View Full Version : Crossing a footpath to get to my garden
Right I had someone taking photos of my bikes last week when I was in Donington and thougth that maybe it was some council **** getting evedence of my bikes crossing the footpath to gain access to my front garden. Now I use my neighbours crop kerb to get over the said foot path. I push the bike to the kerb in the morning and evening.
Not sure where I stand tried to google it but most if for push irons!!!
as long as the engine is not running i think your entitled. or maybe its someone taking pics to pinch it.
Milky Bar Kid
11-09-12, 01:16 AM
Build a bridge, hth
keith_d
11-09-12, 05:43 AM
I believe there is a limit to how far you can push/drive your bike on the pavement to reach a parking spot. I can't remember whether it's 15 or 25 meters, but it's a fair distance.
So if you think you have a neighbour who's looking to raise a complaint you might want to look out the precise details (as well as locking the bike securely).
Don't know if this (http://www.brent.gov.uk/transportation.nsf/Files/LBBA-131/$FILE/Domestic%20Vehicle%20Crossover%20Policy%20-%20Final%20Version%20(1%2010%2008).pdf) is of any use. The relevant word is "footway".
As written it is pretty prohibitive, but that's the way these things usually are. It's referring to cars etc, not sure how a motorcycle would be viewed legally.
It'd have to be a pretty stroppy council who took action against pushing a motorcycle across, but I wouldn't put it past some of them, I mean they are awash with money and staff with nothing to do after all ;).
Spank86
11-09-12, 05:27 PM
Worth nothing that legally a footway and a footpath are not the same thing, laymans guide is a footway would run along a roadway. A footpath generally would not and will often stand alone or be alongside a cycle path.
You're crossing a footway and it's illegal to obstruct it or take a motor vehicle on it unless crossing to enter a property and the footway has been adapted for it.
Driving/riding on a footpath however is a civil not criminal matter but still not permitted except in the same circumstances.
That said its not a law that's generally enforced everywhere.
suzukigt380paul
11-09-12, 06:52 PM
what ever is legal or illegal,just down the road from me there lives a copper.and for about 4 years he parked his car on a busy A road,half on the footpath and half on the road,day and night,the foot path is not particularly wide and would have made the path very narrow,so it would seem one rule for us and one rule for them!
tigersaw
11-09-12, 06:57 PM
Round our way the pavements (I'll call them pavements not footways) are used for parking every night, sometimes with little room to squeeze past, though I always manage. I wonder what the ruling would be if I hurt myself on a mirror as I went through - or would it be deemed I was behaving recklessly to try.
what ever is legal or illegal,just down the road from me there lives a copper.and for about 4 years he parked his car on a busy A road,half on the footpath and half on the road,day and night,the foot path is not particularly wide and would have made the path very narrow,so it would seem one rule for us and one rule for them!
Why? does the local constabulary say it's ok for him to do it? or does he simply do it because he can. I would assume the latter.
suzukigt380paul
11-09-12, 07:01 PM
Why? does the local constabulary say it's ok for him to do it? or does he simply do it because he can. I would assume the latter.i thought that the problem with parking on a narrow footpath was with prams/push chairs and wheel chairs
i thought that the problem with parking on a narrow footpath was with prams/push chairs and wheel chairs
If you can't get though then report the vehicle to the council?
suzukigt380paul
11-09-12, 07:23 PM
If you can't get though then report the vehicle to the council?i tend not to stir up the local plod,as it can come back to haunt you,and i never used the footpath,but ther are many house along this road and it would have been up to them to complain,and may be they did as he doesn't park on the path anymore
...and i never used the footpath....
Then you have no reason to cause a fuss and moan about it on the internet!
suzukigt380paul
11-09-12, 08:06 PM
Then you have no reason to cause a fuss and moan about it on the internet!more stating facts about footpaths in my area, then moaning
Spank86
11-09-12, 08:21 PM
Round our way the pavements (I'll call them pavements not footways) are used for parking every night, sometimes with little room to squeeze past, though I always manage. I wonder what the ruling would be if I hurt myself on a mirror as I went through - or would it be deemed I was behaving recklessly to try.
From an engineering standpoint the pavement is the entire road and footpath, essentially all the metalled bits.
Not trying to be pedantic, well not too much, just letting people know.
It's my property but have no lowered kerb. The distance between kerb and garden is about 8 feet away.
Just at a total loss of the law on this thats all.
Spank86
13-09-12, 01:08 PM
Pretty sure the law is that its illegal but that you'd not often see it enforced in the absence of complaints.
dizzyblonde
13-09-12, 02:12 PM
I had a man and a clip board come some years ago with regards to me dropping my curb.
Ten years later I never got round to it, too expensive.
The bloke said it is illegal to ride over a footpath to a 'garden' however, as he was a biker himself, said, 'its a bicycle' ;) 'Nobody can stop you pushing your bicycle over to your garden via a raised curb' as long as the engine isn't running.
look at your tax disk, what does it say?
As an aside....I drive my great big 4x4 over my non dropped curb, and nobody has ever complained, as most people have better things to do with their time!
The Guru
13-09-12, 02:18 PM
...
look at your tax disk, what does it say?..
So does that mean that I can use my local cycle lanes?
I think not.
dizzyblonde
13-09-12, 02:28 PM
No, because for that you need your engine running ;)
For the purposes of crossing a pavement, if your engine is not running, its a bicycle, and there is no law to say you cannot push it into your garden from the road.
The Guru
13-09-12, 03:16 PM
But even with the engine off its still defined as a mechanically propelled vehicle.
dizzyblonde
13-09-12, 03:59 PM
It is defined as a mechanically propelled engine, I agree.....so, how do they fathom calling it a bicycle? :lol:
Regardless of the above, if the engine isn't running and you have no key in the ignition to start it and propell it, it is still acceptable to push a motorcycle across a pavement into your garden.
I'd like to know what one of our force members think of this little problem! :D
Spank86
13-09-12, 04:06 PM
Because it IS a motorised bicycle?
The Guru
14-09-12, 07:42 AM
It is defined as a mechanically propelled engine, I agree.....so, how do they fathom calling it a bicycle? :lol:
Regardless of the above, if the engine isn't running and you have no key in the ignition to start it and propell it, it is still acceptable to push a motorcycle across a pavement into your garden.
I'd like to know what one of our force members think of this little problem! :D
A motor vehicle means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on roads. So even if you push it your motorcycle is still intended for use on a road.
Even by pushing it your still in control of the vehicles speed and direction.
If you pushed you motorbike into a parked car, going by your reckoning because you were pushing it at the time its only a bicycle, so does that mean that your not required to be insured or taxed? :rolleyes:
A footpath is a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only. (with the exception of dropped kerbs).
So although the sensible approach would be to allow you to push it across a pavement to your garden, I would say that the law doesn't allow it.
But thats just my interpretation and opinion.
dizzyblonde
14-09-12, 08:06 AM
If you pushed you motorbike into a parked car, going by your reckoning because you were pushing it at the time its only a bicycle, so does that mean that your not required to be insured or taxed? :ro.
That's just being really silly!
Spank86
14-09-12, 08:18 AM
Actually, turns out the government advice is:
"You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property"
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309
No mention of the pavement needing to be adapted.
dizzyblonde
14-09-12, 08:28 AM
'Drive'..... Where's the 'push' part? :)
Spank86
14-09-12, 08:36 AM
none, but if you can drive you can push.
Not entirely sure the legal definition of drive but if it means operate or control a vehicle then pushing is included.
My point on that last post was that according to the highway code it is perfectly legal as long as you're not using it to ram raid or trespass.
dizzyblonde
14-09-12, 08:40 AM
Well.....if the government printed that.....it must be true! ;)
Much as I'd love to ram raid my own property with a two tonne landrover, I think I'd prefer to leave the car in one piece!
The Guru
14-09-12, 08:47 AM
That's just being really silly!
No its not.
Dicky Ticker
14-09-12, 08:47 AM
Unfotunately the only way to cross the pavement with a vehicle for access to property is where a legally installed drop kerb or driveway has been installed.
END OFF-------doesn't matter if you push it as you are still in control same as you are deemed in control of a car if you are sitting in the drivers seat,keys in ignition engine off,hand brake applied and stationery.
The law has some strange quirks which seem unfair regarding prosecutions but the law is the law and the same for everybody just a matter of knowing it, as ignorance is no excuse
Spank86
14-09-12, 09:29 AM
Unfotunately the only way to cross the pavement with a vehicle for access to property is where a legally installed drop kerb or driveway has been installed.
how'd you figure that?
Got a source?
Id read the link I posted as saying that you can cross pavement where you are legally allowed to access the property, so its your property or the owner has given you permission.
If you add in the laws on footpaths, bridleways and restricted roads you're allowed on them where you are within 15yards from the road for the purpose of parking as long as you dont cause an obstruction I'd say theres a lot of evidence that you can do it.
how'd you figure that?
Got a source?
Id read the link I posted as saying that you can cross pavement where you are legally allowed to access the property, so its your property or the owner has given you permission.
If you add in the laws on footpaths, bridleways and restricted roads you're allowed on them where you are within 15yards from the road for the purpose of parking as long as you dont cause an obstruction I'd say theres a lot of evidence that you can do it.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309
"You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency."
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10026223
"A crossing across a public footpath or verge that allows your vehicle to gain access to your property from the highway is known as a 'dropped kerb' or vehicle crossing."
Sniff has stated he is NOT using a dropped kerb therefore it is Illegal for him to move any form of motor vehicle across the pavement to the road.
Dicky Ticker
14-09-12, 11:29 AM
One of our drivers got nicked for going across the pavement to deliver to a house.
He stopped ,reversed up a loose chipped driveway on the property to deliver a lathe using the vehicle tail-lift into the customers garage.
When he was exiting the premises a local plod was walking past and pulled him for driving over the pavement.
We contacted our solicitor who explained it to me as I stated in my previous post.
I admit this was a 7.5ton truck but it applies to any mechanical propelled vehicle and although it was a driveway on the property the pavement or kerb had not been incorporated into the access.
Me,I can't tell you if it is right or wrong but only say what happened to us.
squirrel_hunter
14-09-12, 12:45 PM
All I can add is I rode my bike along the pavement (maybe 100 meters or so) to get to the nearest drive when I used to park in the front garden of my Uni house as it was a very high curb. I did this at all times of the day and night multiple times a day for over 2 years. It was also a busy main road in Bristol.
No one said a word about it. Apart from my neighbour once who got distracted by me riding past her she walked past her house completely...
Actually, turns out the government advice is:.............
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070309
The trouble with these guides, even if they are from the gov.uk stable, is that they are paraphrased versions dumbed down for us general plebs. You really need to refer to the relevant statutory instrument or act in order to get the definitive version.
In this case they have clearly used the term "pavement" incorrectly, obviously intending to indicate the footway but as pointed out earlier in the thread, the pavement is something different. This is why legal stuff is so carefully drafted (usually) and why dumbing it down doesn't always clarify.
dizzyblonde
14-09-12, 02:08 PM
Well, I got permission from the man with a clipboard on behalf of the council....to push my motorcycle onto my property off the road, over the pavement, over the council owned grass, and into my garden
So ner!
:D
I think you are right Dizz, if you are pushing your bike it appears from this http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/pushing.html that you are ok to do so and classed as foot passenger, the sentence at the bottom clarifies that this applies to both push bikes and motorbikes.
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