Log Burners!

[Tom_the_great]

Hello OMO,

Just looking for some advice really.

I currently have 2 fire places(dining room and living room)

both were open fires at one point one now has an enclosed fire place (real 60's) with an electric fire mounted.

the other is still an open fire hole in the wall.

i wish to put 2 log burners in? both have there own chimny.

Does anyone have any first had expirence fitting or of a fitter i can have a hassel free chat with.

Tom.

[punyXpress]

We had a Stockton 7 Inset stove and it was worse than useless!
We would have been slaves to it so had the fireplace opened out and a proper stove fitted.
All is now toasty :D

[yorkie_chris]

Get a decent stove like a dunsley yorkshire or something, yes they are a lot more money but the cheap stoves are not worth scrap. They are so unsealed they burn like a jet engine and all your fuel ends up keeping the crows feet warm, honestly the propane tank stoves I've made for my mates workshops burn better!

[missyburd]

I would have thought two log burners a little excessive? How big are the rooms?

[Owenski]

I would have thought two log burners a little excessive? How big are the rooms?

Doubt he'd run both at the same time, I think he's just looking for the option to run either depending on which room they're going to be in as its a twin downstairs, fairly equal size rooms either could be living or dining depending on choice. Both chimneys combine in the party wall (semi-detached) so having either on downstairs would heat the upstairs bedrooms no need to run both simultaneously.

I know Rob (Garage) had one installed, he had it done by folk he knew IIRC I do know it burnt very little but heated for AAAAAGGGEEEESSSS, may be worth an ask.

[missyburd]

Log burners themselves don't come cheap that's all but yeah, would be nice to have the option of using one or t'other.

[Tom_the_great]

cheers for all the info so far guys, keep it comming.

As matt said its so that we can use either or and the possability of running rads and hot water.

im not sure weather they both go into the same chimny stack as we have two one front and one back also two chimny tunnels.

its all to look at need to find someone i can trust not to rip me off!

[punyXpress]

You'll need a lot bigger ( + more expensive ) setup for hot water etc.
When we started our project, we bought a stove with boiler & because the rules changed could not get anyone to 'sign it off' under Building Regs.
How big an opening for a burner do you have, and by how much will it need extending?
What structural changes will need to be done ( chimneys are fff heavy ) ?
Combined flues often give ' strange ' effects on the draught needed for good fire control.
Don't want to pi$$ on your project, but there's quite a bit to think about.

[Tom_the_great]

im trying to upload some photos. the gap is mostly bigger in the living room then it is in the dining. this would also be used more.

i am aware of certain costs but i can see them just getting bigger( expected tbh)

[Tom_the_great]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Tom_The_great/20121113_172656.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Tom_The_great/20121113_172406.jpg

[Tom_the_great]

the first is photo is the living room at present. this still has all the old open fire gubbings in situ, but the hole is filled with a simple electric one.

the second photo is the dining room which ive never seen the back of. only know it was once an open fire.

[BBadger]

ive got 1 open fire place and one burner.

the burner is a "Morsø Standard Squirrel Wood Burner" (http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/brands/brands-g-to-z/morso-stoves.html?gclid=COmD4b7fn7YCFc3HtAod_zgARw) not sure which model we've got but various sizes are about.
Had a plate made up for the chimney so that it can slide out when cleaning needs to be done ( most come with a set i think to make life easy), then a machine mart set of brushes and alot of plastic sheets saves £50 to have the chimney done by someone else.

We have the thing burning 24/7 when the weathers cold and normally put smokeless coal on it and a pile lasts a few hours depending on how roaring you want your fire, works an absolute treat and the room is always warm to the point i sit in t-shirt and shorts most nights.

it will even boil a kettle which is abit of amusement every now and again too.

as many have stated startup costs can be abit pricey but after a year or so youll wonder why you didnt do it sooner.

[Dipper]

You'll find if you remove the fire surround there's usually a much bigger opening behind that's partially bricked up.

[suzukigt380paul]

your beast results with a wood burner are when it sits out in the room a bit,and you will almost certainly need a linner for best results,and linners are not cheap,and as a main heat sauce you will nead a cheap source of wood,otherwise the extra work involved in getting it may outway any benefits compared to oil or gas,go to a wood burner shop and ask for advice as they will tell you all the ins and outs with any set up

[Luckypants]

the possability of running rads and hot water.

You need to decide right at the outset if you want to do this. Then look at proper boiler stoves, not ones where they 'can insert a boiler kit' or 'fit a water jacket' - retro fit boiler kits are not very efficient and can make a mess of a tidy installation. Your flue may not be up to the job of a boiler stove due to the extra amounts of fuel needed to be burned to heat the water, so check that. You also need to check how much heat goes to the water system and how much to the room when looking at boiler stoves, often a boiler stove that can heat enough hot water puts too much heat into the room and makes it unbearably hot - something the set up here suffers from. Similarly, don't over spec. the output of the boiler / stove 'just in case' because the stove will never work well if it is hardly working to meet the load and the room will be too hot. Under specify slightly and work it harder to get the best results. finally, if going for a boiler stove, get multi-fuel as the heat required for water uses logs at a rate of knots but coal will burn for a few hours without the need to re-fuel; for instance heating my house we need to put on logs every hour or so but a load of coal will heat the house for 5-7 hours.

Would the boiler stove be your only way of heating the water / radiators?

[suzukigt380paul]

wood burners shouldnt be run with coal or coal wood mix,multi fuel stoves can be run on either and are completly different inside with a grate and ashpan

[Tom_the_great]

Cheers LP,

Abit more background, the house is 1935 built it has no gas at all (would not be massive job as the mains gas is about 2 meters from the house front wall).

I want an open fire/Log burner always have.

currently we only have electric, hot water comes from an emersion heater(on switch takes about 1hor before any hot water). heat is from storage heaters in 2 rooms but very costly and not very efficent there very old so we only use 1 for clothes.

[454697819]

ok

Things to consider

1.) its fecking expensive to install & run unless you have a free supply of wood.

2.) You wont need massive stoves but good ones with air wash dont come cheap, smaller ones tend not to have back boilers and as such not suitable for hot water.

3.) Building regs, these days if you want to be legit they have to be installed under a building notice

4.) flue - Its about £100 a meter plus fitting plus accessories dependant on the system they use

Twin wall is the best but the most expensive but you dont need a secondary layer of insulation

904 grade S/S is suitable for coals and wood - This is what I installed but you need an insulation around the flue

316 is ok for wood only -again you need the flue insulation

5.) my dads a plumber and reckons £2.5k per install as you need scaffold these days or cherry picker etc etc.

6.) I DIY installed mine and it was a horrible job, messy, crappy and long but it cost me a grand and was done in a day with my dad helping me and my brother. I have since helped one other friend do it and have promised never to do any more it was awful.

I don't want to put you off at all but consider all options.

My stove is a Stockton 4 Multifuel and is excellent, burns very efficiently and is abut 4kw we have been known to over heat the room and have the back door open in the snow. - the stove alone was £500 and we got all our flue bits from here

http://specflue.com/

any way, wish you all the best with it and if you need any more advice drop me a pm and Ill do my best to help you!

[punyXpress]

With boiler, you'll need a HETAS fitter. Our local one was popular with other plumbers 'cos he left so many leaks they got stacks of work!

[otaylor38]

I used to work for a stove shop up until 3 weeks ago.

They used to do a thing called a site survey. Where an engineer would come out and asses the job, your requirements and do you aquote for £40 + vat. If you chose to go ahead, it was deducted from the price of the overall job.

Looking at those rooms, id probably say a 5kw will be plenty. Its better to run a smaller one on high than a big one on low, to prevent condensation. Also, on snything bigger thsn a 7kw youll need an airbrick, which is basically a step back.

Id say youd need a flue liner as this is the only way you can prove the integrity of the chimney. If its a newer house, you may have a clay liner, but its not possible to see every bit of the inside to see if its safe or not.

The place i worked for didnt sell cheap rubbish. Stovax + dovre were amongst the best sellers. You do pay abit more, but they'll last alot longer.

in the second room it looks like you could have an inset, or knock it out and have a normal one. Its down to personal preference really.

Youll need a hearth infront of each one to. We used to make these at 12" infront of the glass of the stove. Its part of the regs, basically so a log cant roll out and set fire to a carpet thst could come potentially come right up to the stove.

[otaylor38]

Alot of people think they want a boiler in a stove because they think theyre saving money. But when faced with the installation cost, the cost of a neutraliser etc etc its not cheap, and a big job.

Its also not free heat as many think. Stoves are ratio'd between heat to the room and to the boiler side. 60% room 30% boiler or similar. The heat to use the boiler side is actually coming out of what would be in the room on a standard stove.

I think youll go off that idea when you see the costs and disruption to your entire house. Many do.

Hope this helps