Section 59

[markc123]

Hi,
Yesterday I was pulled over by a police officer, given a talking to and served with a Section 59 notice for "Driving in an inconsiderate or careless manner".

The officer concerned was in a Transit and not traffic. Does anyone have any experience of these notices? It seem that they can be served without any requirement for evidence and with no recourse. A second one in 12 months and the vehicle can be impounded.

A bit of googling suggests that this legislation was designed to deal with problem boy racer / off road riding, but is now used by some officers as an easy way to issue some form of sanction where nothing else would stick.

My concern is that I was riding in the manner that I have done for years and never had any trouble, so what to do now?

[TCochrane]

Well.. were you driving in an inconsiderate and careless manner if you were to be 100% truthful to yourself?

[markc123]

Personally, no. I was riding slower than usual, with a large safety margin due to road conditions.

Though another person could easily have had another opinion, which is where this legislation has it's problems.

[Bibio]

place an appeal to have it removed from your record with your version of our 'procurator fiscal' if you have one and also send a letter to your MP.

[timwilky]

My understanding is that there is no appeal against a section 59. It is the cops word against yours. He cannot prove you have committed an offence So this is an official method of putting a black mark against your name. As in a formal record that you have been warned.

[Bibio]

so police officers are now jury, judge and executioner.

[TSM]

judge dread

[markc123]

so police officers are now jury, judge and executioner.

This would seem to be the case.

Just had a word with a friend in GMP - he says that their advice on performing a second Section 59 for seizure should only be done if they can also prosecute at the same time - ie under dangerous driving.

Was a very odd day all in all, my suspicion is that the officer involved had a beef with bikes / I failed some kind of attitude test. I was very polite throughout, but he kept pushing me to admit that I had been trying to get away from him. I only noticed him when I slowed into a 30 and heard the siren. I know I had been checking my mirrors as I was looking for another rider behind me.

[Bibio]

interpretation of the law by police officers... bloody marvelous.
[F1 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/3#commentary-c1397105)3 Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.]

[Jayneflakes]

I only noticed him when I slowed into a 30 and heard the siren.

It is possible that this is why you were pulled. If the officer deemed that you failed to see the police vehicle in pursuit.

Bad luck old chap and maybe consider some mirror modifications. :smt102

[acting_strange]

This may be of interest...

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=61388

[Jackie_Black]

Prior to this when was the last time you got pulled? There's so few coppers about these days the chances of you actually seeing another one in 12 months are slim. Try not to worry about it. My brother got one of these a few years ago when driving a company van for something equally pathetic. He was initially worried but because like you he doesn't drive like a knobber and not all police hate everyone he never had a problem in the following 12 months.

[Messie]

I got one of those ( and deserved it for it could've been worse).

Like the very sensible person I am, I remained within the law (at least in that area ;) ) for the next year.

Nothing more came of it.

btw the poor young police officer was slightly embarrassed giving that to a woman who was clearly old enough to be his mother

[Paul the 6th]

Does the section 59 relate to the vehicle or you as an individual?

[Messie]

I think both. I was told that if I was caught doing such and such again on the same bike, it would be crushed. I'm not sure what the personal penalty to me was threatened to be.

I don't like Eastbourne :(

[markc123]

Prior to this when was the last time you got pulled? There's so few coppers about these days the chances of you actually seeing another one in 12 months are slim..

Last time was 13 years ago!

And yes, it applies both the Vehicle and the driver - not an issue here as my bike is only for me. Could be embarrassing on a company vehicle though.

[BoltonSte]

Mark, this your usual stomping ground? Just wondering if the villagers have had enough of you/another blue bike and complained (not a dig, just wondering) is there any way to find out?

I'm assuming you were in a 60 dropping to a 30? What chance does a transit have of catching you quickly anyway? By the time they've set off you're gonna be nearly a mile up the road even at the speed limit, throw in corners and it's not surprising you coldn't pick them up in the mirrors. If you can, then complain, but I think they were gunning for you (see above) especially if you had Josh behind with that can/plate and he was ignored.

[markc123]

I have not ridden up there since September IIRC, not been out much at all this year. I'm super careful in villages with 30 limits and horses etc as everyone in the area knows my employer!

Could be someone else thats annoyed them, but other anecdotal evidence suggests that they are having a bit of a crackdown atm. Just unlucky on my part I guess.