View Full Version : 100% acetone in sv650 curvy?
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 08:14 PM
Put about 60ml of 100% acetone in bike . mate works for a fibre glass company and uses it to clean fibre glass . Says its better for engine cleaning , more mpg and better torque and smoother . any more Pros ? Or coms ?
Havent tried it yet . But will br riding soon
yorkie_chris
02-10-12, 08:17 PM
Don't cry to me if it eats your carb rubber parts.
Tomor uses it in his bike (pointy) and says he gets more MPG. I don't think its going to have a major effect, or a big company would have come up with a product . . . .
appollo1
02-10-12, 08:22 PM
well if your mate says its good for cleaning fibreglass and you want to try it in your engine then please take before and after film of your engine running and let us know how you get on!
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 08:24 PM
I'll see what its like on way home . I'll report back
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 08:25 PM
Don't cry to me if it eats your carb rubber parts.
Its same as petrol as corrosive .
sv_rory
02-10-12, 08:54 PM
Thats a stupid thing to do, it melts rubber, same as paint thinners who ever told you that is a fool!
acetone is used for thinning epoxy resins
EssexDave
02-10-12, 08:56 PM
"3. Caution: Acetone will dissolve most plastics, resins1 and rubber."
"Anyone who knows anything at all about what acetone can do would surely realize that if it can loosen dried solvent based paint (finger nail polish) or disolve oil stains on cement would easily figure out that it could eat away at fuel injector seals, fuel rail (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Ftracking.searchmarketing.com%2F click.asp%3Faid%3D1464586697&mid=261693&catId=13315&atom=11310&prodId=&oid=4436311424&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=6024e19170d4089f&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444) pressure regulator diaphragms, and possibly the strainer assembly on the fuel pump (plastic).
Old wives tail, it don't work, and it will mess up your fuel system (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bookdepository.co.uk%2FPerf ormance-Fuel-Injection-Systems%2F9781557885579%3Fredirected%3Dtrue%26utm_ medium%3DShopzilla%26utm_campaign%3DShopzillaUk%26 utm_source%3DUK%26utm_content%3DPerformance-Fuel-Injection-Systems&mid=222598&catId=13287&atom=10859&prodId=&oid=4567937015&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8e6fc9110ff780c3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444).
Stop using acetone in your cars.
reference: Me. I am an ASE Certified Automotive Technician."
Taken from various websites of which I take no credit for the original posts
I'll see what its like on way home . I'll report back
using it in a tank won't make a difference. You'll ned to use it in repeated tanks one after another to see any benefit/affects it *might* have (good or bad)
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 08:59 PM
Well not gunna lie it runs smoother . Pulls abit better . But only using for this one tank .
Well not gunna lie it runs smoother . Pulls abit better . But only using for this one tank .
The placebo effect
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 09:04 PM
It could be a mentally, thinking its better lol .
But i genuinly think its better :D
Rubber used for gasoline applications are nearly always nitrile (NBR) or fluorocarbon (FPM) e.g. viton, neither of which are suitable for acetone according to the compatibility chart here for example (http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart) (rated as 4 on a 1-4 scale, 1=satisfactory, 4=unsatisfactory)
sv_rory
02-10-12, 09:44 PM
Rubber used for gasoline applications are nearly always nitrile (NBR) or fluorocarbon (FPM) e.g. viton, neither of which are suitable for acetone according to the compatibility chart here for example (http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart) (rated as 4 on a 1-4 scale, 1=satisfactory, 4=unsatisfactory)
true! had to learn all of that on my theory for my painting
Joe Marcon
02-10-12, 10:10 PM
Ar well its running fine :) . Need new chain and sprockets fitted now
I use it on long journeys, but honestly, its more hassle than it worth. then you forget to put it in a tank and you have to store it on the bike. It works for long trips, not noticeable on short journeys, and i do find it increases MPG, but too much hassle to do it regularly
johnnyrod
03-10-12, 08:52 AM
If you must put something in then a shot of meths or IPA (aka Wynns Dry Fuel) is better, octane number will be increased a bit, but really it's pointless in a stock engine (i.e. stock compression ratio). Any of these things (including acetone) will make more acidic by-products in the exhaust gases, plus as said above, acetone is a fairly strong solvent so will attack rubbers (you can't just label an organic solvent as "corrosive", it's like saying forest camouflage will work in the arctic and vice versa). Engine "cleaners" typically are fairly involatile e.g. Redex, as it's fetches up on the back of the inlet valves when the fuel evaporates then washes the gunk off. There are some cleaning jobs in carbs etc. for additives but again solvents aren't going to do much there.
Dicky Ticker
03-10-12, 08:59 AM
And here is me thinking he was dry cleaning his bike------silly me:confused:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!
This "Engine cleaning" stuff is bull****. This is a light solvent, relative to compounds found in petrol so it will strip any accumulations inside the engine. guess where that gunk goes? through the rest of the engine!
Carry a camera and a fire extinguisher with you on future rides.
Joe Marcon
03-10-12, 12:22 PM
A guy got a normal engine and an engine that had used acetone . He cut them in half and the acetone engine was much cleaner and better all rounder
A guy got a normal engine and an engine that had used acetone . He cut them in half and the acetone engine was much cleaner and better all rounder
Yes, the eingine itself will be cleaner, but all the build up will go through the engine and ruin it.
johnnyrod
03-10-12, 12:35 PM
Let me ask you this: does it sound too good to be true? Yes sir, just add a teaspoon of this here snake oil every day and you'll be right as rain in no time. I would advise you to make like Thomas the Apostle and believe only what you see with your own eyes. However if you want you can find some links to what you read and I'll post a pic of Brad Pitt that I claim to be me and we can throw that one around for a bit!
or try this
http://www.fuelsaving.info/acetone.htm
yorkie_chris
03-10-12, 12:38 PM
A guy got a normal engine and an engine that had used acetone . He cut them in half and the acetone engine was much cleaner and better all rounder
Why the f*** would you need to cut it in half?
Which bits?
For a start a bit of carbon in cylinder head is fine, don't go mad for stuff that cleans this. Water injection does a fine job anyway.
The carbs? If they tell you they cut an engine in half to look in carb they need to try drinking the acetone instead it will make them better all round!
A guy got a normal engine and an engine that had used acetone . He cut them in half and the acetone engine was much cleaner and better all rounder
/Need to cut an engine in half to look at it
/Knows nothing about engines.
Joe Marcon
03-10-12, 12:52 PM
I wont put it in again . Ive mixed it with v power . And gunna use whats left
I use it on long journeys, but honestly, its more hassle than it worth. then you forget to put it in a tank and you have to store it on the bike. It works for long trips, not noticeable on short journeys, and i do find it increases MPG, but too much hassle to do it regularly
Acetone has a pretty low calorific value, 28.5MJ/kg compared to 43MJ/kg for petrol, and the stoichiometric ratio is 9.4:1 compared to 14.7:1 so you need an awful lot of it and don't get much energy out of it. As such it doesn't make much sense as a road fuel and certainly won't give better "miles per gallon" in any mix proportions.
There are always apocryphal anecdotes about such things.
Stick to good old pump fuel.
There again, it's your choice, put whatever you like in it.
I wont put it in again . Ive mixed it with v power . And gunna use whats left
Look mate, you're restricted to 33BHP magic won't make your bike any faster.
If you do then you're breaking the law by riding a bike over 33BHP in which cas you might as well bite the bullet and take out the restrictor.
yorkie_chris
03-10-12, 01:00 PM
There again, it's your choice, put whatever you like in it.
Don't forget the road duty on anything not plant or animal based!
It could help the engine to tick over easier in the cold but to benefit from that you'd need a seperat tank to inject into the carbs.
yorkie_chris
03-10-12, 01:08 PM
It could help the engine to tick over easier in the cold but to benefit from that you'd need a seperat tank to inject into the carbs.
Why? You need a sh*tload of it so what is it's latent heat of vaporisation per KJ?
Why? You need a sh*tload of it so what is it's latent heat of vaporisation per KJ?
petrol's flash point is about 10c where as acetone is more like -20.
yorkie_chris
03-10-12, 01:13 PM
I've had carby bikes start fine after being outside in -10c.
Wikipedia lists petrol flash point at -43 degrees. I don't think I'd fancy riding in that TBH.
Winter fuel has more volatile fractions than summer/intermediate petrol to aid cold starting. See "Reid vapour pressure" or RVP. Manufacturers (of cars anyway) usually do cold start tests down to -35C unassisted (i.e. no block heaters or supplementary batteries). In climates where temps below -35C are seen regularly folk usually take extra measures (leave running, block heating, garages etc)
................but we're going off down a different track I think.
johnnyrod
03-10-12, 02:27 PM
Flash point means how easy itis to light, not how much energy it knocks out
Joe Marcon
03-10-12, 02:36 PM
If my bikes restricted or not thats up to me.
Spank86
03-10-12, 02:42 PM
Ar well its running fine :) . Need new chain and sprockets fitted now
unfortunately these things do take time.
You usually wouldnt know if youve done damage for a while.
With regards to clean engines older engines can actually run better with a bit of carbon build up, alledgedly it covers the microfractures that can form over time. I seem to remember advice to not put engine cleaners in old engines, stick to new ones if you must use it.
widepants
03-10-12, 02:54 PM
shakes head while reading Joes post
Joe Marcon
03-10-12, 02:56 PM
shakes head while reading Joes post
Smiles while reading yours :)
widepants
03-10-12, 03:08 PM
high five buddy
Joe Marcon
03-10-12, 03:13 PM
high five buddy
:D
edit: Just seen Embee's post, sorry lol
Its same as petrol as corrosive .
Actually they have wildly different properies - plenty of common plastics (apart from fluoropolymers like viton / teflon and polyalkenes like PP / PE / PMP) will be either swelled or dissolved by acetone. I don't know what suzuki used on the SV but nitrile rubber is a very common fuel-safe polymer and acetone (and methanol, and many other solvents) will eat it for breakfast. If you've already put it through your tank I'd get it out sharpish. Not to mention it will definitely chew up your fairings and probably the paintwork too!
Check out this solvent compatibility chart... (petrol is similar in composition to petroleum ether)
http://capolight.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/solvent_compatibility.jpg
xXBADGERXx
03-10-12, 04:43 PM
Well not gunna lie it runs smoother . Pulls abit better . But only using for this one tank .
Bum Dyno
xXBADGERXx
03-10-12, 04:45 PM
A guy got a normal engine and an engine that had used acetone . He cut them in half and the acetone engine was much cleaner and better all rounder
Was this the guy down the pub ? , look , if this was some wonder cure for MPG etc .... EVERYONE would be doing it , there is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN
Sid Squid
03-10-12, 05:03 PM
petrol flash point at -43 degrees. I don't think I'd fancy riding in that TBH.
Nancy.
Bluefish
03-10-12, 05:08 PM
Lol
Back of the envelope calculation gives the AFR for acetone as 7.9:1, AFR for petrol is around 14:1 so running acetone with standard jetting / map will give you a very lean running engine. Rejetting / remapping to get the right AFR will give you 30% more power and 30% less tank range for a given displacement. (Acetone 24.3MJ/l, Petrol 32.8MJ/l).
Of course if you go for nitromethane / methanol like the dragsters use then your AFR is something like 2:1 (tank range would be around 15 miles) and power goes up but many hundred percent!!! Lol, nitro powered SV anyone?
yorkie_chris
03-10-12, 05:46 PM
Back of the envelope calculation gives the AFR for acetone as 7.9:1, AFR for petrol is around 14:1 so running acetone with standard jetting / map will give you a very lean running engine. Rejetting / remapping to get the right AFR will give you 30% more power and 30% less tank range for a given displacement. (Acetone 24.3MJ/l, Petrol 32.8MJ/l).
No it won't.
You're still burning the same amount of air at the same compression ratio, how do you get 30% more power?
No it won't.
You're still burning the same amount of air at the same compression ratio, how do you get 30% more power?
Acetone will require 6.9kg air / kg fuel whereas petrol needs 14kg / kg fuel; halving the AFR gives you twice the mass of fuel in per burn; if the fuel had the same calorific value then you could get twice the power but as acetone has a lower calorific value and a lower density you only get 30% extra energy per burn...
Of course I may be talking out of my a*se, it has been known! But I'm sure that's right, isn't that how dragsters get so much power out of nitro mix? Low AFR and loads of fuel, albeit at a lower calorific value..
My Bosch handbook says (from earlier post)
Acetone calorific value, 28.5MJ/kg compared to 43MJ/kg for petrol, and the stoichiometric ratio is 9.4:1 compared to 14.7:1
Stoich ratios are for mass not volume.
1kg of air will release 28.5/9.4= 3.03MJ from acetone
1kg of air will release 43/14.7= 2.93MJ from petrol
so not a lot in it if running more or less correct A/F (3%).
My Bosch handbook says (from earlier post)
Acetone calorific value, 28.5MJ/kg compared to 43MJ/kg for petrol, and the stoichiometric ratio is 9.4:1 compared to 14.7:1
Stoich ratios are for mass not volume.
1kg of air will release 28.5/9.4= 3.03MJ from acetone
1kg of air will release 43/14.7= 2.93MJ from petrol
so not a lot in it if running more or less correct A/F (3%).
I see, I've conjured up the wrong numbers :)
Just as a comparison
methanol 19.7MJ/kg, St. A/F 6.4
1kg air releases 19.7/6.4= 3.08MJ however it allows a much higher comp ratio to be used compared to petrol so significantly better thermal efficiency is possible.
Nitromethane on the other hand has a calorific value of around 11MJ/kg and stoich ratio of just 1.7 (due to the oxygen content) and consequently 1kg air will release around 6.2MJ of energy, twice that for petrol, but of course the consumption rate is huge.
johnnyrod
04-10-12, 09:18 AM
Holy crap this is better than a thread on countersteering using the back brake while pondering if your regulator/rectifier is already a Honda one. Or mismatched tyres at today's market pressure.
widepants
04-10-12, 09:23 AM
Or how to blow away an Italian super car .
Always look out for Joe's threads , you know you are in for some flaming to take place
Acetone will require 6.9kg air / kg fuel whereas petrol needs 14kg / kg fuel; halving the AFR gives you twice the mass of fuel in per burn; if the fuel had the same calorific value then you could get twice the power but as acetone has a lower calorific value and a lower density you only get 30% extra energy per burn...
Of course I may be talking out of my a*se, it has been known! But I'm sure that's right, isn't that how dragsters get so much power out of nitro mix? Low AFR and loads of fuel, albeit at a lower calorific value..
That's about right. For the same reason you can make good power running methanol, even though it's calorific value is quite a lot lower than petrol.
Why not run it on lavender oil? Then at least while you are sat waiting for RAC to collect you and your broken down bike the smell will be very calming. :)
MarkB852
05-10-12, 10:20 AM
Why not run it on lavender oil? Then at least while you are sat waiting for RAC to collect you and your broken down bike the smell will be very calming. :)
Snicker.
I love a good flame war over bugger all. Reminds me of past times on newsgroups.
Can't someone invoke Godwin's Law and put this thread out of it's misery?
Mark
Drew Carey
05-10-12, 11:16 AM
I have no idea on what all you guys are hankering over (science and all that mumbo jumbo, just as confusing as the banking world I reside in!!! :D)......but I do have one question, if there is some miracle way to extend the mpg, give more power, clean the engine better etc.....surely by now all the engine manufacturers would have adopted them? After all, they don't really want you shoving random chemicals inside the engines that have been designed with multi millions spent on it?!?
I 100% get modding when making things look different, or mechanically altering something......but why would people risk something so critical as the engine for such a minimal change? Especially when "derek" down the pub said it makes it run betterererer. I just don't get it. Especially given most of the time the change is solely a placebo effect and is nothing more than....."felt smoother today"....which can be simply explained by "well done, you rode smoother and avoided more potholes".
:-dd
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