Business insurance for vehicles?

[Paul the 6th]

Saw a guy get pulled on Police Interceptors a few weeks ago... he wasn't wearing his seatbelt when a bike cop spotted him, so was diverted to a nearby Vosa area where vosa were doing their thing and traffic cops were doing their checks/inspections/whatever.

This guy had a load of tools and a cooker in the back and told the bike cop he was on the way to his friends house to do a job as a favour.

Said cop then rang the 'friend' who it turned out was actually a 'customer'. The cop then gave the guy a massive telling off for not having business motor insurance and that he could get points and a fine etc. despite having regular normal car insurance.

The narrator mentioned that particular charge was dropped later on. I thought the whole thing was possibly a mistake on the bike cops part hence it being dropped......


Then last week I spoke to a guy I work with on events - he had to make some changes to a make shift bar, so took it to his workshop, did the work and was then on his way back to the event company to drop it off. Got pulled (apparently the traffic car followed him for 5 mins before stopping him, so wasn't speeding or doing anything to invite a pull) and apparently this same conversation about business motor insurance came up.

There are time where I might chuck 2 flight cases in the back of my mondeo to take from a job back to the company the kit has been hired from. In my eyes I am covered under the 'Commuting' part of my 'SDP inc. Commuting' cover, as I am driving to my place of work. But with these 2 cases in mind, do I need to look into proper business insurance?

Seems like another stupid bit of red tape if police are having to stop people and quiz them about what's in the car and whether it's for work purposes, and then whether the insurance is the correct type? Or am I missing the whole point?

[Spank86]

Technically travelling between two places of work is not commuting but if you were to mention to the police officer that you commuted home from one place of work (or to a friends house) before commuting back to your other place of work they'd have no way to prove otherwise.

[SvNewbie]

Yeah, similarly I only have my bike insured as SDP but very very occasionally it would be nice to take it into work (like when the bike is being serviced) even though this would take longer than walking. Given I go to work in everyday clothes without anything specific on me I guess it would be fairly easy to get away with it if stopped on the way (5 minute ride), but I doubt my insurance would be willing to pay out if anything happened to the bike while parked in the work carpark.

[Paul the 6th]

yeah it's a strange one, the first case I saw of it on the TV made me think the bike cop was trying to find anything else he could do the guy for since he was being rude and unapologetic etc... but then hearing of someone I know experiencing the same thing makes me wonder whether it's a new initiative or guidance or something?

Having said that, in both cases nothing has come of it since the TV guy had the charges against him dropped, and my colleague basically got a bolllocking and then sent on his way.

[Sir Trev]

Carting equipment about would also make it look like you were not just commuting. This in itself is a fine line - I carry a laptop and documents back and forth each day which is not likely to raise an eyebrow but something like boxes or other kit is bound to lead to queries.

I always add business use to my car insurance as it's a condition of getting a pathetic allowance instead of a company motor, but as a number cruncher it adds almost nothing to the premium. It's been added to Lady Poppy's car too, just in case she's asked to drop some files off in the long term storage unit her company uses (she is a secretary). It may load you more depending on your noted profession but it's worth having just in case.

[TamSV]

The narrator mentioned that particular charge was dropped later on.

I think that's often the case. The situation's not entirely black and white and can come down to interpretation of the precise wording of the policy - something that can't really be adequately done at the roadside.

Did the guy have insurance? Yes. Would it have paid claims to third parties in line with the requirements of the Road Traffic Act? Without a shadow of doubt. Was it actually valid? That's a possible contractual dispute between the policyholder and his insurer.

Some people might get a NIP for this and just choose to take the points of course.

There are time where I might chuck 2 flight cases in the back of my mondeo to take from a job back to the company the kit has been hired from. In my eyes I am covered under the 'Commuting' part of my 'SDP inc. Commuting' cover, as I am driving to my place of work. But with these 2 cases in mind, do I need to look into proper business insurance?

Is it your place of work though? What kind of work is it you do for the equipment hire place? :)

Check your policy, but "commuting" is generally to a single permanent place of work - if it covered any site where you happened to be working at any given time then no-one would need business use.

If you do work at a single site then a broker worth their salt could probably get around the equipment returning issue if it caused a problem - I'm pretty certain I would with a little case law quoting bamboozlement :).

I'd still go for business use if I were you because any argument still causes you hassle and it's important to note that most brokers aren't worth their salt. You may be direct with an insurance company in which case no-one is going to help you with that sort of issue anyway.

However, if you work at multiple sites then you're already outwith the terms of your policy.

[pookie]

I had to add business class 1 to my bike insurance because I travel to multiple sites and clients meetings. There are different classes when I went for a quote business class 1 was the lowest. . SD and commuting is to a regular place of work. Business class had personal business and employers business.

Suffice to say it added a wedge to the quote.

[Runako]

But with these 2 cases in mind, do I need to look into proper business insurance?

Seems like another stupid bit of red tape if police are having to stop people and quiz them about what's in the car and whether it's for work purposes, and then whether the insurance is the correct type? Or am I missing the whole point?

It actually isn't. The asnwer depends on your employer. In the other two examples, the gentlemen in the scenario's were self travelling in the course of their employement (insomuch as they were on work jobs).

If your employer requires you to have business insurance for carrying work equipment then you are required to have it. But this is primarily to cover somoeone else should there be an accident as your insurer will not pay out for an accident you have caused if its determined that the journey would be covered under 'business use'.

Most policies allow a modification for business use for a relatively small premium. But if you're a higher risk (self employed, high mileage etc) the premium can be a lot higher.

[Biker Biggles]

The dividing line for this should be if you are being paid something by your employer to drive yourself or some equipement around to various places.Thats not how insurance companies see it though so best be very careful.

[Runako]

Bloody hell! 6 replies in 10 minutes! Back to work loafers, lunch is over :D

[Littlepeahead]

I wonder how that affects me then. I am insured on the bike SDP and commuting, even though I very rarely ride to work. The occasional Sunday in the summer. But I do sometimes ride to cricket grounds close to home to photograph the match for work.

So I will be carrying photographic equipment, but the gear is all owned by me, not work. Also on my insurance I am an Administration Manager, which is true, I do not class myself as a photographer because I spend far more time doing admin than pressing the shutter and if I were to list my profession as photographer then I'm sure my policy would at least double.

I'm just as likely to be taking the camera to a match and doing photos for my own interest which I do on days off.

[TamSV]

If you're required to do it by your employer then it's business use. If you're doing it for your own interest, then it's SD&P.

The ownership of the equipment doesn't really make any difference.

[Paul the 6th]

If you're self employed and doing it for your interest in making a living then what? Also have public liability insurance for £5m and SDP& commuting. Suspect I need to look into business use come renewal next month

[robh539]

Dude as I understand it you are covered to commute to a single place as work (office) unless you have business insurance. My company insurance will cover me to drive all vehicles anytime (personal too) and my own car for a 100 mile only.

[Spank86]

Basically in the grey areas I'd be inclined to have your story straight if you speak to the police.

1. You were travelling to or from home and

2 you aren't being paid to travel. It's commuting in your own time OR if you don't have commuting in your policy you're going for a pleasure ride before work.

If you suffer damage in a works car park however you might have an issue, of course your insurers probably don't have records of your works address so simply classing it as a car park would be all the information they need (assuming of course you weren't thereto work, merely stopping off in the car park as its close to the shops etc...)

No lying now, that's naughty.

[Dicky Ticker]

Commuting insurance and business insurance are two different things, also carrying goods, be it tools or whatever on business insurance ups the premium.
Example Van insured for business use[Transporting of goods] and same van as a breakdown van carrying tools and spares is different.
We have business insurance, GIT insurance, Third party liability insurance and employee insurance on all our vehicles-----------and it is one of our biggest annual expenses, approx £3500 per vehicle.


VOSA checks are pretty stringent and can even involve the drivers NI number to ensure he is an employee and they do check classifications on insurance as the type of goods you are carrying make a difference---example being hazardous chemicals, gas bottles[welding gear ,propane or butane]
40 years in the game have taught me that is just not worth being underinsured to save a couple of hundred quid .You only need to be convicted once and when you do insure properly your premium will rocket and you will have the fine and points in addition.

Use a good reputable insurance broker,tell them what you want cover for and let them find the best cover for you.

[Littlepeahead]

How do they define commuting? Stu is a bricklayer foreman so he'll be at one site anything from a week to 6 months or more. Occasionally as one job finishes and another starts he'll do a day or two at each during a week. His employer doesn't pay any travel expenses. Both sites are his place of work. There must be lots of people whose work place is over a few different offices or factories.

[Dicky Ticker]

My house was the office and our contract vehicles can be in London,B/ham,Manchester Bristol,or Glasgow.In the car it was commuting to a place of work BUT not defined as a single entity so all are covered

[Dicky Ticker]

Simplifying things--------are you insured to carry pillions as normally you have to declare this on your insurance. I have declared that I tour/camp on my bike for pleasure and carry camping gear which is insured unspecified up to the value of £500.I think this little extra cost me £12 but at least I know my stuff is all insured. Its the little detailed declarations such as mods that up premiums but in most cases only by a few quid.

[pookie]

I had to have business class 1 as I went to multi site and took the bike to meetings which wasnt my main office. The question arises as to why I'm parked away from my main office should anything happen.As much as I am loathed to pay more for nothing it was better to declare.

[Mrs_giggles]

i do not use my car for work anymore(mainly ecause its expensive ) but when i did my work insisted on business insurance, because even when commuting between places of work you are still doing this as part of and on behalf of your work, the legal standpoint that is used is that if anything happened to you whilst commuting beteen places of work and you didnt have business insurance its can be brought back on them similary if you dont have business insurance on your vehicle and you crash they may not pay out.
also if you are carrying anyone other than youself it is definatly needed hth

[widepants]

A close friend of mine worked as a fitter for a large multinational company on an industrial estate.He had to pop 400m down the road to pick up a spare part and someone had already taken the small van used for such jobs.He just jumped in his car for the couple of minutes journey , but on the way he knocked a lad off his bike.
He had the book well and truely thrown at him , because he said he was off to pick up a part.If he has said he was on his way to the burger van ,then there would have been no problem.
A friend of mine who is a kitchen fitter , lost his estate car because he was running it on "non" buisness insurance.
He had to re insure it before he could get it back

[embee]

I'm self employed and run a small hatchback car.

My insurance is for SD&P and use for my business (note MY business). That covers carrying tools and equipment/materials used in the process of running my business, but very specifically does not cover the carriage of goods for hire or reward.

So I can buy some materials and take it to a place where I do some work for someone, but if they then ask me to take something else to someone else for them which might be deemed not to be part and parcel of me doing the particular job I'm contracted to do, then no.

However, if I do a contract for a piece of work which means achieving a certain outcome, and in order to do that it means that I need to take something away from the job to somewhere to have some machining done for example, then I'm OK because they're not paying me to carry the goods, they're paying me to provide finished product.

Subtle differences.

If in any doubt, admit nothing.

Remember of course that to carry waste away from a job you need a council permit, unless it's garden waste (I think..........). I don't carry waste, not ever never.

(Edit - the insurance is cheap, I am old but it is all singing and dancing insurance for about £170)

[timwilky]

In a previous occupation I have had thrown out a number of claims as it was obvious when I inspected damaged vehicles they were being used for business purposes.

Best one being the Ann Summers rep who still had all her party stock in the boot and didn't think to get it out before the vehicle got towed. The stock was sufficient to convince everyone she was using it for business purposes