Stirling Moss - what a muppet

[flymo]

Mr Moss, you sir are a ****.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/189912/1/stirling_moss_women_lack_mental_aptitude_for_f1.ht ml

To be fair, his views are reflective of his era which are long outdated.

[Dicky Ticker]

He has come out with some bizarre comments over the years,bit like the D-of-E. Perhaps he has trouble understanding that gender and innovation has moved forward since the 50s and 60s.

[L3nny]

Can't see a how women would have a problem in F1, it's not like they have to reverse park or anything.

[Spank86]

There are very few women in motor racing in general.

I know women who do it and do it very well but I'd have to somewhat agree with his view that for the majority of women it's no0t something they naturally excel at. Whether that's a brain or physiology thing or simply a lack of desire I don't know but the few women that have been in F1 haven't exactly excelled.

[Sir Trev]

Personally I will be watching the leader board during Moto3 races for the initials CAR, and giving a little cheer every time Anna gets another position. Nothing wrong with ladies in motor racing if they are competitive with the rest of the field.

[ChrisCurvyS]

There are very few women in motor racing in general.

I know women who do it and do it very well but I'd have to somewhat agree with his view that for the majority of women it's no0t something they naturally excel at. Whether that's a brain or physiology thing or simply a lack of desire I don't know but the few women that have been in F1 haven't exactly excelled.
Tis true - same with bike racing, eg Jenny Tinmouth.

It's not chauvanism - it has been proven that men and women's brains are wired up differently, and one gender tends to be better at some things, one tends to be better at others.

That's not to say there won't be exceptions to the rule though and if more girls were encouraged to get involved in motorsports at a grassroots level, you'd stand a better chance of discovering those with natural talent.

[slark01]

Susie Wolff F1 Williams test driver:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22120304

Ste.

[ChrisCurvyS]

Susie Wolff F1 Williams test driver:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22120304

Ste.
Yeah I saw the documentary about her over the weekend - nice girl, must've been ace growing up in that family (her parents met when her mum bought a motorbike from his showroom).

I know it's not funny as she was badly hurt but this was golddust for all the Stirling Moss types when it happened -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maria-de-villota-crash-driver-1132649

[_Stretchie_]

Can't see a how women would have a problem in F1, it's not like they have to reverse park or anything.

You stole me thunder :mad:

[Spank86]

5PYzaHDirXg

Not that that's motocross anyway.

[Lozzo]

Bit of a strange view for him to have, especially given his own sister was a top class rally driver who competed regularly in all the major rallying events of the 50s and 60s; her most notable win being the 1960 Liege-Rome-Liege rally in an Austin Healey 3000, an event that broke the spirit and cars of some reknowned male drivers of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Moss

[Lozzo]

If you want an example of a woman succeeding in the traditionally male world of motorsport, check out 19 year old Daytona winner Elena Myers. I've followed her career for about 4 years now and I'm convinced she's going to end up in WSB or hopefully MotoGP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlkaorF7znA

[Spank86]

Still, women are exceptionally rare at ALL levels of motorsport so there's at least a lack of desire among a lot of them.

[Littlepeahead]

Or a lack of sponsors prepared to back them. Same in most sports.

[ChrisCurvyS]

Or a lack of sponsors prepared to back them. Same in most sports.
Dunno about that-i think the novelty factor of a female rider/driver makes them more attractive to sponsors, than male rivals of the same caliber.

Either way, I think the claim that women can't compete in F1 due to them not having the muscle mass to cope with the g-forces involved is bs. With a bit of training the human body quickly adapts and while a female powerlifter will generally be beaten by a male counterpart, I'm sure most women will be able to build strong enough neck muscles to support their heads through the corners.

[Spank86]

Or a lack of sponsors prepared to back them. Same in most sports.

That's why I said ANY level. Including club and non (or very little/local) sponsored racing.

Wins get sponsors, wins and relentless self promotion.

[ClunkintheUK]

Dunno about that-i think the novelty factor of a female rider/driver makes them more attractive to sponsors, than male rivals of the same caliber.

Either way, I think the claim that women can't compete in F1 due to them not having the muscle mass to cope with the g-forces involved is bs. With a bit of training the human body quickly adapts and while a female powerlifter will generally be beaten by a male counterpart, I'm sure most women will be able to build strong enough neck muscles to support their heads through the corners.

I think you hit on the right word there Chris. Attractive. Unfortunately it seems likely that even the most talented female driver/rider is likely to be judged from a sponsorship perspective of how attractive she is. Sponsors don't sponsor based just on how fast someone is, but whether they will sell more as a result of sponsoring. How fast they are is just a factor they consider (because it gets their logo in photos when their rider wins.)

Male driver will still get the big break sponsorship irrespective of how fugly they are, and female driver would have to be much better then her male counterparts at that breakthrough stage to be considered irrespective of how she looks.

I am not condoning this in any way, nor agreeing with Moss. The most talented Downhill racer I've met was really fast, would come 4 or 5th nationally in the men's race, being beaten only by sponsored riders. She was as fast or very nearly as fast as Rachel Atherton, who races professionally, but was not quite as photogenic shall we say. She never got any sponsorship.

[Wideboy]

He's right, they should just stay doing what they're good at.

Making sandwiches

[SvNewbie]

Male driver will still get the big break sponsorship irrespective of how fugly they are, and female driver would have to be much better then her male counterparts at that breakthrough stage to be considered irrespective of how she looks.

I'm not the best judge of these things but I'm pretty sure the male contingent of F1 is hardly beset by munters. I suspect the current crop of sparkly eyed strong jawed individuals were picked as much for their suitability to selling hair and finance products as much as anything else.

[Littlepeahead]

Sadly it is true about the attractiveness and getting work in sport as a woman both competing and in front of the camera.

The IPL coverage at present features Isa Guha, former England women's cricketer. She knows her stuff and speaks well on air. But I think you'll agree, she ain't no fugly.

http://sportsvibe.co.uk/assets/110121807-22.jpeg

Other women cricketers don't get asked to go on air and I suspect it has nothing to do with their ability as a pundit or their commentary style, but more to do with not looking quite as glam.

Yet you regularly see Angus Fraser on screen and his dour expression isn't going to win any beauty contests (I can say that as we share office space and I have to look at that hangdog expression all day).

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/16/article-2309992-19532854000005DC-968_634x428.jpg

[Wideboy]

Or because predominantly more blokes watch sport than women?* so parading fit women about will increase viewers

*I don't know

[ClunkintheUK]

I'm not the best judge of these things but I'm pretty sure the male contingent of F1 is hardly beset by munters. I suspect the current crop of sparkly eyed strong jawed individuals were picked as much for their suitability to selling hair and finance products as much as anything else.

Two words: "Nigel Mansell".

You are probably right, but in advertising terms, "Alright" is fine for men on billboards not for women. I'd like to stress that I am only stating my opinion of what advertising execs' thought processes are before I am accused of sexism.

[Littlepeahead]

Sad news today about Maria De Villota, she had overcome such a lot after her accident and seemed to be rebuilding her life.

[flymo]

Indeed. Very difficult to understand peoples internal troubles. A great shame and a huge loss for her family.

[Bibio]

i say let them compete along side the males and see if they can. motorsport should not be gender categorised.

[Littlepeahead]

Her death is being reported as natural causes. Not sure if that means suicide, which isn't 'natural' or if she perhaps died as a result of her earlier injuries. Either way, a sad day for the sports and her husband and family. She was an inspiring lady.

[ClunkintheUK]

i say let them compete along side the males and see if they can. motorsport should not be gender categorised.

They can. There is nothing stating that women cannot compete in F1 and there have been I think 3 female F1 drivers. As Spank said, they didn't exactly excel. This is an arguement used by the Moss brigade, but I fear that they may have been picked solely for their looks, comparitively speaking F1 driver is still a damn good driver on any scale. This does perhaps make it harder for the really talented break through.

[Spank86]

Put simply the odds of ANYONE becoming an F1 driver are very slim even if they have the talent. A thousand things have to go right and a thousand people have to be in the right places at the right times. I think it's just that the number of women(girls) in those right places at an early age is so much smaller than the number of men(boys).

I firmly believe that if you haven't done something like that when you're at primary school age you'll NEVER be able to become the best, you need to get out and do it before you get the first inkling of fear.

Plus women are generally more sensible than men so they A: aren't interested in flashy toys and B: don't want to go out and try to get as close to death as possible on a weekly basis.


Of course I generalise but that's helpful in this instance because you need a lot of people interested to find a few that are good and then you whittle down even further to find the lucky ones who there is a place for.


That said Perhaps women should compete alongside men in all sports?


Her death is being reported as natural causes. Not sure if that means suicide, which isn't 'natural' or if she perhaps died as a result of her earlier injuries. Either way, a sad day for the sports and her husband and family. She was an inspiring lady.
Suspected heart attack.

Suicide would be considered non natural causes yes as would something like an overdose, odd that if your heart fails and kills you its natural but if your brain fails and kills you it isn't.

Sad either way.

[Bibio]

i suppose as well as the actual racing almost all motorsport is sponsored and as such i don't think the sponsors would want an ugly burd on the advertising.

[dkid]

Taken from sky sports news this morning

Maria de Villota died of injuries sustained during her crash in testing last year, doctors have told her family.

The 33-year-old was found dead in her hotel room in Seville on Friday a year after suffering a horrific accident whilst straight-line testing for Marussia.

In a statement released on Saturday, the family confirmed that her death was a consequence of the crash at the Duxford Aerodrome last July in which she sustained serious head injuries and lost the use of her right eye.

"Maria left us while she was sleeping, approximately at 6am, as a consequence of the neurological injuries that she suffered in July of 2012, according to what the forensic doctor has told us," the family statement read.