wasn't involved. I just think it would a proper head scratcher if it happened to me, in fairness its the sort of thing that would happen to me.
Fallout
10-09-12, 02:54 PM
True. You would be slightly miffed. But if he'd piled in and taken out one of the thieving scallywags, there would've been no confusion!
WOW! Scallywag doesn't come up on spell checker. :D
tactcom7
10-09-12, 02:54 PM
It does look like the guy in the high viz had nothing to do with it. To me it does not look like he attacked anyone, and he only got the hammer out when the ducati guy pushed him over (i.e. self defence) he never swung it back (i am fairly sure there is case law giving this as the definition as intent to use), and backed off as soon as soon as the imediate threat to him passed.
Seriously??
Self defence is putting your hands up to defend yourself. it is NOT chasing after a guy with a hammer who has already backed off.
yorkie_chris
10-09-12, 03:02 PM
Seriously??
Self defence is putting your hands up to defend yourself. it is NOT chasing after a guy with a hammer who has already backed off.
Not exactly true.
Aside from this case, there are times when aggressive action is allowed in law*, and it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
*Who the hell cares about this anyway. The only thing of interest is what you can get away with the CPS thinking is enough of a 50/50 to not bother with pursuing a prosecution.
Milky Bar Kid
10-09-12, 03:19 PM
The vid doesn't work for me!!!!
tactcom7
10-09-12, 03:20 PM
Not exactly true.
I stand corrected, said the man in the orthopaedic shoes....
Looking at the body language of Mr Hi Vis , I wouldn't condem him off hand.
Fallout
10-09-12, 03:59 PM
If I was a juror, I would! :)
ClunkintheUK
10-09-12, 04:07 PM
Seriously??
Self defence is putting your hands up to defend yourself. it is NOT chasing after a guy with a hammer who has already backed off.
Yeah. I am serious.
Not saying its open and shut, few self defense cases are. My point was that he never raised the hammer, which I seem to remember being the point at which "using a deadly weapon" occurs, or what the law would deem "chasing after with a hammer" necessarily. True you can say the guy has been a bit of a muppet if he is innocent (i.e. why didn't he make like a sheperd and get the flock out of there), but the video does not prove either his connection with the three others or guilt.
tactcom7
10-09-12, 04:11 PM
what about him laying his grubby hands all over the bike when its sticking out the door?
squirrel_hunter
10-09-12, 06:19 PM
I've never been in a bike shop where the bikes inside have been locked up. This is because if you want to sit on a bike to see what its like you can, you can move the bars and get a feel for it. It also helps the sales staff as they don't need to spend 5 minutes getting the keys to pull a bike out of the line so you can get a better look at it.
Looking at the video I would expect that the intention was to get the bike out of the shop and then push the stolen bikes along with the mopeds. I wouldn't fancy doing that, but there are a few videos on line of it happening.
As for the staff that stood up to these scum, total respect.
But there is a lot of speculation regarding an adverse outcome for these members of staff, which I feel is misinformed. The staff are allowed to go hands on with reasonable force to protect the property. I only saw reasonable force from them and I would find it very hard to believe that there would be any prosecution on them. At the beginning there was some pushing and shoving which is usual in a shoplifting theft and at least one attempt at a detain, which again is allowed. The gang then come back with weapons, the staff need to defend themselves. But there were no fists flying and nothing unreasonable from the staff. The staff handled the situation very well.
As for the speculation regarding the chap in the hi vis, I'll join in. Anybody here travel around with just a hammer in their top box?
Owenski
10-09-12, 06:19 PM
Been a soppy git, I like to think what happened was he turned up on his scooter thinking he'd take a look at some big bikes. Maybe arrange a test ride as he just turned 21 and that sticky starter on his scooter won't last for ever now he needs to use a hammer to cold start it.
So with his ear phones, music on loud in and his spirits high he arrives at the store to see someone struggling to get a bike out and slowly makes his wa over before deciding to help. As soon as he does all hell breaks loose, stuff doesn't add up and to make it worse this bloke in the white shirt looks pretty ****ed.
Decides to flee as something here is a-miss. On doing so crazy white shirt man pushes him off his scooter an his handy starter hammer falls near by, picking it he rushes the white shrt man before realising other people have weapons too. Goes back to his scooter and gets pushed again.
Now proper confused he struggles to start his scooter and when he eventually does he nearly gets run over by a bar wielding nut job.
Well that's one option, the other is he's a scrote
tactcom7
10-09-12, 06:24 PM
What a romantic story!
sv_rory
10-09-12, 06:24 PM
Give them the chair!!!
Fallout
10-09-12, 06:30 PM
What a romantic story!
It was beautifully told. I almost wept.
SoulKiss
10-09-12, 06:35 PM
It is Croydon though...
Hey - thats < 5 mins walk from my house that is!!!
The Shop deserves it tho.
The sales guy caught me looking at the RC8 once and now everytime I go past he tries to tempt me into a test ride - bang out of order that :p
Hope the oxygen thieves get caught
Owenski
10-09-12, 08:28 PM
I'm glad you both approve!
Sad truth is, even if that guy is the orchestrator of it all any brief will be able to get that story down as reasonable and he'll not get touched.
Dabteacake
10-09-12, 08:46 PM
copied and pasted from your post no doubt! have to charge him for the work lol
If you have a hammer in your hand I think in all honest belief your going to hit me I can quite lawfully smack you in the face aslong as the attack doesnt last longer than the threat
The Idle Biker
10-09-12, 08:50 PM
They looked like useless brainless kids to me. Possibly set up for a challenge by more 'senior' useless criminals.
Top marks to the staff. Seen loads of posts elsewhere from people saying they would do this that and the other to the wannabe crim's. Most people bottle it when they see crime in action.
Hope Ducati show meaningful appreciation to the staff.
missyburd
10-09-12, 08:55 PM
Took a lot of balls to react the way the staff did, I wouldn't dare take on nutters from Croydon...but then I wouldn't dare work there either :lol: Could have turned horribly nasty, lucky the staff were a lot bigger....see the person in the pink lid, almost as subtle as the high-vis :rolleyes:
I'm just disappointed there wasn't one attempt of a stocking over the helmet, complete amateurs. Pah.
dizzyblonde
10-09-12, 09:09 PM
Usually though, and I do have first hand experience, of small time thieves nicking masses of booze on a supermarket sweep(I used to be part of the security team in Tesco many moons ago) theres always one weak enough to disarm or disable ... and that many blokes sit on him, til the coppers come.
Well.....they used to in Tesco, it was like a WWF tag team challenge between the student lads on a Saturday, how many lads can squash a tea leaf before he escaped!!!
Would you sit on him with a load of armed yobs on his side?
dizzyblonde
10-09-12, 09:34 PM
He was the last to feck off, I'm surprised they didn't try to detain him. I know wielding a tyre wrench or hammer isn't the sort of thing one would want to brave....
Although, come to think about it, when the Dingles lived next door I had a meat cleaver waved around in a very threatening manner at me( the bloke was as high as a kite, 3am in the morning) and one of the other neighbours came along and disarmed him before the coppers came.
So, it is possible.....if you are brave enough
(I wouldn't do it)
Fallout
10-09-12, 09:37 PM
I'd do it. I've watched every episode of 24. I'm an expert. :)
dizzyblonde
10-09-12, 09:40 PM
:lol:
I still can't get over the total cheek of broad daylight attack!
He was the last to feck off...
Good point!
I'd do it. I've watched every episode of 24. I'm an expert. :)
Doing something is different to watching it :p;):lol:
Owenski
11-09-12, 08:36 AM
Just looking at it again, the scooters tear off.
The one with the 2 lads on goes off and turns right but the high-viz slows right up and looks to pull back up on the left.
Spank86
11-09-12, 10:58 AM
If thre Hi viz guy wasnt involved then he's the unluckiest bloke going, he moves exactly in concert with the ones who ARE invovled.
tactcom7
11-09-12, 03:57 PM
Well the video is now on the MSN homepage, and according to them there were 6 thieves, including mr hi-viz!
squirrel_hunter
11-09-12, 04:38 PM
The guy in the hi viz has "defrocked" himself on youtube saying he wasn't involved...
Link?
Mr Speirs
11-09-12, 04:50 PM
How is there any doubt that the guy in the Hi-Viz was involved?
He arrives at the same time as the would be thieves, tries to help get the bike out the front door, wields a hammer when he is pushed off his scooter and leaves with the would be thieves.
The guy is blatantly involved...
If he wasn't, I'd assume he would do what I would do. After being pushed off my bike by some big chap I would not reach for a hammer but simply take my helmet off and call the police to report an assault and damage to my bike. I certainly would not flee the scene if I was the innocent party.
I assume he has still not come forward to the police to report the damage, pretty obvious why...
Small Clanger
11-09-12, 05:32 PM
It was obviously Hi-Vis's first armed robbery so he had to wear the novice's vest. :D
Link?
There are a lot of comments that have been removed. They were around page 8 or so from the oldest comments.
Specialone
11-09-12, 06:59 PM
How is there any doubt that the guy in the Hi-Viz was involved?
He arrives at the same time as the would be thieves, tries to help get the bike out the front door, wields a hammer when he is pushed off his scooter and leaves with the would be thieves.
I agree mate, anyone who thinks different is either a troll or needs to book an appointment at specsavers asap.
Hindsights a great thing but i bet they wish they wouldve grabbed one of the little ****s now, they were kids, you can tell by their body language, they were trying to be threatening with the tools but if they really wanted to hurt someone with them they could of.
Wouldnt you just love to catch them and turn the cctv off :smt062
dizzyblonde
11-09-12, 07:25 PM
Not just body language, but their whole build and frame sizes, point to them being under 20. They look like they are yet to mature......even with a lid on.
yorkie_chris
12-09-12, 07:54 AM
It was obviously Hi-Vis's first armed robbery so he had to wear the novice's vest. :D
Lol!
:smt082
Dabteacake
12-09-12, 07:55 AM
Don't see how Hi vis was not involved tbh. If i saw what their actions on a tape in a court room I would guess he was part of the robbery as why else would they have a hammer under his/her seat
squirrel_hunter
13-09-12, 12:37 PM
It would appear the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19563268) are reporting that there were 6 of them...
Mr Speirs
13-09-12, 02:41 PM
Oh...didnt realise but right at the end they throw a metal bar and it appears to hit one of the staff members on the back of the head!! Didn't see that the first time round.
Specialone
13-09-12, 10:18 PM
Oh...didnt realise but right at the end they throw a metal bar and it appears to hit one of the staff members on the back of the head!! Didn't see that the first time round.
Nope i missed that too, it defo strikes him on the head, he wobbles a bit too by the looks of it.
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