Alcohol

[Dicky Ticker]

Is it as bad as smoking?

[Thunderace]

Well when I said smoking is my vice in the smoking thread, I may have neglected to mention I have 2 vices! Lets hear it for the beer!

[Fruity-ya-ya]

Define bad.
If you mean harmful to yourself then yes.
If you mean harmful to others then yes :)

Problem is both are enjoyable although I would guess occasional smoking might be more harmful (both yourself and others) than occasional drinking (not binging on either) like a cigar or two at Christmas or a couple of glasses of wine with a meal out.

That said I'm a believer in 'everything in moderation'.

[Dicky Ticker]

Cost to the NHS,spewing up,causing fights,civil unrest,annoying other people,drinking in public and worst of all driving while over the limit-----to mention a few.

[Cymraeg_Atodeg]

If you smoke too much you don't become a douché bag and fight people, you'll just be sick.

Alcohol is worse for your health and emotional state.

I am not saying smoking is good, but, alcohol is worse.

And don't even get me started on caffeine!

[Jayneflakes]

When working a boring student job I watched a man buying Cider in the off license, despite my knowing that he was going to die of liver failure. Should I have sold him the booze?

In his case the booze was fatal and he died. My hard side comes out here, because it was his choice. As I said in the smoking thread, it all comes down to freedom of choice and as adults we make that choice.

When I drank I liked it, but when it stopped being fun I stopped drinking. I do not do addiction. :why:

[phil24_7]

Alcohol is much worse than smoking and the vast majority of illegal and legal drugs...but I do happen to like the odd tipple!

[dizzyblonde]

Alcohol in sensible moderation has benefits. Red wine so they say. If sensible, you don't die I'd drink related diseases, unlike smoking.

I aren't particularly comfortable around totally blotto people. I get extremely nervous. That's my murky pasts fault.
I may have a glass or two of wine a week, but not every week. I like red wine, I unwind a lot whilst sat with a glass. I try not to get drunk. I don't like it, nor do I like the feeling of being out of control. That again stems from bad experiences of my past. Mainly other people, not myself.

[BanannaMan]

When I drank I liked it, but when it stopped being fun I stopped drinking.


This.
Still enjoy a few mixed drinks on the odd occasion.

[Fordward]

excess of alcohol is bad

alcohol in moderation is fine

a glass a day of red wine is good

any amount of cigarettes are bad

so no alcohol not as bad as cigarettes as a rule

[Brettus]

alcohol in moderation is fine

any amount of cigarettes are bad


+1

[NTECUK]

Alc is worse than smoking when you do it too exsses.
Plus drinking makes me fat.
and when I smoked I was thinner ...

[Dicky Ticker]

Over indulgence in smoking only has direct affect on the person partaking where as over indulgence in alcohol can cause all sorts of affects on other people not just the drinker.

[yorkie_chris]

All hail to the ale!

[NTECUK]

Over indulgence in smoking only has direct affect on the person partaking where as over indulgence in alcohol can cause all sorts of affects on other people not just the drinker.
Not if passive smoking is taken into account

[Dicky Ticker]

Passive smoking you can either move away from or ask the person to move away,seldom with any adverse reaction if you are polite but somebody under the influence of alcohol is not quite as rational. Few fights are caused through passive smoking but I would say that the majority of fights or domestic disharmony are fueled by alcohol.In addition to this few people are in A&E due to passive smoking but plenty due to alcohol related injuries.
I am not talking about reasonable minded people who have manners or drink in moderation but your drunks and binge drinkers

[dizzyblonde]

Precisely. I've never had to turf a smoker out of a wardrobe or wrong room, because they're so intoxicated they have no control over themselves!

[Dicky Ticker]

Chuckle:D

[NTECUK]

passive smoke can affect kids though.
thinking more your 15 &pregnant type who probly smoked through the term anyway...

[dizzyblonde]

Passive smoking does affect kids. My eldest suffered with asthma for years.
Amazing how nobody smokes near him or this house anymore.....and it magically went away!

[yorkie_chris]

Asthma can naturally lie dormant and come back at times with age but ciggy smoke can be a trigger for it.

I found asthma symptoms stopped when I was smoking, until I would catch a cold, then they'd be back with a vengeance.

[Balky001]

Most people handle drink OK with no ill effect. Most people that smoke do get some sort of health issue. However, if we are talking about excessive amounts then alcohol can have an instant (and terrible) effect on the drinker and/or others around them

So, alcohol can be very bad but not always, smoking is almost always bad but over a long period of time.

[NTECUK]

smoking is almost always bad but over a long period of time.
Trying to juggle how bad the effect is difficult .One ofgranda'sgot to 98 smoking a pipe and drank about 3 pints a day .Alzimers meesed him up in the end.
'Tuther one made 87,no sooner did one fag go out the next was lit.
He died of throat cancer so was the fags that was likely responsible.
But he had nearly all his marbles.
So Did he get the ballance wrong???

[Dicky Ticker]

My dad did not smoke or anybody else in the house but my mun died riddled with cancer at 46 with a prolonged illness. A non drinker and a none smoker
Grandad 97 on the other hand smoked a drank all his life and died of a massive heart attack while making a cup of tea,nothing detrimental beforehand
Life seems to be the hand you are dealt.

[phil24_7]

Cigarettes CAN be a trigger for cancer to grow, as can alcohol and many other things we do in life. They can often trigger nothing too. Go figure!

[Shawthing]

Quote ' Alcohol, the cause of and solution to, all of life's problems. '
Homer Simpson

[5hort5]

Depends on how much you drink, if you go home and drink beer like water every night then that's probably to much. If you have the odd drink then its fine unless the odd drink is a skin full every friday, then that's also bad. Smoking, worse than alchol unless drinking a bottle of wine a night or multiple cans in which case they are both V bad.

(Says the bloke who gave up smoking 4 months ago and also gave up alchol to ensure he gave up smoking. Becks Blue is the way forward :-) I do like a nice cold beer when I get home )

Intersting thing happened when I stopped drinking full fat beer and smoking at the same time .... I have lost a stone in weight even though I was eating more, guess that Carling really does have a lot of sugar.

[sniff]

I dont drink very often. When I do I want to go home after 3 or 4 pints. Had my first beers last Thursday since Christmas day. Dont think I'll have another until my Birthday in middle of March. Then again I doubt really if I will drink. SHould be at Donnington for BSB testing.

One thing that annoys me is the media calling it "binge drinking" Funny that we have been drinking on Friday and Saturday night for the last 500 years. But cos its the 21st century we need to make up some crap to blame someone else for peoples drinking habbits.

I do smke too but then again being a boring gimp I need something to do without all the beers or any other hobbies.

[Littlepeahead]

One part of Chelmsford town centre is a no-go zone on a Friday and Saturday night now if you want to enjoy a drink in a bar. It's full of teenagers and those in their early 20s who get pretty pi$$ed up before they even go into town and they continue drinking until 2am or later. The fighting, puking, peeing in the street anti social behaviour is nasty - and that's just the girls!

It used to be that you would go out for the evening at 8pm and the pub shut at 11pm so you never really got that horribly drunk - well not on a weekly basis,we all had the odd binge. If you wanted a big night you had to go to a nightclub, dress up smart and pay a an entrance fee to get in and if you were already drunk they didn't let you in the door.

I really think the relaxation in the opening hours of pubs has been a bad thing. The government thought that by allowing the bars to stay open longer we would become a nation of classy wine drinkers sitting in pavement bars sipping a nice Chablis like they do in Paris. Instead the A&E departments are nearly as busy as the Happy Hour focused pubs.

[phil24_7]

The bar prices (Rent, rate and duty have a big part to play in this) coupled with the massive rise in the cost of living are big causes of binge drinking. In years gone by you didn't drink before you left the house because you didn't have to as drink was quite cheap and you had enough money for the occasional blow out. Now it's getting too expensive so you get tanked up before you go out to save money, that way you only need to top up your drunkeness!

[disco2]

I don't drink used to a lot,way to much and yes did get into fights (when drinking on southend seafront it was hard not to) I also used to do wing chun (you can see where this is going cant you) from a young age stopped about 8 years ago (14 in total) the 2 didn't really mix 2 well with me to be honest so the booze went.

Love a smoke tho I know I should stop and I know I can but at the moment I see no reason to....

[ClunkintheUK]

Passive smoking you can either move away from or ask the person to move away,seldom with any adverse reaction if you are polite but somebody under the influence of alcohol is not quite as rational. Few fights are caused through passive smoking but I would say that the majority of fights or domestic disharmony are fueled by alcohol.In addition to this few people are in A&E due to passive smoking but plenty due to alcohol related injuries.
I am not talking about reasonable minded people who have manners or drink in moderation but your drunks and binge drinkers

What about an asthma attack brought on because my flat mate decided it was ok to smoke in the kitchen. He was asked politely, then very forcibly to not smoke in the kitchen. (this was over a period of time, not just one day). he did not smoke a lot, and I didn't spend more then 45 mins in the kitchen a day, and never when he was smoking. The smoke lingered, as did the smell. There was also the time he set fire to the flat. Luckily it was caught when it was just him room that was b*ggered.

What you are talking about is people being tw*ts and blaming it on alcohol, or using it as an excuse.

[phil24_7]

Unfortunately alcohol changes the way people behave quite drastically the more they drink, smoke doesn't. The bloke you describe sounds like a c**t and I reckon he'd be even more of one when drunk, this is a personality problem!

[yorkie_chris]

Unfortunately alcohol changes the way people behave quite drastically the more they drink, smoke doesn't. The bloke you describe sounds like a c**t and I reckon he'd be even more of one when drunk, this is a personality problem!

I reckon if you're a c*ck sober you'll be a c*ck drunk as well. I don't think it makes any changes, just brings it to the surface.

[ClunkintheUK]

He was quite quickly referred to as the tw*tmate. He was annoying sober or drunk. But from my experience most people who start fights when drunk would probably start them sober. The don't when they are sober because they'd loose their job, or there is no one to fight. At Uni severe drunkeness was a problem on Fridays and Saturdays. A&E was packed on saturday's (I was in there once for a broken collar bone from a crash, only sober customer there). pretty quiet on a friday night (broken wrist from a crash). Friday night was Gown, Saturday night Town. Frankly I think a lot of the townies would have had a fight sober, but were more than happy to blame the booze.

[Pedrosa]

Moderate and controlled drinker here.I consume just up to the point where I am ready to take on anyone and his mate.

[yorkie_chris]

He was quite quickly referred to as the tw*tmate. He was annoying sober or drunk. But from my experience most people who start fights when drunk would probably start them sober. The don't when they are sober because they'd loose their job, or there is no one to fight.

Or they're just cowards.

[ClunkintheUK]

Quite possibly.

[dizzyblonde]

It's amazing how some drunks think their behaviour is perfectly acceptable, and all those around them should put up with it as its their fault, not the drunks.

Social drinking is great, its when it turns anti social with a lack of self control that bothers me.

[Spank86]

It's amazing how some drunks think their behaviour is perfectly acceptable, and all those around them should put up with it as its their fault, not the drunks. .
Bit like some smokers then... Bit like some of any activity really.

I tend to think it depends where you are and how many of you there are. In a family pub in the day I beleive you should defer to those who dont wish to get smashed but if you're out on a friday night in a town pub and lots of people are drunk then I feel the sober people have to put up with it.

Interestingly, people who drink moderately tend to live longer than those who are Tee-total.

[Messie]

Bit like some smokers then... Bit like some of any activity really.

I tend to think it depends where you are and how many of you there are. In a family pub in the day I beleive you should defer to those who dont wish to get smashed but if you're out on a friday night in a town pub and lots of people are drunk then I feel the sober people have to put up with it.

Interestingly, people who drink moderately tend to live longer than those who are Tee-total.

With reference to the bit in bold - do you have a reference to validated research for this?

[Spank86]

Well as the research is well over a year old I'll have to dig up the original reference but its quite well known so I'm sure it won't take me too long.

[Messie]

Lol! Over a year old? I can dig up references to research from over this century and quite a lot of the last one too

;)

[Spank86]

Can't find the original study free to view, as usual with these things the only copy's seem to be behind paywalls but there's numerous references to it:

http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/stories/study-abstaining-from-alcohol-significantly-shortens-life

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200,00.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/six-alcoholic-drinks-a-week-can-mean-longer-life-celia-hall-on-a-danish-study-which-reinforces-the-view-that-moderation-is-better-than-total-abstinence-1403018.html

[Spank86]

Lol! Over a year old? I can dig up references to research from over this century and quite a lot of the last one too

;)

What I meant was whilst I have an excellent memory for trivia, that rarely extends to exactly where I herd the reference. I am however capable of googling: "study on life expectancy for drinkers"

[Messie]

"PEOPLE who have one to six alcoholic drinks a week are likely to live much longer than total abstainers or heavy drinkers who take 70 drinks a week or more. "

is one of the main headlines from your reference to The Independent.

However, if you delve a little more deeply, they refer to the observation that many people who are dying and then die of a variety of alcohol related conditions refer to themselves as 'teetotal' or abstainers'. These, they suggest, are typically the ones who have been serious drinkers for the majority of their adult lives (70+ units per week) but who have, at the point of questionning, become non-drinkers.

On a similarly anecdotal level, who can think of any number of centenarians who refer their longevity to a tipple or two?

[Spank86]

If you read the other articles you'll find they actually compensated for that in the study and excluded former heavy drinkers from absteiners.

As it happens I don't know a single centenarian who is t-total.

I also don't know any octogenarians who are (which is probably a bit more relevant as I hardly know any centenarians).

. But even after controlling for nearly all imaginable variables — socioeconomic status, level of physical activity, number of close friends, quality of social support and so on — the researchers (a six-member team led by psychologist Charles Holahan of the University of Texas at Austin) found that over a 20-year period, mortality rates were highest for those who were not current drinkers, regardless of whether they used to be alcoholics, second highest for heavy drinkers and lowest for moderate drinkers.

[Messie]

Oh and this bit...

Professor Thorkild Sorensen, of the Copenhagen Institute of Preventive Medicine, and his colleagues can show that low but regular drinking - one to six drinks a week - is the magic quantity for longer life.

"Their findings suggest that low to moderate drinking throughout adult years has little effect on lifespan, while not drinking at all may mean that you die sooner than might be expected."

[Spank86]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20735372

If you wish.

Oh and this bit...

Professor Thorkild Sorensen, of the Copenhagen Institute of Preventive Medicine, and his colleagues can show that low but regular drinking - one to six drinks a week - is the magic quantity for longer life.

"Their findings suggest that low to moderate drinking throughout adult years has little effect on lifespan, while not drinking at all may mean that you die sooner than might be expected."

Which is odd phrasing you must agree?

If moderate drinking has no effect but not drinking makes you die sooner then what is their baseline?

But still (to paraphrase myself) as I said, moderate drinkers live longer according to the studies I've seen.

[Messie]

Excellent

A*

:)

[chris8886]

Excellent

A*

:)

oi, stop being all teacherish! lol :p;)

[Spank86]

I'm used to it. Half my family are either teachers or ex-teachers.