Food prices

[Spank86]

Although my terrible explanation of an equally bad description was just that......I have to agree with Spank. You have to consider, that growing plants actually helps give good chi, to those amongst us that are a little different to what is considered the norm.

I don't believe in chi but plants do clean the air, give off oxygen, provide activity (but usually not stress) in caring for them, and improve the looks of a place.

That's enough for me without invoking unverifiable forces.

[metalmonkey]

Sod all the racism guff in the other thread; I really do find it deeply offensive that people will spout such utter offensive dribble about people with mental health problems affecting the food we eat.
Chris (MM) please go back and think very hard about your original post about this.
If it's true, and backed up by fully reference works and research, then let us know.
If you can't and/or it's not true I think you have to apologise for and retract that comment

Hi sorry if offended you and anyone else that was not point, nor was it to have dig at people who suffer from anything like that I want to be very clear about.

I didn't explain my idea well, hence this mess.

My only point in relation is too someone who is sick, who would have poor Qi, how that transfers, how it effects everthing around us. In realtion to neative Qi flowing through our food supply, how we mistreat animals and plants that perhaps we all should think about we are doing because it really is effecting everyone just look around. Thats all.

[Spank86]

Mistreating animals can have direct effects on the quality of food without needing to invoke mystical forces.

What animals eat and how they are treated has direct effects on the meat we get off them including taste and vitamin content.

[yorkie_chris]

My only point in relation is too someone who is sick, who would have poor Qi, how that transfers, how it effects everthing around us. In realtion to neative Qi flowing through our food supply, how we mistreat animals and plants that perhaps we all should think about we are doing because it really is effecting everyone just look around. Thats all.

I think you're just wrong.

It's got sod all to do with qi, take corn for example, if you grow it sustainably and naturally and then feed it to a chicken with some room to run about it will taste better than one that's cooped up in a 10" square cage, pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones and fed on crap.

Not qi, not magic, not b*llocks, just fact. Doesn't matter if the farmer is Idi Amin* or Mother Teresa.



*Who was a proper nutjob and would be a serious risk in agriculture as he'd probably w**k on your carrots or something.

[Spank86]

I'm pretty sure semen on the carrots would mess up their PH.

[Bibio]

actually i think there is a plant that will grow in soil that has been deposited with semen.. i think it's the mandrake but i could be wrong.

or are we on about drunken seamen.. ho ho ho and a bottle of rum depositing their semen in women of the night.

[Spank86]

Yes but if you plant carrots you seldom expect to harvest mandrakes.

I'm also pretty sure that's some sort of metaphor for something.

[Bibio]

yes but you would have to be a right dirty perv to farm mandrake.

[dizzyblonde]

I think you're just wrong.

It's got sod all to do with qi, take corn for example, if you grow it sustainably and naturally and then feed it to a chicken with some room to run about it will taste better than one that's cooped up in a 10" square cage, pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones and fed on crap.

Not qi, not magic, not b*llocks, just fact. Doesn't matter if the farmer is Idi Amin* or Mother Teresa.



*Who was a proper nutjob and would be a serious risk in agriculture as he'd probably w**k on your carrots or something.


And the same goes for carrots grown without use of pesticides, or growing them.under forced conditions. Sure so your carrots come out looking a bit mutant, but they taste great. I believe there is a place for ancient Chinese traditions*, but not when growing food. Even though I refer to Qi in my post above. Although I do seem to remember mythbusters proving playing music and talking to your plants made them grow better......

*usually when learning the crane, like Daniel son.... :)

[Spank86]

Myth busters aren't known for their commitment to large sample sizes and statistical analysis.

[dizzyblonde]

No.....but its quite good viewing, and far better analysis than that there tv programme with warbling cats on a weekend :)

[Biker Biggles]

Yes but if you plant carrots you seldom expect to harvest mandrakes.

I'm also pretty sure that's some sort of metaphor for something.

Just love this thread.Its worth a bit of upset for the laughs.:smt038

[widepants]

do they have a prison garden in broadmoor

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah it's on a bit of an incline though, think jimmy used to be at that.

[Biker Biggles]

Yeah it's on a bit of an incline though, think jimmy used to be at that.

I think Jimmy liked the deflowering bit of gardening rather than the steep stuff.

Allegedly.:smt059

[Messie]

Hi sorry if offended you and anyone else that was not point, nor was it to have dig at people who suffer from anything like that I want to be very clear about.

I didn't explain my idea well, hence this mess.

My only point in relation is too someone who is sick, who would have poor Qi, how that transfers, how it effects everthing around us. In realtion to neative Qi flowing through our food supply, how we mistreat animals and plants that perhaps we all should think about we are doing because it really is effecting everyone just look around. Thats all.

That is neither a reference to validated research, nor is it an apology for deeply offensive remarks.

You are spouting *******, and insulting ones at that. Grow your own food to your own standards if you wish; otherwise leave the pseudoscientific hogwash to the mind numbed yoghurt knitters who wouldn't know a fact from their own knarled elbows.

[Spank86]

And there was me thinking I was intolerant of religious/superstitious belief.

[DJ123]

Buy online? Why so some spotty oik plays games with your bananas and football with your melons?


I take it you've never seen the fruit at the large depots before it gets to the supermarkets? When working on the trucks i visited a few Fowler and Welch depots where all the fruit is bought to/picked up from before going to supermarkets. Stacks of fruit everywhere, inside and out (this was in the summer 25 degrees +) rotting/broken fruit, insects everywhere . . . . Think the 'oik' in the supermarket is the least of your worries.

[Specialone]

I don't want to get involved in this, it's a bit out there for me but one thing I do believe (it's not a belief IMO, it's almost fact) is chi, I can't explain it, I don't understand it, but it does seem to exist.

You should watch an old bbc3 program called mind, body and kick ass moves, a brummie martial arts expert travels around the far east.
He could focus his chi, so blokes twice his size couldn't push him over, dynamo the street magician has done the same.
I know it's tv but I genuinely think there is truth in it.

Anyway, I know the above is slightly off topic but I thought I'd share.

Carry on...

[Spank86]

Just watched dynamo do it and that's not chi. That's simple physics.

Anyone could do that.

[dizzyblonde]

I take it you've never seen the fruit at the large depots before it gets to the supermarkets? When working on the trucks i visited a few Fowler and Welch depots where all the fruit is bought to/picked up from before going to supermarkets. Stacks of fruit everywhere, inside and out (this was in the summer 25 degrees +) rotting/broken fruit, insects everywhere . . . . Think the 'oik' in the supermarket is the least of your worries.
No ta, its bad enough seeing fresh fruit piled up in the wholesalers.

SP1, I know what you are getting at. Tai chi focuses on inner strength and energy. Ramp up the pace and you verge on fighting martial arts. I did Tai chi for a while, its most exhilarating. It's relative to wing chun, something which is totally amazing to watch, disciplined from within.
Don't know if that's what your programme is showing?

[21QUEST]

So folks now have to give an apology for any alledged bollox spouted? ;)

Perhaps, we ought to think about a "Bollox Spouted Apology" section....we could all even have a go at guessing the number of apologies, that'd be logged each day :p

Messie, I think you are being just a littel bit errr harsh on MM.....how about a hug from me? Honest, I don't smell...well not much anyways :D

[Spank86]

I plan on adding an apology line in my sig, it seems easiest.

[Specialone]

Just watched dynamo do it and that's not chi. That's simple physics.

Anyone could do that.

So you could stop David haye lifting you up then?

Dynamo weighs 8 stone, it's not physics mate.

Also, the four American guys who tried to push him over, I accept it's no gain with 4 than 1 but still impressive.

[Specialone]

I plan on adding an apology line in my sig, it seems easiest.

Lol, perhaps I should do the same ;)

[Spank86]

So you could stop David haye lifting you up then?

Dynamo weighs 8 stone, it's not physics mate.

Also, the four American guys who tried to push him over, I accept it's no gain with 4 than 1 but still impressive.

Haven't seen the haye one yet, you didn't mention that but I could do the four Americans its all about feet positioning. The yanks all have their feet together, dynamo doesn't, he has one braced behind him channeling their weak force downward using that as a brace. Try it with some mates.

I rather suspect the haye one is the same. If a magician does it, then its a trick plain and simple.

[Spank86]

David haye trick on YouTube,

Ill try it with wideboy next time I see him

j86AMdV9tfI

[Messie]

I'm having a bad day/week.

Sorry

[Specialone]

I accept there are ways round certain tricks and i'd have to watch the dynamo again to see what he is doing more closely but Chi still exists/works, the far east has been using this stuff for centuries in their martial arts.

[Spank86]

I understand your wish to believe than but what is actually occurring is not the result of a mystical energy field, it's all down to physics and training.

Up to and including breaking blocks with your hands/other body parts.

That said I fully appreciate that I could explain every single example you put to me from here to Christmas and you still wouldn't change your mind so I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

After all there's no way to scientifically prove the absence or presence of an invisible force that has no identifiable effect.

[widepants]

how the hell did we get from food prices to people believing in magic

[Specialone]

how the hell did we get from food prices to people believing in magic


It was me, i didnt like the thread so thought id put other thoughts in to it :p

[metalmonkey]

That is neither a reference to validated research, nor is it an apology for deeply offensive remarks.

You are spouting *******, and insulting ones at that. Grow your own food to your own standards if you wish; otherwise leave the pseudoscientific hogwash to the mind numbed yoghurt knitters who wouldn't know a fact from their own knarled elbows.

For someone that knows nothing about me, you seem to assume one I haven't effected by this and see how this effects your love ones, second how much experience, expertise and training do you actually have with dealing with someone like this?


I don't expect you have ever had convince someone that need to be hospital for own safety and welfare. I had tell someone their family member is dead because they were so screwed up that they hung themselves. I cut this person down from the rope and then 15 minutes later tell his brother why he is dead. So don't even think you begin to lecture me on this topic, I haven't even scratched the surface of my experience,


So before anyone goes off shouting I know best, my point of view is better don't assume anything. Opinions are like ars*holes everyone has one.


Now can we get back on the debate or are you all going to run away?

[dizzyblonde]

how the hell did we get from food prices to people believing in magic



voodoo

[widepants]

It was me, i didnt like the thread so thought id put other thoughts in to it :p
stop trying to steal someone elses thunder you bad man.;)

[Specialone]

Sorry i'll butt out now, i was just trying to lighten the mood a notch.

[widepants]

you forgot the smillie

[Spank86]

Now can we get back on the debate or are you all going to run away?

Did you have something to debate because I'm not about to call into question anything in that last post.

I will stick to my opinion that there's no such thing as mystical forces and I will happily debate any or all of them you wish to raise.

[widepants]

Did you have something to debate because I'm not about to call into question anything in that last post.

I will stick to my opinion that there's no such thing as mystical forces and I will happily debate any or all of them you wish to raise.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/CGIYoda.jpg/200px-CGIYoda.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CGIYoda.jpg)
this guy would beg to differ

[Spank86]

That guys got frank oz's hand up his Jacksie.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good bit of science on your side.

[metalmonkey]

I understand your wish to believe than but what is actually occurring is not the result of a mystical energy field, it's all down to physics and training.

Up to and including breaking blocks with your hands/other body parts.

That said I fully appreciate that I could explain every single example you put to me from here to Christmas and you still wouldn't change your mind so I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

After all there's no way to scientifically prove the absence or presence of an invisible force that has no identifiable effect.

If you are interested, then its best to do your own research it has to be your journery, your own your choices, no one else but thats totally down to you. I trained in kung-fu, Qi is part of the art, injury has stopped me at the moment.

[Spank86]

I guess your Qi wasn't all its cracked up to be then.

[yorkie_chris]

I don't expect you have ever had convince someone that need to be hospital for own safety and welfare. I had tell someone their family member is dead because they were so screwed up that they hung themselves. I cut this person down from the rope and then 15 minutes later tell his brother why he is dead. So don't even think you begin to lecture me on this topic, I haven't even scratched the surface of my experience,


But raiding his mutant vegetable garden was a bit low don't you think...

[missyburd]

Yes but if you plant carrots you seldom expect to harvest mandrakes.

I'm also pretty sure that's some sort of metaphor for something.

Dunno, but it's a pretty macho word don't you think? Drakes are male ducks, ducks have penises that are screw shaped....Mandrakes are screwed. You likes my logic? :-P

I don't want to get involved in this, it's a bit out there for me but one thing I do believe (it's not a belief IMO, it's almost fact) is chi, I can't explain it, I don't understand it, but it does seem to exist.

I agree. I do believe that the flow of energy a.k.a chi makes a great difference, it is why when you move furniture round in a room you instantly feel better, it is the reason why I constantly move stock around my shop only for people to buy stuff within minutes of me moving it. I have witnessed it first hand many times, and I'm a sciencey person who doesn't do hippy wishywashy stuff but there's a lot to be said for energy.

I can see why metalmonkey relates chi to food, though I admit it's the first time I've heard it put in that context before. But no point giving someone a hard time about a subject you choose to completely disregard whether that's down to ignorance, stubbornness or what.

So back to food prices, have you SEEN the cost of Freddos these days!? :p

[yorkie_chris]

So back to food prices, have you SEEN the cost of Freddos these days!? :p

Sacrilege :(

[dizzyblonde]

20p?

More distressing....is where do you find the ones with popping candy?

[Spank86]

, it is the reason why I constantly move stock around my shop only for people to buy stuff within minutes of me moving it. I have witnessed it first hand many times, and I'm a sciencey person who doesn't do hippy wishywashy stuff but there's a lot to be said for energy.


Science says that's simply down to people noticing new things.

When stock in a shop stays static people develop set shopping patterns, routines of where they go and what they buy (like animal tracks in a forest). When you move stuff around they are shaken out of their pattern and as a result have to search for what they want which leads them to see things they wouldn't normally and quite often decide to try them. It's also quite irritating, I don't like change.

If chi was a force then simply moving stock wouldn't help, some moves would improve stock sale and others would be detrimental.

Of course that is true anyway, there are ways to lay out stores based on hard science which are more effective than others but none of them rely on mystical energy flows unless you count influencing people's emotions.

[missyburd]

Science says that's simply down to people noticing new things.

When stock in a shop stays static people develop set shopping patterns, routines of where they go and what they buy (like animal tracks in a forest). When you move stuff around they are shaken out of their pattern and as a result have to search for what they want which leads them to see things they wouldn't normally and quite often decide to try them. It's also quite irritating, I don't like change.

If chi was a force then simply moving stock wouldn't help, some moves would improve stock sale and others would be detrimental.

Of course that is true anyway, there are ways to lay out stores based on hard science which are more effective than others but none of them rely on mystical energy flows unless you count influencing people's emotions.

I knew a smartar$e would say that ;), I actually started typing it's not just as simple as people noticing new stuff then scrapped it to see who questions it. We can have stuff for ages in a prominent position that doesn't sell, shift it to a different part of the shop and it sells straight away. Yes of course you can argue that other stock makes it more attractive, that different light highlights it better but until you've witnessed it I wouldn't expect you to see it from a chi perspective. Bearing in mind I do not work in an ordinary type of shop, it's an independent business that's often likened to an Aladdin's cave with stock filling up every nook and cranny with a massive range of random items, it's not your atypical chain store where everything is aligned in regimented rows and shelves. Stock is constantly shuffled to make way for new stuff so it's a matter of where it fits usually not always where it is most likely to get noticed.

Not that I expect you to know what type of a place it is I work but not all shops are built for sheep to mill about in. That is why chi has more of an affect in ours.

Maybe it's all coincidence but it's happened so often that I'm inclined to think not.

[Spank86]

So you're saying to align chi by accident and you know it's aligned because it sells.

Not a very rigorous test is it. Little bit of a circular argument, and I've worked in shops like that before. Moving stock about has the same effect as in spacious stores and prominent positions aren't always best. Especially if something has been there for a while, people just gloss over these things.


I've been stood beneath a massive sign and layout of stock telling people that the thing they are asking me for is right here before.

[Spank86]

I also have to question wether you think chi in this instance is creating an off site need in your customers that the product fills or do you think it's making people buy a product they don't need?


Or maybe people don't buy things they need if the chi is bad and instead do without?

[dizzyblonde]

I think it depends what smell is wafting out of the door too ;)

....and if you have free nibbles next to the till :)

[missyburd]

I also have to question wether you think chi in this instance is creating an off site need in your customers that the product fills or do you think it's making people buy a product they don't need?


Or maybe people don't buy things they need if the chi is bad and instead do without?
I think you're reading too much into it. I was simply stating the flow of energy is altered by the shifting of stuff about which results in better sales, same as it is the reason why I have the need to shift home furniture about every few months. I choose to believe chi is responsible, you flatly refuse to. We shall agree to disagree :D

[Spank86]

I don't refuse to, I haven't been presented with any decent evidence that it might.

To say that the flow of energy results in better sales is missing steps, you have to suggest a mechanism for this to occur, what is actually changing.

These sales do not exist in a vacuum, we have actual people making them an repurchasing products, would they have got these products elsewhere otherwise or not bought them at all?

Even if you take the stance that chi exists it seems odd that shifting every few months would provide continuous benefits, in your home example it is more likely that one arrangement would be better than others and you would eventually reach equilibrium. That you feel better every time you change suggests a mere psychological effect and not an energy flow.


I chose to believe first and foremost in what I can touch, experience, deduce and study. If I can't see something but can still see the effects I'll believe in that too.

In my belief system there's plenty of room for invisible forces, one of them is allowing me to post this (actually several of them but who's counting), all of the, however obey rational laws of science and can be tested.

[L3nny]

So make a comment on her about bread makers, a few days later look at my list of subscribed threads and find this strange old thing abut mystical forces and jedi skills.

There is one undeniable fact about Qi that no-one can deny

It's a very handy word to play in a game of Scrabble.

Anyway, back to my previous post, tried some home made bread from my mate's bread maker the other day. It really is the way forward. Sticking it on the Christmas list.

[metalmonkey]

I don't refuse to, I haven't been presented with any decent evidence that it might.

To say that the flow of energy results in better sales is missing steps, you have to suggest a mechanism for this to occur, what is actually changing.

These sales do not exist in a vacuum, we have actual people making them an repurchasing products, would they have got these products elsewhere otherwise or not bought them at all?

Even if you take the stance that chi exists it seems odd that shifting every few months would provide continuous benefits, in your home example it is more likely that one arrangement would be better than others and you would eventually reach equilibrium. That you feel better every time you change suggests a mere psychological effect and not an energy flow.


I chose to believe first and foremost in what I can touch, experience, deduce and study. If I can't see something but can still see the effects I'll believe in that too.

In my belief system there's plenty of room for invisible forces, one of them is allowing me to post this (actually several of them but who's counting), all of the, however obey rational laws of science and can be tested.

Do you belive in love?

[Spank86]

Yes, but then there's a scientifically rational explanation for it as well as a clear evolutionary mechanism and benefit to its creation and existence.

[metalmonkey]

Yes, but then there's a scientifically rational explanation for it as well as a clear evolutionary mechanism and benefit to its creation and existence.

Okay good, I'd like to see hard facts, that have been peer reviewed, that is a proven theory within known science.

[Spank86]

There are plenty of neuropsychology studies in the subject. Love is just an electro-chemical reaction same as any other feeling it exists in our minds nowhere else.

Or did you mean Hollywood one true love? If that were the case then with 7 billion people on the planet almost no one would ever find it.

[metalmonkey]

There are plenty of neuropsychology studies in the subject. Love is just an electro-chemical reaction same as any other feeling it exists in our minds nowhere else.

Or did you mean Hollywood one true love? If that were the case then with 7 billion people on the planet almost no one would ever find it.

Evidence?

[Spank86]

Evidence of what?

That we can analyse the brain and see the changes that ocurr when we are In love?

I can give you a beginner article easily enough: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9981-instant-expert-love.html


But if you want a bunch of peer reviewed studies on the subject it might be best if you subscribed to a journal.

Or did you want evidence of the likelyhood of meeting one person out of seven billion that is 'the one' in an average lifetime?

[metalmonkey]

Your over thinking, there is a huge amount we don't know about the human body, I have several doctors, experts say they don't know much about how nervous system functions. So yes thete is some evidence it doesn't answer the question.

[Spank86]

There are interim steps that we haven't got to grips with, there always will be but we know enough that there is absolutely no need for a supernatural explanation.

And that's the best you can ever do with the supernatural, it cannot be directly tested by its very nature but when you have reduced it to irrelevant and unnecessary it's safe to dismiss it unless further evidence presents itself.

There's a lot we don't know abut parts of the brain and specifics but about how the nervous system operates overall? We know that. We can measure it and test it and if the nazis were around im sure they'd be cutting bits out of people's heads to remove the capacity for love.

Of course these days it's best to be ethical so we can't do that.

[metalmonkey]

Your over thinking, there is a huge amount we don't know about the human body, I have several doctors, experts say they don't know much about how nervous system functions. So yes thete is some evidence it doesn't answer the question.

[Spank86]

I would counter that you are under thinking but it might be misconstrued.

These doctors, are they talking about the brain or the nervous system because if they honestly don't know how the rest of the nervous system operates they might need a bit of a refresher Course.

Large parts of the brain are a mystery currently but the rest of the nervous system is pretty simple (relatively simple, I wouldn't like to build one from scratch)

What we DO know about the brain however easily accounts for such things as love and as I said before the theory of evolution provides us with a mechanism for developing it as it is clearly advantageous to the development of the species.

[Wideboy]

This thread is pure gold!

I've read back from the bread maker business and all I can say is LOL

[widepants]

Do you think there could be fairies in my garden?

[Wideboy]

Shhhh you might anger them!

[Biker Biggles]

Do you think there could be fairies in my garden?

Oi----No homophobic jokes please:confused:
Blessed are the cheesemakers and bonged out vegetables.:D

[dizzyblonde]

Do you think there could be fairies in my garden?

Everyone knows there are!

Do you not know about Ben and Hollies little Kingdom?:smt037

[widepants]

scared now and sending the 6 yr old out with a torch.

[dizzyblonde]

scared now and sending the 6 yr old out with a torch.

Watch out for BIG BAD BARRY :smt005

[Specialone]

This thread is pure gold!

I've read back from the bread maker business and all I can say is LOL

I take all the credit :)

[Sid Squid]

Yes, but then there's a scientifically rational explanation for it as well as a clear evolutionary mechanism and benefit to its creation and existence.
True.

....and if you have free nibbles next to the till :)
What's on sale? Whatever - I'm there, free nibbles would do it for me :D.

If you suffer from thinking that any mystic stuff has even a shred of truth in it read this:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0007140975.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg