Fixed Penalty Notice - Appeal or Not?

[WeegieBlue]

Hey folks

Just wondering if I could get your thoughts on an FPN I was issued last night.

I got on my bike on George St in Edinburgh last night at around 7:45pm and set off from there along the M8 towards Glasgow. A police 4x4 joined the M8 just before Harthill, about 10 cars length ahead of me (the lane was empty though). I was travelling at roughly 70mph - I commute 100 miles a day and stick to the speed limit for fuel economy and also can't afford to lose my license if I get done for speeding.

Anyway, the 4x4 starts to slow down - not braking, just not accelerating. As the gap between us closes I indicate and overtake, still within the speed limit. The 4x4 sits behind me for a mile or so before overtaking me at maybe 75mph, so very slowly relative to my speed. It pulls in front of me and slowly pulls away.

As I pass the entry to Harthill services the 4x4 once again stops accelerating so I once again overtake at 70mph and pull in front, just after the services exit. Then the lights and sirens come and and I pull over onto the hard shoulder.

Helmet and gloves off, engine off, and the police officer comes over. He tells me he has stopped me as I have no number plate. I get off and he is right - where my plate was when I got on the bike on Edinburgh, there is now no plate. There is a rough looking hole in my undertray which shows that at some point the plastic has failed and I've lost my plate.

I get taken into the back of the car and I am issued with a £60 fine for failing to display a number plate. I explained the plate was there as I got onto the bike, and the hole in my undertray shows something has broken off, and the policeman says he doesn't doubt my story however it is my responsibility to make sure I have a plate. I asked how I was supposed to check this at 70mph on the motorway in the dark and he gave me my ticket and told me to be on my way.

I have not left anything out here nor have I embellished anything. No reason for me to, and I need to be honest in order to get your honest opinions.

So, my question is should I appeal the ticket? I know by the letter of the law what is written is true, however I would never have been able to know my plate was missing until I got home, or until someone had told me. I feel the ticket is very very harsh and am loathe to pay it as there was no intent by me to break the law. I had 2 opportunities to leave the motorway if I wanted to, and if I had know my plate had gone, why would I overtake the 4x4 twice?

Long story I know, but any advice would be warmly received!

Thanks in advance

WB

[fizzwheel]

On what grounds would you appeal ?

When he stopped you there was no number plate on your bike. You cant argue with them on that one. I take your point about not being able to check. Personally I think you are wasting your time trying to get out of this one.

Is it just £60 fine or is it points as well. If its just the fine, I'd pay up and take it on the chin TBH.

[Bibio]

hhhmmm the services must have been out of doughnuts.

anyway he could have given you a 7day to get fixed.

[EssexDave]

I have no experience in these appeals but I would expect it to go like this.

Representative for police says here is the photo from the police vehicle showing vehicle with no number plate.

Appeal over.

Law is an ass.

If you have nothing to lose then maybe worth a shout.

[WeegieBlue]

On what grounds would you appeal ?

When he stopped you there was no number plate on your bike. You cant argue with them on that one. I take your point about not being able to check. Personally I think you are wasting your time trying to get out of this one.

Is it just £60 fine or is it points as well. If its just the fine, I'd pay up and take it on the chin TBH.

This is the answer I expected. I know you're right and I'll probably just pay it, but I'm annoyed he didn't just tell me to get a plate in the morning, which is exactly what I did. 9:30am I was back on the M8 with my new plate fitted.

[Runako]

As usual, I have a different view. The police have discretion in this situation and so does a magistrate. If you can convince a magistrate that you genuinely had no idea the plate was missing there is every chance the penalty could be waived. The fact that the officer told you to be on your way is indicative of the level of discretion. Had the bike been unsafe they would not have allowed you to continue. My vote is appeal.

[Wildkid]

take it on the chin.. not worth the hassle..

[EssexDave]

What happens if you lose the appeal?

[jambo]

A little harsh perhaps.

You are guilty of the offence with which you have been charged. Discretion was available, but the policeman has issued a fine. I would suggest that appealing to a magistrate is a gamble, with a small fine at stake, adding costs to the top if the magistrate agrees with the policeman will leave you having lost a day with a bigger fine than you started with.

For me it'd feel like the wrong time to roll the dice especially given that magistrates are often less than progressive in their thinking.

Jambo
Sent from my thingie

[WeegieBlue]

I also noticed the officer has spelt my name wrong on the ticket. Has he issued a ticket to someone who doesn't exist?! #clutchingatstraws

[jambo]

Ah,
Now if the ticket itself has inaccuracies on it, you may have a better case.

I'd still personally not lose a day of my life at court over it, but that's just me.

Do you have the option to send it back and argue the inaccuracies with the police directly or is it a case of court or £60?

If you go to court, make sure you're arguing a legal principle, not a personal one, or they'll find for the police and you'll be angry.

Jambo
Sent from my thingie

[Runako]

I get the sense you're not going to challenge it but fwiw:

Usually the details of the ticket need to comply with any associated regulations relating to the offence. What's the offence or code stated on the ticket? If the officer hasn't completed this correctly you could technically appeal this but it depends on the details.

If you request a hearing you can also seek to mitigate - plead guilty but argue it was unavoidable in the circumstances. Ok, there's a risk that if you lose you have to pay the attendance fee and victim surcharge on top of the fine, but the judge has the option to reduce, or even quash the fine if he is convinced that your account is true.

The issuing officer would be called to attend a hearing and may even say that he believed you were unaware of the missing plate. Stranger things have happened in court! Just depends how far you wish to go really.

[Fordward]

runako, jambo, this is in scotland, the magistrates court doesn't exist, it would be dealt with by a justice of the peace

personally for a non endorsable offence with a 60 quid fine id just pay it and hope the copper gets his karma for being a ****

[Bluepete]

Sounds harsh, but despite what most chief cons tell you, cops are still measured on performance. He may have been a bit short for that time period.

As for inaccuracies on the ticket, spelling mistakes won't invalidate it.

The only way to appeal its to fill,in the part requesting a court hearing. If you do that, try to get some CCTV of you leaving the city with a plate in place.

Pete

[chris8886]

Sounds harsh, but despite what most chief cons tell you, cops are still measured on performance. He may have been a bit short for that time period.

As for inaccuracies on the ticket, spelling mistakes won't invalidate it.

The only way to appeal its to fill,in the part requesting a court hearing. If you do that, try to get some CCTV of you leaving the city with a plate in place.

Pete

and our ever friendly traffic cop (i think, if i remember correctly!) proves his worth once again on such a matter...

[rockster]

I say appeal it. I agree with other posters that in all practical terms this will do you no good but the situation as you describe it suggests that you are going to accept a punishment without having done a single thing (intentionally) wrong. I don't want to live in a society where the populace accepts that "because it's easier".

On the other hand - the behaviour of the 4x4 as you describe it suggests that the officer was giving you the chance to pull off - and if you had this would suggest guilt. The fact that you didn't would suggest to him that you weren't intentionally driving without a plate - so he may be inclined to warn you and tell you to get it fixed. However as this isn't the way it played out are you sure you didn't do something that riled him and encouraged him to follow the letter of the law?

[Runako]

runako, jambo, this is in scotland, the magistrates court doesn't exist, it would be dealt with by a justice of the peace.

Ah, different system. In which case, I know nothing. But still appeal ...

[Dicky Ticker]

Bluepete,Unless things have changed drastically do you still do a vehicle check,lights,tyres,glass and such at the beginning of a shift before you take the vehicle out.
Surely if Weegie checked his bike before commencing his journey and the number plate was present,he has some sort of defence. Like he said it is unlikely that he would overtake twice had he known it to be missing and also the damage on the mounting where it had broken and fallen off .
Defence being that at the commencement of the journey all was in order and things do happen,such as a bulb becoming defective during the course of your journey.

Only a thought ,not saying it is the right thing to contend the offence ,just a bit harsh if that was the case.

[Fordward]

i agree with the moral argument behind the appeal, but the offence is failing to display a plate which you are guilty of. you have committed that offence and I'm afraid the law is that black and white.

that's a bit of a **** but it has to be that way otherwise people just wouldn't bother replacing fallen number plates. if the offence was starting your journey without a number plate, everyone who's been without one for months would just claim this when they eventually did get stopped, and the police wouldn't be able to prove otherwise, innocent until proven guilty, so nobody could ever be convicted. there would no incentive for people to replace a fallen plate

you are definitely guilty of the offence, what your asking for with an appeal is some form of concession to the fact it wasn't intentional, and it was there when you left edinburgh. you've already had some concession in the form of a non-endorsable penalty and you haven't been given points

unless as blue pete says you can get some form of evidence that it was there when you left edinburgh, you are wasting your time with an appeal to the JP. i don't say this through apathy 'because it's easier', i say this because i honesty believe it will get you knowhere, except perhaps a bigger fine if the JP is as much of a **** as the copper

given your explanation the copper should have dealt with it by a rectification notice, is true that you'd likely not have overtaken him if you knew about the plate and he should have seen this and used his discretion. the fine is there for people who he suspects have been driving round like that for weeks

i don't care what the coppers performance targets were like at the time, they have a responsibility to act equally with all members of the public, regardless of what time of the month it is. the coppers targets are not your problem and you shouldn't suffer as a result of them

[yorkie_chris]

i don't care what the coppers performance targets were like at the time, they have a responsibility to act equally with all members of the public, regardless of what time of the month it is. the coppers targets are not your problem and you shouldn't suffer as a result of them

Meanwhile, back in the real world...


you are definitely guilty of the offence, what your asking for with an appeal is some form of concession to the fact it wasn't intentional, and it was there when you left edinburgh. you've already had some concession in the form of a non-endorsable penalty and you haven't been given points

AFAIK it's a non-endorsable offence. Ergo, he has had no concession.

Coppers don't have the god given right to dispense points like sweets as they see fit.

[WeegieBlue]

In response to some of your questions:

1. I wans't doing anything untoward (speeding, swerving, burnouts etc) and the officer didn't rasie anything else with me other than the lack of number plate. When I got into the back of the 4x4 the driver already had his big book of tickets out and was writing it up, it was the passenger who had got out and actually looked at the bike
2. I am not, and cannot, deny the fact that I am guilty of the offence of failing to display a number plate. I would not challenge the ticket on the basis that I was actually showing a plate.
3. The only argument I have is that the plate was there when I left Edinburgh, but not when I was stopped. I would basically need to appeal for leniancy from the JP and hopefully show that my actions whilst on the bike (overtaking the 4x4 twice, not leaving the motorway despite having the opportunity to do so) shows that I had no prior knowledge of the lack of plate.

I know it's only £60, but i really do feel that the officer should have used his discretion and asked me to get a new plate fitted ASAP. The fact he let me continue to ride another 30 miles homes without the plate makes me wonder too. I actually asked him what would happen if I got pulled again and he said to show them the FPN and hopefully they'd take pity on me and let me off.

[yorkie_chris]

For the hassle versus the chances of success... personally I would just pay it.

I think the copper was being a c*nt and filling a quota with an easy target but that doesn't really help much!

[WeegieBlue]

For the hassle versus the chances of success... personally I would just pay it.

I think the copper was being a c*nt and filling a quota with an easy target but that doesn't really help much!

This is pretty much where I am with it, but it really does not sit well with me.

[yorkie_chris]

If you do decide to challenge it I'd be very careful in doing my research, you know how much people get punished for taking their day in court over speeding.

[Bluepete]

I think the copper was being a c*nt and filling a quota with an easy target but that doesn't really help much!

And that's where traffic policing is I'm afraid. Micro managed by bosses with no experience of the job who've progressed up the promotion ladder in a system that uses performance as the yard stick.

You get kicked if you don't have enough tickets at the end of he month. So, you give out tickets where a bit of advice would suffice because advice can't be measured.

[Runako]

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

AFAIK it's a non-endorsable offence. Ergo, he has had no concession.

Coppers don't have the god given right to dispense points like sweets as they see fit.

Yes, FPN's are not a concession, just a (cheaper) process. The only reason you would have to pay more at court is for the administrative costs of a hearing. There is no additional penalty for this offence.

Also, the law is not "black and white" in the sense that we have a thing called mitigation. Yes, you can technically commit many offences but the penalty can always be mitigated. But you can't mitigate to a peice of paper (FPN), so they OP will never know if the judge would have been lenient in the circumstances unless he requests a hearing.

Its your righ to request a hearing, its not something you should be punished or penalised for. In reality the only consideration not to request a hearing to mitigate the £60 fine is the potential admin court cost and victim surcharge, along with whatever time you have taken out of your day to attend a hearing.

Mitigation - Look at the Phillpotts case. Technically he should have been convicted of 6 consecutive terms for manslaughter but the sentences were concurrent (although many don't agree). And his partner got a lesser sentence as, in mitigation, her counsel argued she went along with the plan through intimidation from him. Its an extreme example but shows what mitigation is about.

Plus I want to see if you succeed so go for it ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Yes, FPN's are not a concession, just a (cheaper) process. The only reason you would have to pay more at court is for the administrative costs of a hearing. There is no additional penalty for this offence.

Also, the law is not "black and white" in the sense that we have a thing called mitigation. Yes, you can technically commit many offences but the penalty can always be mitigated. But you can't mitigate to a peice of paper (FPN), so they OP will never know if the judge would have been lenient in the circumstances unless he requests a hearing.

Its your righ to request a hearing, its not something you should be punished or penalised for. In reality the only consideration not to request a hearing to mitigate the £60 fine is the potential admin court cost and victim surcharge, along with whatever time you have taken out of your day to attend a hearing.

How many people do you hear of who challenge a 3+£60 and end up with 5+£150 or something... not costs, not victim surcharge BS... that's the fine and points before the costs + surcharge.


So, it is your right to request a hearing and you should not be penalised for it... however... that's what happens.

[Specialone]

Then there is this guy...
http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/

He can get most people off purely through the way the police recorded the offences or didnt cross every 't', for the record i dont like the guy.

Different thing, but i received a unjust parking ticket a few years ago, i protested in writing as i knew it would eat away at me and wind me up so i protested and ive never even heard anything back in 5 years.

[Runako]

How many people do you hear of who challenge a 3+£60 and end up with 5+£150 or something... not costs, not victim surcharge BS... that's the fine and points before the costs + surcharge.


So, it is your right to request a hearing and you should not be penalised for it... however... that's what happens.

In relation to this offence YC. There were no points. In cases of speeding etc, the rules dictate that if you lose your appeal the Judge has the discretion to apply more points/penalty.

Even though its a right, you can't abuse the system by making silly appeals. That's why some penalties were introduced for certain levels of offences.

I challenged a Local Council traffic enforcement parking ticket and requested a hearing. I was successful in appealing because the section of road did not have properly demarcated yellow lines as per the regs. But this wasn't mitigation. I think the OP has a fair chance, and provides evidence if he can as BluePete suggests.

[JamesMio]

http://www.scottishdrivinglaw.co.uk/ <--- Joe's a friend and bl**dy good (Scottish based) traffic laywer.

Be worth a quick call.

[SvNewbie]

Honestly, with no points involved and, in the grand scheme of things, a minor fine I can't imagine a lawyer getting out of bed. Might be different and worth fighting for if you were going to lose your job / licence over it.

[Wideboy]

Different thing, but i received a unjust parking ticket a few years ago, i protested in writing as i knew it would eat away at me and wind me up so i protested and ive never even heard anything back in 5 years.

They're building a case, along with a unnamed bus driving witness ;-)

[Runako]

Honestly, with no points involved and, in the grand scheme of things, a minor fine I can't imagine a lawyer getting out of bed. Might be different and worth fighting for if you were going to lose your job / licence over it.

You don't in fact need a lawyer but it doesn't hurt to get a bit of advice, which is what a think James is suggesting. you may be able to get a free initial consultation and go from there. If a lawyer says "its not worth it" at that stage then its probably not worth it. But it can't hurt to give em a call.

[Specialone]

They're building a case, along with a unnamed bus driving witness ;-)

Lol, I see what you did there :)

[WeegieBlue]

I know we're only talking £60 but I really feel it's the principle of the matter more than anything else. The driver of the 4x4 was already writing out the ticket as I got in the car, so they were always giving me the ticket regardless as to what I had to say about things. They were never taking any other factors into account other than my failure to display, and I guess that is what is really annoying.

If I do go to a hearing and the JP finds against, is it the £60, plus 50%, plus costs?

[Dicky Ticker]

All these facts you are stating can be easily made by yourself to the procurator fiscal by your appearance in court.
I can understand your principals on this if you genuinely knew that the number plate was on the bike at the commencement of your journey and if that is the case you have to decide if you want to take the fine or defend.
if you do decide to defend make sure you lay all the facts before the court in writing before you give evidence in your defence and stick to what you have written.Do not embellish anything, just straight facts.
If you have a clean license this helps as it goes towards proving you are a law abiding person regarding your riding. How recently was the bike serviced and checked, all goes in your favour.
In the end courts are supposed to be impartial and yes the number plate had fallen off and was missing when you got stopped but it is up to you to prove that you were unaware that it was missing. This is the mitigation that may get you off but in the end it is your decision.

[Bluefish]

M'lud, I have already proved I was unaware my VIN plate had dropped off, twice in fact by overtaking the not very nice policeman, how many vehicles do you see on the road without no plates, 1 in a million? so if I knew it wasn't there, I being a reasonable person would hardly drive around overtaking police vehicles would I? Then get in his/her face and say, You can't handle the truth hth

[Runako]

M'lud, I have already proved I was unaware my VIN plate had dropped off, twice in fact by overtaking the not very nice policeman, how many vehicles do you see on the road without no plates, 1 in a million? so if I knew it wasn't there, I being a reasonable person would hardly drive around overtaking police vehicles would I? Then get in his/her face and say, You can't handle the truth hth

Lmfao :D Hire this man!

[otaylor38]

I agree. You obviously didnt know, and why did it take them so long to pull you? If it wasnt on, theyd have noticed this the first time they were behind you, and pulled you then. So it dropped off after that? So how did the expect you to know? In theory anyway.


Personally, id just pay it. You do have a point in what your saying, but at the end of the day, its £60. If it was points, id consider appealing. £60 though, is it worth the effort? Id find it easier to just pay and have done with it tbh.

[ChrisCurvyS]

Agree this cop was completely unreasonable, whether target-driven or not. As well as anything else, if you were riding plateless for nefarious purposes then why would you pull over as soon as instructed, especiallly as you were on a bike and could probably have lost him?

However, worth making the point that not all traffic cops are like this. One (who may have been Bluepete actually asit was Cheshire and he was a biker) gave me only a warning after seeing me accelerate away from a roundbout onto a dual carriageway 'visibly' above the 60mph speed limit. Admittedly he didn't get a reading on me in time as his BMW couldn't keep up but he could have made up a a less black and white charge like dangerous driving if he'd wanted to be an ****. Think me discussing hazards in the sitution helped.

As with any profession, good and bad apples.

[theshed]

Just playing devils advocate here
Before leaving did you check your bike to make sure everything was secure if you lost your plate then obviously not you are also guilty of an insecure plate which when coming off could have caused a major accident
Pay your money and wonder to yourself has some small child obtained a split head from your neglect?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Specialone]

Just playing devils advocate here
Before leaving did you check your bike to make sure everything was secure if you lost your plate then obviously not you are also guilty of an insecure plate which when coming off could have caused a major accident
Pay your money and wonder to yourself has some small child obtained a split head from your neglect?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Eh? You being serious?

I'd be more concerned a small child was out in the open on a mway, in fact, has there ever been a child injured in the head by a fallen number plate ? It's a bit of a freak accident don't you think?

[theshed]

presumable the journey didn't start on the motorway and as it wasnt observed coming off then who's to say where it flew down the road.
and yes I have heard of people being injured by vehicles with insecure loads and the offense of an insecure load can cost you points on your license (ask any HGV driver)
so yes i am being serious.
I have also been behind a car when the driver threw a can out the window causing me to swerve to ovoid it.

[Fordward]

Meanwhile, back in the real world...



AFAIK it's a non-endorsable offence. Ergo, he has had no concession.

Coppers don't have the god given right to dispense points like sweets as they see fit.

I know that coppers cant hand out points at will and I know its a non endorsable offence. That is a 'concession' to the fact that its less serious than an offence which carries an endorsement. Whether or not 'concession' is the right word to use to get my point across Im not anal enough to worry about.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Dicky Ticker]

Sort of loosing the plot--------The offence in this case is not having a number plate with a £60 fixed penalty----pay or appeal?

Enter a Newton plea, that is guilty, at the time you were stopped the number plate was missing. mitigation being that it was attached on the commencement of the journey but due to it being a rear number plate you were unaware it had come off.
A Newton plea if accepted is often a reduced penalty or admonished. You are still pleading guilty so unlikely to have the penalty increased.

[theshed]

As I said in the first instance I was acting as devils advocate
Back in the real world, ignorance is no defense and at the end of the day your being fined for no number plate which you admit to
I wonder are you causing yourself more stress than necessary by contesting any fine
so I say just pay up and move on life is to short to fight battles you have little chance of winning

[Spank86]

Is your days leave to go to court really worth £60?

[Runako]

Glad to know so much of you have money to burn. Will it cost more to take a day off? Probably. But what is life if not a challenge. "Oh yeah, just do the easy thing and pay it". I tell you what you can't pay for. Peace of mind. I would simply do it because I was not knowingly in the wrong. Whether or not the appeal would be successful is down to a judge. But the decision to appeal or not is down to the individual. I would rather burn that £60 than hand it over without an fight.

[jambo]

Glad to know so much of you have money to burn.
Well, if it was me, by the time I'd taken a day off work I'd be down more than £60, so I suspect for many it's a case of the lesser of two evils rather than that we're all lighting cuban cigars with fifty pound notes and loudly asking Boris Johnson to pass the brandy.


I would rather burn that £60 than hand it over without an fight.
Then you'd be down £120 unless the police accept a video of you burning twenties as payment.

Peace out :-)
Jambo
Sent from my thingie

[Spank86]

Glad to know so much of you have money to burn. Will it cost more to take a day off? Probably. But what is life if not a challenge. "Oh yeah, just do the easy thing and pay it". I tell you what you can't pay for. Peace of mind. I would simply do it because I was not knowingly in the wrong. Whether or not the appeal would be successful is down to a judge. But the decision to appeal or not is down to the individual. I would rather burn that £60 than hand it over without an fight.

I'd rather take a days holiday and then work it.

I'd make more than spending it in court and I'd do it because I don't have money to burn.

Principles are expensive.

[Runako]

Well, if it was me, by the time I'd taken a day off work I'd be down more than £60, so I suspect for many it's a case of the lesser of two evils rather than that we're all lighting cuban cigars with fifty pound notes and loudly asking Boris Johnson to pass the brandy.


Then you'd be down £120 unless the police accept a video of you burning twenties as payment.

Peace out :-)
Jambo
Sent from my thingie

You misunderstand me. Money to burn as in being easily at peace with the thought of paying the fine without making any attempt to challenge it.

"Then you'd be down £120 ...". Figure of speech. Think Bill Shankly "football more important than life" and you'll get my sentiment :)

[Spank86]

But still currency arson or no you COULD well be down £120 or more after your day in court.

After all your plea isn't that the offence wasn't committed.

[yorkie_chris]

But still currency arson or no you COULD well be down £120 or more after your day in court.

After all your plea isn't that the offence wasn't committed.

+1 Way I see it.

You want to gamble, fine, you risk costs (minimum), possible increase in fine.* Reward, possible reduction in fine. Fixed cost... lost days wages.


*I dunno what cap is on this... but take example SP30 is a level 3 fine... £1000 sunshine... all that for 35mph. Imagine how much (albeit unlikely) risk there is if your JP's missus had a headache last night eh.

[Bluefish]

In this instance money being no object, then i think most of us would go to court, but there is also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY

[Specialone]

presumable the journey didn't start on the motorway and as it wasnt observed coming off then who's to say where it flew down the road.
and yes I have heard of people being injured by vehicles with insecure loads and the offense of an insecure load can cost you points on your license (ask any HGV driver)
so yes i am being serious.
I have also been behind a car when the driver threw a can out the window causing me to swerve to ovoid it.

As I didn't ask about insecure loads or pop cans and nor did the op have these falling off his bike, I'll ask again..

Have you ever heard, seen, got evidence of anyone getting injured by a number plate falling from a bike?

I doubt the above so it's not playing devils advocate, it's trying to inflame the op's situation, facts are he deserved some discretion due to the plate falling off after he moved off.

[theshed]

If his plate came off it was obviously insecure, and any object flying from a moving vehicle has dangerous implications and he did admit to being guilty of the offence being fined for, we all feel sorry for his misfortune but guilty is guilty so just pay up
And any responsible person should think to themself I hope it never hit anyone
Or wouldn't you care if it hurt someone or someone's property?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Spank86]

The OP said There was a hole in his undertray. Sounds like something hit IT.

More than the plate being insecure.

[DJ123]

It was there when you left, it wasn't when the Police stopped you. For the ease of £60 go for it. It's not 'that' much in the scheme of things.

Just playing devils advocate here
Before leaving did you check your bike to make sure everything was secure if you lost your plate then obviously not you are also guilty of an insecure plate which when coming off could have caused a major accident
Pay your money and wonder to yourself has some small child obtained a split head from your neglect?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Have you been watching too many Final Destination movies where impossible objects kill people? :lol:

[theshed]

From my understanding the hole its from where the retaining screw has failed so yes insecure and as I first stated I have been playing devils advocate the
Point being that on appeal you could be faced with an appeals judge with similar views to the ones I've expressed and in my view it just ain't worth the risk
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Specialone]

With respect mate, you're talking out of your rear end, speculate all you want, big this up to a whole another level if you want but it will always be a minor offence or it would have a bigger penalty.

Post up any evidence where a falling plate has caused damage to a person and I might change my thinking.

[theshed]

Specialone the injured child was just an example of what might have been and I was just giving my opinion on weather to pay the fine or appeal I have said is it worth the risk of coming up against a judge with opinions similar to those I have expressed? (Not necessarily mine) now you have not said yet what would you do pay up our loose a day's work and appeal, what would you do if it was you?

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2

[Spank86]

From my understanding the hole its from where the retaining screw has failed so yes insecure and as I first stated I have been playing devils advocate the
Point being that on appeal you could be faced with an appeals judge with similar views to the ones I've expressed and in my view it just ain't worth the risk
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

That wasn't how it's worded.

"The plastic failed" suggests he's talking about a crack to me not a screw hole where the screws come out.

[Littlepeahead]

As I didn't ask about insecure loads or pop cans and nor did the op have these falling off his bike, I'll ask again..

Have you ever heard, seen, got evidence of anyone getting injured by a number plate falling from a bike?

I doubt the above so it's not playing devils advocate, it's trying to inflame the op's situation, facts are he deserved some discretion due to the plate falling off after he moved off.

Zig nearly came off running over a number plate on a bend that had dropped off a bike or possibly car. He said he narrowly kept the bike upright, but not knowing what had happened he stopped, got off, walked back, found the plate, put it in a resident's bin so no one else did the same and came off.

[fenjer]

I think the point he's trying to make is that a number plate falling off a bike could have done some damage to someone or something, it's unlikely yes, but it could have. And personally that would worry me more than the £60 I had to shell out cos the coppers stopped me.

Personally I'd pay the £60 and be done with it. You presumably do not have any solid proof the number plate was there at the start of the journey, there are lots of less honest people who remove number plates to dodge cameras etc, you may not be one of those people, but how do they know that?

Look on the bright side, at least you're not getting points or worse.

[NTECUK]

Eh? Iin fact, has there ever been a child injured in the head by a fallen number plate ? It's a bit of a freak accident don't you think?
Sounds like a job for Myth Busters!

"Do de e do do ,
When a number plate flies off and strikes your face .who ya gona call".:)

[Pete7]

This stretch of motorway, you regularly ride along it? and the copper, this is his local patch? well if you drag him into court he will certainly remember you. If you pay the £60 it will all be forgotten about in a week and the copper can go back to targetting uninsured yoofs.

Pete

[WeegieBlue]

Thanks for all your replies folks.

I've decided I'm just going to have to pay up. Even if I won, the cost of taking a day off work is loads higher than the benefit of the waived fine.

Still think a bit of discretion would have been a fairer outcome but hey, too late to moan now :(

[Biker Biggles]

Right decision from you.Wrong one from the copper as it has done no one any good and alienated you and large numbers of org readers from the polis and judicial system.

[timwilky]

I seem to recall a story of a few years ago where the driver of a roller was done for no reg plate.

He got away with it as he stated he was driving under trade plates. But it was unreasonable to risk damaging a prestigious vehicle attaching the plates so they were available to view inside the vehicle.

Could you not say you were using your local tame delaers plates?

My brother looks after a set for the local Ducati centre. Just so he can ride/drive anything he buys to deal.