View Full Version : Bike security advice/almax yay or nay?
It's very frustrating having to park on a road but living in London, no garage, no driveway, no choice... last night I got very hot under the collar after a friend leaving mine happened to see a thug pick up my chain and look at it... normally I'm only using a mammoth chain attached to a lamp post. I ran downstairs, put the cover on and put on both of my bicycle D locks through the wheel and chain. Not much else I can do. I hope it's still there when I go out this morning....
What can you do if you have to park on a road? I'm pretty broke but contemplating investing in an almax chain. Better £150 output now than lose £3k worth of bike :'( what do you guys think? Might lower my insurance slightly so small offset...
I mean, there's a good reason why I bought an SV; people are not supposed to want to steal it so I just need a good deterrent for the opportunist thug so that when he looks at it, will walk off cos it looks like a bit too much effort. Surely no one is going to turn up with a van are they? Damn if they did, I'd laugh so hard I'd applaud them! LOL :D
Then there's the issue of parking away from home. You don't always get a lamp post... at uni there's nothing. Gotta get disc locks too I guess....
Tigerrrr.......
17-02-13, 10:11 AM
Hi.
You're right to be thinking about the worst case scenario, because one day it will happen.
You're also right to be putting as many obstacles in a thief's way as possible, however small. The longer it would potentially take them to steal your bike, the better the chance they'll go elsewhere.
Now, the Almax chain. In my opinion, it's a no brainer. The Almax is the only chain on the market you can't bolt crop by hand. I saw Alex and Maxine at a bike show a few years ago with every chain on the market in front of them. They were inviting people to select what they thought was the toughest chain, then were bolt cropping them all in seconds with 36" bolt cropper. Oxford Products were on the opposite stand and were none too impressed to say the least!
It's Almax all the way for me. Very heavy - not recommended you carry it on your bike. The Squire padlock (SC65?) is also the top of the range.
If you value your pride and joy, spend the cash and get an Almax series 3 or 4 (depending on cash). Your bike will love you for it!
Best wishes.
Pricey12
17-02-13, 11:24 AM
I've invested in an disc lock alarm for when I'm out an about. I would definitely get the best chain you can afford for when your at home though. Also, may be worth considering an alarm for the bike. Sure, people tend to ignore them, but the noise may just be enough to put the opportunist thief off.
Thanks guys.
Is there much difference between the almax 16 and 19mm?
Also I was wondering: you declare your security on insurance form. But if you are parked say at work you're obviously not using the chain you declared. If your bike gets stolen at work is your insurance invalid because you weren't using that particular security device?
How much is an alarmed disc lock?
Pricey12
17-02-13, 02:42 PM
How much is an alarmed disc lock?
Got mine on ebay for around £20. I don't have the link handy as on mobile but if you do a search for JDC disclock you should find it.
Yep, found it. £20 that's cheap!
Pricey12
17-02-13, 02:50 PM
It seems pretty good in the flesh. Not as solid as say an Oxford Patriot but makes a hell of a racket!
I've just spoken to someone and they said the lock that comes with the chain can be picked in seconds... erm... what's the point of an amazing chain if the lock is no good?
Tigerrrr.......
17-02-13, 04:15 PM
You're right.
Don't buy any lock with a cylinder type key as they can be opened in seconds with a pen.
Plenty examples on You Tube.
Stick to a flat key.
What about the squire one the chain comes with?
SvNewbie
17-02-13, 04:36 PM
Thanks guys.
Also I was wondering: you declare your security on insurance form. But if you are parked say at work you're obviously not using the chain you declared. If your bike gets stolen at work is your insurance invalid because you weren't using that particular security device?
If they can prove that you were not using it then I would suspect you would not find them very accommodating in giving you any money back. This is the same for a house, for example if you declare that you house is alarmed and then don't use it you'll find the insurance don't want to pay out. Some people have been given problems just because they didn't have the correct door locked, for example where there is a porch or another type of entranceway, the insurance company can define the outside door to be whatever one they fancy.
I'm in the same situation, got a new SV650s, just waiting on the cheque to clear and for me to bite the bullet with the insurance! I do have a small garden (typical London style) out the front of my house and have spent this weekend cutting back bushes to make room for the bike. Probably going to spend the money for an Almax which can be secured to an old metal fence where the bike is kept. I have a disc lock for the front which will be kept with under the seat so I can take it and use it when I stop for a bite eat or a coffee, and can tell the insurance I'm using.
Really, my opinion is that if someone wants the bike they can steal it, whether that means taking a grinder to the chain or removing one of the wheels and/or chain. You're only hope is to make it more of a hassle than its worth, and to have insurance in case that still doesn't put them off.
Surely you won't carry your chain around with you everywhere are you? Is the insurance man expecting you to?
P.S your SV looks lovely. I'd love to have that sticker on the front of mine :)
One of my friends is adamant the lock on the almax chain can be picked in seconds. I cannot understand... why would they market an unbreakable chain if you can pick the lock instead???
SvNewbie
17-02-13, 05:14 PM
Thanks mate, can't wait to pick it up!
I'd definitely have a check with the insurance before hand, it may be they can insure it using extra protection within 2 miles or your house, or something along those lines. I guess they can't expect you to take your ground anchor with you!
Had a bit of a Google on picking that lock, mixed reports so I would not like to say one way or another. However, very few common criminals bother to learn any kind of skill (or the little scroats might even have a job!) so I'd think the chances of someone attempting to pick the lock with anything smaller than 42" bolt cutters to be quite small. Even on the places were picking it was mentioned to be quite easy they said once any lock is left exposed to the elements it gets much harder. Short of welding the bike to the lamp-post I think that is as good as you can do!
when i took out my ins, the guy asked if i had and locks etc. I said almax chain and squire lock, and he said are you carrying it all the time? I said no and he told me not to declare it as if it gets stolen and its not on there, my insurance will be invalid. Now I only decalre my alarm as thats all I use when i am out. Chain is for the garage. May be different for other insurers, but thats what Bikesure said.
Tigerrrr.......
17-02-13, 08:54 PM
The Squire lock has a flat key.
I'd suggest that their top of the range padlock will only be picked by someone who really knows what they're doing, not your passing opportunist.
In my opinion, there's nothing better on the market.
phil24_7
18-02-13, 12:15 AM
If they can prove that you were not using it then I would suspect you would not find them very accommodating in giving you any money back. This is the same for a house, for example if you declare that you house is alarmed and then don't use it you'll find the insurance don't want to pay out. Some people have been given problems just because they didn't have the correct door locked, for example where there is a porch or another type of entranceway, the insurance company can define the outside door to be whatever one they fancy.
I'm in the same situation, got a new SV650s, just waiting on the cheque to clear and for me to bite the bullet with the insurance! I do have a small garden (typical London style) out the front of my house and have spent this weekend cutting back bushes to make room for the bike. Probably going to spend the money for an Almax which can be secured to an old metal fence where the bike is kept. I have a disc lock for the front which will be kept with under the seat so I can take it and use it when I stop for a bite eat or a coffee, and can tell the insurance I'm using.
Really, my opinion is that if someone wants the bike they can steal it, whether that means taking a grinder to the chain or removing one of the wheels and/or chain. You're only hope is to make it more of a hassle than its worth, and to have insurance in case that still doesn't put them off.
You thought about a bike safe? It'd be about the safest way to store your bike outside your house. Metal, secure, can't see what's in it and you can still chain and disc lock the hell out of it once it's inside!
Thanks mate, can't wait to pick it up!
Short of welding the bike to the lamp-post I think that is as good as you can do!
Hahahahaha!
Should I, should I not buy one.... it's a lot of money I don't have :/
Arrrgghh I just don't know what to do anymore... another mates says a £20 disk lock is useless
phil24_7
18-02-13, 08:18 AM
There's only 1 disc lock that any good but i can't remember what its called. They're easy to smashing off though if you don't care about damaging the disc, plus they don't stop the bike being lifted!
Arrrgghh I just don't know what to do anymore... another mates says a £20 disk lock is useless
There are some rather disturbing videos on you tube of opening locks with barrel keys using a biro pen. So if a £20 lock is fitted with one of these then yes, useless.
An alarm disk lock at least is going to make a load of noise whilst they have a go at it.
I would choose the chain I think.
Pete
I just don't get it.... what's the point of all this security equipment if every single one can be smashed in no time. why does anybody bother buying them?
You don't need to make your bike theft proof it just needs to be harder to nick than the one next to it. Any thing is better than nothing, best is better than OK and OK is better than rubbish but it's all better than nothing. At the end of the day if someone really wants your bike, they'll have your bike you just need to make it as awkward as possible so they nick someone else's instead.
You're trying to deter the "couple of yoofs and a tranny van" from picking it up into the van and driving away. Ride Magazine did an article about 6 years ago were they parked a fireblade (I think) in a town centre high street during the day time. 30 minutes later they drove up, 4 lads picked up the bike with the alarm going, carried it into the van and drove off. Lots of people about but no one blinked an eye lid.
I don't think you will stop a determined theft who is going tooled up and who has seen your bike previously. However, the opportunist pikey yoof with a large screwdriver for the ignition, well you will slow him down and stop him pushing the bike away somewhere quiet to do the locks, even deter him so he goes off in search of something easier. Hence the suggestion of alarms for noise and a chain to physically secure it to something immoveable. Sure you can cut chain but how many yoofs are going about with a 42" set of bolt cutters at £200 a set. A large screwdriver is a different matter.
Hmmm ok. Maybe it's not worth buying a £150 chain then.... perhaps I'll just get a decent disk lock since other than at night at home, the chain will not be used anyway
yorkie_chris
18-02-13, 11:33 AM
There's no reason you can't negotiate with your insurers to say the chain will be in use at home but not when out and about. If you go down this route getting it in writing would be a good idea.
An almax and alarmed disclock combo would be hard to beat.
My opinion is not many theives would try to pick locks.
timwilky
18-02-13, 11:46 AM
From what I have read, the Squire lock supplied with the Almax chain was upgraded some time ago to prevent picking. Although I suspect there is no such thing as an unpickable lock, it just takes the right skill, right tools and sufficient time.
yorkie_chris
18-02-13, 11:51 AM
I was playing about with a locksmith friend of mine the other evening, a standard cheap pin cylinder took me about 5 minutes with no prior experience. A rather more expensive one with several anti-pick features took an hour, but I got it. He can annoyingly do those in minutes.
You don't need to make your bike theft proof it just needs to be harder to nick than the one next to it. Any thing is better than nothing, best is better than OK and OK is better than rubbish but it's all better than nothing. At the end of the day if someone really wants your bike, they'll have your bike you just need to make it as awkward as possible so they nick someone else's instead.
This is the best way to look at it.
I know of one couple who had an Almax chain around a tree by their house. Got back one day to find the chain gone. They are not impervious to attack. There was no bike theft, so I don't know if the chain was removed by the council, or by someone for resale (there would be some irony in that I guess).
Anything that stops the bike being picked up and put in a van is worth more than something that doesn't. A tatty bike cover can actually have some value as it looks like there's a tatty bike under it, but nothing at all will stop someone nicking your bike if they're determined.
Jambo
SvNewbie
18-02-13, 12:36 PM
Where in London are you agy? I've been gifted a fairly large chain from a workmate, which I will probably use for the first month or so but an Almax is still on my shopping list. When I get that I may be able to do a little re-gifting.
yorkie_chris
18-02-13, 12:37 PM
Anything that stops the bike being picked up and put in a van is worth more than something that doesn't. A tatty bike cover can actually have some value as it looks like there's a tatty bike under it, but nothing at all will stop someone nicking your bike if they're determined.
Jambo
A furry crocodile or a 12 bore is fairly effective.
Oh wow that would be awesome! I'm in Battersea :)
SvNewbie
18-02-13, 01:25 PM
Not too far from me, I'm out in Chiswick. When I get the Almax I'll double check with the owner and let you know.
A furry crocodile or a 12 bore is fairly effective.
Tried this once, dog buried the 12 bore, so now I can't dig in the garden for fear of setting it off.
That's my story as to why my garden's a state and I'm sticking to it. ;)
Jambo
Oh wow that would be awesome! I'm in Battersea :)
Not gone through the whole thread but what you mentioned in the beginning is probably the best cheap secutity device - motorbike cover. Have a look at a ride on cover with eyelets, allowing you to combine the chain with the cover (best chained to a fixed point or ground anchor). The benefit of this is both phsycological and physical. What they can't see will not attract most casual opportunists. And should you be so unfortunate to be targetted, the only way a serious theif can steal the bike is to break the chain, open the cover (some of which you can also lock) and break the steering lock. All of which will be considerbly longer than just doing 1 or 2 out of three.
The only down side is the hassle of using it every night and its more bulky than a normal cover because of the extra material so not great for taking with you.
Not too far from me, I'm out in Chiswick. When I get the Almax I'll double check with the owner and let you know.
Lovely thanks!!!
Not gone through the whole thread but what you mentioned in the beginning is probably the best cheap secutity device - motorbike cover. Have a look at a ride on cover with eyelets, allowing you to combine the chain with the cover (best chained to a fixed point or ground anchor). The benefit of this is both phsycological and physical. What they can't see will not attract most casual opportunists. And should you be so unfortunate to be targetted, the only way a serious theif can steal the bike is to break the chain, open the cover (some of which you can also lock) and break the steering lock. All of which will be considerbly longer than just doing 1 or 2 out of three.
The only down side is the hassle of using it every night and its more bulky than a normal cover because of the extra material so not great for taking with you.
Phew.... you know when you leave the house before 6am and come back in the evening, you're exhausted and the last thing you want to be doing is faffing about with all that esp as my bike is not directly outside my door so I have to walk back and forth to bring stuff/take stuff back. I know this shouldn't be an excuse but I got a pretty cheap bike so that apart from love it can bring me convenience too :)
One day when I have money, my own drive and a fancy bike I can get all the wonderful security
This is the best way to look at it.
Anything that stops the bike being picked up and put in a van is worth more than something that doesn't. A tatty bike cover can actually have some value as it looks like there's a tatty bike under it, but nothing at all will stop someone nicking your bike if they're determined.
Jambo
Would anyone be that determined to take an SV??? Surely not :/
yorkie_chris
19-02-13, 07:48 AM
Yes. They're worth a fair bit to part out.
Every person I spoke to said no one steals SVs LOL
yorkie_chris
19-02-13, 08:42 AM
Chinese 125s get stolen and they're about as desirable as a fart in a lift!
The problem is they're a big bike, which has enough power that it would attract some nugget for a joyride.
They are a lot less twocked than a GSXR or a ducati, and very unlikely to be nicked to order, but they still do get nicked occasionally.
Just add enough security to make whatever is parked around the corner seem more attractive.
A disc lock alarm and an almax is pretty much certain to work.
Gotta give a shout out for the Almax!
I actually have 2 Almax chains as I wasnt allowed to put a ground anchor in the car park of my flats and the only lampost is about 2ft from the tarmac! So a 1.5m and 1m chain reach and only need one squire padlock so I can keep the other as spare (or maybe sell it as they cost 70quid new!...).
I live in a pretty rough part of Glasgow. My bike and also my brothers much newer more expensive bike which is locked to mine havent been touched, maybe just lucky though. They are pricey though, I was lucky enough to buy both from forum members for very good prices...
Like other have said the hope is to deter. Havent ever really thought of the lock picking but I got the Almax as they are uncroppable. I assumed this will mean thieves need to use power tools and make noise to steal the bikes which would wake me up!...
Anyone has any idea which disc locks may yield best discounts on the insurance forms? I know these things don't make much difference but every little helps. I park my bike all over London so carrying a chain is not an option.
yorkie_chris
21-02-13, 08:29 AM
Carrying a chain could be an option, tailpack or topbox is easy enough.
I don't think any will make any difference worth having. However to try go down that route look for a "thatcham approved" one.
Most places don't have anywhere to attach the chain to
yorkie_chris
21-02-13, 08:49 AM
I used to carry one and just stick it through the back wheel... or if you did get lucky and find a lamppost then use it.
If I get a box it might be an option but at the mo I cannot even stick a pin in my rucksack let alone a chain. My daily rucksack already weighs in excess of 10 kg :/ (I weighed it lol)
yorkie_chris
21-02-13, 09:18 AM
Not to try and derail the thread but I do not really like carrying heavy backpacks due to the risk of injury in an off.
I'd stow half a dozen bungees under the seat and put the backpack on the bike. Takes seconds when you get used to it.
Chain on the seat, another couple of bungees... backpack over the top perhaps?
Won't fit under a cargo net. trust me. I have A LOT of stuff I need to carry daily. Actually I think I'd have a cushy landing should anything happen :) anyhow, I know I have a load on my back and I ride accordingly. Although one time I had to take home a new knife LOL
yorkie_chris
21-02-13, 09:41 AM
Won't fit under a cargo net. trust me. I have A LOT of stuff I need to carry daily.
Cargo nets are sh*te TBH.
Use decent bungee cords.
I think our idea of a lot of stuff is a little different, recently went up to Scotland... I had a PLCE bergen completely stuffed to the gun'ls on the back seat... a holdall with all dive kit except cylinders on one side of this and another with my drysuit in it on the other side.
Have carried more than that too!
4 or 5 bungees can hold a bergen easily so long as it's nothing too heavy in there, for example a sleeping bag, change of clothes and a few tools. The same bergen but with 2x 24 packs of lager in the bottom on the other hand needed a ratchet strap to secure it.
Bergens are great, BTW, like a tailpack but with a decent 100l of storage, for about £20 :)
Yeah but then there's faffing about with it all and I just don't have the time. The last thing I want to be doing each morning at 6am is messing around with bungees and it would just stress me out it might fall off. Much easier on my back. I want to get a top box to spread the load but I can't afford one
Can you not use a tail pack .
use one for my trip to training .
2 big locks (Abus Quick )and 2 chains.
I have a tail pack too but I cycle too so I don't have time to constantly move all the contents of my rucksack into the bag and vice versa. Not that much fits in the tailpack anyhow
I use an oxford tank / tail pack it velcros on and off and can be used as a ruck sack too.
I need my sporty rucksack for when I'm cycling. The bike one doesn't have the relevant compartments etc plus it's a lot smaller. I just need a top box
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