View Full Version : Muslim who grooms and rapes spared jail.
Dicky Ticker
27-01-13, 12:33 PM
I have always understood that ignorance of the law was no excuse.This opens the doors for wild spread abuse using case stated as a defence.
Another judge who does not live in the real world.
EDIT : See this link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html
Was the fact that he was a Muslim relevant?
timwilky
27-01-13, 12:53 PM
What case is this DT, link please.
As for the alleged perpetrators religion, this hardly matters apart from the fact that there does seem to be a number of cases of Asian men operating in paedophile rings grooming and then abusing vulnerable young girls lately. I am not saying there is a higher proportion of Asian pervs to home grown ones. Just a number of higher profile cases, Rochdale and Rochdale and Oxford. Then we have Cyril Smith who liked his boys in....Rochdale.
And of course the most prolific of paedophiles is of course our own grown Sir Jimmy.
But back to DT's original pot and it does not take a lot of googling to find
A 2012 report by the Deputy children's commissioner said that 33% of child sex abuse was committed by Asians in Britain, where Asians are 7% of the population, but concluded that it was "irresponsible" to dwell on the data
Sid Squid
27-01-13, 12:57 PM
Yes, his being a Moslem is relevant, as a pivotal part of his defence was that women are of lesser value in his faith/culture.
Mac; I too am somewhat surprised at the apparent leniency of the sentence. Ignorance of the law isn't a defence, and the suggestion that having a different culture and/or faith meaning the law will apply in a different manner is deeply worrying.
MisterTommyH
27-01-13, 01:02 PM
...and the suggestion that having a different culture and/or faith meaning the law will apply in a different manner is deeply worrying.
That is indeed worrying. I am very liberal when it comes to issues of immigration and race, however this is paving the way for it to be acceptable to practice Sharia law in segregated communities. And you can bet that wouldn't be applied in a different manner to those from a different culture/faith.
Specialone
27-01-13, 01:18 PM
What is really sad is the religions preach about love and all that crap and the Asians are probably most religious race on this planet, so what's happened?
This has been happening in brum too btw.
tbh, I don't believe that he was ignorant of the law in this country - hell's teeth, the media haven't exactly been quiet on this sort of thing down the years. And I find it very hard to believe that a father in a Muslim country would allow his daughter to become the plaything of a group like this.
Its about time the judiciary in this country grew some proper ones.
timwilky
27-01-13, 01:31 PM
more on google finds what I think this thread is about
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html
So I agree with the sentiment, since when has ignorance of the law been a defence. but his religion was his defence
Biker Biggles
27-01-13, 01:34 PM
That is indeed worrying. I am very liberal when it comes to issues of immigration and race, however this is paving the way for it to be acceptable to practice Sharia law in segregated communities. And you can bet that wouldn't be applied in a different manner to those from a different culture/faith.
Me too.
There is either more to this than what is being reported,or the whole thing will surely be referred to the high court for a new sentence?
timwilky
27-01-13, 01:45 PM
That is indeed worrying. I am very liberal when it comes to issues of immigration and race, however this is paving the way for it to be acceptable to practice Sharia law in segregated communities. And you can bet that wouldn't be applied in a different manner to those from a different culture/faith.
We do not know the poor girls religion, but are you saying she if a muslim then she would have found it acceptable to have sex at 13 because he was a muslim man.
I know that girls do have sex at 13, and think it acceptable. But as a society we have a duty to protect our children from both themselves and predators that pry on their immaturity and naivety.
Luckypants
27-01-13, 01:59 PM
This is very worrying, as others have said. Ignorance of the law is no defence in UK law and saying you didn't know because you had a Muslim education / upbringing just makes a damning indictment of your religion and upbringing.
I sincerely hope this case is referred to the Court of Appel as an excessively lenient sentence.
More worryingly, I can only find that Daily Mail report in mainstream media. Nothing on BBC or other major newspaper's websites. Such a lenient sentence needs to be highlighted, whatever the background to the case.
Yes, his being a Moslem is relevant, as a pivotal part of his defence was that women are of lesser value in his faith/culture.
.
Thanks for clarifying Sid. In that case, hang the ****er.
Specialone
27-01-13, 02:12 PM
This is very worrying, as others have said. Ignorance of the law is no defence in UK law and saying you didn't know because you had a Muslim education / upbringing just makes a damning indictment of your religion and upbringing.
I sincerely hope this case is referred to the Court of Appel as an excessively lenient sentence.
More worryingly, I can only find that Daily Mail report in mainstream media. Nothing on BBC or other major newspaper's websites. Such a lenient sentence needs to be highlighted, whatever the background to the case.
Is it because it's only the daily mail have the balls to print it?
I'm guessing other media sources don't wanna be seen as racist or discriminatory.
Luckypants
27-01-13, 02:17 PM
I'm guessing other media sources don't wanna be seen as racist or discriminatory.But that is exactly what they are being by not running the story. I hope that is not the case.
MisterTommyH
27-01-13, 02:20 PM
We do not know the poor girls religion, but are you saying she if a muslim then she would have found it acceptable to have sex at 13 because he was a muslim man.
No Tim, was trying to make a comment on the law in general rather than focusing on the sexual nature of this case - as I don't know much about it, and coverage seems to be limited.
If religion / culture is used as an excuse for the law being applied differently then it is a dangerous precedent. The law (any part of it) should be applied irrespective of these differences,
There have always been urban myths about people using excuses that certain practices were part of their religious beliefs I.e. rastafarianism, but I've always dismissed it as rumour and thought it wouldn't wash with a judge. I just hope that this kind of argument isn't starting to become acceptable...
Spank86
27-01-13, 02:24 PM
Thanks for clarifying Sid. In that case, hang the ****er.
That might be a bit harsh when it seems from what ive read like the offence was statutory rape.
Not that I'm excusing it
Maybe the guy is ignorant of our laws but according to Sharia Law, rape is called Hirabah and falls under the banner of causing disorder in the land - punishable by stoning to death. In other parts of the Muslim world it is considered to be adultry, or forced adultry - punishable by stoning to death.
There is no such thing as rape within the marriage, in Sharia Law, but the laws are pretty clear that forced sex outside of marriage is punishable by death...
I guess the next question would be would he have done it in a Muslim country?
timwilky
27-01-13, 02:58 PM
They would have stoned the girl for adultry. as in sex outside of marriage.
21QUEST
27-01-13, 03:06 PM
It's difficult to believe he didn't know it'd be an offence to have sex with a girl of 13...I don't believe he didn't know that.
Regarding his faith being pivotal to his defence, I'd take what has been written with a pinch of salt.
Even if it's as reported(Lolipop references etc) , wonder if it were suggested by his defence, member of his family etc.
I'm not about to get overly wound up by just one particular case, as it just seems our whole Judicial machine is a bit warped somewhat.
It apparently goes on more than we might prefer to believe...Some links below.
I do find it a concern that his defence(or who ever it was) would have thought to use his religion as some sort of excuse or reason. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I think it's something we should be concerned about in Britain.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/article4353029.ece
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article4440892.ece
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3053657/Sex-swap-paedo-spared-bad-time-in-jail.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/1094148/Sylvia-Pearce-Paedo-Grandmother-Spared-jail.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/265805/Evil-monster-spared-jail-term.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/91765/Porn-judge-walks-free.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3432593/Pervert-who-groomed-a-schoolgirl-of-14-for-sex-is-told-by-judge-he-is-not-a-real-paedophile-and-spared-prison.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/172407/Shame-on-courts-that-let-pervert-Goad-stay-free.html
Maybe the guy is ignorant of our laws but according to Sharia Law, rape is called Hirabah and falls under the banner of causing disorder in the land - punishable by stoning to death. In other parts of the Muslim world it is considered to be adultry, or forced adultry - punishable by stoning to death.
There is no such thing as rape within the marriage, in Sharia Law, but the laws are pretty clear that forced sex outside of marriage is punishable by death...
I guess the next question would be would he have done it in a Muslim country?
They would have stoned the girl for adultry. as in sex outside of marriage.
Adultery (Zina), includes incest, paedophilia, rape & pimping. They would have stoned the girl if a) she knew the man was married, b) she was married to someone else. They would have also stoned the man.
The above are covered under the tier of Hudud crimes. However, many Islamic countries rarely enforce Hudud penalties, prefering to use Tazir Law which basically gives a slap on the wrist.
A 'true believer' of the Quran has very strong views on rape, not dissimilar to those of a westerner.
Unfortunately, in Sharia Law sex crimes need 4 witnesses.
yorkie_chris
27-01-13, 04:36 PM
Strange case, is he contrite and confused or laughing all the way to the bank that his "poor naive mental b*stard education" excuse has worked?
Most importantly, was she white and did he pick her up in an impreza? I don't see any gold teeth but if the above are true then take him outside and shoot him!
Is it because it's only the daily mail have the balls to print it?
I'm guessing other media sources don't wanna be seen as racist or discriminatory.
But that is exactly what they are being by not running the story. I hope that is not the case.
That's what the daily mail sell on, outrage and controversy.
Sid Squid
27-01-13, 04:36 PM
Considering the details of the story, the suggestion that he was ignorant of the law, that her age had a bearing on that or that he hadn't intended to have sex with her stretches the bounds of my credibility somewhat. He had booked a hotel room some time prior to their meeting - that speaks volumes.
I do hope it's reviewed, there's no question that he is somewhat naive and demonstrates a certain lack of worldliness, which seems to be caused by his overly and discriminatory religious upbringing, but I still have a hard time accepting that he didn't fully intend what happened.
All of the above is upsetting enough - compounding that with the naivety and apparent discrimination demonstrated by the sentencing is what really jars.
k1ngy SV
27-01-13, 04:54 PM
Mac; I too am somewhat surprised at the apparent leniency of the sentence. Ignorance of the law isn't a defence, and the suggestion that having a different culture and/or faith meaning the law will apply in a different manner is deeply worrying.
#
I Agree. ](*,)
Just to add.
so does that mean terrorists aren't doing nothing illegal? since they are taught to kill or whatever. :smt066
Specialone
27-01-13, 05:51 PM
Not knowing the law in a foreign country youre in offers zero excuse, you don't face the death penalty for drug trafficking over here but you do in the eastern Asian countries, as that british grandmother found out recently.
Spank86
27-01-13, 06:29 PM
Considering the details of the story, the suggestion that he was ignorant of the law, that her age had a bearing on that or that he hadn't intended to have sex with her stretches the bounds of my credibility somewhat. He had booked a hotel room some time prior to their meeting - that speaks volumes.
Perhaps he didn't know her age or he booked the room for himself as he was planning to stay the night?
I suspect the judge knows a lot more than the daily mail and by extension us.
The only details we have is that an 18 year old had consensual sex with a 13 year old and was then convicted for statutory rape.
timwilky
27-01-13, 06:46 PM
Perhaps it would have been better this not reported to the police. I would guess dad justice more appropriate.
Fordward
27-01-13, 07:56 PM
If he didnt want to have sex with her but was seduced by her, I wonder why he booked a hotel room in advance and arranged to meet her there, what was wrong with McDonalds or Pizza Hut?
Spank86
27-01-13, 08:25 PM
Staying the night?
21QUEST
27-01-13, 08:43 PM
If he didnt want to have sex with her but was seduced by her, I wonder why he booked a hotel room in advance and arranged to meet her there, what was wrong with McDonalds or Pizza Hut?
Where did you read that please?
Perhaps, they they had already been to Pizza Hut/McDonalds prior to going to the room?
dizzyblonde
27-01-13, 08:44 PM
Just so folks know, there has been a case highlighted on the BBC all week, from Oxford. A group of men I believe.
It is disturbing, as only last year IIRC, 9 men were on trial for grooming white girls in Rochdale. I've seen how it works, living closely to the Asian community. Those of you who are commenting here, may recall the thread in which I recalled a colleague being the victim of an attempted abduction into a car full of Asian men. Also how my mother stopped the grooming of two girls by two Asian men in her pub, and how the police were using surveillance to catch them, as it wasn't the first time.
You may also recall my Asian male colleagues reaction to the attempted abduction. Just because theses vile men groom very young and impressionable girls, doesn't mean they are all like this.
I know an MP in Keighley IIRC has been working hard to get this sort of thing stopped from happening. I'm sure a bit of googlefu will find it well documented
Sid Squid
27-01-13, 10:19 PM
Perhaps he didn't know her age or he booked the room for himself as he was planning to stay the night?
Which, had this been the case, would have been a very important part of his defence.
But it wasn't.
Daily Mail not the only publication to cover this, nor is it the only way to have garnered info on the case.
Spank86
27-01-13, 10:23 PM
Well if his defence was I didn't know it was wrong, the timing of when he learnt her age (assuming it was still before the sex act) wouldn't have been that relevant.
unclepoo
27-01-13, 10:57 PM
It seems quite obvious to me that a small number of asian men assume they can treat women as 2nd class and can do with them what they like, only recently a woman in india was gang raped on a bus and then killed...and this is not out of the ordinary. Then the gangs of men in Derby and Rochdale etc grooming and drugging girls to pimp them out. This is just one more example, but because it`s the Mail that reports it and anyone with an opinion about it is labeled a racist.
21QUEST
27-01-13, 11:03 PM
For the record.... "I'm not a racist but anyone is free to label me to their hearts content"
Dicky Ticker
27-01-13, 11:38 PM
From the report I gleened, he was an 18 year old student,therefore quite conversant with British society.groomed this girl for 2 months on the internet.
Travelled from Birmingham to Nottingham,booked a hotel in the city centre,had sex with the girl and left after 2 hours.
Mr Adil Rashid has made a mockery of British Justice and the judge who deferred his sentence should be disrobed in my opinion.
Can I take it that an 18 year old non Muslim would be within his rights to do similar to a 13 year old Muslim girl as she is worth the same as a lollipop lying in the street.
I THINK NOT.
Spank86
28-01-13, 12:09 AM
It does sound like the message from the Muslim community is that it's fine to rape their women since they aren't worth anything.
Very bizarre behaviour.
Sid Squid
28-01-13, 11:56 AM
I spent some time in North Africa in the 1980's, perhaps things have changed since then, but in those times, in those countries women didn't get treated as second class citizens - they seem to be considered as barely more than property.
timwilky
28-01-13, 12:08 PM
At least in an enlightened Afghanistan, women no longer have to walk 10 yards behind their menfolk. But now have the honour now walking 10 yards in front.
At least in an enlightened Afghanistan, women no longer have to walk 10 yards behind their menfolk. But now have the honour now walking 10 yards in front.
So they step on the IED first...
Devil Biccy
28-01-13, 09:58 PM
It does sound like the message from the Muslim community is that it's fine to rape their women since they aren't worth anything.
Very bizarre behaviour.
Just because there is no spokes person from the muslim community defending the honour of women in muslim society in this situation doesnt mean they don't give a damn about there women. The first convert to Islam was a woman!. Muslims around the world interrepret the role of Women and islam differently. There is much confusion between culture and Religion. The majority of muslims who understand and practice there religion on a daily basis will fully support any form of punishment that is handed out for crimes of this nature. I agree that the judge has been too lenient but I know of many instances where the community responds in there own way after the judicial system has made its judgement.
Spank86
28-01-13, 10:04 PM
I wasn't being entirely serious Devil.
The Idle Biker
28-01-13, 10:07 PM
I know of many instances where the community responds in there own way after the judicial system has made its judgement.
and I hope this is an example where someone finds the slimey fecker and kicks his balls to a pulp.
Sid Squid
28-01-13, 10:14 PM
There is much confusion between culture and Religion.
True, hence the reason for my writing;
culture and/or faith
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