The little black box

[Viney]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20143969

Interesting article form the Beeb on insurance based Black Boxes for young drivers. Although on the surface this is a fairly good idea, i dont think it covers what it should.

So take Jonny New Driver. He pootles about quite happliy at the speed limit. Accelerates gently, brakes smoothly and is a model driver according to his black box. However, what it does not pick up is that he is on his mobile phone at all times, or larking around with his mates whilst driving, or he tailgates other road users, parks on red routes, or is generally inconsiderate etc etc. So, in the eyes of his insurance company, hes a model driver, in reality, hes dangerous and inconsiderate

Discuss

[Littlepeahead]

But you've made the assumption he is driving a BMW.

[The Idle Biker]

Bad news - tip of the iceberg. Black boxes will find there way into all our vehicles and then my friends your fun and freedom will be monitored, policed and priced.

Apathy will be the lever, and we will be fooked.

[Paul the 6th]

Bad news - tip of the iceberg. Black boxes will find there way into all our vehicles and then my friends your fun and freedom will be monitored, policed and priced.

Apathy will be the lever, and we will be fooked.

STUFF THAT LAURIE! COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO BE FREE..

http://evrn.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/FD2995776.jpg

[flymo]

it would also raise interesting issues around privacy of the resulting data. accuracy of it, how do you deal with a disputed data reading?

Can the unit be hacked? (very likely), can I strap it to my grand mothers car to provide a safe driving record to my insurance company?

how does it distinguish between 70mph in a 30 zone and 70 on a motorway?

..and I'm intrigued as to how it can sense you did a wheelie, especially in a car :-)

[The Idle Biker]

STUFF THAT LAURIE! COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO BE FREE..

http://evrn.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/FD2995776.jpg

I do feel like that some days, I really do. I'm going down the pub now though.

[yorkie_chris]

it would also raise interesting issues around privacy of the resulting data. accuracy of it, how do you deal with a disputed data reading?

Can the unit be hacked? (very likely), can I strap it to my grand mothers car to provide a safe driving record to my insurance company?

how does it distinguish between 70mph in a 30 zone and 70 on a motorway?

..and I'm intrigued as to how it can sense you did a wheelie, especially in a car :-)

Or better feed it 20,000V of ignition energy :)

"Oh another faulty one, I do seem to have the worst luck with electrics..."

[yorkie_chris]

I'm more worried by this "over accelerated" thing... time to be more careful going down the motorway when somebody daren't put the boot down on the slip road for fear of increasing their premiums!

[andrewsmith]

Folk watch this on Iplayer (if you didn't last night)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01nqccq/

Its coming ready or not, some of it is a load of crap. I wouldn't want any of it, privacy issues and I don't believe it'll make out safer.

Wy don't they bring in mandatory 5 year re-testing for cars or improve the standard needed for a pass

[dizzyblonde]

We looked into this when renewing our insurance on the Landy. Anything to get a massive premium down to next to nothing.....right?......wrong!

At first it looked like a reasonable sacrifice for cheaper insurance.
Whereas someone like myself could revert to getting under the radar by manipulating my driving techniques back to test standard, in a shared car, there is no way Peg could change his driving habits for the black box to relay information required. Particularly as he has no feeling in his right foot, so harsh braking, aggressive acceleration is part of a disablement and not pants experience or driver. Terribly flawed IMO

[Sid Squid]

then my friends your fun and freedom will be monitored, policed and priced.
How beautifully statist. Beware the state - it is not your friend.

[Wideboy]

also they don't pick up your lane discipline, what about about going across from the inside lane to the slip road on the motorway? crossing lanes on a roundabout? getting in the wrong lanes at junction but going your way anyway?

how many time's does all of those things occur or witnessed on your commute? or how many of those cause accidents or evasive actions from other drivers? all of which doesn't get picked up.

yet again more money making ill-thought out bull**** from some suit toff sat in an office with their thumb up their ar5e.

[ethariel]

also they don't pick up your lane discipline, what about about going across from the inside lane to the slip road on the motorway? crossing lanes on a roundabout? getting in the wrong lanes at junction but going your way anyway?

how many time's does all of those things occur or witnessed on your commute? or how many of those cause accidents or evasive actions from other drivers? all of which doesn't get picked up.

yet again more money making ill-thought out bull**** from some suit toff sat in an office with their thumb up their ar5e.

Agree totaly, however some numpty ftom TRRL or the insurance company will pick up on this and add in a camera or 2 next :(

[Specialone]

I watched the bbc program last night, i just seen it as a load of desk bull **** too, at no point did they question driving standards falling, all they went on about was road design, SPEED and SPEED.

First rise in KSI figures in years and its panic stations.

We have one of the lowest KSI figures per head anywhere in Europe which in turn gives us some of the safest roads in the world yet they are still panicking.

Expect to have our A roads attacked in the not to distant future too, blanket 40MPH isnt far away cos stats show accidents will reduce, utter twaddle, why not make it 30? 20?
Learn to fecking drive/ride for the conditions and road you are on and there wont be a problem.

The black box is way too intrusive, the presenter was doing swerve tests and it showed up on there, so if a crazy bitch pulls out on you and through your quick reactions and skill you avoid a collision, it will show up in the graph and you will recieve a low score which results in an increased insurance premium, it will be the end of us, mark my words.

[andrewsmith]

There was a good one from the interviews with the motorcycles, the ones that get killed are speeding well above the limit

[widepants]

most of the roads they classed as the most dangerous , used to be my locals

[andrewsmith]

most of the roads they classed as the most dangerous , used to be my locals

and are they?

TBH if those roads are danagerous, they would close quite a few roads around the north east

[widepants]

the one from whitchurch is a bad one.....if you go too fast
The cat and fiddle....as above.
ride to the road and conditions , know your limits and you should be fine .

[dizzyblonde]

Cat and doddle, don't make me laff!

[widepants]

yes Dizz , but one mistake and its a long way down for the average poweranger

[Specialone]

I dont like the road tbh, speed cameras, too much traffic, not much margin for error etc etc, better quieter roads in wales imo.

[dizzyblonde]

It's the most hyped up biking road, I've ever had the disappointment of riding. SP1, added to your list the fact its always bkeddy foggy, so maximum speed acheieved is somewhere around 12mph :rolleyes:

I think all the speed cameras are there to hide the embarrassment that is naff!

[widepants]

the program never said it was a good road .It said it was dangerous .

[dizzyblonde]

I've ridden far dangerous roads. Suppose its down to ones perception of what dangerous is.

[Joe Marcon]

My friend has one, saves £1000 on his insurance bit has to be in at 11pm and allowed out at 5am . They dont pick up speed just if you drive out of your hours you get a £35 fine From your insurance

[yorkie_chris]

That seems like b*llocks to me what if you've got to (while going about your lawful business) set off at 3am? Or drive until 12? Doesn't mean you're driving very badly round a car park like some crooooz pond life does it. Bah.

Only reason cat and fiddle is dangerous is there's loads of power rangers from manchester within easy reach and it's straight enough to get some speed up. And it's busy. Not that it's a good road, just statistics due to it's location.

[minimorecambe]

My friend has one, saves £1000 on his insurance bit has to be in at 11pm and allowed out at 5am . They dont pick up speed just if you drive out of your hours you get a £35 fine From your insurance

Let's hope he never has to go to hospital or has an emergency between 11pm and 5am then

[L3nny]

So in the middle of the night, when the roads are empty and all you have to worry about is a suicidal badger it is deemed too dangerous for him to leave the house. Good job he doesn't work shifts.

This is just the start of something very worrying. Soon all vehicles will be tracked at all times. They are already proposing pay as you go road tax to sneak these boxes into everyone's car.

[Specialone]

Statistically speaking young drivers have more serious accidents between 11pm and 5am so that's why big discounts and incentives are offered if they agree not to use their vehicles during these times.

That type of black box probably would benefit young drivers, civil libertys aside, as long as it doesn't start adding things on like speed and braking etc.

[Wideboy]

personally if the box thing is enforced i would probably be one of the first to seek a bypass and have 6 points for "driving without a black monitor box", ridiculous.

if they want driving standards to improve they need to make the test more difficult (i did it 6 years ago, was a piece of ****) and restrict car power for 2 years on new drivers, probably longer.... but none of that will improve driving standards, standards are **** because most people on the roads are arrogant self centred ****s, who think there journey is the most important in the world and with no respect for human beings. But then that comes back onto society.

there are to many cars on the road

[widepants]

New Zealand has a totally differant system to us .You can pass your test at 15 but are restricted to the hours you can drive and you can only take passengers over a certain age,which I think is 23.After so many years on a restricted licence ,you can then take another test .This probably works abit like our bike test to be honest.

[L3nny]

New Zealand has a totally differant system to us .You can pass your test at 15 but are restricted to the hours you can drive and you can only take passengers over a certain age,which I think is 23.After so many years on a restricted licence ,you can then take another test .This probably works abit like our bike test to be honest.

Average New Zealand road

http://danny.oz.au/travel/new-zealand/p/2020-road-clouds.jpg

[hardhat_harry]

Why would anyone choose to have that much liberty taken away from them?

Fines for driving at certain times of the day wtf!

A device monitoring your every move when travelling in your car, I dont care how much cheaper it might be you've got to be nuts to want this.

[widepants]

I get wher you're coming from L3nny , but my lad lives just outside Auckland and it doesnt look anything like the pic u posted
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QQLI39_ZpzQ/TxxhhwPxTNI/AAAAAAAAHCs/4Rz4QXH5sJ4/s1600/Auckland+motorway+traffic.jpg

[SoulKiss]

personally if the box thing is enforced i would probably be one of the first to seek a bypass and have 6 points for "driving without a black monitor box", ridiculous.

if they want driving standards to improve they need to make the test more difficult (i did it 6 years ago, was a piece of ****) and restrict car power for 2 years on new drivers, probably longer.... but none of that will improve driving standards, standards are **** because most people on the roads are arrogant self centred ****s, who think there journey is the most important in the world and with no respect for human beings. But then that comes back onto society.

there are to many cars on the road

The problem is that there are no Cops to police the roads.

My solution, put monitoring of driving competency in the hands of the Driving Standards Agency, and give them the training and the powers to do the job.

Kind of like a Traffic Cop, but without all the "what to do in a burglary/murder/assault training, focused purely on Traffic Law and Enforcement.

Then send them out on patrol.

[madnlooney]

But prices can go up as well as down. If the analysed information shows examples of poor driving, such as fast cornering or doing wheelies, the black box will also pick that up.

best stop them car wheelies :mad:

[-Ralph-]

I will never have one installed in any vehicle I drive, regardless of premium cost. Its if people accept these things that they become the norm, and you become screwed into having them. If an insurance company cant sell any policies because it insists on a black box and all its customers go elsewhere, then the idea will be dropped. Apathy and compliance are our enemy here.

DONT DO IT! It may save you a few quid now, but you'll pay in the long run.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

[embee]

A couple of observations -

the KSI stats don't take account of the population increase, needs to be "KSI per 100k population" at the very least, or preferably "KSI / 100k pop / million miles travelled", but that's way too complicated for journalists to understand.

I imagine (maybe at risk of showing prejudice) that the percentage of drivers not "native" to the UK is increasing, certainly in some areas of the country it is. I'm not sure whether holders of licences gained in countries such as India would easily pass a UK test, and you have to question some of the recent EU member states standards.

Anyone caught using a mobile phone while driving should get a mandatory 3 month ban for the first offence. Might concentrate a few minds.

To put things into context, just compare the "killed on the roads" numbers with "died from hospital acquired infection". Check at the Office of Nat Stats (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/search/index.html?newquery=deaths+c-diff). While dropping considerably, the death figures for 2009 were still 3,933 from C-diff and 781 for MRSA, not to mention the other infections. However the death rates are minimal for people under 45, mainly affecting the elderly, so the chattering classes probably don't really care that much. This compares to (2011 figures from .gov site) 1,901 killed on the roads, and 2011 killed rates 32% lower than the 2005-9 averages. How many people use the roads and how many spend time in hospital? I bet it's statistically a lot more dangerous staying in hospital than riding a bike on the road.

30% of killed in cars are not wearing seat belts (as I recall the numbers), so why not address this with public education and/or better policing/enforcement of seat-belt wearing? (rhetorical since this requires more traffic police so won't happen, and of course any spy-in-the-cab type system can easily be got round just by latching the belt and sitting on it).

While accidents and KSI numbers should of course be reduced as much as possible, it's still pretty amazing how few people are killed on the roads considering how many of us use the roads every day. Pedestrian killed rates are increasing, so why not educate pedestrians (i.e. all of us) a bit more?

[L3nny]

30% of killed in cars are not wearing seat belts (as I recall the numbers), so why not address this with public education

http://cached.imagescaler.hbpl.co.uk/resize/scaleWidth/460/?sURL=http://offlinehbpl.hbpl.co.uk/News/OMC/5968DA8F-ADB2-ADE7-3198E0F4ED5E6725.jpg