Plumbers

[Amadeus]

I've just moved into a new house which doesn't have thermostatic radiator valves so I got a quote for installing them from my new next door neighbour who is a plumber (recommended). The quote is basically as follows:

15 x Drayton trv4 TRV
1 x Drayton automatic bypass valve refill system and dose with sentinel x100 inhibitor
15 x Drayton lock shield valves
1 x furnox tf1 filter or magiclean unit
Carry out power flush using sentinel x800

It will apparently take 3-4 days and cost about £1900 incl VAT.

Could a plumber say if that's in the right ballpark?

Thanks

[johnnyrod]

HOW MUCH? I presume you're replacing the lockshield valves because they're old, good call otherwise waste of money. Installing 15 TRVS is an all-day job. Auto bypass, waste of time if you have a manual bypass already, I assume you have a fully pumped system. Magnets, great in an old house, powerflush is a luxury unles you have cold rads or money on your hands. My 2p. 2 days max with everything you have there but powerflush is time-consuming. Get more quotes if you like, looks like a lot to me, it's called growing a job.

[Specialone]

Is he putting a new boiler in for that too?

It is a fair bit of messing around but I allow £20 a set for trv's and lockshields, so he's probably got £400 in materials there tops, I think that's very high tbh.

Most people generally don't have trv's on all rads, you can just fit them to bedrooms and let the room stat control downstairs rads.

[Stenno]

My dads a plumber and I know when he replaces an old style boiler and storage heater for a combi system, which also involves fitting TRVs by law I believe, he's done in four days, albeit that's in a normal 3 bed house so probably not as many as 15 rads.

I imagine you could get cheaper quotes. It's looking like a great start to your relationship with the neighbours.

[Amadeus]

Thanks guys. I thought that using a recommended plumber and a neighbough to boot would be a safe option - I'll get a couple more quotes tho.
The house is quite old - 1928. I turned up the thermostat (in the hall) and opened all the rad valves and they all heated up nicely but they don't all seem to heat up when thermostat is at a normal level. For a lot of the upstairs rooms we'll not be using them other than when we have guests so they will just require low-level heating to ensure no damp etc.

Thanks for the input - much appreciated.

[Specialone]

Could be the location of the room stat, get it swapped to a wireless one, then put it away from any close heat source, you can then just temporary try it in places until you find a nice balance at the areas you want to heat.

Like I said in my earlier post, you don't need trv's on all your rads, if when your room stat is on a decent temperature for the house but one rad /room is too hot, just put a trv in that room.

[dirtydog]

Is he putting a new boiler in for that too?

It is a fair bit of messing around but I allow £20 a set for trv's and lockshields, so he's probably got £400 in materials there tops, I think that's very high tbh.

Most people generally don't have trv's on all rads, you can just fit them to bedrooms and let the room stat control downstairs rads.

A quick bit of maths and I reckon the materials are a little bit over £500. 15 Drayton TRV4 and lock shields are going to cost about £370 (screwfix prices). The auto bypass is only about £20 ish (been a while since I bought one) so maybe worth doing while the system is all drained down.
As for the powerflush, probably not needed and is normally quite expensive as it takes a while to do if its done properly.

I get a lot of people asking to fit TRVs to all the radiators in the house but its really not needed but some people still insist that its done :rolleyes:

Could be the location of the room stat, get it swapped to a wireless one, then put it away from any close heat source, you can then just temporary try it in places until you find a nice balance at the areas you want to heat.


Have done this quite a few times now, surprising how many room stats are fitted above a radiator :smt017

[Amadeus]

Thanks for the additional info SP1 & DD.

I can see why someone would want TRVs everywhere because if an additional one is required later, it can be problematic to get someone out to do just one.
The thermostat in the hall is quite near the radiator so that could indeed be causing problems - certainly something to consider. I guess I'd put the controller where the current thermostat is, and then put the sensor somewhere else, out of the way?

[embee]

Good advice there.

While breaking into the system it might be worth consdering zoning. I fitted wireless Honeywell programmable room stats and zone valves to split upstairs/downstairs. Managed to get them off the 'bay at about 60% of rrp. Huge saving in heating costs for a pretty simple mod.

The Honeywell wireless sruff works brilliantly. I fitted TRVs all round, and if you decide to move the stat to a different room (in the same zone) just turn that TRV full on and set the other one to what you want. You can also use the room stat to give much more control of the system very simply, just set demand temps to a very low figure and it effectively turns the heating off for that zone while allowing the other zone to run normally.

You can get programmable rad TRV's now too, another option. The ones I've fitted for others (Pegler) have been add-ons to existing TRV's, just swap the heads. Simple solution if a bit pricey, but you can do just the ones you want.

[Stenno]

What about balancing the radiators?

[dirtydog]

If you go for a wireless room stat the receiver will go where the stat is now and then the sender/wireless stat goes where ever you like.

Good shout on the programmable trvs embee, I've fitted a load of these and they fit most trv valves. £32 each in screwfix at the moment, bought a couple last week.

[embee]

If you go for a wireless room stat the receiver will go where the stat is now and then the sender/wireless stat goes where ever you like.


The receiver doesn't have to be physically where the existing stat is, it can be back at the boiler/control box as long as it's wired in place of the stat (it does the same electrical switching function).

With the arrangement I have there are 2 wireless room stats, one for upstairs one for down. The 2 receivers are back next to the boiler where the connection box and zone valves are sited.

In theory you could have as many zones as you want, each with its own wireless stat. Just means getting wiring from the receiver to the zone valve and back to the control box.

The programmable TRV's offer you most of the benefits with the minimum of work, that's their selling point really isn't it.

[dirtydog]

Ok, no the receiver doesn't have to be where the old stat was but it's normally easier to put them there as a retrofit as the wires are already there from the control box.

[embee]

Sorry, yes you're absolutely right, easiest retrofit is as you say. It does offer the opportunity to get rid of a wall mounted box in a sitting room etc which some folk prefer though.

[suzukigt380paul]

I've just moved into a new house which doesn't have thermostatic radiator valves so I got a quote for installing them from my new next door neighbour who is a plumber (recommended). The quote is basically as follows:

15 x Drayton trv4 TRV
1 x Drayton automatic bypass valve refill system and dose with sentinel x100 inhibitor
15 x Drayton lock shield valves
1 x furnox tf1 filter or magiclean unit
Carry out power flush using sentinel x800

It will apparently take 3-4 days and cost about £1900 incl VAT.

Could a plumber say if that's in the right ballpark?

Thankswell all the parts listed come out at about £245 inc vat,and id expect 3-4 days would install a complete central heating system,well almost,and at £1900 he is taking the p1ss,unless you like paying £500 a day for 3 days, to do a days work

[Bluefish]

My 2p, I prefer a bog standard honeywell room stat, not digital, they play up all the time, losing the signal, batts go flat, just hassel. All the rads apart from the one in the room where the r/stat is, should have trv's fitted, it's in the rules, and to do a proper flush of a system that big would take more than one day, so 2.5 to 3 days work for 1 person, so if it was done properly that's about right, or you can get it cheaper, but you will get a cheaper job. of course it depends on what type of valves this fella was going to fit, drayton are hardly the best.

[suzukigt380paul]

My 2p, I prefer a bog standard honeywell room stat, not digital, they play up all the time, losing the signal, batts go flat, just hassel. All the rads apart from the one in the room where the r/stat is, should have trv's fitted, it's in the rules, and to do a proper flush of a system that big would take more than one day, so 2.5 to 3 days work for 1 person, so if it was done properly that's about right, or you can get it cheaper, but you will get a cheaper job. of course it depends on what type of valves this fella was going to fit, drayton are hardly the best.well he's still charging him £500 a day labour thats £62 a hour,id say thats well over the top,i cant see it takes longer to drain and flush a 15 rad system and install trv's, then it would take 2 people to install a new system in a normal 3 bedroom house,but if those in the know say it does then so be it,so if its 3 day job and £250 in parts(that what ive costed the parts at) i would say since the chap lives next do so not far to travel to the job,so its about a £650 job for a self employed person.and lets face it with the building industry in the state its in,and plumbers are ten a penny and all the trades involved in building/houses are having there costs cut and labour prices cut,the days unless you live in central london of thinking of a price and doubling it have long gone

[dirtydog]

well all the parts listed come out at about £245 inc vat,and id expect 3-4 days would install a complete central heating system,well almost,and at £1900 he is taking the p1ss,unless you like paying £500 a day for 3 days, to do a days work



£245? How did you come up with that figure for the stuff quoted?

Break down of prices (prices straight from plumbfix or my merchants book)

Drayton TRV4 and lockshield x 15 £300
Auto bypass £ 23
Fernox x800 might need a couple of them £ 17 a bottle
magnaclean/fernox tf1 £100/95
Sentinel x100 £ 15

So with those prices it comes to about £450/455


Cheap prices

Trade TRV and lockshield x 15 £98
bypass £23
trade cleaner £ 9
Magnaclean/fernox tf1 £100/95
trade inhibitor £ 8

Total £238/243

So yes you could get all the materials for about £245 but I certainly wouldn't want to fit those trvs to any of my radiators! Also its probably worth spending the extra few quid on decent branded inhibitor and cleaner.


Edit: Oh and it takes bloody ages to do a powerflush properly

[dirtydog]

Sorry, yes you're absolutely right, easiest retrofit is as you say. It does offer the opportunity to get rid of a wall mounted box in a sitting room etc which some folk prefer though.


I went to a job not so long ago to flat that had a new heating system put in and the room stat had been moved out into the hallway from the living room (was a recessed box in living room) and the bloke had filled the hole with caulk!