Import duty charges

[Wildkid]

Have bought a item from the us but have checked my tracking and it says the item is being held?

its delivery status is Payment of charges - item being held, addressee being notified?

How do I go about getting my item now? and how much will I be charged :(

Thanks people

[Spank86]

Horrendous amounts.

The cheeky buggers even charge duty on the delivery cost.

Usually you'll get an envelope through with the details of how to pay but its not always that swift.

[Wildkid]

OH GREAT!

Another crappy tax that the UK are robbing me for!


So will it come through the post of the lump sum that their guna bend me over and roger me for??

[Tomor]

Yep :). Will be a nasty shock when you get the bill. With checking how much it will be roughly before you buy it as it may work out cheaper to buy it in the uk than bring it in :(

[savage86]

And they'll more than likely have taken it apart to search it and threw it back in anyway and let it bounce about. Happened me before.

[Wildkid]

How much would it be in a charge for about £80 -.-?

[Spank86]

VAT isnt it, 20%?

[Wildkid]

Yeah VAT is 20% so how much would I be charged?

[Spank86]

really?

20% of £80...

2x8

£16.

assuming the £80 includes all charges and delivery isnt on top.


Usually plus a few quid admin fee.

[Tomor]

Yes, up to 135 quid you only have to pay vat. Over and you have to pay custom duty as well.

[Wildkid]

really?

20% of £80...

2x8

£16.

assuming the £80 includes all charges and delivery isnt on top.


Usually plus a few quid admin fee.


thats what i was worried about all these duty charges and admin charges etc... -.-

[Spank86]

Well we can't tell you if the delivery company will add any admin charges on, perhaps you should ask them.

[Tomor]

When we bring stuff in parcel force slaps on an 8 quid admin fee!

[Wildkid]

I actually hate the UK -.- well not the UK its self just the people who run this country...

[Spank86]

Fair enough, I take it you'd rather not have an NHS then.

Then you might only have to pay 12% sales tax.

[Wildkid]

Fair enough, I take it you'd rather not have an NHS then.

Then you might only have to pay 12% sales tax.


Okay stop pointing out the floor's in my logic haha....

NHS is a good thing but not for the smokers who rake up the bills who put the tax rate up for it.

Lets leave it there before it turns into one massive rant lol..

[Spank86]

Good point, and those damn bikers who have a much higher injury rate than car drivers.


Wait, did you ask me to stop doing this?



Every country officially charges import duties, which s only sensible since buying from overseas worsens our trade deficit.

[Biker Biggles]

Dare I suggest that one of the great advantages of being in the EU is ---------No cross border taxes?
No? I thought not.

[Spank86]

No.

You could suggest its one of the benefits in being in the Common market.

[yorkie_chris]

I'm not sure about the admin fee, they usually charge it the sods. Dunno if there's a way to dodge that as as far as I'm concerned your only issue is with HMRC and the parcel company can do their f***ing job and deliver it.

[Biker Biggles]

No.

You could suggest its one of the benefits in being in the Common market.


It WAS one of the benefits of the common market,but its still a benefit of the EU,whatever you might think of the EU generally.:D

[Spank86]

It WAS one of the benefits of the common market,but its still a benefit of the EU,whatever you might think of the EU generally.:D

My point being that the eu is an unnecessary adjunct to the common market and that the free trade area doesn't rely on it.


And my bank still charges for European withdrawals the Gits.

[Specialone]

Its 10% import duty then 20% vat on the lot.

[Bibio]

i think the first £15 is not counted.

[yorkie_chris]

Its 10% import duty then 20% vat on the lot.

Surely the duty depends on the category of item?

[Spank86]

And price,

I don't think £80 breaches the threshold.

[Specialone]

Surely the duty depends on the category of item?

Yep, i think certain things would be exempt from vat but not import duty.

[yorkie_chris]

Yep, i think certain things would be exempt from vat but not import duty.

Certain things are lower rated on import duty too... for example the medical/disability stuff I used to work for an importer of. Like when there was a massive hoo-haa with the customs when they tried to say the disabled scooters came under the category of golf carts as they are rated much higher.

There is also a book as thick as your head containing all the different groups/classes/categories of stuff to import, then from that you could work out a percentage duty.

[yorkie_chris]

Ahhh yes the memory returns.

TARIC codes for whatever commodity you're importing.

https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/0904110000
For example... dried chillies... 0%

Chinese bicycles... 14%
https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/8712003090

etc etc etc until you puke.

Chances are it will just be VAT plus the "because we can" handling charge.

[Specialone]

I'll ask a good mate of mine who is an area manager for DHL, they import mega amounts of stuff on a daily basis.

I didnt know about the varying amounts for import duty, it used to be a blanket 10% for eveything.

[Sir Trev]

Happens a lot. My brother sent Ma a 70th birthday pressie this year from Aus but it was held for the same reason, even though it was marked properly as a gift on the paperwork (bet the inspectors hear that one all the time). Over a certain value they charge you regardless. Ma rightly said no to paying to get her pressie and they sent it back free of charge. The oldies go over in Feb so she'll just have to get it five months late.

Sucks but that's the rules.

Put us out of our misery - what is it you bought? And with hindsight wold you have bought it from a UK supplier who will have handled all those hassles for you??

[maviczap]

Surely the duty depends on the category of item?

Yes it does and the customs tarif book was about 4inches thick. Luckily it's on a cd these days.

Motor cycle parts will be different to complete motorcycles and also the country of origin will also detirmine the duty rate + vat at 20℅

[Wildkid]

I got charged £28 quid...

Feel like ive had my pants pulled down

[maviczap]

OH GREAT!

Another crappy tax that the UK are robbing me for!


So will it come through the post of the lump sum that their guna bend me over and roger me for??

Every country in the world has it's own Customs controls and import duty it's a way of raising revenue that pays for pretty much everything. So if you lived in the US and bought something from the UK you could still end up paying impor duty and sales tax.

We invented customs controls and import duty during King Charles 2nd reign.

It's also used as a method of protecting your own industries by ensuring that cheap goods don't flood the market and destroy your home market. By applying an import duty on it raises the price to make it a level playing field for our manufaturers.

But you were unlucky this time, as not all mail gets screened, depends how your seller sent this package.Some courier companies automatically calculate the duty to pay on non gift items.

If you buy from overseas companies don't expect to get it duty (& vat) free. If you bought it back in your baggage as a passenger you would still pay the duty and vat if it was over your personal allowance.

[Owenski]

I've just sent my contour hd cam back to the states for a fault which bricked it. I've been advised it will be marked as a warranty return when it comes back but I still may have to pay duty on it... Rediculas when it was originally bought in the uk so I've paid tax on it once already!

[maviczap]

No you shouldn't as import duty and vat were paid when it was originally imported. You don't pay the duty twice.

You just need to show that you did buy it in the UK.

[Owenski]

Precisely, i know i "shouldn't" but decision still lies with them doesn't it. If they charge me for it just what option do I have?
my concern is that on previous imports where I've been stung I don't recall an appeal option. The choice was either pay for it and get it or don't and don't. The Shiite end of the stick is that I'd rather pay the £40 than lose my £200+ camera.,

[L3nny]

A few years ago when ebay was still young and I had hopes and dreams I bought a load of game boy advance accessories from a supplier in China. Sold them all on ebay undercutting all the other sellers and was making a reasonable profit. Did this for about 3 months and used the profits as beer money.
3 months later I got a huge import tax bill. Was a lot more than the profit I had made and as I'd already spent it all I had to borrow the money to pay it.
In the words of Homer Simpson. "You've tried and failed, the lesson here is never try."

[Ceri JC]

I have ordered a tent from the states that costs £1300. Is there any sort of official calculator online that will tell me how much I need to pay once it arrives in the UK?

Previous items have never been more than £400 all in, including custom charges, so I've just paid it. This time, however, I'd like to know just how much I need to save to pay the charges!

What is particularly galling, is that I might need to pay £100 more for express delivery, depending on when it's ready. Quite how the cheeky sods at HMRC justify charging me extra for this, I don't know, but they will.

[Spank86]

Yes, theres lots of pages on the web that will allow you to calculate it.

[Ceri JC]

Tried a couple of different sites, seems I will need about £270.

Dammit, I've bought 2 British tents already, I've supported the British tent industry, I should be exempt! :D

[yorkie_chris]

That's not HMRC charging it I believe but actually parcelfarce, who are on a double winner because they get paid by the overseas shipper to actually do their f***ing job and deliver the goods.*


*Sorry whatever heap of scrap you actually end up with after the essential game of "fragile football"

[Ceri JC]

That's not HMRC charging it I believe but actually parcelfarce, who are on a double winner because they get paid by the overseas shipper to actually do their f***ing job and deliver the goods.*


*Sorry whatever heap of scrap you actually end up with after the essential game of "fragile football"

Oh, so even though it's UPS, it'll get handed off to Parcelforce for the UK leg of the trip?
:confused:

I wish there was a way of calculating the customs charges up front and just rolling them into the shipping charges (IE, UPS tell me what I need to pay, I pay them and they pay HMRC their cut). Naturally, I understand HMRC would still want to endanger my life by forcing me to use one of my other tents that'll be no good for -10c by holding the tent for a few weeks whilst they scratch their arses and prod the packaging a bit before releasing it.

[yorkie_chris]

UPS I'm not sure about, everything I've had from the US has been sent USPS then been passed to parcelfarce after customs.

I'll have a check for you as we get some stuff from the US by UPS.

[maviczap]

Precisely, i know i "shouldn't" but decision still lies with them doesn't it. If they charge me for it just what option do I have?
my concern is that on previous imports where I've been stung I don't recall an appeal option. The choice was either pay for it and get it or don't and don't. The Shiite end of the stick is that I'd rather pay the £40 than lose my £200+ camera.,

No there wouldn't be an appeal option, as the duty and vat would be correctly charged on the invoice value or declared value on the customs declaration attached to the package by your supplier. But if you thought you had been over charged then you can appeal.

But as your camera was purchased in the UK and tax paid, all you need to show your proof of purchase.in the UK. Any correspondance between you and Contour about your warranty claim would be useful.

[Runako]

Can't be bothered to create a new thread but I found this site useful as a tool for calculating import duty on the 14,000 different categories of goods you can import into the UK.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/

Free trial, 10 free calculations before registration required.

Charges calculated based on where item is being sent from, value of the item and postage/insurance. E.g. duty on motorcycle forks is approximately 4% and VAT 20%.

There is a limit before charges kick in, possibly £135 (HMRC won't publish these but have a 'helpline' to call) but for a £200 parcel you're looking at about £48 on top.

[yorkie_chris]

Are used parts still liable for duty? I've only ever been charged VAT and handling

[maviczap]

Yes, still duty on these, you might have got lucky YC :D

[thulfi]

NHS is a good thing but not for the smokers who rake up the bills who put the tax rate up for it.

Smokers cost on the NHS estimated to be between £3-5 billion (but not an easy stat to measure accurately). Total tax revenue from the sale of tobacco products 2011-2012 - around £9 billion.

[Runako]

Yes, still duty on these, you might have got lucky YC :D

Yes, very lucky. If only I could get away with that one.

[Captain Nemo]

i always find it amusing that people buy things abroard because theyre way cheaper than UK prices, then bitch because they have to pay import duty.

the point of import duty in the first place was an atempt to balance/restrict international competition to make goods produced in the commonwealth more attractive to UK customers.

if it was your company selling widget A in the uk and china was importing widget A and undercutting you, youd be pretty pleased that the chinese widget a had 20-30% added in i i think

[Runako]

i always find it amusing that people buy things abroard because theyre way cheaper than UK prices, then bitch because they have to pay import duty.

the point of import duty in the first place was an atempt to balance/restrict international competition to make goods produced in the commonwealth more attractive to UK customers.

if it was your company selling widget A in the uk and china was importing widget A and undercutting you, youd be pretty pleased that the chinese widget a had 20-30% added in i i think

Well thats a simplistic way of looking at it.

In reality its less of a scientific or theoretic reason behind it and more of an economic/rhetorical one. The import duty for goods purchased from China is more because of the trade imbalance. Fine.

What about second hand goods purchased from China? What about 2nd hand goods bought from China but manufactured in the UK? What about second hand goods full stop purchased from anywhere?

In reality, those goods have been taxed at sale or have already attracted import duty when first supplied. Why have to pay duty again? Can you therefore account for why there is a threshold in the 1st place? HMRC say only goods over a certain value will incur duty, but they don't publicise this value and it can change from time to time. So the rules implicitly acknowledge that the theoretic reasoning is not the real basis for these charges.

Its purely economic, i.e. revenue to the Tax man.

[Spank86]

Economically, any system that tried to account for the variables you suggest would be doomed to failure.

[Runako]

Exactly!

To expand. If the system was fair, it would account for personal use used items from countries that have already levelled tax or duty on the item. After all, these aren't manufacturer sales that are being impacted. There is no imbalance of trade in used goods. Its just that its probably uneconomic for HMRC to pursue duty charges for items under £100 in a value.

[Spank86]

other countries may have levelled duty, but the UK hasn't and quite often UK duty is higher so people would use it was a way round the system.

[Runako]

other countries may have levelled duty, but the UK hasn't and quite often UK duty is higher so people would use it was a way round the system.

Why should the UK levy further duty if the only purpose of the system was to redress a trade imbalance?

I understand how the system works. I just don't think there is a credible argument for charges on second hand goods (in most cases).

[Spank86]

1, because less duty will have been paid in other countries (usually)

and

2, because the purchase of second hand foreign goods still impacts on UK production if you're buying that instead of a UK product.

[maviczap]

1, because less duty will have been paid in other countries (usually)

and

2, because the purchase of second hand foreign goods still impacts on UK production if you're buying that instead of a UK product.

Precisely

And how would you prove that a 2nd hand part from China had actually paid its duty at source.

Bad example, as I can't see much trade in 2nd hand parts from China to here, most of is exported from the UK as scrap for them to use in their production processes.

Most of the trade will be from Europe or the US

[Runako]

What? Spank are you serious?

The UK's duty charges are not based on what other countries charge. There is no sense in number one as the basis for duty.

If we are talking about a consumer purchasing a second hand product for their own use (not to re-sell) how does that impact a UK retailer or manufacturer's ability to compete? Retailers and manufacturers sell new products. The unfair competition would come from other new comparable products which are subsidised outside of the UK.

[Runako]

Precisely

And how would you prove that a 2nd hand part from China had actually paid its duty at source.

HMRC is not trying to prove this by charging duty. Its a policy decision based on the trade imbalance due to the relative cost of goods. Its simply cheaper to make goods in China due to the cost of labour and other economies of scale, not due to the Chinese failing to overtax their own goods.

[Captain Nemo]

and whats to stop goods from China being imported into the UK as 2nd hand anyway, this sort of stuff isnt aimed at us buying the odd guitar or a set of headers or whatver its aimed at big companies importing millions of pounds of goods into the uk as a back door,

for example a piling company uses ex uk imported oil drilling pipe as piles, its high quality steel, and its expensive.

overseas companies aproach them to supply them with "used" equipment which is less than half the cost they pay now. its not used , its new , but the production costs mean its still cheaper than it would normally cost.

i agree that import duties can seem random and may seem unfair, if you just look at the ticket price for them .

the moral of this, BUY BRITISH :)

there are companies in china ripping off foreign designs wholesale and producing the exact product, some are good some are awful, they often even get passed off as original product, and again, equipment could be imported 2nd hand uk duty prev paid.

theres import export scams going on all the time, the revenue are chasing their tales all the time, we just get caught because were having things shipped in a really obvious and legal way

[Runako]

theres import export scams going on all the time, the revenue are chasing their tales all the time, we just get caught because were having things shipped in a really obvious and legal way

Now this is a point I completely agree with. This is the sort of stuff that Duty is necessary for. As i said, I understand why import duty is charged, just not the way the principle is applied. In particular to second hand consumer goods.

Its the small details in the rules. The limits, which are not publicised, and the seemingly arbitrary rate applied to different countries is the devil in the detail. Someone literally has to sit down and work it out or make it up. Why duty on goods over £40? What's the reason for a limit in the first place?

Anyway, I will not derail this thread further. i hope someone finds the calculator useful.

[Spank86]

What? Spank are you serious?

The UK's duty charges are not based on what other countries charge. There is no sense in number one as the basis for duty.

You're right they're not. Because that's ANOTHER unworkable system. But the fact still remains without UK duty charges local industry is much less protected even though some duty may have been paid to a foreign government.


If we are talking about a consumer purchasing a second hand product for their own use (not to re-sell) how does that impact a UK retailer or manufacturer's ability to compete? Retailers and manufacturers sell new products. The unfair competition would come from other new comparable products which are subsidised outside of the UK.

Because if you weren't buying a second hand part from overseas and sending money out of the UK economy you'd either be buying new here, OR buying second hand here off somebody else in the UK who would either pay VAT on the sale OR go on to buy other things within the UK providing economic stimulus and not negatively affecting our balance of trade. basically foreign purchases move money OUT of the system, local purchases keep it moving. How long do you think a fish tank would keep working if you took a cup of water out every day and gave it to a Chinese kid to drink?

[Spank86]

Its the small details in the rules. The limits, which are not publicised, and the seemingly arbitrary rate applied to different countries is the devil in the detail. Someone literally has to sit down and work it out or make it up. Why duty on goods over £40? What's the reason for a limit in the first place?

Anyway, I will not derail this thread further. i hope someone finds the calculator useful.

Why would they want to charge such small amounts of duty that it cost more to collect it than it was worth?

[Runako]

You're right they're not. Because that's ANOTHER unworkable system. But the fact still remains without UK duty charges local industry is much less protected even though some duty may have been paid to a foreign government ...etc

Yes, I understand basic economics. But this isn't how the system actually works. We could discuss economic theory, Industry Protectionism and Trade Imbalances but its not the point I was making.

I'm simply saying the narrow application of the rules in regards to second hand consumer goods from outside the uk does nothing but raise revenue for HMRC. It does not protect industry. Its idealistic to think making it more expensive for us to buy second hand goods from abroad will somehow stimulate consumer spending in the UK. In that case just ban imports.

The kind of purchases I'm referring to are a small fraction of consumer spending. Also, if I don't buy a used GSXR front end from the USA and instead purchase it from you, how is this protecting British Industry? Perhaps you might counter that ultimately the original bike was purchased in the UK and the money remains within the UK economy. And if you did this would be overly simplistic. Money goes in and out of the country every single day of the year. We could apply the same analogy to holidays. Many people can take a British holiday instead of going abroad, yet people prefer going away. The government may recover some of this money in the form of Travel Tax and holiday companies get some but significant spending goes abroad abroad. I'd warrant more money moves out of the UK this way than the loss from importing 2nd hand consumer goods.

Why would they want to charge such small amounts of duty that it cost more to collect it than it was worth?

How much does it cost to collect? Its easy for you to make this point, but you don't know how much its costs. You're assuming the limit is in place for this reason. But the fact is different goods have different thresholds so that can't be the answer.

Again, my point does not relate to the reason for duty in general. Its relating to duty for 2nd hand goods sold from outside the UK/EU for personal consumption (not business).

[Spank86]

Y

I'm simply saying the narrow application of the rules in regards to second hand consumer goods from outside the uk does nothing but raise revenue for HMRC. It does not protect industry. Its idealistic to think making it more expensive for us to buy second hand goods from abroad will somehow stimulate consumer spending in the UK. In that case just ban imports.
You'd like a worse than WW2 economy would you?

The kind of purchases I'm referring to are a small fraction of consumer spending. Also, if I don't buy a used GSXR front end from the USA and instead purchase it from you, how is this protecting British Industry?
Because it take the money and put it towards a triumph, OR just go buy a meal at aloce pub with it, it wouldn't go to a pub in the US.

. The government may recover some of this money in the form of Travel Tax and holiday companies get some but significant spending goes abroad abroad. I'd warrant more money moves out of the UK this way than the loss from importing 2nd hand consumer goods.

Offset by tourists coming in off course.



How much does it cost to collect? Its easy for you to make this point, but you don't know how much its costs. You're assuming the limit is in place for this reason. But the fact is different goods have different thresholds so that can't be the answer.
A lot of the limits on gifts are there to allow presents but to try to prevent abuse of the allowance or to match up with duty free personal allowances. How much does it cost to collect, well assuming a rate of 10% for duty (could be more or less I know(also worth noting that some duties charged are mirrors of that charged in other countries who are trying to protect their trade, see Japan vs America automobile wars)

£40 is gonna net you £4. You know how inefficient the government is and they onc estimated the cost of your bank sending you a letter at about £2.50.


Again, my point does not relate to the reason for duty in general. Its relating to duty for 2nd hand goods sold from outside the UK/EU for personal consumption (not business).because we'd label everything as second hand if it were possible to get a 20% reduction.

[Spank86]

There's not 1 reason for any of it.

There's a complex network of reasons.

[Runako]

Well some of that is incorrect. Firstly the typical rates are between 5% and 9% duty. But there is also VAT to consider. I object to VAT on second hand personal use goods for the same reason. You do not know the cost of collecting. Plus the point is that the threshold for when duty is charged differs depending on the type of goods. So it might be £40 for clothing, but its £135 for vehicle parts and £15 for other types of goods.

So to assess that the limit relates to the cost of collection is disingenuous.

I don't know what you mean about WW2 economy but banning all imports was rhetorical, tongue in cheek. Of course this would be ridiculous but its unlikely that the limits relates to the cost of collecting duty. Whatever the reasons are HMRC/Gov do not divulge this. Although I stand to be corrected. You find the policy or guidance on this and I'll happily read it.

"because we'd label everything as second hand if it were possible to get a 20% reduction."

So you're saying the reason for duty on second hand goods is because everyone would seek to exploit the system? So that means no one tries to exploit the system now, right? Ok then, what does HMRC do when they discover someone is trying to cheat the system? Yep, the seize the goods and/or levy charges. Why can't this be done for anyone seeking to pass of new as 2nd hand?

I could think of a system for re-classifying second hand goods and just make the fines and consequences for seeking to "pass off" as new more severe than a typical charge.

"Offset by tourists". Again, an assumption. The fact is, gov creates a policy sometimes and hope it works. The Government do not bank on Tourists coming in to balance the money that leaves the economy from UK holiday makers going abroad. This is too fluid to predict with any real accuracy. Its just one example of money going out. There are many others. The Channel Islands schemes used by the supermarkets?

"No one reason ..." There is only one real reason. Revenue.

[Spank86]

The channel island schemes have been shut down. That's why play.co.uk went out of business.

How would you prove if something was first or second hand? What even IS second hand?

If I own something and sell it to you it's second hand, but what if I never open it? What if I'm a warehouser? Just a middle man, I buy off the factory and hold it abroad before selling to you, is that second hand? By that logic everything's second hand.

It's an impossible system.

And no I don't know the cost of collection but I've just shown that for low figures its pointless (and you revising tax rates downwards only shows it more so, that supports my argument).


You don't need to predict with accuracy at any given time. You assess trends. Besides which you are supposed to pay tax on items brought back from abroad if they are over a certain value no matter how they come in.

[Runako]

The channel island schemes have been shut down. That's why play.co.uk went out of business.

The point is that people will always try and break the rules and there are always ways of trying to avoid the system which will lead to money flowing out of the UK. Before HMRC cottoned unto this, millions were lost in revenue (Supermarkets and Amazon were using this scheme and they made a ton).

How would you prove if something was first or second hand? What even IS second hand?

If I own something and sell it to you it's second hand, but what if I never open it?

Yes! And you can devise a workable system. There is a workable system for allocating extra tax to sweets which have a particular content of sugar in them. Whether the rule is always applied is a different matter but someone has sat down and devised this rule to apply to a very narrow area of imported product.

You don't need to predict with accuracy at any given time. You assess trends. Besides which you are supposed to pay tax on items brought back from abroad if they are over a certain value no matter how they come in.

??? In reference to what now (trends). If you're talking about tourism then this "offset" you refer to doesn't exist. It is simply not part of budgetary policy. Neither can the government plan for the amount of revenue that will be lost abroad from holiday makers, so they simply assess the general numbers going away and make sure to tax our assess on the journey in and out.

And no I don't know the cost of collection but I've just shown that for low figures its pointless (and you revising tax rates downwards only shows it more so, that supports my argument).

It supports nothing as your argument is based on the assumption that the reason for a lower limit is due to the cost of recovering duty. Its possible but there's no real basis for this argument other than the reasoning that it would cost a fortune to investigate every possible import below a certain value.

But the actual reason why they set a threshold is to do with economic policy and relates to commercial importers of goods. Of the 14,000 different kinds of imported goods, the Gov use a tariff as a means of trying to control imports. The higher tariff, and additional duty on some CAP goods, are just a guestimate mechanism to control the flow of foreign goods, without having to bear the administrative cost burden of using a quota system.

If they get the numbers wrong, they still benefit from the revenue. If they get it right, then there is less importation of certain types of goods, such as cars and this will have an effect on industry. They then simply adjust the rates as required.

So the thresholds relate to a general allowance for goods to enter the country before a duty applies, not the administrative cost of chasing duty. This is why there are varying thresholds.

[Runako]

This is all well and good but still relates back to import duty in general, whereas my point was about importing second hand goods for personal use. Some countries use a quota system and simply restrict the number of a particular product entering the country. In which case there must be a system of differentiating between similar types of goods.

So its possible to devise a system for used personal goods. Which is actually the only thing I'm referring to.

To prove the point Spank, if you lived in say Brazil and wanted to bring over your Panigale as you are returning to the UK to live, you can actually do it without paying duty as long as you meet all the criteria set by HMRC (which means filling out a ton of forms and proving that you owned it as a resident in another country before coming to live). But you can see how even this can be exploited if you're determined enough.

Point is, there are exceptions to the general rule so I argue these types of purchases should be included in the exception.

[Spank86]

So you think a £40 threshold is there to control goods input?


You think £41 of goods is something that needs controlling?

[Spank86]

Point is, there are exceptions to the general rule so I argue these types of purchases should be included in the exception.

But there's still no way to tell if something is second hand.

Its pretty easy to measure sugar content because its difficult to change that before and after transport.

It's pretty damn easy to open or close a box, or even just say "second hand, what I never opened it".

You might as well remove all import taxes for private purchasers if that was the case which brings the whole system down because then we could import cheaper than companies could so why would they?

[Runako]

But there's still no way to tell if something is second hand.

Its pretty easy to measure sugar content because its difficult to change that before and after transport.

It's pretty damn easy to open or close a box, or even just say "second hand, what I never opened it".

You might as well remove all import taxes for private purchasers if that was the case which brings the whole system down because then we could import cheaper than companies could so why would they?

Yes and yes. If its £40 for (lets say for argument sake) a double bubble screen, where the market in the UK sets a price of £50. Then duty is charged on anything over £40. If duty is, lets say, 10% then minimum cost to import is £52 (with VAT). Not as attractive to buyers in the UK = less imports.

That's why each category has a different threshold.

Used goods - whatever description you give it, as long as it has to meet a criteria. So lets say I'm HMRC. I therefore declare that second hand goods are those which are used, the criteria for which is that it is:

- Not in sealed packaging;
- Not tagged;
- Buyer's responsibility to prove that not purchased at its RRP or new market price;
- Must be marked as used by the Supplier.

I also add that any goods which fail to meet this criteria or which I have reasonable suspicion to believe are new (cause I'm all powerful like that) will be seized and a double penalty will be applied. " You can appeal ete etc, but you will lose".

As unrealistic as this may sound, its not too far from the truth.

Your scenario paints a picture of all goods not being subject to duty, which I've already said is ridiculous. I completely understand duty is there for a reason so to suggest that "no duty" is a natural extension of my argument is completely wrong.

Sugar content can be measured but again HMRC would not be applying this to you or I who've brought in a bag of venezuelan sweeties. The rule is there for the big importers. Yes, they can seize my sweeties if they can show its got the extra sugar and I refuse to pay the additional duty but this won't happen because I haven't reached the threshold for this item (unless I'm bringing in a whole suitcase load).

Really, the point was to say they can make a rule that precise, so why can't someone think up a reasonable rule for even certain types of second hand goods? Your insistence that its unworkable is just your opinion. I think it could work.

But it will never become an exception because it provides easy revenue to the gov. Reputable sellers don't want to take the risk of undervaluing items sent through customs as they could be investigated for fraud or tax evasion and thoughtful buyers like yourself don't want to cheat British industry, or at the very least risk your goods being seized. So we mostly accept the charge and pay (even if sometimes they assess it incorrectly - this happens all the time!).

[Spank86]

I'm not saying it couldn't work. Just that the costs would far outweighs the benefits.


Although the boost to employment would possibly be a plus at the moment.

Most of the reason people won't undervalue posted goods is for insurance reasons, there's no benefit to the seller in doing so and if something is damaged or lost there's a massive detriment.

[BanannaMan]

Best thing is to have a mate in the US.
No tax on gifts.
Just saying...
:-dd

[Runako]

Best thing is to have a mate in the US.
No tax on gifts.
Just saying...
:-dd

Showoff!

[BanannaMan]

Showoff!


No, I'm always willing to help a fellow org member.

[Runako]

No, I'm always willing to help a fellow org member.

Ah, I'm with you now. Be careful what you wish for! :)