Consumer rights refund question

[SV-net]

Purchased a pair of running trousers in Sports Direct, got home and they are too tight.
Took them back but they have no stock of the next size up.
I asked for a refund.
They said no, that I could only have a credit by way of vouchers.
The assistant was rude, abrupt and generally very unhelpful.
I had a look on the receipt and it states:-

"We are happy to offer an exchange or gift voucher for any unwanted items returned within 28 days of purchase. Items must be returned in their original packaging, in a saleable condition and with receipt".

"Refunds will only be offered in accordance with your statutory rights (which remain unaffected)".

So am I not allowed a refund or what? I tried to look online but its all legal jargon to me, does anybody here know?

[jandn1]

Basically if the goods are not faulty and are as described then no they dont have to offer a refund........ Sucks but thats the way it is. Might be something newer now it used to be sale of goods act 1979, been out of retail for 15yrs now. There is different rules for buying say over the net where you cant see the item.

[Tomor]

AFAIK a shop does not have to give a refund, they can give you store credit/vouchers. Just a way of making sure you spend the money IMO.

[SV-net]

Ok, so basically there is a lesson here.

Go to shop, find and try on what you want.
Go home and order it mail order online.
Then, the DSR will cover you for a refund.

Or, try the flipping garment on in the shop so you know it fits before purchasing it.

Ok, rules are rules. I don't make them, I just have to function within them. I just don't like the poor attitude I was treated with and shall NEVER shop in Sports Direct again. To be fair it was cheap c**p so maybe got what I paid for eh haha.

[squirrel_hunter]

Yeah been out of retail for some time as well. However the refund policy should be as important to a company as everything else as bad service is communicated faster then good, this thread a case in point. I know that where I work I would be happy to refund to the means by which you paid with the proof of purchase.

Now as stated above I think they may be correct in not having to give you the cash back however... Go back to the store and try again, you may have got the wrong member of staff at the wrong time. If that fails ask to speak to a manager, be polite and chances are they will refund you, don't however accuse the member of staff who refused of anything. Start doing that and the manager will back their staff, trust me on this, as a manager I would have to work with the staff again, chances are I wont see you again. And finally if all else fails the goods are not as specified and as such you are allowed a refund in accordance with your statutory rights. Let me explain, I take a Medium (please no jokes) I have bought this shirt marked Medium as I always do with this brand. But when I got it home it was too big. Therefore its not a Medium. I'm happy to exchange it, but you have no other sizes that I think may fit, besides how can I trust that they will be correct. Therefore the only option is a refund...

[savage86]

Would it be bad to put a small tear in them and say it was there??

[SV-net]

haha Savage86 whilst this wouldwork (technically) its not morally right and I could therefore not do it. Nice 'other' option though!

[madnlooney]

undo abit of the stiching and say it is coming away and would like a refund ;)

[Littlepeahead]

Many shops these days will give a refund but it's really at their own discretion.

I bought a bikini a few days before going on holiday, tried it on at home and it didn't fit. Now this morning I found the receipt in my purse which make me think I never took it back and it's now over the 28 days. I have no idea where I put it, or if I took it back. If I do find it I guess I can try taking it back to Debenhams and get a credit note, as I'm happy to spend a grand total of £17.50 in there, or I can keep it until next year's AR and someone else can wear it if it rains.

[EssexDave]

It's the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) that gives you the right to return faulty items with or without a receipt (although shop may want proof of purchase). The only important thing here is the goods must be faulty - for clothes this generally means ripped or stained.

Exchanges/refunds in any other sense are based on the goodwill of the shop and entirely up to them, they by no means have to just because you bought the wrong size or don't like it.

What that means is, if they are no good to you, I'd return them from the credit note and hold onto it until you find something else you want in there.

[ant-g]

In work on refunds and study the law so could be of some help!

In my place of work, which is a retailer, you are entitled to a full refund by whichever means you paid within 28 days of the purchase being made (poviding you provide proof of purchase). If the 28 days have passed (or there is no proof of purchase) then the customer is still entitled to a refund, however it is now by way of a refund voucher (credit note), or an exchange.

Briefs are not able to be returned for hygiene reasons. I'm not a runner so am not sure whether you wear anything underneath them (don't laugh); if just the trousers are worn then the refund can be refused, however it is at the managers discretion to decide whether the refund can go ahead.

The statutory rights are still largely contained withing the Sale of Goods Act 1979. S.14(2)b) states:

"For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability."

The trousers appear to meet all of these requirements and there is a lack of case law on the subject of size of an item; however you could say that in order to determine that the item fits an 'act will be done to the good before use' and they are sold for 'immediate use'. Thus the opening of the packaging is necessary in order to determine the fit.

It's unlikely that you'll get the money back for the item, the best bet might be to return to the shop and hope for a different member of staff, as squirrel_hunter said. It's often a metter of company policy and in this case the policy is "to offer an exchange or gift voucher", thus this is all you are likely to receive

[ant-g]

^^^ ESSAY WARNING ^^^

Bit late though :p

[Spiderman]

I bought a bikini a few days before going on holiday, tried it on at home and it didn't fit.

I think we need pics of this and we should be the judge of this, not you. As long as it was too small of course ;-)

[Littlepeahead]

Actually Zig it was a bit big on the bust and since Brock is still having counselling after I inadvertently had a Janet Jackson moment in his tent at the last AR I think it best I stick to lycra catsuits in future.

[Spiderman]

haha, poor Brock, it was probably the first boob he'd ever seen was it?
Erm, ok, lycra catsuits are groovy too :)

[chris8886]

AFAIK a shop does not have to give a refund, they can give you store credit/vouchers. Just a way of making sure you spend the money IMO.

correct and as far as i can remember from my time working in retail. you aren't even required by law to give an exchange/credit note either. reason being that when you purchased the item you were effectively entering into a contract where by you are agreeing with the vendor that the item is what you want to buy and is at an acceptable price etc etc. to yourself (retailers sometimes do this so as to prevent people from buying something from them and then having the person come back and return the item because they have found it cheaper somewhere else).

sounds crappy to a lot of people i know (had my fair share of disagreements with customers on it), but when you see it from a retailers point of view i think it makes it more understandable.

[SV-net]

Update.

Took item back again and decided I wanted to try another size and swap over. I always fit im medium clothes. The medium I purchased did not fit, so i tried a large which didnt fit so then extra large it didnt fit. Either the sizes a all messed up or I am a massive fat git and see myself as Jack Black saw Gwyneth Paltrow in Shallow Hal !!!

So decided ok, defeated. I would go to the returns desk and ask if I could get a gift voucher, the items value was £17.99 so I thought if I gave them another £2.01 I could ask for a £20.00 gift voucher and give as a present to somebody for Christmas. Guess what "NO CAN DO". Apparently because its a return they were unable to even do this simple task, even though I wanted to give them more money. So I moaned a bit, told them what I thought and also advised quite loudly to the large queues of people what was going on. haha.

One thing is for sure, I wont ever be going in Sports Direct again. They were rude, abrupt unhelpfull and a total shambles to deal with. They had no care for customer relations at all.

[chris8886]

One thing is for sure, I wont ever be going in Sports Direct again. They were rude, abrupt unhelpfull and a total shambles to deal with. They had no care for customer relations at all.

if there's something good to come from this, then this is it! sports direct and the like are what's killing the sports trade in this country (coming from having worked for a very small sports shop retailer i am a little biased in this opinion i do realise). the small men around are being suffoctated slowly by these sorts of companies!

[Littlepeahead]

But at least the small men can buy trousers there. Unlike normal men like the OP.

[chris8886]

But at least the small men can buy trousers there. Unlike normal men like the OP.

they can, but every brand come up differently with their sizes even when they say they're the same! tis always best to try em on before you buy them n if you don't have the time check on the shop's returns policy before you buy them.

[Runako]

In work on refunds and study the law so could be of some help!

In my place of work, which is a retailer, you are entitled to a full refund by whichever means you paid within 28 days of the purchase being made (poviding you provide proof of purchase). If the 28 days have passed (or there is no proof of purchase) then the customer is still entitled to a refund, however it is now by way of a refund voucher (credit note), or an exchange.

Briefs are not able to be returned for hygiene reasons. I'm not a runner so am not sure whether you wear anything underneath them (don't laugh); if just the trousers are worn then the refund can be refused, however it is at the managers discretion to decide whether the refund can go ahead.

The statutory rights are still largely contained withing the Sale of Goods Act 1979. S.14(2)b) states:

"For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability."

The trousers appear to meet all of these requirements and there is a lack of case law on the subject of size of an item; however you could say that in order to determine that the item fits an 'act will be done to the good before use' and they are sold for 'immediate use'. Thus the opening of the packaging is necessary in order to determine the fit.

It's unlikely that you'll get the money back for the item, the best bet might be to return to the shop and hope for a different member of staff, as squirrel_hunter said. It's often a metter of company policy and in this case the policy is "to offer an exchange or gift voucher", thus this is all you are likely to receive

Some of this isn't accurate. Its been explained more simply above. Size isn't an issue if the goods are fine. And any other remedy is a goodwill gesture.

[Runako]

One more thing, whilst I'm a big advocate of online shopping you should also note that the Distance Selling Regulations will require you to pay for the return postage before you can obtain a refund. This obviously means you won't get all your cash back when you balance against the cost of posting.

Also, online retailers tend to have commercial arrangements with couriers for economy of scale so the cost of you sending the item back in the same way can be rather more expensive that it cost the supplier. Depending on the item, you might also want to send it via Recorded or Special delivery which all adds to the cost.

[EssexDave]

One more thing, whilst I'm a big advocate of online shopping you should also note that the Distance Selling Regulations will require you to pay for the return postage before you can obtain a refund. This obviously means you won't get all your cash back when you balance against the cost of posting.

Also, online retailers tend to have commercial arrangements with couriers for economy of scale so the cost of you sending the item back in the same way can be rather more expensive that it cost the supplier. Depending on the item, you might also want to send it via Recorded or Special delivery which all adds to the cost.

True although a lot of good online retailers appreciate this and offer 'free' returns through their own couriers if you return the item within a set time limit.

I know www.wiggle.co.uk do this if you return it within 30 days, you print a postage label and drop at your local post office and done.

Very handy for buying clothes as with the problem here - sizes don't always tend to be universal and with an online only shop it can be a barrier to buying if it's so much hassle to return!

[ant-g]

Some of this isn't accurate.

Please explain any inaccuracies.

Size isn't an issue if the goods are fine. And any other remedy is a goodwill gesture.

Isn't the issue with the item their size? The goods are not defective, I was merely stating what constitutes the quality of goods.

Any remedy will be a good gesture by the company, however the company seems to be staffed by a bunch of scrooges!

[chris8886]

Please explain any inaccuracies.



Isn't the issue with the item their size? The goods are not defective, I was merely stating what constitutes the quality of goods.

Any remedy will be a good gesture by the company, however the company seems to be staffed by a bunch of scrooges!

to answer both of your points. when you as a customer buy something you are effectivley entering into a contract saying that at the time of purchase that you are happy with the item(s) that you're purchasing. therefore, as a result the seller is not required by law to give you a refund, credit note or exchange, unless the goods are fualty (and this can sometimes have to be determined by the manufacturer and so take a bit of time). so the seller in this particular case while seeming a bit scrooge like, as far as i can make out, have in no way broken the law.

[Runako]

to answer both of your points. when you as a customer buy something you are effectivley entering into a contract saying that at the time of purchase that you are happy with the item(s) that you're purchasing. therefore, as a result the seller is not required by law to give you a refund, credit note or exchange, unless the goods are fualty (and this can sometimes have to be determined by the manufacturer and so take a bit of time). so the seller in this particular case while seeming a bit scrooge like, as far as i can make out, have in no way broken the law.

Chris, I think the debate has passed this point although the way you've put it is spot on.

Ant-g, please don't get me wrong about the inacuracies bit but the reality in the way the sale of goods act is interpreted is different from your description.

Size is not an issue unless there is a discrepancy in the way it was advertised or described. Fit is subjective, unless there is a standard indication of size that can be objectively measured. But for clothing there is no universal standard of measure, so its difficult to argue that an ill fitting item is defective or faulty due to its size.

There is nothing in law that allows a consumer to try clothing for size in the home, having bought them in the shop, before deciding to return them for a full refund if they don't fit. So in this case size isn't a factor.

There is also no stated time limit of 28 days for a refund for "faulty goods" in the legislation.

A consumer can make a claim within 6 years of purchase (however ridiculous this may seem - but there are exceptions to and reasons for this).

We use the analogy of the John Lewis or Marks and Spencer standard to explain generous returns policies that help to create a consumer general assumption that this is a legal right. So there is no entitlement to a refund or otherwise for goods which are not faulty. None whatsoever, save for the right to return goods bought at distance (online, catalgue, mail order etc).

The specific procedure you describe is probably store policy but not a legal right.

[Runako]

And to clarify. Statutory rights for ALL goods:

Faulty / Defective - Refund (within a reasonably short time if the goods are rejected*), Repair, replacement or partial refund can be claimed within 6yrs of purchase;

Non faulty - No legal right to any of the above.

Faulty goods bought online - All of the above;

Non-Faulty goods bought online - Right to return the goods (at your own postage cost) for a full refund of the purchase price and outward delivery.

* This reasonably short period is not specified in the legislation and there are exceptions to this general rule.

[ant-g]

Size is not an issue unless there is a discrepancy in the way it was advertised or described. Fit is subjective, unless there is a standard indication of size that can be objectively measured. But for clothing there is no universal standard of measure, so its difficult to argue that an ill fitting item is defective or faulty due to its size.

There is nothing in law that allows a consumer to try clothing for size in the home, having bought them in the shop, before deciding to return them for a full refund if they don't fit. So in this case size isn't a factor.

There is also no stated time limit of 28 days for a refund for "faulty goods" in the legislation.

A consumer can make a claim within 6 years of purchase (however ridiculous this may seem - but there are exceptions to and reasons for this).

We use the analogy of the John Lewis or Marks and Spencer standard to explain generous returns policies that help to create a consumer general assumption that this is a legal right. So there is no entitlement to a refund or otherwise for goods which are not faulty. None whatsoever, save for the right to return goods bought at distance (online, catalgue, mail order etc).

The specific procedure you describe is probably store policy but not a legal right.

I am aware of this and totally agree with you (I got a first in consumer law but haven't looked at it in a while!); I was probably unclear with what I was trying to put across.

Yes the procedure which I described was for my place of work, not a specific legal remedy. This procedure may vary with company policies, as we can see with Sports Direct and their policy.

[Runako]

I got a first in consumer law Nice.